F1 2020 Season

First topic message reminder :

Thought I'd start this thread since no-one else has yet.

First glimpse of this season's cars as Haas unveil their entry for this year. Not really much difference visually from last season, but then there haven't been any major rule changes:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/51405017




Have to say I quite like this livery.

Feel free to add more pics as they are released...

Be massively disappointed if Mercedes just give Bottas another year instead of promoting someone like a Russell. Talk about boring

With the rules staying the same in 2021, it seems most logical to retain Bottas. Especially as he’s already got a win and a pole in 2020.

Yep, Alonso confirmed back at Renault. Don’t see the point, but obviously Renault will try and sell his return, to potential sponsors etc. LM probably happy too with him back in the sport, especially if Vettel departs.

Looks on paper to be another doomed Alonso move.

Renault have slipped towards the middle/back of the midfield since last season while McLaren and now RP have jumped them. With frozen regs, hard to see this being a massive success

Can only think it’s a desperate Hail Mary attempt at winning a world title in, 2022. Major regulation change, and him praying Renault somehow come up with a competitive car.

Tbh Alonso’s probably won’t enjoy doing IndyCar full time, I mean I get bored watching a few laps, imagine doing 800 left turns only every other weekend.

Joking aside Alonso is banking on the new regulations and the budget cap, obviously the pandemic altered his plans as his original plan was to return only for the new regulations.

That aside as John mentioned, Alonso is more marketable than Vettel. Vettel has no social media presence at all. At least with Alonso they can build up the hype again

I think he's still smarting from the fact that 3rd title eluded him for so long. He's always said he'd keep his options open, so its not a huge surprise he's coming back (probably for 1 last roll of the dice).

If the 2022 regs deliver on their promise, the cars should be able to race a lot closer together, meaning driver skill will count for more (would love to see them ditch DRS too) and they don't just have to sit back and wait for the right point on the track to overtake.

Budget cap (in theory) should mean the big teams can't just outspend the smaller ones to get a performance advantage. Still love to know how they intend to police this. So the playing field SHOULD be more level.

Lots of ifs, but if things pan out the way Liberty and the FIA intend, then Alonso has as good a chance as anyone.

I don't expect Renault to suddenly become world-beaters, but if they are even reasonably competitive...who knows...?

Sebastian Vettel maybe returning home to Red Bull. Max Verstappen has endorsed a potential partnership with the former Red Bull darling. I never thought Verstappen would want to see Vettel as his partner but I guess it works in his favour as he can put the ghost the rest per se.

TBH I don't see Max being that threatened by the Vettel of 2020 /2021- Seb isn't in the form he was in his world title years, and even then there were some question marks about his quality as a racer (i.e. was very fast on a clear track but was less good at passing opponents than some of his rivals). I think Max has his number quite easily - quicker and a better racer in traffic.

I wouldn’t be surprised, given his relationship with Marko/Horner etc. Tbh, Albon is a no-mans land driver, who only becomes competitive when a SC is called, or if his rivals endure reliability issues. 4 tenths off Max in Q last weekend, on a very short track, was worrying too.

Be tough on Albon, but F1 is about ‘who you know’ and ‘timing’, and, unfortunately, Vettel being available, looks like it might result in him losing that seat, and probably being relegated back to AlphaTauri.

The same would be for Sergio Perez, and harsh, if Aston Martin signed Vettel.

Jeff Navarro wrote:... Alonso is more marketable than Vettel. Vettel has no social media presence at all. At least with Alonso they can build up the hype again

You state that "Alonso is more marketable than Vettel".  Is this your opinion or is there any evidence for that?  You mention social media presence but is that evidence for marketability?   Marketable people are not necessarily interested in having a presence on social media.  Vettel is quite a private person similar to Schumacher.  

My own opinion is that the potential loss of Vettel from F1 in 2021 would result in a greater loss of interest of F1 globally than any interest gained by Alonso rejoining F1 in 2021.

Fernando does bigger business in Spain than Vettel does for Germany. Santander paid his salary at Ferrari iirc

I'm not upset to see Nando back in F1 by any means but I do question what it says about Renault and their young driver program when next year's pairing will be a 39 year old who was last seen not giving a **** at McLaren and a Mercedes driver

Tbh, their young driver program isn’t stocked with great talent. Guanyu Zhou came 7th in F2 last year, and has never won a race, and Christian Lundgaard is only 18. Renault probably still haunted by Jolyon Palmer’s performances, the last time they promoted from within.

No name Bertie wrote:

Jeff Navarro wrote:... Alonso is more marketable than Vettel. Vettel has no social media presence at all. At least with Alonso they can build up the hype again

You state that "Alonso is more marketable than Vettel".  Is this your opinion or is there any evidence for that?  You mention social media presence but is that evidence for marketability?   Marketable people are not necessarily interested in having a presence on social media.  Vettel is quite a private person similar to Schumacher.  

My own opinion is that the potential loss of Vettel from F1 in 2021 would result in a greater loss of interest of F1 globally than any interest gained by Alonso rejoining F1 in 2021.

It’s a known fact that Alonso is more marketable than Vettel. Heck Alonso’s popularity even ensured that we previously had to suffer two boring Spanish GPs rather than the usual Catalan bore fest.

Vettel isn’t as popular in his own homeland as you’d expect of a quadruple world champion.

7 further races set to be finalised in the coming few weeks.
Mugello - potentially named GP of Tuscany
Russia
Portugal - Portimao
Vietnam
Bahrain 1
Bahrain 2
Abu Dhabi

4 additional races Liberty hope to run - China, USA, Mexico and Brazil but these are less probable

GSC wrote:Santander paid his salary at Ferrari iirc

I would like expand on this point. Santander has paid the majority of Alonso’s salary whilst he’s been in F1. As such Alonso’s assortments of rants have been tolerated by Renault, Ferrari and McLaren. As essentially whichever team he drives for aren’t paying his $30m salary.

There’s strong suggestions that Vettel queried the ability of the Ferrari engineers and this was the true reason to his exit. If you recall back to Prost’s time at Ferrari, he was critical of the car - he was promptly sacked.

Dietrich Mateschitz has told Marko and Horner re-signing Vettel is a priority as much so that it’s an order from the top dog at Red Bull. Essentially meaning Kvyat vs Gasly are fighting for one seat.

And Honda paid for Alonso at his 2nd McLaren stint if memory serves.

Doubt they look at that as a good investment

Mugello confirmed for Sep 13th with Sochi 2 weeks later

Load of rain expected for Q, so could be delayed until Sunday, depending how bad it is.

GSC wrote:I'm not upset to see Nando back in F1 by any means but I do question what it says about Renault and their young driver program when next year's pairing will be a 39 year old who was last seen not giving a **** at McLaren and a Mercedes driver

Not giving a Frak? He was berating the team pretty regularly over the radio for lumbering him with a Poopie "GP2" engine. Still also achieved the team's best results, with a number of points finishes, despite driving a lame dog of a car.

A driver who didn't care would have just kept schtum and collected his paycheque. Say what you like about him, but I'm pretty sure he does care, regardless of who he drives for. And I say this as someone who thought he was just an annoying whiny git for quite a while. I've since realised most drivers are like this at least some of the time, when things aren't going well for them.

Also, young drivers (at least ones considered good enough to be worth a shot) do appear to be in short supply these days. Even Red Bull's vaunted junior driver production line seems to have stalled - hence Kvyat being brought back to (then) Toro Rosso.

Mercedes seem to have a monopoly on them at the moment.

Jeff Navarro wrote:Dietrich Mateschitz has told Marko and Horner re-signing Vettel is a priority as much so that it’s an order from the top dog at Red Bull. Essentially meaning Kvyat vs Gasly are fighting for one seat.

If this is true I just hope they are prepared for the fallout when Vettel is made to look like an OAP by Verstappen.

Horner has stated a few times in interviews that he doesn't want to work with Vettel again. Wonder if he would consider his position and maybe look for another job?

dyrewolfe wrote:

Jeff Navarro wrote:Dietrich Mateschitz has told Marko and Horner re-signing Vettel is a priority as much so that it’s an order from the top dog at Red Bull. Essentially meaning Kvyat vs Gasly are fighting for one seat.

If this is true I just hope they are prepared for the fallout when Vettel is made to look like an OAP by Verstappen.

Horner has stated a few times in interviews that he doesn't want to work with Vettel again. Wonder if he would consider his position and maybe look for another job?

I believe a Thai family owns 51% of Red Bull, and Mateschitz 49%. Alex Albon is Thai-British. I think also Mateschitz had three preconditions behind his wish that Vettel return to Red Bull.

Horner has just said no on TV anyway

On Alonso, when it became clear Renault engines were not going to be a silver bullet, he was out. Leaving to do the Indy 500 isn't really a great sign of commitment even if the car was uncompetitive

GSC wrote:Horner has just said no on TV anyway

Yeah, saw that. Essentially, I wouldn’t believe a word of it. Just trying to dampen down the media frenzy over it. I’m sure they will analyse Albon’s performances through the first half of the season, and keep Vettel on the back-burner, until a definitive decision has been made.

With Albon it will ultimately come down to race performance (how many points can he get to help Red Bull in the team championship), then qualifying pace, then team feedback for car set up and development.  

Red Bull did have what seemed to have been the ideal partner to Verstappen in Ricciardo, someone who outwardly seems to be relaxed and a team player, but he couldn't seem to hack the challenge of a rising star in Verstappen and maybe what he saw as team favoritism towards Verstappen.

Currently Verstappen is clearly the Red Bull's number one driver, and much of the testing and car development has been geared towards him and his driving style.  They cannot afford to let him move to another team.  They seemed very nervous a year or two ago when it was claimed that Mercedes where interested in poaching him.

No name Bertie wrote:

dyrewolfe wrote:

Jeff Navarro wrote:Dietrich Mateschitz has told Marko and Horner re-signing Vettel is a priority as much so that it’s an order from the top dog at Red Bull. Essentially meaning Kvyat vs Gasly are fighting for one seat.

If this is true I just hope they are prepared for the fallout when Vettel is made to look like an OAP by Verstappen.

Horner has stated a few times in interviews that he doesn't want to work with Vettel again. Wonder if he would consider his position and maybe look for another job?

I believe a Thai family owns 51% of Red Bull, and Mateschitz 49%.  Alex Albon is Thai-British.  I think also Mateschitz had three preconditions behind his wish that Vettel return to Red Bull.

Good point. I would have thought any rational person would think Albon has the greatest capacity and likelihood of improving - between him & Vettel.

He's also shown he's capable of driving at the front of the grid...provided he can stay away from Hamilton...

Norris given three place grid penalty

Whilst it's 100% correct that a Thai family owns 51% of Red Bull, both the F1 teams where founded and owned by Mateschitz. So regardless of Albon's nationality, it's all about winning for Mateschitz.

Styrian GP Q result

Lewis Hamilton pole by 1.2 seconds
Verstappen P2
Sainz P3
Bottas P4

Vettel starts in P10 & Leclerc eliminated in Q2 and starts 11th. Can see why Racing Point would be stupid not to look at someone like Vettel, after today’s showing from their drivers.

Matteo Binotto suffered a Kevin Keegan style meltdown on Italian TV during a Ferrari press briefing. He launched a strange attack on Ferrari’s senior management, proclaiming ‘my team doesn’t support me like Wolff and Horner’.

Binotto is getting delusional if you ask me. He opted to fire a driver that the senior management wanted to retain. He also didn’t take any care and attention of the 2020 car. In my book he’s fortunate to still be in a job.

Just John wrote:Styrian GP Q result

Lewis Hamilton pole by 1.2 seconds
Verstappen P2
Sainz P3
Bottas P4

Vettel starts in P10 & Leclerc eliminated in Q2 and starts 11th. Can see why Racing Point would be stupid not to look at someone like Vettel, after today’s showing from their drivers.

Are you kidding? Stroll and Perez actually looked pretty decent in the first race. Perez could have had a podium if they'd put him on fresh tyres for the last stint. Stroll could have had a points finish if his car hadn't broken down.

Vettel is a spent force. All we know from yesterday is that either the drivers, or the car (or both) don't like wet weather. On balance I would still say having Vettel in the team would only weaken it. I'd be willing to bet over the course of the season they will both finish ahead of him in the standings.


Anyway, back to today's race, I can see an interesting battle at the front between Hamilton & Verstappen (or at least am hoping for one). Expect Bottas to have another one of his 1-car races. Will probably get past Sainz, but will finish a distant & lonely 3rd.

Should be some interesting scraps below him for the other points places.

Of course, if there is more rain, then all bets are off (except for Lewis still winning by miles).

Sorry but Vettel and Ferrari since Binotto's arrival isn't a reflection of the German's ability. Since Binotto decided LeClerc was the one he wants, Vettel's feedback and interaction with the engineers has be disregarded - even LeClerc was quoted as being bemused by this.

There is no situation where the like of Perez or Stroll would beat Vettel. I'd bet my collection of historic Ferrari merchandise on this point.

dyrewolfe wrote:Are you kidding?

No

Hahaha the Ferraris have hit each other

The gift that keeps on giving

Both Ferraris out within six laps.

Wonder what the reaction would be had Vettel pulled that move on LeClerc...

LeClerc knows he’s can basically be as aggressive as he wants against Vettel as he’s the man with a 5 year deal. That says it’s was a terrible move, launching yourself over the curbs and taking out your teammate not very logical

Albon living up to his no mans land status. Just not good enough

Feel for Perez at the end.

In the first two races of this 2020 season Lando Norris has already got just over half of the total points he amassed for the 21 races of the 2019 season (26 points versus 49 points).

GSC wrote:Wonder what the reaction would be had Vettel pulled that move on LeClerc...

Well although Race Control called it a racing incident, I put the blame squarely at Leclerc's feet for that. Yes there technically was a gap - but realistically he had no chance of getting past at that stage of the race, when the cars were all still bunched up. He could see the cars on Vettel's outside and should have expected him to move inside. Stupid and needless move that destroyed the race for Ferrari.

If the roles were reversed I'd say the same of Vettel - though given his recent mistakes I'd have been less surprised.

No surprise that Lewis led the majority of the race. Smooth and trouble-free. Bottas was a bit fortunate I feel that Verstappen picked up some wing damage and was struggling with worn tyres at the end. Would have had to settle for 3rd other wise.

Decent drive by Max - let down a bit by team strategy. Seriously, what was the point of pitting him with 2 laps to go? Did they really think Albon would catch him? Albon horribly off the pace for some reason. Did okay to finish 4th, but its never good to be over half a minute behind your team mate (at least until Max pitted).

Another decent result for Racing Point. Some nice duelling between Lance & Sergio. Perez probably would have done better had he not rubbed wheels trying to get past Albon & broken his front wing.

Pleased to see Norris put on another late charge. Looks like McLaren have figured out how to use their car's performance to maximum benefit. Also nice to see them putting in fastest laps late in the race, showing the car has good pace with low fuel.

dyrewolfe wrote:Albon horribly off the pace for some reason.

Nothing unusual about it. He’s consistently in no-mans land, with no hiding place today. He’s rather irrelevant in F1, unless a SC comes out, and bails him out. I’d be amazed if RB don’t offer Vettel the seat for, 2021. Basically RB playing 2 v 1 in most races, really will hinder and restrict them strategically. Been nearly a year at RB has Albon, and still no podium, kind of suggests he’s way short of what RB require, up against, Mercedes.

Just John wrote:

dyrewolfe wrote:Albon horribly off the pace for some reason.

Nothing unusual about it. He’s consistently in no-mans land, with no hiding place today. He’s rather irrelevant in F1, unless a SC comes out, and bails him out. I’d be amazed if RB don’t offer Vettel the seat for, 2021. Basically RB playing 2 v 1 in most races, really will hinder and restrict them strategically. Been nearly a year at RB has Albon, and still no podium, kind of suggests he’s way short of what RB require, up against, Mercedes.

That makes as much sense as your idea for Vettel to go to Racing Point.

You have to question whether he even has the appetite for F1 any more.

Couldn't hack it at Red Bull when Ricciardo came along. Couldn't live with Leclerc at Mercedes. He wouldn't fare any better at Red Bull with Verstappen.

Vettel isn't a #2 driver and if he isn't top dog, you're not going to get the best out of him.

I really can't see him going back to the team he won 4 titles with, to be a wing man...even if he was offered a big fat contract.

Quite honestly I think the best thing for him is to take a season out. Take some time to reflect and evaluate whether he still has it in him. I genuinely believe the last few seasons have shot his confidence and self belief, seeing the crop of young guns coming through to usurp the old guard (apart from Hamilton).

I really don't think RB are much worse off with Albon than they would be with Vettel...and at least Alex has time to improve.

Other than that, the most useful thing Seb could do would be to go to one of the smaller teams as the #1 driver to impart his wisdom, where he might actually have some impact. But I don't think he'd want to do that either.

Renault appealed the legality of Racing Point’s car, which has been accepted by stewards. Racing Point will be screwed if found to be cheating.

Pretty sure the FIA have approved all their designs. RP reverse engineered this concept, the underneath is nothing like a Mercedes, other than the engine. Being ‘accepted by stewards’, means that they’re just going through the correct process of investigation. Can’t see RP being thrown out.

Just looks like Renault trying to look for excuses for problems with their car, plus they’re just fuming still over Stoll’s move on Ricciardo.

FIA has confirmed they have confiscated parts from racing point including the brake ducts. It's a bit embarrassing that a 2019 clone car was faster than all bar Mercedes for long periods of the race.

This one was coming. I'm sure it's slightly different enough to pass

Albon was promoted too early really. He wasn't really remarkable next to Kvyat but they weren't going to put Kvyat back in the RB and Gasly wasn't doing the job either

Probably wish they had held onto Sainz for a year longer