2020 Season Thread

by Azabache Fri 31 Jan 2020, 11:12 am

First topic message reminder :

Greetings, and awake from hibernation!

This thread opened for a season when we might see Ineos win all 3 Grand Tours?

by Azabache Thu 17 Sep 2020, 12:21 am

TJV are awesome-why am I getting bored? Too many automatons?

Looks like it's all over now.

by Soul Requiem Thu 17 Sep 2020, 8:06 am

It has been a very dull Tour but then it has been for a few years now; Roglic has done what he's needed to but there's been no solo breaks up Ventoux or Alp D'Huez or the Tourmalet.

by Azabache Thu 17 Sep 2020, 10:15 pm

Today's result was a rare heart-warming one with an old-fashioned breakaway culminating in two members of the same team agreeing on who was to take the spoils-the loyal servant Kwiatkowski earning his reward with Carapaz having the polka dot as recompense.

The Humourless Automatons didn't even get plaudits for slowing to help the hapless Porte get back after his puncture on the gravel, as it transpired that they weren't aware.

Yes, the days of nutters like Jackie Durand and Tommy V. livening up the race with amusing breakaways seem far away; the nearest present-day equivalent is Julian Alaphilippe I guess.

The ITV4 highlights programme had today's two stage winners coming home to the strains of the old standard "This Guy's in Love with You"! Brilliant and very welcome.

by Lowlandbrit Fri 18 Sep 2020, 7:27 am

I think we were all looking forward to a battle not just between the 'superteams' but within them too, and then (Kruijswijk,) Froome and Thomas didn't even start and Dumoulin quickly dropped out of contention. Bernal wasn't good enough, so then it's down to the field, and Pogacar doesn't really have any help, Porte and Landa are their usual slightly disappointing selves, Pinot couldn't even get any hopes up, and Quintana looks done.

I think there's been some pretty good stuff elsewhere though. Disagree that nobody's taken on the breakaways, Hirschi and Kaemna have been the revelations of the race for me (although if you didn't follow the Vuelta last year it's obviously Pogacar). Bennett's stage win/interview was also very memorable.

by Azabache Fri 18 Sep 2020, 11:56 pm

I think we all need some time to ponder on and digest this edition, which feels disappointing.

There isn't much time for that reflection with the Giro and Vuelta bearing down on us in this crazy year!

It's not the fault of the organisers, who devised a really tough route.

There were the usual bad luck stories-from crashes to unhealed injuries being brought into the race. Also, it's apparent that some teams were able to train fairly effectively and with most of their key riders; others were not so fortunate with some riders stuck in their home countries, or they just didn't get their act together.

Poor old Pinot did his emotional piece even earlier this year!

There's something about Jumbo Visma I don't like, but I can't quite as yet define what it is. We've had these relentless powerhouses before-principally U.S. Postal and Sky/Ineos-and many disliked them, but there were plenty of individual characters that generated interest, positive or negative. I just can't get any interest up with this lot; even the likeable Dumoulin seems to have become a cipher....

by Soul Requiem Sat 19 Sep 2020, 12:26 pm

Azabache wrote:

There's something about Jumbo Visma I don't like, but I can't quite as yet define what it is. We've had these relentless powerhouses before-principally U.S. Postal and Sky/Ineos-and many disliked them, but there were plenty of individual characters that generated interest, positive or negative. I just can't get any interest up with this lot; even the likeable Dumoulin seems to have become a cipher....

With regards to Sky, I think the big difference is that Froome in particular attacked whenever he could whether it be in the mountains or one of his suicidal descents, yes he was helped by having a couple of super domestiques capable of winning GTs on their own. I enjoyed watching him ride for that reason, ignoring the superhuman break in the Giro he's always taken a risk despite knowing he'll best his rivals in any time trials there are.

I don't get that sense with Roglic, take away the team behind him and I feel he lacks the ability to go it alone, it ultimately creates a very dull spectacle where you know he'll defend all day without creating any ounce of excitement. Dumoulin fits into that framework too, follows the Indurain way of doing things, hang tough in the mountains and make up big time in the time trials. As you alluded to elsewhere in your post it is hard to know what actual preparation some teams were able to do, it was always going to be an odd race for that reason.

by Lowlandbrit Sat 19 Sep 2020, 12:30 pm

Azabache wrote:There's something about Jumbo Visma I don't like, but I can't quite as yet define what it is. We've had these relentless powerhouses before-principally U.S. Postal and Sky/Ineos-and many disliked them, but there were plenty of individual characters that generated interest, positive or negative. I just can't get any interest up with this lot; even the likeable Dumoulin seems to have become a cipher....

Obviously taste is personal, but here are some thoughts (general lack of opposition is my main theory, if they were actively battling their Ineos -or UAE- counterparts it would be more interesting):
1- Roglic is fairly stoic, and as the main man it radiates out to the rest
2- Martin and Gesink, the two vets/best known riders, are used early on in the stages (I had to look up that Jansen was the 8th man, can't remember seeing him at all)
3- If Dumoulin hadn't given up on his GC ambitions so quickly, Kuss (and to a certain extent Bennett) would get more attention/love
4- If you're not remotely interested in van Aert I don't know what to tell you

by Lowlandbrit Sat 19 Sep 2020, 5:08 pm

Pogacar is ridiculous.

by Soul Requiem Sat 19 Sep 2020, 5:09 pm

Not sure I believe that i'm afraid, beating Dumoulin by that much on a mountain TT is well 90'sish.

by Lowlandbrit Sat 19 Sep 2020, 5:14 pm

Dumoulin probably cost himself at very least half a minute by not switching bikes, but still...

Yellow, white and polka dot jerseys for Pogacar.

by Soul Requiem Sat 19 Sep 2020, 5:20 pm

Perhaps, i'm pleased in a way that Roglic didn't win with such a passive overall display but I don't think that is good at all for cyclings reputation.

by Azabache Sat 19 Sep 2020, 11:03 pm

Apologies for omission-yes, van Aert has been terrific.

After wishing for some time for TJV to be humbled, or at least severely tested, I felt sorry for Roglic. But it proves once again that it ain't over till the penultimate stage.

Assuming that Pogacar's sensational performance was legit, what does this hold for the next few seasons? Frightening!

by alfie Sun 20 Sep 2020, 10:26 am

Remarkable finish to what has - probably fairly - been largely regarded as a "dull" Tour...

Have to feel for Roglic. Maybe he lacks charisma ; but he has shown no weakness for all this time and to have it all snatched away at the eleventh hour by an amazing TT performance like that ...well what can you say ?

If Pogacar is indeed the real deal his rivals are going to need to produce some magic over the next few years !

Footnote : I am really pleased to see Richie Porte make it on to the podium after battling away for so many years : only the second Aussie to do so thumbsup

by No name Bertie Sun 20 Sep 2020, 3:58 pm

Egan Bernal is only 23 and won the Tour De France last year aged 22. I thought he was going to dominate the TdF for the next decade. But he seems to be struggling with an injury in this tour and then along comes 21 year old Pogacar.

Pogacar seems to have broken many age records on his rise to win this years TdF. There is no need to feel sorry for Roglic. Pogacar has won this fair and square without the advantage of having a big team behind him compared to Roglic from what I read here.

Yes maybe Pagacar is filled with drugs but unlikely given his age and his previous record. Maybe other cyclists are filled with drugs also. Or maybe the testing program is working and the ethos has changed.

by Azabache Mon 21 Sep 2020, 12:19 am

We can only hope-the alternative stinks. And I speak as one that wouldn't believe the rumours about He Whose Name Must Never be Mentioned, though that was more from a quasi-legalistic viewpoint ("innocent before being proven guilty").

A short Losers' Roll of Honour would be fitting...I would name in no particular order:
. Mas-a model of consistency
. Van Aert
. Bardet-unlucky again
. Pinot-ditto
. Bernal-tried his best, very honest
. Porte-well, a Winner really, everyone is pleased for him
. Landa
. Alaphiippe
. Carapaz-tried his best
. Sagan-like him or loathe him
. T. Martin-grinding every day at the front!

by Soul Requiem Mon 21 Sep 2020, 8:30 am

Pleased that Bennett won the green jersey, about time an actual sprinter won it instead of someone being rewarded for being less rubbish on the hilly stages.

by Lowlandbrit Fri 25 Sep 2020, 4:19 pm

Ineos trying to get over the Tour disappointment with some retail therapy: Richie Porte, Dani Martinez, Laurens de Plus, and Tom Pidcock have been (re)added.

by Azabache Thu 01 Oct 2020, 12:13 am

GIRO

Pleased to see that Quest channel are having a highlights programme each evening. (I only have Freeview.)

Thomas looks in good shape now and hasn't Tour fatigue...

by No name Bertie Thu 01 Oct 2020, 3:54 pm

Has anyone heard of Quinn Simmons? The BBC had him as a breaking world news story.

Apparently he is deemed a racist but it is unclear from the BBC story precisely what the reasoning behind it is. It has something to do with him responding to an anti-Trump tweet. I know there are some British forums that assume all Trump supporters are racist and will ban you from their forum if you declare yourself a Trump supporter.

BBC wrote:On Wednesday, Dutch journalist Jose Been tweeted: "My dear American friends, I hope this horrible presidency ends for you. And for us ...
If you follow me and support Trump, you can go. There is zero excuse to follow or vote for the vile, horrible man."

Following his response to the tweet, Simmons was asked by another Twitter user if he was a 'Trumper', to which he replied "that's right" followed by an emoji of the US flag.

In addition to the suggestion of racism, other Twitter users said they would no longer buy bikes from Trek Bikes, the team's title sponsor.

BBC wrote: Trek-Segafredo have suspended junior road race world champion Quinn Simmons after he made "divisive, incendiary, and detrimental" statements on Twitter.

The 19-year-old American, who won his title in 2019, responded to a tweet by a cycling journalist about United States president Donald Trump with 'bye' and a black hand-waving emoji.

His response, deemed racist by some Twitter users, sparked a backlash.

Trek-Segafredo said he would not race for them "until further notice".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/54367940

by Lowlandbrit Fri 02 Oct 2020, 6:12 pm

The EF jersey for the Giro is absolutely preposterous.

https://twitter.com/EFprocycling/status/1311773536718139393

by Lowlandbrit Sun 04 Oct 2020, 4:41 pm

Weird finish in LBL, where Alaphilippe swerves in the sprint taking out Hirschi and then celebrates too early and gets pipped on the line by Roglic.

by Guest Mon 05 Oct 2020, 3:36 pm

Thomas in trouble at the Giro

by Lowlandbrit Mon 05 Oct 2020, 3:40 pm

The Giro is usually much more entertaining viewing than the Tour, but in this crazy year and after that ending in France... it looks like it still is.

by Azabache Fri 09 Oct 2020, 11:25 pm

Ineos seemed to have signed a Beast (memories of Cippollini and Pettachi) in Ganna!

by Lowlandbrit Sun 11 Oct 2020, 3:42 pm

Teary post-race interview with Mark Cavendish on Belgian TV after Gent-Wevelgem saying he thinks it might have been his last race, after which they cut back to a stunned looking studio where they felt a career like that deserves a much bigger send-off.

by Azabache Sun 11 Oct 2020, 10:45 pm

He has a fantastic record but has to mentally adjust to the inevitable decline from his awesome standards. Only he, with his advisers, can decide whether there's a chance to get back after suffering this cursed Epstein-Barr virus.

Can he expect Leader status, or will he accept "domestique" duties to see out his career?

Or call it a day still at the top (more or less)?

No-one likes to see this, so we can only wish him the best if, indeed, he is to embark upon the next phase of his life.

Spare a thought for all those normal riders who count themselves very lucky to retire with sufficient funds to invest in a bike shop/café/local business....

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Mon 12 Oct 2020, 7:51 am

A real shame that virus has deprived him of being able to properly compete for the last few years, totally understand if he wants to walk away finally. Seemed nailed on to break the TDF stage wins record at one point, will have to do with being one of the best sprinters of all time

by Lowlandbrit Tue 13 Oct 2020, 3:29 pm

Jumbo-Visma have completely withdrawn from the Giro after Kruijswijk tested positive for coronavirus. Mitchelton-Scott have gone home too.

by Azabache Tue 13 Oct 2020, 9:49 pm

As the Giro have supposed to have followed the largely successful TdF regime, the inescapable finger of suspicion presumably falls on "public" hotels?

by Lowlandbrit Wed 14 Oct 2020, 5:01 pm

Don't know, I remember some stories from journalists that were at the Tour that make me think there was some luck/timing involved in that working as well as it did.

by Azabache Wed 14 Oct 2020, 11:50 pm

And they changed their own rules after the first test day!

by Lowlandbrit Mon 19 Oct 2020, 7:50 am

Tour of Flanders yesterday; Alaphilippe, van Aert and van der Poel broke away to set up a sequel to Gent-Wevelgem only for Alaphilippe to hit a motorbike while on the radio to his team. Like so often in their cyclocross days, van der Poel came out on top in the end.

Meanwhile, in Italy; Joao Almeida leads Wilco Kelderman by 17 seconds for today's crucial rest day, where we find out who (if anyone) is going to be left in the race for the last week. Which is going through the Alps in late October, so who even knows how much of the planned route they're going to be able to cover.

by dummy_half Mon 19 Oct 2020, 2:19 pm

Lowlandbrit wrote:Tour of Flanders yesterday; Alaphilippe, van Aert and van der Poel broke away to set up a sequel to Gent-Wevelgem only for Alaphilippe to hit a motorbike while on the radio to his team. Like so often in their cyclocross days, van der Poel came out on top in the end.

Meanwhile, in Italy; Joao Almeida leads Wilco Kelderman by 17 seconds for today's crucial rest day, where we find out who (if anyone) is going to be left in the race for the last week. Which is going through the Alps in late October, so who even knows how much of the planned route they're going to be able to cover.

Add in Evanepoel (obviously currently out injured) and you'd have the best break away group in modern cycling.

Regarding the Giro, a great day yesterday for Geoghegan Hart, winning the stage and moving up to 4th, jumping several of the best climbers in the process. Still nearly 3 minutes down on the pink jersey, but Almeida is definitely not a proven contender at this level, and Kelderman is usually a top domestique / second string leader at the GTs, so its still a very open race. Could still be chaos with this late foray into the Alps and with the Covid uncertainty. I do hope they are equiping the bikes with skis for some of the descents this week...

by Azabache Mon 19 Oct 2020, 11:09 pm

It's still only mid October, not mid January!

I bet a lot of the riders would prefer these conditions to what they often get in the "Spring" Classics....

by dummy_half Tue 20 Oct 2020, 8:49 am

Azabache wrote:It's still only mid October, not mid January!

I bet a lot of the riders would prefer these conditions to what they often get in the "Spring" Classics....

Wasn't there a Paris Roubaix in the 80s in a blizzard? Then again the Giro in its usual late spring slot isn't immune from some pretty rough weather in the Alps and Dolomites. Wasn't it only 2 or 3 years ago one stage had to be truncated because one of the mountain passes was blocked by snow.

by Lowlandbrit Tue 20 Oct 2020, 4:36 pm

Bit of a bloodbath to kick off the Vuelta today!

by Azabache Wed 21 Oct 2020, 12:13 am

D-H.....Are you thinking of the Badger in the 1980 L-B-L?
There are famous shots of him; and I recall that he lost feeling in his fingers for ages afterwards.

LLB...Lots of comments about Stage 4 should be the new norm for Stage 1!

The pundits on ITV4 thought that Froome measured himself...

by Lowlandbrit Fri 23 Oct 2020, 4:20 pm

Assuming Kelderman didn't pick up pneumonia descending the Stelvio without a jacket on yesterday, we're left with a (completely redesigned because they're not being allowed into France) mountain stage and a TT to sort out this:
Wilco Kelderman
Jai Hindley +12"
Tao Geoghegan Hart +15"

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Fri 23 Oct 2020, 4:31 pm

Lowlandbrit wrote:Assuming Kelderman didn't pick up pneumonia descending the Stelvio without a jacket on yesterday, we're left with a (completely redesigned because they're not being allowed into France) mountain stage and a TT to sort out this:
Wilco Kelderman
Jai Hindley +12"
Tao Geoghegan Hart +15"

Who is strongest in the TT? Kelderman? Have to admit don't know too much about Hindley or Tao's TT abilities...

by Lowlandbrit Sun 25 Oct 2020, 4:24 pm

Geoghegan Hart wins the Giro, organisers presumably figuring out a way to make the course for next year nothing but TT after Ganna goes 3 for 3.

Meanwhile in Spain, Jumbo-Visma seemingly melt in the rain and Carapaz takes over the red jersey from Roglic. Hugh Carthy 2nd at 18", Daniel Martin 3rd at 20", Chris Froome 98th at over an hour.

by Soul Requiem Sun 25 Oct 2020, 4:32 pm

Geoghegan Hart was superb over the final week and fully deserving of his overall victory. Rode within himself a few times when it felt as though he could crack Hindley and Kelderman any time he wanted. He owes Rohan Dennis a drink or few.

by Azabache Mon 26 Oct 2020, 10:37 pm

Is there going to be any follow-up to the disgraceful behavior of the riders/teams (and WHO were they?) who forced the organisers to cut short that planned longest stage?

I thought that this was supposed to be an endurance sport; and since when was a forecast 13degreesC a reason to whimper?

The poor dears. And if it was a particular team behind it they should be thrown off the World Tour.

by Lowlandbrit Wed 28 Oct 2020, 4:27 pm

Cracking Vuelta stage today, Roglic wins and bouces back in the GC to set things up very nicely for the weekend. Really impressed with Carthy so far.

by Azabache Wed 28 Oct 2020, 11:50 pm

Yes-whether you like him or are indifferent to him (bit like Sagan) he's one hell of a rider.

And Valverde at 40 continues to impress and shows how to climb!

Gives hope to us lowly amateurs.

by dummy_half Thu 29 Oct 2020, 10:58 am

Lowlandbrit wrote:Geoghegan Hart wins the Giro, organisers presumably figuring out a way to make the course for next year nothing but TT after Ganna goes 3 for 3.

Meanwhile in Spain, Jumbo-Visma seemingly melt in the rain and Carapaz takes over the red jersey from Roglic. Hugh Carthy 2nd at 18", Daniel Martin 3rd at 20", Chris Froome 98th at over an hour.

Giro organisers would never come up with a route of time trials and no real mountains to favour one of their own (cough - Moser - cough) Wink

Anyway, a superb battle between TGH and Hindley over the last week, and either would have been a deserved winner. MVP award to Rohan Dennis for destroying the rest of the field on the two decisive mountain stages.

Haven't seen much of the Vuelta apart from yesterday's stage, which was a typical Vuelta super-steep mountain finish, with riders finishing in ones and twos. Carapaz would have wanted to take substantial time from Roglic on a stage like that, but definitely not to be.

by Lowlandbrit Sun 08 Nov 2020, 4:22 pm

Bit of a weird up and down Vuelta for Rogilic, but he did enough to beat Carapaz by 24 seconds in the end with Hugh Carthy finishing third. By all accounts a very good job by the organisers keeping Covid out too.

by Azabache Sun 08 Nov 2020, 10:20 pm

Most folk are more interested in discussing the runners-up and potential future stars than this zero personality winner and his automaton-like team.

Here's to 2021......

by formerly known as Sam Mon 09 Nov 2020, 6:30 pm

Lowlandbrit wrote:Bit of a weird up and down Vuelta for Rogilic, but he did enough to beat Carapaz by 24 seconds in the end with Hugh Carthy finishing third. By all accounts a very good job by the organisers keeping Covid out too.

Seemed to me like Carapaz wasn't willing to risk his podium place and take a big shot at 1st. He left it too late on the penultimate day. Roglic had support but not the legs and it looked like that for most the mountain. Carapaz only really attacked because Carthy tried something and it was obvious Roglic had little left. Really disappointed with that from Carapaz, he's a previous grand tour winner there should have beenlre ambition. Carthy trying first and foremost to keep his podium spot is understandable given his lack of support and previous results.

by Azabache Mon 09 Nov 2020, 10:58 pm

Have the French at long last found a real future star to challenge for the Tour? Very early days of course and a lot can, and probably will, happen before next July!

by formerly known as Sam Tue 10 Nov 2020, 9:41 am

Azabache wrote:Have the French at long last found a real future star to challenge for the Tour? Very early days of course and a lot can, and probably will, happen before next July!

It's not just finding the star it's developing a team around them that can offer then enough support in the mountains. Jumbo Visma and Ineos will be strong next year. Alaphilippe looked strong the other year but suffered on the mountains and had no support unlike Roglic who was escorted up most the mountains this year and Bernal last year who was working in tandem with Thomas.

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