Gallagher Premiership - End of Season run-in (Play-Offs)

GeordieFalcon wrote:Its legal Sam that's all I'll agree with. I dont think youd be saying that of it was on the other foot.
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Undoubtedly but since when are people popular with the opposition when they play the wind up merchant? I think Ford would have preferred to have been chasing the TBP but knew that the delay was what he needed to do as captain.

And yet for blooming Genge we would have had a TBP

@geordie

He brushed passed him and flood took a dive

Ok mate...no probs. Like I said...I'm not a fan of flood now hes awful but Genge did hit him.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Ok mate...no probs. Like I said...I'm not a fan of flood now hes awful but Genge did hit him.

Correct to give the penalty, clear no arms contact, and the first of two incidents from Genge that could have lost us the game. Compared to Ah You, Ellis started the game so calmly. Sadly as it progresses one calmed down and the other seemed to get wound up.

nathan wrote:@geordie

He brushed passed him and flood took a dive

Don't buy that - clear penalty to me

GeordieFalcon wrote:Ok mate...no probs. Like I said...I'm not a fan of flood now hes awful but Genge did hit him.

I'm still undecided as to whether Genge is trying pull out and clips Flood on the way through or whether Genge was trying to be clever and just give Flood a nudge to keep the pressure in him. Either way he made a bit of contact and Flood made sure the ref knew, which he's entitled to do.

Less said about the block from the crossfield kick the better, that cost us a TBP.

Flood needs put out to the pastures now.

Connon in his 10 min cameo showed everything flood didnt.

Regardless of whether ringfencing happens or we are relegated...we need some new life . And maybe the coaches need assessed aswell.

The tactics are simply awful

Just out of interest Geordie do you have the same dislike of kickers taking the full 60/90 seconds at the end of the game to make sure the clock goes red? Because that's the same thing and happens regularly.

I didn't like it, but that's only because it showed a very negative mindset from Tigers. Most teams in that position would be looking to push on the the 4th try.

Nah not really Fuzzy. It's all time wasting. It's legal so it is what it is.

Look It had no bearing on the outcome of the game...and as Sam says Ford played it well as Captain for his team. He gave flood a lesson But I just didnt like that behaviour.

Gloucester-Bath is a good spectacle. Bath went out to a 0-17 lead but Gloucester managed to work a try in the last move of the half to make it 7-17. Little bit of spice in the game too.

Gloucester are ahead 27-23 now., with 9 minutes left. Bath only have to click once to win this but the momentum is with Gloucester right now.

Great result for Wuss - 5 points secured against Sale. Josh Adams hat-trick, Heem yellow card and Pennell butchered a try. Just a little summary should anyone be interested!

I had Warriors to win today but that result took me by surprise - massive boost for their hopes to stay up ...

Gloucester held on for the win. Cipriani named man of the match. I know some think Cipriani gets overpraised for his play, suggesting that others do the same without the fanfare. However, it really was a joy to see him operate. He gave a no-look pass for a try, and even the plays which didn't pan out showed he was constantly a threat.

Funnily enough, Burns didn't look too bad either, and had just steadied the Bath ship with an off-the-cuff drop goal, when he was subbed off for Priestland. It's too much to say Bath would have won if Burns had stayed on but he was playing well.

Rugby Fan wrote:Gloucester held on for the win. Cipriani named man of the match. I know some think Cipriani gets overpraised for his play, suggesting that others do the same without the fanfare. However, it really was a joy to see him operate. He gave a no-look pass for a try, and even the plays which didn't pan out showed he was constantly a threat.

Funnily enough, Burns didn't look too bad either, and had just steadied the Bath ship with an off-the-cuff drop goal, when he was subbed off for Priestland. It's too much to say Bath would have won if Burns had stayed on but he was playing well.

I agree. Burns was excellent. I have no idea why he was subbed. As a Glaws fan I was delighted to see Priestland come on.

The drop kick was such a sensible option. Why do so few players take the chance for three points when it is clear the attack is going nowhere?

Wuss win. Ah well bring on ring fencing

Thanks to Wuss for Josh Adams!

Sale are so inconsistent. On their day they'll give anyone a game but on a bad day it's 5 points for the opposition. Worcester are a physical side that are always up for a battle with some good finishers out wide but should have been beatable for Sale.

We are gutted to see Josh go Mikey, so I can’t say you’re welcome! He’s been fabulous for us and everyone wishes him the best as he moves on to bigger and better things.

I hope they do ring fence Geordie - the league is so competitive this year I don’t think anyone deserves to go down.

Theres lots of pros and cons stub.

From a selfish point of view, its difficult for a small club with a small budget in an area where football is a religion to compete all the time.

Ring fencing might mean we can rely on the academy more (players like electric wing Adam Radwan) in games as Dean doesnt seem to trust them at the  moment in the league.

I have my thoughts on this season...

I can see the pros and cons too but on balance I think the time has come to ring fence, at least for a while. Make the league a bit bigger and give clubs time to stabilise. I agree that using academy players will then be more attractive to clubs like ours on a budget - the Worcester academy produces great players and it sound like the Falcons do too.

Can't believe Quins threw that game away!! Saints were there for the taking and we managed to hand them the win.

We've really slipped in the past two months and Clermont are looking ominous, not that we were ever going to beat them, but a thrashing from them is hardly going to build up a bit of momentum for the Jeff run in. Top 4 is going to be a real battle now, we should hopefully manage top 7 but could easily end up in 7th place and if that's the case the players have themselves to blame.

Too many games lost through silly errors and even sillier penalties given away.

Gutted with the defeat but I'd say Tigers just about edged it. 30 mins of awful play at the start and much better kicking from Ford pretty much sealed it. You can see why both sides have struggled this season though, it wasn't pretty at times.

On the incidents, not much in any of them really. Not the best bit of sportsmanship from Ford, but I get it and would have no dramas if it was us doing it. Flood perhaps made a bit more of the Genge hit but it was penalty every day of the week, again, I'd not complain if it was us.

Poor Flood got hammered with the shoulder to the head though, possibly a card on another day.

I think that's pretty much sealed our fate anyway, as pretty much predicted. Bad time....a year to waste in the Championship now. Got to say though, this has probably been the most competitive Prem season for a long time.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Poor Flood got hammered with the shoulder to the head though, possibly a card on another day.

I was concerned when the replays were being shown because there's a clear shoulder/arm to the head. However, if the ref doesn't penalise Flood for being off his feet and trying to play the ball what do you do? Flood is so far off his feet having lost the clearout only the top of his shoulders and his head is over the body of the tackled player and he's got hands interrupting playing the ball. He knows what he's doing isn't legal, he's cynically slowing the ball down. He has to be cleared and he has made it that way.

You can get yellow carded while injured... its happened before!

Should have been a yellow each way

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Poor Flood got hammered with the shoulder to the head though, possibly a card on another day.

I was concerned when the replays were being shown because there's a clear shoulder/arm to the head. However, if the ref doesn't penalise Flood for being off his feet and trying to play the ball what do you do? Flood is so far off his feet having lost the clearout only the top of his shoulders and his head is over the body of the tackled player and he's got hands interrupting playing the ball. He knows what he's doing isn't legal, he's cynically slowing the ball down. He has to be cleared and he has made it that way.

That's not a reason to have shoulder to head contact though Sam. You can't illegally take somebody off the ball because they may or not be off their feet, it's not up to the player to police this. I've seen cards given for these things and a little surprised nothing was in this case, although they seemed to have a good look at it.

Well holy sh1t, I didn't see that coming. Bonus point away win at Exeter? Thank you very much! Brilliant performance - I'm not sure who that was playing number 8 for us today, he looked a bit like Nathan Hughes, but played on a different level.

The next few weeks just got very interesting, and the last game of the season for us (Wasps) against Harlequins could be a high stakes play-off play off.

4 Quins 50 Exet (A), Leic (H), Wasp (A)
5 Wasps 47 Sarr (H), Bath (A), Quin (H)
6 Saints 46 Newc (A), Worc (A), Exet (A)
7 Bath 45 Sale (A), Wasp (H), Leic (A)
8 Sale 44 Bath (H), Bris (A), Glos (H)

My predictions for the run in would be:

4 Quins 50 Exet (A) =lbp 1pt, Leic (H) =W 4pts, Wasp (A) =lbp 1pt = Total 56pts
5 Wasps 47 Sarr (H) =lbp 1pt, Bath (A) =lbp 1pt, Quin (H)= W 4pts = 53pts
6 Saints 46 Newc (A) =Tbpw 5pts, Worc (A)=W 4pts, Exet (A) =L 0pts = 55pts
7 Bath 45 Sale (A) =bpl 1pt, Wasp (H) =W 4pts, Leic (A) =bpl 1pt = 51pts
8 Sale 44 Bath (H) =W 4pts, Bris (A) =L 0, Glos (H) =Bpw 5pts = 53pts

So Quins to just stay in the top 4, but that is very reliant on us getting lbp's at Exeter (gulp) and Wasps (more likely but also gulp), and we absolutely must win our home game against Tigers. We've screwed ourselves over massively in the last few games and what should have been a fairly comfortable run in for fourth is now going to be a nail biter.

The game against Bath (A) for Wasps is massive, and a must win - in terms of top 6, and top 4 spots. If that one goes our way then it's all to play for on the last day:

4 Quins 50 Exet (A) =lbp 1pt, Leic (H) =W 4pts == 55 points
5 Wasps 47 Sarr (H) =lbp 1pt, Bath (A) =W 4pts == 52 points

That last day game becomes HUGE. So...

Yea a huge game that! We'll be battling it out for the honour of getting stuffed by Exeter in the knock outs.

Still that's assuming we beat Leicester, we could quite easily lose that game and hand Wasps fourth place atm.

We're really missing Marler and Marchant, and Care getting injured is not helping that either.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Poor Flood got hammered with the shoulder to the head though, possibly a card on another day.

I was concerned when the replays were being shown because there's a clear shoulder/arm to the head. However, if the ref doesn't penalise Flood for being off his feet and trying to play the ball what do you do? Flood is so far off his feet having lost the clearout only the top of his shoulders and his head is over the body of the tackled player and he's got hands interrupting playing the ball. He knows what he's doing isn't legal, he's cynically slowing the ball down. He has to be cleared and he has made it that way.

That's not a reason to have shoulder to head contact though Sam. You can't illegally take somebody off the ball because they may or not be off their feet, it's not up to the player to police this. I've seen cards given for these things and a little surprised nothing was in this case, although they seemed to have a good look at it.

It has to be policed but at the same time players need to look after themselves. Flood knows that he is nowhere near on his feet and that the way he's slowing down the ball is against the laws and that his only target for the players clearing out is his upper body. He is putting himself in that position.

If the ref doesn't blow then Flood slows the ball down to a point where Tigers can't use it and then and the attack goes nowhere. Tigers players can't come round the ruck and drag him out of the way for his own safety. They'd get pinged for coming in at the side.

The TMO will have reviewed it because there was a HIA and it's done as a routine thing. I presume it was viewed as a similar thing to a player dropping as a tackle comes in. Not intentional.

End result is thouigh Tigers are looking a hell of a lot safer than they were even if they are still relying on a handful of players to drag them out of mediocrity. Half their premiership tries this season have come from 4 players whove been off for half the games with England and injuries, and 10 of those came from May alone.
As much as it wouldve been nice to have kept Slater imagine how dire things would be without a player who can score from anywhere in the side at the crucial time. Tigers will of course have to cope for an extended period during and post world cup without these guys who look likely to get flogged through the warm ups and will need a rest upon there return. Either Cole or Genge (possibly both) gone too, the amount of new faces needed just to tread water as lower mid table nobodies is scary.
Although HC qualification is back within touching distance Id argue it would be better for Tigers if they didnt have to worry about that and the extra bodies needed to cope with getting smashed up by better sides. Getting a competitive premiership squad together has to be the first goal.

But much being made of the importance of the hit on Flood, but yes it couldve been carded. Im sure theres lots of actions that couldve been reffed differently in the game and across the season.

Top of the table looks even more sewn up except for the side that earns the right to get beaten by Exeter.

After the break its do or die time for Newcastle, if they win and results go their way then things could be wide open for them, but I rather fancy Worcester to nick a surprise result against Gloucester who may take their foot off the pedal a bit now. If Newcastle lose and those just above them win its all over. Winner of Tigers Bristol will feel pretty safe.
Quins have a tough away fixture to Exeter and could end up down as far as 6th place if other results go against them, it does seem to me that the bbig battle is for the right to get embaressed in the semis and get in the HC qualification spots.
One of the dullest premiership run ins we've had really.

It's pretty exciting if you're in the run-in. And with all knock out games there's always a chance on the day

yappysnap wrote:It's pretty exciting if you're in the run-in. And with all knock out games there's always a chance on the day

I agree with this. Also, Wasps have gone from being on the borderlines of the relegation conversation to the borderlines of the play-off conversation in one week. If you consider a roller-coaster like that to be boring...

Also, I think that on any given day, anyone is pretty much capable of beating anyone. Exeter aren't invincible - Wasps showed that at the weekend. The play-off system has its flaws - consistent excellence throughout the season can be overthrown in a wet and windy one-off - but that uncertainty makes it compelling viewing. Always a chance on the day

I don't think its exciting at all...Id much prefer mid table safety boring...with nothing to play for thank you.

GeordieFalcon wrote:I don't think its exciting at all...Id much prefer mid table safety boring...with nothing to play for thank you.

Familiarity breeds contempt I guess
Jokes aside though the Newcastle fans do seem much more resigned to relegation this season even before last weekends result despite having had that good run of results and showing they can win games after all.

At the top though theres only one playoff spot that realisticaly being compeeted for, and its pretty early in the sseason to have reached that point. There is of course the Euro cup spots too, but people dont really seem to hype on that much (Oh for that low key mid table mediocrity!). I agree its a very tight race noiw for that 4th spot, but really those teams are so far off the pace this year. Exeter and Saracens are miles ahea dof the comeptition, even more so when they have their full compliment of internationals. Given them hoime advantage as well, plus the bonus of having had a soft run in of meaningless (to them) games and its really hard to see how those grasping for an extra day out currently can win even "on their day". Its often been the case that theres one or two stand out teams who run away at the top of the table, but this year the gulf seems bigger than ever. Gloucester arent even that strong a side, yet well ahead of the pack.

Its still good for maintaing a level of meaningfulness and competitiveness across the table to have the palyoffs and something for the average teams to strive for at this stage, but I just dont feel its as a big a deal as it usually is. If Newcastle loose in the next round they are all but down, and it doesnt leaves less than usual across the board for teams to play for and fans to pin emotions on.

Gooseberry wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:I don't think its exciting at all...Id much prefer mid table safety boring...with nothing to play for thank you.

Familiarity breeds contempt I guess
Jokes aside though the Newcastle fans do seem much more resigned to relegation this season even before last weekends result despite having had that good run of results and showing they can win games after all.

At the top though theres only one playoff spot that realisticaly being compeeted for, and its pretty early in the sseason to have reached that point. There is of course the Euro cup spots too, but people dont really seem to hype on that much (Oh for that low key mid table mediocrity!). I agree its a very tight race noiw for that 4th spot, but really those teams are so far off the pace this year. Exeter and Saracens are miles ahea dof the comeptition, even more so when they have their full compliment of internationals. Given them hoime advantage as well, plus the bonus of having had a soft run in of meaningless (to them) games and its really hard to see how those grasping for an extra day out currently can win even "on their day". Its often been the case that theres one or two stand out teams who run away at the top of the table, but this year the gulf seems bigger than ever. Gloucester arent even that strong a side, yet well ahead of the pack.

Its still good for maintaing a level of meaningfulness and competitiveness across the table to have the palyoffs and something for the average teams to strive for at this stage, but I just dont feel its as a big a deal as it usually is. If Newcastle loose in the next round they are all but down, and it doesnt leaves less than usual across the board for teams to play for and fans to pin emotions on.

That's because we have generally been woeful all season...doesn't give you much hope.

Okay, gearing up again after the Euro-break. Here's this round:

Falcons v Saints (Fri)
Sale v Bath (Fri)
Exeter v Quins
Tigers v Bristol
Wasps v Saracens
Worcester v Glaws (Sun)

If Newcastle want to have any hope of survival then they need to spank Saints and hope that Gloucester turn Worcester over on Sunday. With Worcester being at home you have to think they might offer something, given that they are also fighting for next season. I fancy Falcons to get the win, but they need the TBP too. Saints seem to win by lots or lose by lots, so...

Sale against Bath is big in the context of top 6 places, especially if Newcastle do manage to get the big win against Saints. Sale at home, I'd fancy them to win that one.

Tigers v Bristol is one both sides could do with winning to consolidate their position above the relegation scrap. Surely too late for either side to get drawn down into it now, you have to think it comes down to Falcons or Warriors, but until it's mathematically safe then it's all to play for.

As a Wasps fan I've got one eye firmly on Sandy Park, hoping Exeter feel they have a point to prove after we beat them down there, and bounce back and put a score on Quins (hopefully denying them a LBP too), and aiding our own top 4 aspirations.

Wasps at home to Sarries... well, we're at home With Saracens secure in second I guess you have to wonder what side they'll put out - although Dai Young has gone on record as saying we want to be playing their strongest side (but he would say that, wouldn't he?). Anything we can get from this game is a bonus, especially if Exeter put a score on Quins.

Predictions:

Falcons v Saints (Fri) - Falcons (TBP)
Sale v Bath (Fri) - Sale (TBP) / Bath (LBP)
Exeter v Quins - Exeter (TBP)
Tigers v Bristol - Tigers
Wasps v Saracens - Saracens / Wasps (LBP)
Worcester v Glaws (Sun) - Glaws

Newcastle: 

Hammersley, Goneva, Harris, Matavesi, Sinoti, Flood, Takulua, Mulipola, McGuigan, Ah You, Green, Davidson, Chick, Wilson, Nagusa.

Replacements: Cooper, Lockwood, Davison, Robinson, Graham, Young, Swiel, Williams.


Northampton: 

Tuala, Collins, Hutchinson, Burrell, Naiyaravoro, Biggar, Reinach, van Wyk, Marshall, Hill, Ratuniyarawa, Lawes, Gibson, Wood, Harrison.

Replacements: Ma'asi, Waller, Franks, Coles, Onojaife, Mitchell, Grayson, Kellaway.

Sale: 

L James, Solomona, S James, O'Connor, Ashton, MacGinty, De Klerk; Harrison, Webber, John, Beaumont, Phillips, B Curry, T Curry, Ross.

Replacements: Langdon, Moroz, Jones, Postlethwaite, Strauss, Cliff, Redpath, Reed.



Bath: 

Watson, Cokanasiga, Joseph, Roberts, McConnochie, Burns, Fotuali'i, Obano, Dunn, Lahiff, Attwood, Ewels, Ellis, Underhill, Mercer.

Replacements: Walker, van Rooyen, Perenise, Douglas, Stooke, Chudley, Priestland, Rokoduguni.

As a Quins fan a lbp at Exeter and Wasps getting nothing from Sarries would be perfect!!

Could be a tough ask for Quins though, although if we play like we did against Clermont then I think we could manage to stay close. We are just too error prone to get a win though, you can almost bet on stupid pens under pressure or silly dropped passes at key times undermining us. Or, you know, kicking the ball to the opposition with moments left to go then letting them score coughSaintscough.

Tom Curry vs Underhill
Ashton vs Cokanasiga

That's a couple of interesting head-to-heads in the scheme of England's World Cup build up.

Can't see Ashton being in or around the team anymore. CurryvUnderhill should be interesting though.

Telusa Veainu and Sione Kalamafoni return to the Leicester Tigers squad as recent arrival Clayton Blommetjies makes his club debut in the home game against Bristol Bears this Saturday.

Former South Africa Sevens player Blommetjies starts at full-back as Matt Toomua partners Matt Smith at centre in the Tigers team for the Gallagher Premiership Round 20 contest at Welford Road (3.00pm).
In the pack, Australia international Tatafu Polota-Nau joins England duo Ellis Genge and Dan Cole in the front row as Kalamafoni returns at No8 following suspension and Guy Thompson moves across to openside flanker.
Veainu, who came through a run-out in the Premiership Shield with the Tigers Development XV last weekend on his return from a foot injury, is named among the replacements.
Looking ahead to Saturday’s game, head coach Geordan Murphy said: “We had to dig in to get the win at Newcastle last time out and this will be another tough battle. We lost Manu Tuilagi to a hamstring injury at Newcastle but it’s good to get other guys back and for them to have an opportunity this weekend.”



Leicester Tigers (v Bristol Bears, Welford Road, Saturday 3.00pm)

15 Clayton Blommetjies
14 Jonny May
13 Matt Smith
12 Matt Toomua
11 Jordan Olowofela
10 George Ford (c)
9 Sam Harrison
1 Ellis Genge
2 Tatafu Polota-Nau
3 Dan Cole
4 Will Spencer
5 Graham Kitchener
6 Mike Fitzgerald
7 Guy Thompson
8 Sione Kalamafoni

 
Replacements
16 Jake Kerr
17 Facundo Gigena
18 Joe Heyes
19 Harry Wells
20 Mike Williams
21 Ben White
22 Sam Aspland-Robinson
23 Telusa Veainu

Shame Manu's hamstring is not ok, good to see TV available, awful to see Fitz at 6

LondonTiger wrote:

Telusa Veainu and Sione Kalamafoni return to the Leicester Tigers squad as recent arrival Clayton Blommetjies makes his club debut in the home game against Bristol Bears this Saturday.

Former South Africa Sevens player Blommetjies starts at full-back as Matt Toomua partners Matt Smith at centre in the Tigers team for the Gallagher Premiership Round 20 contest at Welford Road (3.00pm).
In the pack, Australia international Tatafu Polota-Nau joins England duo Ellis Genge and Dan Cole in the front row as Kalamafoni returns at No8 following suspension and Guy Thompson moves across to openside flanker.
Veainu, who came through a run-out in the Premiership Shield with the Tigers Development XV last weekend on his return from a foot injury, is named among the replacements.
Looking ahead to Saturday’s game, head coach Geordan Murphy said: “We had to dig in to get the win at Newcastle last time out and this will be another tough battle. We lost Manu Tuilagi to a hamstring injury at Newcastle but it’s good to get other guys back and for them to have an opportunity this weekend.”



Leicester Tigers (v Bristol Bears, Welford Road, Saturday 3.00pm)

15 Clayton Blommetjies
14 Jonny May
13 Matt Smith
12 Matt Toomua
11 Jordan Olowofela
10 George Ford (c)
9 Sam Harrison
1 Ellis Genge
2 Tatafu Polota-Nau
3 Dan Cole
4 Will Spencer
5 Graham Kitchener
6 Mike Fitzgerald
7 Guy Thompson
8 Sione Kalamafoni

 
Replacements
16 Jake Kerr
17 Facundo Gigena
18 Joe Heyes
19 Harry Wells
20 Mike Williams
21 Ben White
22 Sam Aspland-Robinson
23 Telusa Veainu

Shame Manu's hamstring is not ok, good to see TV available, awful to see Fitz at 6

Fitz has been playing better than Williams, not that, that is much if an achievement. What annoys me is that BOC could have been on the bench instead of Williams and the bench would have been considerably better. As it stands if Thompson gets injured out back five is effectively 5 locks and will be eaten alive by Bristol. Ideally BOC and Thompson would be at 6 and 7 but that's not our style at the moment.

Agree that Tigers bench is asking for trouble at the breakdown if Thompson gets injured. I'd much prefer O'Connor or Reffell.

Hardwick would balance the bench in the backs better as well. Sam Aspland-Robinson said in a recent interview that he favours playing 13 so it will be interesting to see how he covers centre though.

Kalamafoni and Veainu are big boosts for a vital game.