Silly Season Transfer Rumours 19/20

First topic message reminder :

Not a great position for Saints, captain and international level hooker looks likely so they've resorted to signing what is at best squad filler. Presumably Haywood and Fish will carry the bulk of the playing time.

Rumour mill circulating again, with JM targeting players in the English premiership (again). Rumour is Alex Dombrandt to Cardiff is a done deal, always thought it was going to be Sam Moore.

Arhip and Evans sign new deals with Blues and Scarlets.

mikey_dragon wrote:Rumour mill circulating again, with JM targeting players in the English premiership (again). Rumour is Alex Dombrandt to Cardiff is a done deal, always thought it was going to be Sam Moore.

Arhip and Evans sign new deals with Blues and Scarlets.

Interesting, given the article below

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/51132941

Yes, very!

formerly known as Sam wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

king_carlos wrote:Nick Auterac to Saints reported by BBC.

If Auterac can stay fit then there's still a very good player in there. He will be at best 3rd choice behind the elder Waller brother and Francois van Wyk. That's if the elder Franks brother is playing tighthead more with Paul Hill rumoured leaving.

Dissapointing whats happened to him. Where is he going. Maybe a club with a real good scrum coach could revitalise him.

He badly needs that. Saints really have sidelined him for a while. Unless he gets out there and finds a club desperate to have him and that suits his style of rugby he's wasting his career. Bristol or Quins would be good options for a mobile tighthead but neither have notable scrum coaches though Afoa might be a handy short term mentor at Bristol.

Bath have just recruited two tightheads otherwise he would have been good there working under Hatley. Stankovitch at Tigers is probably the best scrum coach in the league but options at tighthead are pretty good here. Cole hasn't got that many years left though and we are getting rid of Cortes in the summer. So might be a goer though there's no guarantee of game time and we have young Joe Heyes doing a good job.

Genge, Cole, Bateman, Leatigaga, Gigena and Heyes. Back up by Dimen, Lines, Whitecombe and Hardwick. I'm happy with that for next season. We have some great prop prospects coming through so I hope we save money for elsewhere in the squad.

Injury dispensation props can usually be picked up if required as well. Christian Judge from the Championship for instance. Tigers had Michele Rizzo and Matias Aguero join as injury dispensation and settle in quickly.

I know I'm simplifying things but if a prop can scrummage usually they slot in quickly. Inside backs need time to learn moves, second rows and hookers the line-out calls, flankers are usually expected to run the defensive line around the fringes now. Whilst props do a lot more around the park these days if they can scrummage you can realistically tell them to slot into the line-out as back pillar, tackle whoever runs at them in defense and hit as many rucks as possible in attack.

They won't be acting as a playmaker in attack like Mako or Sinckler can but few props do that anyway!

That is very true Carlos. Unless we are losing one I suppose we just won't need Hill. I think Hardwick Jnr has left the development squad though. Not idea why or where he's gone but he doesn't appear on the website and I can't recall him being in any of the development squads.

formerly known as Sam wrote:That is very true Carlos. Unless we are losing one I suppose we just won't need Hill. I think Hardwick Jnr has left the development squad though. Not idea why or where he's gone but he doesn't appear on the website and I can't recall him being in any of the development squads.

Robin Hardwick is still at school (Rugby) but listed as with us in the England U18s announcement.

https://www.englandrugby.com/news/article/england-men-u18s-squad-for-october-development-camp

Responded to Tigers stuff on the Tigers thread to try to avoid derailing the transfer rumours thread!

Quins just announced Andre Esterhuizen.

Cracking signing for them.

Rinsure wrote:Quins just announced Andre Esterhuizen.

Cracking signing for them.

Isn’t that the big centre that played for the baa-baa’s? He looked petty good.

Excellent work by Gustard and Quins. Esterhuizen at 12 with Smith and Marchant either side will be a potent partnership.

I'm guessing Quins are losing one or more of Campagnaro, Saili or Tapuai?

Shame, as we kind of need centres now! Looks good for next season though.

Maybe the injuries to Campagnaro/Saili or Tapuai are more serious than we have been told!
Out of the 3 listed, Tapuai will be the hardest felt. The other 2 have played very little due to injury.

Rinsure wrote:Quins just announced Andre Esterhuizen.

Cracking signing for them.

Rumours are an expensive signing though. It'll be interesting to see who he is replacing at the end of the season. At a guess Saili and Tapaui could be up for the chop having been high profile names that have struggled with injury.

For a club that is struggling to afford a key asset like Sinckler signing a big name centre is a surprise but if they were going to spend a significant amount on an inside centre he is the right age and the type of unit you'd want next to Smith at 10.

It could be for Campagnaro. The poor lad's had no luck with injuries and hasn't really strung a set of games together. Isn't this is second or third knee injury too? Part of me fears that we could be looking at an early retirement.

Considering the current injury crisis in the midfield at Quins - you would question any reduction in the total headcount for any players in that position.

In fact, considering the number of 1st team players out of action - Perhaps we need to start questioning the medical team at Quins.

Following the footsteps of a former Scottish scrum half legend (I’ll have you guess the name), Gregg Laidlaw will join USAP (currently in prod2).

Sam Costelow to Scarlets is sounding like a done deal. I could see him starting for them a lot next season if the rumours are true. Patchell has struggled with injury and whilst I rate Dan Jones I think Costelow will leapfrog him swiftly. No slight on Jones I just rate Costelow very highly.

Dan Thomas is in talks with Scarlets and Dragons as well apparently. Another very good player.

It seems Pivac and the WRU are sending a strong message that they want Wales players to be playing at the regions.

Yeah Dragons don’t need another No.7 really. We have three, two are internationals and the other will probably join them some day. I don’t think he’s needed at scarlets either. McCleod is their front-runner on the open-side now, with Davies to return and U20 Morgan. Dan Davis did well at 7 for them last season too. I thought Thomas formed part of a strong back-row at Bristol, adding some needed balance. Bristol don’t want to be paying 500k for Tips surely, when they can spend it on a front 5 player and just keep Thomas who is available all year.

Costelow could leapfrog AOB and Thomas, can’t see him overtaking Patchell any time soon though. Scarlets really need Patch back for Toulon away.

Not gonna lie I hope costelow makes no progress at Scarlets.

whocares wrote:Following the footsteps of a former Scottish scrum half legend (I’ll have you guess the name), Gregg Laidlaw will join USAP (currently in prod2).

Chris Cusiter

mikey_dragon wrote:Costelow could leapfrog AOB and Thomas, can’t see him overtaking Patchell any time soon though. Scarlets really need Patch back for Toulon away.

The lad looks like he's going to be a class act. Inside two seasons he'll be the starting 10 for Scarlets. He kicks well, defends very well considering his size and in attack he's reminiscent of Ford playing flat and finding holes to put players through. Jonathan Davies would be the ideal 13 to be outside of him cutting angles.

Having said that it does annoy me Tigers have put together a good development plan for him where he's being slowly introduced and brought on in a sensible fashion. Costelow is thanking us for our time and efforts by leaving when he starts to be coming towards the point of being actual use. I'd like to see a little loyalty, it would sit better if he was leaving at 21/22 because he was playing incredibly well and being held up by Ford and so left to go back and play first team rugby to claim the Wales 10 shirt (which he has every possibility of wearing in the future).

He probably isn’t needed in Wales for another season or two either. One of Anscombe, Biggar, Patchell, or Owen Williams need to bow out so he has a realistic shot. Evans and Patchell will probably be the front-runners for the jersey, though I can envision Patchell being shifted elsewhere (12 or 15). Nice to have some depth there again, and we thank English clubs for their part in that.

Owen Williams needs to find some consistent form, he didn't have the best game against Bristol yesterday. Be interesting to see what he does at the end of the season because you can't see Scarlets bringing in both him and Costelow. Doubt the Dragons can afford him so probably Cardiff?

Anscombe and Biggar are 28 and 30 respectively so are going to struggle to be around for the whole of the next RWC cycle. Anscombe's injury was a nasty one as well, he might not be the same player when he comes back.

Given the Scarlets centres of choice are 31 and 32 developing Patchell as a 12 would make sense, particularly if they want to play wide to the flying wingers.

I often felt that Williams was better suited to 12. He's a big bloke who throws his weight around in defence and he's got a siege gun of a right boot but often struggled as playmaker. He was unlikely to get those opportunities at Gloucester though with Twelvetrees covering the kicking and second playmaker role, Mark Atkinson an underrated 12 who does the nuts and bolts stuff very well.

Leaving Tigers he was 25-years old and had room for improvement. Not starting frequently at Gloucester has hit that potential hard though. He will be 28-years old by the end of the season which should be approaching his best years.

True a playmaker of his size should be all things to all strategies at 12. He's not the most powerful ball carrier though he hasn't ever really played a consistent number of games in that position so he could well grow into it. Apparently Mauger talked him up as a potential international 12 McAllister style to Gatland when he asked so those in the know clearly though he could do the job. I'm sure someone in Wales will give him that chance, the Ospreys at 12 or Blues at 10?

Various rumours about Saracens players:

Ben Earl - Northampton
Alex Lozowski - Bath & Wasps
George Kruis - Japan (but also rumours around La Rochelle, Sale & Nothampton)
Duncan Taylor - Edinburgh
Max Malins - Exeter
Ben Spencer - Bath, Bristol, Exeter, Newcastle
Joel Kpoku - Northampton
Richard Wigglesworth - Retirement/Ealing
Vincent Koch - Sale, Bulls
Matt Gallagher - Munster
Billy V - Lyon, Leicester
Owen Farrell - Lyon
Maro Itoje - Lyon

LondonTiger wrote:
Duncan Taylor - Edinburgh

I’d be quite surprised if this was true, we’ve got centres coming out our ears at the moment!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/51262749

Sinckler confirmed to Bristol.

Joe Schmidt being linked to bath

I wonder if we could take Paul Hill and see if Dean can turn him around. We're in desperate need of a Tight head and Logo is rumoured top be off aswell.. and JOn Welsh hasnt played for well over a year.

Wheres Dom Barrow these days?

Managing director for a business

has he quite rugby?

Yes

Ah i didnt hear anything about it. Was it enforced through injury?

formerly known as Sam wrote:Owen Williams needs to find some consistent form, he didn't have the best game against Bristol yesterday. Be interesting to see what he does at the end of the season because you can't see Scarlets bringing in both him and Costelow. Doubt the Dragons can afford him so probably Cardiff?

Anscombe and Biggar are 28 and 30 respectively so are going to struggle to be around for the whole of the next RWC cycle. Anscombe's injury was a nasty one as well, he might not be the same player when he comes back.

Given the Scarlets centres of choice are 31 and 32 developing Patchell as a 12 would make sense, particularly if they want to play wide to the flying wingers.

Apparently we’ll have more cash than Cardiff next season, we supposedly have more this season. Owen Williams will be told his worth and will likely take a pay cut - unless he ditches his Wales ambitions and goes to another English or French club. Based on his time at Glaws surely nobody will be offering 350K. I’ll be honest though we desperately need a good 10/12 player at Dragons. Regarding the back-row we could do with a NWQ player at No.8, or perhaps Faletau if he wants to come home. It seems Cardiff are trying to buy up all the available welsh internationals and they still have backers who could help them do it. 

I thought Costelow might struggle because of his size but we’ll see. I’m not sure how much game time he’ll even get at Scarlets either. Patchell has also played 15 whilst Dan Jones started at 10. Usually the problem with putting a fly-half at 12 is that they’re too small, so Patchell also has the advantage of not being small I guess. Funny thing is that Cardiff we’re shifting him around their backline when he came through as a promising 19 yo, and they were convinced his future position was 12. He moved on to focus on the sacred 10 jersey though, so it’ll be interesting to see what happens next.

LondonTiger wrote:Various rumours about Saracens players:

Ben Earl - Northampton
Alex Lozowski - Bath & Wasps
George Kruis - Japan (but also rumours around La Rochelle, Sale & Nothampton)
Duncan Taylor - Edinburgh
Max Malins - Exeter
Ben Spencer - Bath, Bristol, Exeter, Newcastle
Joel Kpoku - Northampton
Richard Wigglesworth - Retirement/Ealing
Vincent Koch - Sale, Bulls
Matt Gallagher - Munster
Billy V - Lyon, Leicester
Owen Farrell - Lyon
Maro Itoje - Lyon

Sinkler has signed for Bristol

GeordieFalcon wrote:Ah i didnt hear anything about it. Was it enforced through injury?

I presume he ran out of opportunities at big clubs. He certainly had enough injury problems. If he didn't need to keep putting his body through professional rugby to earn a living maybe he decided not to.

Sinkler to Bris according to the Beeb

mikey_dragon wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:Owen Williams needs to find some consistent form, he didn't have the best game against Bristol yesterday. Be interesting to see what he does at the end of the season because you can't see Scarlets bringing in both him and Costelow. Doubt the Dragons can afford him so probably Cardiff?

Anscombe and Biggar are 28 and 30 respectively so are going to struggle to be around for the whole of the next RWC cycle. Anscombe's injury was a nasty one as well, he might not be the same player when he comes back.

Given the Scarlets centres of choice are 31 and 32 developing Patchell as a 12 would make sense, particularly if they want to play wide to the flying wingers.

Apparently we’ll have more cash than Cardiff next season, we supposedly have more this season. Owen Williams will be told his worth and will likely take a pay cut - unless he ditches his Wales ambitions and goes to another English or French club. Based on his time at Glaws surely nobody will be offering 350K. I’ll be honest though we desperately need a good 10/12 player at Dragons. Regarding the back-row we could do with a NWQ player at No.8, or perhaps Faletau if he wants to come home. It seems Cardiff are trying to buy up all the available welsh internationals and they still have backers who could help them do it. 

I thought Costelow might struggle because of his size but we’ll see. I’m not sure how much game time he’ll even get at Scarlets either. Patchell has also played 15 whilst Dan Jones started at 10. Usually the problem with putting a fly-half at 12 is that they’re too small, so Patchell also has the advantage of not being small I guess. Funny thing is that Cardiff we’re shifting him around their backline when he came through as a promising 19 yo, and they were convinced his future position was 12. He moved on to focus on the sacred 10 jersey though, so it’ll be interesting to see what happens next.

Owen Williams will be taking a pay cut wherever he heads next. I imagine it'll be more palatable to do that whilst going for a Wales shirt then it would otherwise.

Dragons have the issue that they are perceived to be a fairly weak team. They have developed fairly well in recent years and you'd hope the extra cash they have now will help them keep their best and brightest and start to build something. If you're a 10 though you are looking at what platform you're going to get, no playmaker wants to be on the back foot. If the Dragons ginger a couple of hulking South Africans to reinforce what they have up front then someone like Williams will be far more tempted.

To be fair to Costelow he hits above his weight, the try saver away at Cardiff in the European game was a match winner. You don't see many flyhalfs making those. He had a run out when covering for injury at Ampthill in the Championship earlier in the season and got quite the write up from there press team, I think they lost narrowly in a high scoring game and in the 4 or 5 tries Ampthill scored Costelow had a hand in all bar one. From memory they lost the game because they couldn't stop the opposition rolling maul.

A lot of aspiring 10s end up settling for positions outside of the hallowed 10 shirt. Alex Goode made 15 his own, Geordie Murphy became a back three player etc. Maybe it's time for Patchell to face that fact, maybe Owen Williams too.

Kruis to Japan or France would be a loss, whilst England have plenty of locks hes still young enough to be at the next world cup if he doesnt rule himself out for a pension fund.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Ah i didnt hear anything about it. Was it enforced through injury?

I presume he ran out of opportunities at big clubs. He certainly had enough injury problems. If he didn't need to keep putting his body through professional rugby to earn a living maybe he decided not to.

Very true. Shame...i dont think he ever really fulfilled his potential due to said injuries.

Gooseberry wrote:Kruis to Japan or France would be a loss, whilst England have plenty of locks hes still young enough to be at the next world cup if he doesnt rule himself out for a pension fund.

Could they not engage the "exceptional circumstances" claus for him.

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:Kruis to Japan or France would be a loss, whilst England have plenty of locks hes still young enough to be at the next world cup if he doesnt rule himself out for a pension fund.

Could they not engage the "exceptional circumstances" claus for him.

Not when youve got 6 locks in the squad and people are moaning Isekwe should be in .... 
Ultimately its so ill defined it means if the coach wants to they can, but Jones hasnt shown any inclination to do that. And it would be one things if hes France based, but Japan would be utterly impractical. Essentially he'd be retiring himself from tests. Hes also going to command a higher wage on that basis, and since the only real motivation to move his family half way round the world would be the cash....
Ultimately it would likely be a bigger loss for the player than it would England given its a resource strong position for them but i still think it would be a big shame and set a worrying precedent to see a core member of the test squad take the money and run before their sell by date.

We’ve improved up front Sam. Harris and Brown are usually dominant in the scrum although Harris is old now and we don’t have a  ready replacement; whilst our lineout drive is a more potent weapon. We’re not at Leinster's level yet but I’m also hoping for some more signings up front - hopefully South Africans so that we can be consistent. As far as 10’s go it appears Sam Davies has settled in well and looks like he is enjoying rugby again - I still wouldn’t class him as international standard though. Maybe Owen Williams isn’t either, and his selection is more of a hint to get back to a team in Wales. I would still class Owen as better than what we have in the midfield right now though, they seem to be struggling (Warren the exception).

Gooseberry wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:Kruis to Japan or France would be a loss, whilst England have plenty of locks hes still young enough to be at the next world cup if he doesnt rule himself out for a pension fund.

Could they not engage the "exceptional circumstances" claus for him.

Not when youve got 6 locks in the squad and people are moaning Isekwe should be in .... 
Ultimately its so ill defined it means if the coach wants to they can, but Jones hasnt shown any inclination to do that. And it would be one things if hes France based, but Japan would be utterly impractical. Essentially he'd be retiring himself from tests. Hes also going to command a higher wage on that basis, and since the only real motivation to move his family half way round the world would be the cash....
Ultimately it would likely be a bigger loss for the player than it would England given its a resource strong position for them but i still think it would be a big shame and set a worrying precedent to see a core member of the test squad take the money and run before their sell by date.

So Jones will simply repalce him with Isiekwe or kopoku?

Gooseberry wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:Kruis to Japan or France would be a loss, whilst England have plenty of locks hes still young enough to be at the next world cup if he doesnt rule himself out for a pension fund.

Could they not engage the "exceptional circumstances" claus for him.

Not when youve got 6 locks in the squad and people are moaning Isekwe should be in .... 
Ultimately its so ill defined it means if the coach wants to they can, but Jones hasnt shown any inclination to do that. And it would be one things if hes France based, but Japan would be utterly impractical. Essentially he'd be retiring himself from tests. Hes also going to command a higher wage on that basis, and since the only real motivation to move his family half way round the world would be the cash....
Ultimately it would likely be a bigger loss for the player than it would England given its a resource strong position for them but i still think it would be a big shame and set a worrying precedent to see a core member of the test squad take the money and run before their sell by date.

He'll be 30 next month. Maybe he's looking at it as extending his career. Do two years in Japan with an easier seasons on the body and then return to either the UK or France for two or three more years. Japan is also a good springboard for taking a contract down in Australia ala Parling of that's what he wants to do.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:Kruis to Japan or France would be a loss, whilst England have plenty of locks hes still young enough to be at the next world cup if he doesnt rule himself out for a pension fund.

Could they not engage the "exceptional circumstances" claus for him.

Not when youve got 6 locks in the squad and people are moaning Isekwe should be in .... 
Ultimately its so ill defined it means if the coach wants to they can, but Jones hasnt shown any inclination to do that. And it would be one things if hes France based, but Japan would be utterly impractical. Essentially he'd be retiring himself from tests. Hes also going to command a higher wage on that basis, and since the only real motivation to move his family half way round the world would be the cash....
Ultimately it would likely be a bigger loss for the player than it would England given its a resource strong position for them but i still think it would be a big shame and set a worrying precedent to see a core member of the test squad take the money and run before their sell by date.

He'll be 30 next month. Maybe he's looking at it as extending his career. Do two years in Japan with an easier seasons on the body and then return to either the UK or France for two or three more years. Japan is also a good springboard for taking a contract down in Australia ala Parling of that's what he wants to do.

Dont see that being a viable option if he has designs on being at the world cup. Once hes out of the squad hes highly unlikely to find a way back in short of an injury crisis, and I dont see Jones being the sort to forget he effectively walked away form the side by taking a contract abroad.

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:Kruis to Japan or France would be a loss, whilst England have plenty of locks hes still young enough to be at the next world cup if he doesnt rule himself out for a pension fund.

Could they not engage the "exceptional circumstances" claus for him.

Not when youve got 6 locks in the squad and people are moaning Isekwe should be in .... 
Ultimately its so ill defined it means if the coach wants to they can, but Jones hasnt shown any inclination to do that. And it would be one things if hes France based, but Japan would be utterly impractical. Essentially he'd be retiring himself from tests. Hes also going to command a higher wage on that basis, and since the only real motivation to move his family half way round the world would be the cash....
Ultimately it would likely be a bigger loss for the player than it would England given its a resource strong position for them but i still think it would be a big shame and set a worrying precedent to see a core member of the test squad take the money and run before their sell by date.

So Jones will simply repalce him with Isiekwe or kopoku?

Yeah as I said I dont see it as that big a problem for England in the grand scheme of things to move on without him. But seeing players who are still getting picked for England walk away when they are still in their prime would be a worrying trend if it does happen. And the premiership would be weaker without him even if he does lose his test place long term.

Gooseberry wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:Kruis to Japan or France would be a loss, whilst England have plenty of locks hes still young enough to be at the next world cup if he doesnt rule himself out for a pension fund.

Could they not engage the "exceptional circumstances" claus for him.

Not when youve got 6 locks in the squad and people are moaning Isekwe should be in .... 
Ultimately its so ill defined it means if the coach wants to they can, but Jones hasnt shown any inclination to do that. And it would be one things if hes France based, but Japan would be utterly impractical. Essentially he'd be retiring himself from tests. Hes also going to command a higher wage on that basis, and since the only real motivation to move his family half way round the world would be the cash....
Ultimately it would likely be a bigger loss for the player than it would England given its a resource strong position for them but i still think it would be a big shame and set a worrying precedent to see a core member of the test squad take the money and run before their sell by date.

He'll be 30 next month. Maybe he's looking at it as extending his career. Do two years in Japan with an easier seasons on the body and then return to either the UK or France for two or three more years. Japan is also a good springboard for taking a contract down in Australia ala Parling of that's what he wants to do.

Dont see that being a viable option if he has designs on being at the world cup. Once hes out of the squad hes highly unlikely to find a way back in short of an injury crisis, and I dont see Jones being the sort to forget he effectively walked away form the side by taking a contract abroad.

1. If Jones is still there.
2. We don't know whether he's consulted Jones and said that his body is struggling and a season or two in Japan to refresh it is what he needs. There would then be two years to develop younger options with a refreshed veteran returning the year before the RWC.

Option 2 could be ideal.