Wilder v Fury Part Two

Anyone interested in this fight or have they lost interest in boxing altogether? I'm keen to hear the views of posters on this Forum, as I'm sure there will be various predictions to how the fight will end. My feelings are, even though I thought Fury won their first encounter, I think Wilder will think "he didn't hurt me last time so he won't hurt this time" and go all out for a knockout. What do the rest of you think?

Lately I have lost interest in boxing. Think years of the best avoiding the best/the multitude of belts and "world champions" has finally started to take its toll. However you can't argue with this fight, 2 of the best heavyweights going head to head is definitely a fight I can get excited about.

Think it will be very similar to the first fight. Fury outboxing him and Wilder looking for the big shot. Prediction is Fury UD with him avoiding the canvas completely this time around.

Wilder may want to rely too much on the one-shot stoppage as he did against Ortiz. He practically lost every round in that fight until Ortiz got sloppy. Fury has boxing ability plus he's really awkward so it won't be so easy.

I think Fury spoils his way to UD and Wilder gets very upset in the post-fight interview.

lfc91 wrote:Think it will be very similar to the first fight. Fury outboxing him and Wilder looking for the big shot. Prediction is Fury UD with him avoiding the canvas completely this time around.

Mr Bounce wrote:Wilder may want to rely too much on the one-shot stoppage as he did against Ortiz. He practically lost every round in that fight until Ortiz got sloppy. Fury has boxing ability plus he's really awkward so it won't be so easy.

I think Fury spoils his way to UD and Wilder gets very upset in the post-fight interview.

Agree with both of these posts, plus Fury was definitely not in the best condition physically before the first fight, and (probably) not in the best condition mentally either, after 3 years out of the ring living a bit of a crazy lifestyle...

I thought he won the first fight despite the two knockdowns- felt he was in complete control of the ring. Likelihood is he will be better prepared for this fight, so I think he'll be able to avoid/ negate Wilder's big punch, and for all his talk of needing a knockout- I think that's just in hope of distracting Wilder. Comfortable UD for Fury.

Although the question is, how dominant would Fury need to be to actually receive the decision on the cards. From memory the general consensus last time was that Fury won the fight. But for obvious reasons the draw was returned on the cards. A 12 round shut out might be required to secure a tight SD on the cards....

If Wilder hadn't scored the two knockdowns in the first fight, you'd have to assume the decision would have gone Fury's way, right? Fury was out after the second knockdown, but still beat the count- so that must have played a large part in awarding the draw.

Fury may well be even more dominant this time round, but I don't think he necessarily needs to be, in order to get the win. He just(!) needs to avoid getting tagged by a big right from Wilder. Ignore the two knockdowns from the first fight, and there's no way you get anything other than a UD for Fury, right?!

Noble-Surfer wrote:If Wilder hadn't scored the two knockdowns in the first fight, you'd have to assume the decision would have gone Fury's way, right? Fury was out after the second knockdown, but still beat the count- so that must have played a large part in awarding the draw.

Fury may well be even more dominant this time round, but I don't think he necessarily needs to be, in order to get the win. He just(!) needs to avoid getting tagged by a big right from Wilder. Ignore the two knockdowns from the first fight, and there's no way you get anything other than a UD for Fury, right?!

Does that mean Fury's assertion that he is going to knock out Wilder all smoke and mirrors, or is that a possibility if Wilder steams in early, gets complacent and then gets tagged?

TwisT wrote:    

Noble-Surfer wrote:
   If Wilder hadn't scored the two knockdowns in the first fight, you'd have to assume the decision would have gone Fury's way, right? Fury was out after the second knockdown, but still beat the count- so that must have played a large part in awarding the draw.

   Fury may well be even more dominant this time round, but I don't think he necessarily needs to be, in order to get the win. He just(!) needs to avoid getting tagged by a big right from Wilder. Ignore the two knockdowns from the first fight, and there's no way you get anything other than a UD for Fury, right?!

Does that mean Fury's assertion that he is going to knock out Wilder all smoke and mirrors, or is that a possibility if Wilder steams in early, gets complacent and then gets tagged?

I guess it's always a possibility, but I certainly don't expect Fury to come in looking for the knockout.

Noble-Surfer wrote:I thought he won the first fight despite the two knockdowns- felt he was in complete control of the ring. Likelihood is he will be better prepared for this fight, so I think he'll be able to avoid/ negate Wilder's big punch, and for all his talk of needing a knockout- I think that's just in hope of distracting Wilder. Comfortable UD for Fury.

As I alluded to in my earlier post, I expect Fury's gameplan this time round to be largely the same as it was in the first fight- with the emphasis on ensuring he keeps full concentration throughout the fight- and avoiding any big right-hands from Wilder. If it all goes Fury's way, and he manages the fight successfully, landing on Wilder at will, and avoiding anything meaningful in return, I guess he could go looking for a late stoppage, but I'm not expecting that. If Wilder has any fear of Fury's power/ getting knocked out, it might make him more cautious, and less likely to throw those wild bombs- which would play perfectly to Fury's gameplan from their first fight.

Of course, I could be completely wrong, and Fury does go looking for the knockout from the first bell...

Just a slight deviation from the topic, but what sort of Tyson win would mean a straight Joshua v Fury bout next?

Because I can't see there not being a 3rd fight, unless Tyson does what he says and knocks Wilder out early. Even then you could argue Wilder deserves a chance to a rematch straight away (like Joshua did with Ruiz)

Joshua needs Fury more than vice versa after his two embarrassing fights with the lottery winning slob...

Joshua vs Stiff has limited mileage even with the loyal British supporters who would pay £20 to watch Joshua vs the local butcher.....Hearn knows it..

Fury beats Wilder he should ask for 60/40..

However 12 rounds is a long time and as Fury boxed a clinic last time and ended up on his backside you have to think a less 'Naive' Wilder will be better prepared....

Can Fury improve on his last performance ??..No

Can Wilder ??...Yes.

Wilder by Ko...

Can an overweight and unprepared Fury improve? Yes
Can a no ability slugger Wilder improve? No

We'll see...

I find this a hard fight to call. Both fighters you would think will be better prepared. Fury physically and Wilder being better prepared for Fury’s style.

I am leaning towards Wilder KO. Fury didn’t look great in his last fight and got bust up a bit. So is he going to be that much better? Wilder although not the best chin didn’t have much issue with fury’s punches so fancy him to gamble more and get to him by 8th.

Having said all that I wouldn't touch this fight at the bookies with a barge pole.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:However 12 rounds is a long time and as Fury boxed a clinic last time and ended up on his backside you have to think a less 'Naive' Wilder will be better prepared....

Can Fury improve on his last performance ??..No

Can Wilder ??...Yes.

Wilder by Ko...

Improvements I think Fury can make:

- Fitness/ conditioning: I think this is the main improvement Fury can & will have made since their first fight. Although he's never going to have the physique of Anthony Joshua, he's clearly a natural athlete. But there's no doubt he wasn't in great shape for their first fight- a couple of years out of the ring, living a wild lifestyle which involved substance abuse- never going to leave you in the best state physically, let alone mentally. Assuming he is preparing well for this fight in terms of training & lifestyle, you would expect a significant improvement on what was already very good in their first fight (despite the flabby appearance).

- Strength/ power: Possibly the area Fury is weakest on (pun intended)..? I would expect this to be improved as it takes time to build up strength & power- and he has had the time to do this in preparation for this fight. While I do think there's a bit of gamesmanship going on with his claims that he's going to knock Wilder out, I would also expect him to have improved this aspect, and expect a bit more venom in his punches. Although I doubt he'll ever have that one punch knockout power, this is something that you can learn/ build through training, and can improve significantly on.

- Strategy: While I expect Fury to largely implement the same gameplan/ strategy, I also expect him to have added a few tricks/ ideas to his arsenal since the first fight, to keep Wilder guessing, and wouldn't be surprised to see him switching between a few strategies during the fight.

Improvements I think Wilder can make:

- Strategy: Wilder's strategy is to land that monster right however and whenever he can... Don't know that he has the ability to do anything differently, but then I guess he hasn't needed to so far. But if Fury manages to avoid/ negate that this time round, I don't see what else Wilder has that can trouble him. Wilder may be less naive this time in that he will be ready for Fury's movement & awkward style, but I don't know how much he can actually do to combat it...?

From BBC Sport, Fury has been quoted as saying:

"Wilder can't beat me on points, it's not possible. This is Las Vegas, not Los Angeles."

Whereas I can see where he is coming from, if Wilder keeps knocking him down during the fight then he is going to lose rounds regardless of how slick he is. If there was a 3rd knock down in one of the other rounds, then Wilder would have won.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Joshua needs Fury more than vice versa after his two embarrassing fights with the lottery winning slob...

Joshua vs Stiff has limited mileage even with the loyal British supporters who would pay £20 to watch Joshua vs the local butcher.....Hearn knows it..

Fury beats Wilder he should ask for 60/40..

However 12 rounds is a long time and as Fury boxed a clinic last time and ended up on his backside you have to think a less 'Naive' Wilder will be better prepared....

Can Fury improve on his last performance ??..No

Can Wilder ??...Yes.

Wilder by Ko...

Ahh Truss you never change. Why don't you think a ringy rusty, overweight and you could even argue under prepared Fury improve?

In the last fight between them one judge scored it 115-111 to Wilder which means without the two knockdowns that judge would have scored the fight evens.

In terms of conditioning Fury should be a lot better since they last met, in terms of knowledge Wilder should be much better since they last met.  

Fury has to avoid being hit flush with a Wilder sleepmaker and to do that he needs to carry sufficient threat and weight with his own punches.  Fury's last fight against Otto Wallin was not that impressive and that is one of the reasons why he changed trainers for this fight, but Fury also has to be motivated for the fight and maybe he wasn't so much against Wallin.

Judging by the way Deontay Wilder handled the dangerous cuban Luis Ortiz second time round, he showed improvement - he wasn't hurt and knocked him out sooner.

I make the knockout artist Deontay Wilder favorite for this fight.  Kudos to Tyson Fury for yet again going into Wilder's backyard for the fight.

No name Bertie wrote:In the last fight between them one judge scored it 115-111 to Wilder which means without the two knockdowns that judge would have scored the fight evens.

In terms of conditioning Fury should be a lot better since they last met, in terms of knowledge Wilder should be much better since they last met.  

Fury has to avoid being hit flush with a Wilder sleepmaker and to do that he needs to carry sufficient threat and weight with his own punches.  Fury's last fight against Otto Wallin was not that impressive and that is one of the reasons why he changed trainers for this fight, but Fury also has to be motivated for the fight and maybe he wasn't so much against Wallin.

Judging by the way Deontay Wilder handled the dangerous cuban Luis Ortiz second time round, he showed improvement - he wasn't hurt and knocked him out sooner.

I make the knockout artist Deontay Wilder favorite for this fight.  Kudos to Tyson Fury for yet again going into Wilder's backyard for the fight.

How so with regards to the judging?

The second point is that Ortiz was in more command during the second fight than he was the first, he was undone by one hail mary shot.

Soul Requiem wrote:

No name Bertie wrote:In the last fight between them one judge scored it 115-111 to Wilder which means without the two knockdowns that judge would have scored the fight evens.

In terms of conditioning Fury should be a lot better since they last met, in terms of knowledge Wilder should be much better since they last met.  

Fury has to avoid being hit flush with a Wilder sleepmaker and to do that he needs to carry sufficient threat and weight with his own punches.  Fury's last fight against Otto Wallin was not that impressive and that is one of the reasons why he changed trainers for this fight, but Fury also has to be motivated for the fight and maybe he wasn't so much against Wallin.

Judging by the way Deontay Wilder handled the dangerous cuban Luis Ortiz second time round, he showed improvement - he wasn't hurt and knocked him out sooner.

I make the knockout artist Deontay Wilder favorite for this fight.  Kudos to Tyson Fury for yet again going into Wilder's backyard for the fight.

How so with regards to the judging?

The second point is that Ortiz was in more command during the second fight than he was the first, he was undone by one hail mary shot.

One hail mary seems a bit harsh. Two jabs, then a pause then left and big right. Timed beautifully and right on the money.

Nobdy expected Wilder to outbox Ortiz, just to try and land a big shot which he did and did very well. The same for Fury, nobdy is epxecting Wilder to out box but to try and land the big shot.

It's an interesting match up this as Fury has clearly shown he has the skill to bamboozle the limited Wilder. Think Wilders only chance is the knockout and if Fury is smart he can just keep away and potshot him all night. The biggest problem is that Wilder saw Fury get up from THAT punch which may be a big dent to his confidence. Hopefully gonna watch it but we'll see :-)

In much bigger news, Nathan Farrell is out again in a couple of weeks in Bolton (I think) (shows called rolling the dice 2) along with Reece Macmillan, if your about in the area then try and get tickets, it'll be a corker and I guarantee you that Nay in particular is gonna be massive

Anyone else stayed up for this then?

Managed to get a FOX stream so I don't have to put up with the dreadful BT coverage. Interesting that there is no neutral judge for this fight, 3 American judges

PaulHv2 wrote:Anyone else stayed up for this then?

Managed to get a FOX stream so I don't have to put up with the dreadful BT coverage. Interesting that there is no neutral judge for this fight, 3 American judges

Yeah I am staying up for this. I bought the fight. Even I am cheering on the Englishman Fury on this occasion

Fondura looks like a fighter who will get stopped pretty soon, takes good punches far too clean. His height will always cause opponents problems though.

Martin vs Washington to come before the main event, amazing to think that those two guys who really don't deserve another title shot are fighting for the mandatory slot, Adam Kownacki has fought and beaten both in the last 12 months but doesn't get a look in.

Anyone placed any bets?

I bet a fiver on Fury to go down but get up and win

I had a free bet of a pound so stuck it on another draw as unlikely as it is

No bets from me mate, can't decide who's going to win. Would love Fury to pull it off, gives the British fans a Wembley showdown with Joshua, can't see Wilder travelling for it sadly. But there's a big part of me that Fury might try and be a bit more reckless to win over the judges and if that happens I can see Wilder landing clean and often.

Fury has turned his camera off in the dressing room, he's been filmed messing around for the last hour but as they went to wrap his hands they unplugged the camera.

Not sure what Santisima had done to upset the referee but it seemed like he wanted him to get seriously hurt, could of stopped that fight several times over before the towel came in.

Martin stops Washington in the 6th, now mandatory for the IBF title. Lovely timed punch after making Washington miss.

Tyson Fury has just battered Wilder all over the ring. Trussman said before the fight that Wilder could get better but Fury couldn't, well tell you what that was a better Fury that I have seen before. He was on the front foot from the first bell, aggressive and dominated. Wilder didn't have a clue how to deal with someone bringing the fight to him and it has shown.

Very Very Impressive. Bar the right hand in the opening 20 seconds, Wilder didn't get a look in.

I expected a Fury win on points..possibly having to get up off the canvas again. Never expected that result their; despite the fact that Wilder has looked vulnerable in the past.

Rematch clause but surely Wilder won't get a look in for a 3rd fight...he was beaten in the first, despite the scorecards said, by a man who'd been 30stone and drinking and snorting cocaine for two years while clinically depressed.

Say what you want about the current era of the heavyweights, but Fury has gone to the backyards of the two most dominant Champions in the past 20 years and has beaten them both.

Great for boxing as he is an absolute character and the comeback story is simply remarkable. Testament to his will, skill and desire to get back to the top of the sport from where he found himself.

I thought Wilder looked worried from the start, very wide eyed and concerned.

Noble-Surfer wrote:Of course, I could be completely wrong, and Fury does go looking for the knockout from the first bell...

So, turns out I was completely wrong...

Certainly wasn't expecting that game plan from Fury, but credit to him, he was superb. Didn't put a foot wrong all fight, and just beat Wilder up.

I went for a Fury points victory or a Wilder victory by stoppage.
It just shows you how little i know

Hats off to Wilder for his post fight interview- very gracious in defeat.

Soul Requiem wrote:Can an overweight and unprepared Fury improve? Yes
Can a no ability slugger Wilder improve? No

Credit where it is due...

No ability slugger....think that sums it up. No real surprise for me. Fury pretty much did this in the first match, but just got caught late on. Done the same this time, but just looked fitter, sharper, and even more focused. Wilder, will, and will always be, a big hitting donkey, with no boxing brain, or any boxing technique. Good win for Fury, but Wilder has always been massively overhyped.

The first knock down in the third round was caused by a Fury right hand to the left side of the head of Wilder, that caused Wilder to start bleeding quite significantly from the left ear.  

That blow was similar to the blow that disorientated Anthony Joshua in his first fight against Andy Ruiz Jr in the third round that caused Joshua to be knocked down.  I think if Fury had landed those blows against Joshua, Joshua would not have lasted so long.  

In the end Wilder's defence coach corner man threw in the towel in the seventh round to allow Wilder to fight another day.  Wilder continued to bleed from his left ear ever since the third round knockdown and his defence trainer believed that Wilder was not going to mount any sort of recovery, particularly by the seventh, when Wilder looked exhausted, not mentally sharp, and vulnerable for more damage from Fury.

ps: let's not underestimate the danger Wilder posed to Fury. Wilder did hit Fury with a few concussive rights that might have knocked out quite a few others. But Fury somehow took them well. It is said that the first knock down in the third took away part of Wilder's balance and part of his power.

Absolute demolition job. No need for a third fight as Fury utterly obliterated the American.

Amazing how much Fury has improved. I remember watching him get a gift of a decision against McDermott a decade and a bit ago - difficult to envisage the same man would be the undisputed king of the division.

One more fight against Joshua at Wemberlee, before retirement?

Credit when it is due even to an Englishman...Fury was awesome and will beat his fellow Englishman in London no problems I think by TKO also

I just wish us Welshies had a decent fighter to cheer on. No chance of that though at the moment

I was astonished that neither Wilder nor his team appeared to have a plan B. Credit to Fury - he figured Wilder out and knew exactly what to do. It wasn't pretty but it was effective. Wilder looked done after 5 rounds. I am amazed that he lasted so long. But there is no point in a 3rd fight now as it was such a comprehensive beatdown.

Sounds like they're looking to get the Joshua fight done.

Plan B is useless if you can't get your legs under you. Don't think it helped Wilder mentally when Fury took two flush right hands and walked through them.

Regarding the Joshua fight, have to feel a little for Whyte. Been mandatory for ages but doesn't look to be getting his shot anytime soon.

You have to have some boxing ability to have a plan b, something Wilder is lacking.

I'll take back all I said about Fury not punching his weight and I don't think Wilder will be in a hurry to fight him again unless it's just for another big pay day. Twice Fury has proved me wrong, the first fight when he got off the floor in the twelfth round and this last fight when he was aggressive from the word go and dominated Wilder. On that showing I would struggle to pick a winner when he meets Joshua.

rapidringsroad wrote:I'll take back all I said about Fury not punching his weight and I don't think Wilder will be in a hurry to fight him again unless it's just for another big pay day. Twice Fury has proved me wrong, the first fight when he got off the floor in the twelfth round and this last fight when he was aggressive from the word go and dominated Wilder. On that showing I would struggle to pick a winner when he meets Joshua.

Really? On last night's showing, I find it really hard to find a case for Joshua winning... Fury can box from Range (Wlad), or he can mix it up & be the aggressor (Wilder II).

We know Joshua can bang, but we knew Wilder could bang. Fury survived that in the first fight, and negated it completely in the second fight. Although Joshua arguably has better 'regular' technique than Wilder, I don't think he has the ability to mix it up when things aren't going his own way. Certainly not to the standard that Fury does. I think Fury's speed & movement would be too much for Joshua...

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:Can an overweight and unprepared Fury improve? Yes
Can a no ability slugger Wilder improve? No

Credit where it is due...

To be fair it was blindingly obvious.

Wilder in his four fights with Fury and Ortiz has barely won a round, the guy can punch that's for sure but does rely solely on landing that one big punch. Luis Ortiz will be kicking himself for not stepping it up in either fight.

A lot is being made of this victory and rightly so from Furys point of view, he was superb but aside from the American aspect it's a less significant win than Klitschko and a less significant fight than one with AJ. Fury rightly a reasonable favourite to beat AJ but it's a different fight altogether against someone who can box and someone who can fight to a different gameplan, I make it a 50/50 myself.

The criticism of Mark Breland is absurd, Wilder had two trainers on Saturday; one thinking about his long term health and the other thinking only of himself.

Soul Requiem wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:Can an overweight and unprepared Fury improve? Yes
Can a no ability slugger Wilder improve? No

Credit where it is due...

To be fair it was blindingly obvious..

Sadly predictable response...

Fury was in a completely different class in this fight. Wilder was bamboozled from the get go and couldn't cope. Looked out of it from about round 4 and was lucky not to get it stopped. Ref was awful and seemed to try and give Wilder as much breathing space as possible but then again we knew that was gonna happen. Has anybody seen what the judges scorecards were yet?
Could be a 3rd bout but i'm not sure if there's any point and or if Wilder will want it, but Fury's got a point about big trilogies. I like AJ but can't see anything but a Fury Victory. Shown Against Wlad he's a better boxer and Shown with Wilder he can take the power, AJ's definitely not technically better than Wlad and doesn't have the power of a Wilder. Very interesting and will be massive but probably in Saudi, cause Frak the British fans you know

I read it was 59/52 on two scorecards, and 58-53 on a third, all in favour of Fury (of course).

Derbymanc wrote:Fury was in a completely different class in this fight. Wilder was bamboozled from the get go and couldn't cope. Looked out of it from about round 4 and was lucky not to get it stopped. Ref was awful and seemed to try and give Wilder as much breathing space as possible but then again we knew that was gonna happen. Has anybody seen what the judges scorecards were yet?
Could be a 3rd bout but i'm not sure if there's any point and or if Wilder will want it, but Fury's got a point about big trilogies. I like AJ but can't see anything but a Fury Victory. Shown Against Wlad he's a better boxer and Shown with Wilder he can take the power, AJ's definitely not technically better than Wlad and doesn't have the power of a Wilder. Very interesting and will be massive but probably in Saudi, cause Frak the British fans you know

Judge: Glenn Feldman 53-58
Judge: Dave Moretti 52-59
Judge: Steve Weisfeld 52-59

Not sure how Feldman had Wilder winning a round.

It's not about having the power of Wilder, it's about having the ability to consistently land round after round and soften up your opponent. Wilder has more one punch power than AJ but doesn't the same cumulative effect because he doesn't land enough and that is getting ignored a lot, AJ also a wider variety of punches and a half decent jab.