Silly Season Transfer Rumours 19/20

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mikey_dragon wrote:It’s an unfortunate coincidence I think, but his injury record was exemplary before he linked up with Bath.

His last lengthy injury was a collarbone issue suffered in a Wales training camp. Probably a bit of a mixed bag. It's hard once you start getting injuries to get out of the cycle as often one leads to another, Falatau managed to break the same arm some four or five months apart. Something Billy Vunipola managed as well.

I think Carlos is right. With the financial squeeze clubs are going to look for more value for money and less marquee names. Johnny May certainly found that when he went to discuss his new contract as did Ben Youngs.

Sounding like Dai Young might be Cardiff's next head coach.

king_carlos wrote:Sounding like Dai Young might be Cardiff's next head coach.

Yeah, no surprise really, I guess. I wonder how long term it will be. I guess ultimately they could use somebody like him to work Dwayne Peel towards a Head Coach role.

RiscaGame wrote:

king_carlos wrote:Sounding like Dai Young might be Cardiff's next head coach.

Yeah, no surprise really, I guess. I wonder how long term it will be. I guess ultimately they could use somebody like him to work Dwayne Peel towards a Head Coach role.

They would make sense as a team for sure. Similar to the setup Young had at Wasps first with Stephen Jones, then with Lee Blackett.

Congrats on the mod appointment by the way Risca! 

Dai Young to Cardiff seems like the people's choice. A good coach but I would still be a little sceptical, the guy had a decade with a rich Wasps team and didn't win anything. They played good rugby, and they're doing well now but is that because he left or because of the foundations he put in place (if any)? Unless Cardiff sort out their internal issues and flex their budget, it's just going to be the same old. Criminal really. As Wilson said upon his departure, the good players are there but more signings are needed to help them grow - that didn't happen.

mikey_dragon wrote:Dai Young to Cardiff seems like the people's choice. A good coach but I would still be a little sceptical, the guy had a decade with a rich Wasps team and didn't win anything. They played good rugby, and they're doing well now but is that because he left or because of the foundations he put in place (if any)? Unless Cardiff sort out their internal issues and flex their budget, it's just going to be the same old. Criminal really. As Wilson said upon his departure, the good players are there but more signings are needed to help them grow - that didn't happen.

Largely I'd agree that Young's teams flattered to deceive in big games but worth noting he also inherited a disastrous setup in the wake of Geech and Edwards moving on. Then for the latter half of his reign Sarries were playing with a different rule book to their competitors. So some mitigating circumstances, plus Wasps still undoubtedly improved as a team and survived the move to Coventry whilst Young was DOR. So he definitely did a huge amount for them as a club.

The Sarries point probably hurts particularly for Young given that Wasps lost Billy V, Daly and Lozowski to them whilst he was in charge.

Dai Young took over Wasps at a low ebb and rebuilt the team keeping Wasps together in the financial turmoil pre move to Coventry. Wasps aren't rich and I think are pretty much financed to the hilt. Dai's influence started to fade in the last season or two. I think he and the club both needed fresh impetus. 

Having said that I agree with what's already been said with them lacking that clinical edge that would take them onto winning silverware.

Oh yeah he definitely did well to get them back up to a top 4 team. I do believe that's a little easier when you have Wasps resources though. I realise Sarries and Exeter among others are good teams I just think he could have done a little better. He spent a few years at Cardiff and it took a while for them to do anything - with possible what was their golden generation team of the pro era.

I'm not sure we see this often in rugby, where a coach returns to a role that he left? Him and Wilson have been their best coaches though, that's a fact.

formerly known as Sam wrote:Dai Young took over Wasps at a low ebb and rebuilt the team keeping Wasps together in the financial turmoil pre move to Coventry. Wasps aren't rich and I think are pretty much financed to the hilt. Dai's influence started to fade in the last season or two. I think he and the club both needed fresh impetus. 

Having said that I agree with what's already been said with them lacking that clinical edge that would take them onto winning silverware.

Wasps are rich, Beale and Sopoaga didn't come over for peanuts. Not as rich as Sarries....

It's a good point re wasps progress under young being stalled somewhat due to saracens cheating. Wasps did well for a number of years under young but lost key guys. Certainly went a bit downhill at the end but the foundations certainly seemmstringngiven what Blackett has done. Personally rate Young highly.

mikey_dragon wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:Dai Young took over Wasps at a low ebb and rebuilt the team keeping Wasps together in the financial turmoil pre move to Coventry. Wasps aren't rich and I think are pretty much financed to the hilt. Dai's influence started to fade in the last season or two. I think he and the club both needed fresh impetus. 

Having said that I agree with what's already been said with them lacking that clinical edge that would take them onto winning silverware.

Wasps are rich, Beale and Sopoaga didn't come over for peanuts. Not as rich as Sarries....

That was post the move to Coventry. Before the move to Coventry they were under serious financial pressure.  Even after moving it's all been built on sand.

https://coventryobserver.co.uk/news/exclusive-enforcement-action-taken-over-wasps-late-accounts/

They've always splashed the cash on front line players but have lacked depth and looked to the academy.

Have mixed feelings about the strong possibility of Dai Young rejoining us, although there’s more positives than negatives. At least the (useless) Cardiff board haven’t announced that they will scour the world for the best coach, which ended up last time with Mulvihills appointment. To be fair to Mulvihill, he had his assistant coaches chosen for him, and lately a dearth of injuries to contend with. He was on a hiding to nothing. He didn’t help himself tho, with bizarre selections etc. Wont get that with Dai Young, and we may finally see some front 5 recruitment and hopefully get rid of some deadwood.

Blueschief wrote:Have mixed feelings about the strong possibility of Dai Young rejoining us, although there’s more positives than negatives. At least the (useless) Cardiff board haven’t announced that they will scour the world for the best coach, which ended up last time with Mulvihills appointment. To be fair to Mulvihill, he had his assistant coaches chosen for him, and lately a dearth of injuries to contend with. He was on a hiding to nothing. He didn’t help himself tho, with bizarre selections etc. Wont get that with Dai Young, and we may finally see some front 5 recruitment and hopefully get rid of some deadwood.

Dead wood sounds about right. Who would you prefer to see go? It might be a big call for some but personally I would wave on Turnbull and Robinson. I don't feel either are required despite the fact they're decent. If both go, you could get at least one lock. Hopefully not Rowlands... The backs and back-row is full of talent. I'd say three or four personnel are needed in the front 5, ones who can step in and do the job right away.

Dai Young announced as interim coach for Cardiff, I guess that answers one question. No doubt both will seek to make it a permanent appointment, hopefully Dai tells them how it is before agreeing to sign a long-term deal.

Looks like Dragons have signed Joe Thomas too, not wanted or needed.... unless he’s a good defender at 13. Roberts is the man in the midfield, hopefully we’re looking at how to replace him when he finally hangs up his boots.

mikey_dragon wrote:Looks like Dragons have signed Joe Thomas too, not wanted or needed.... unless he’s a good defender at 13. Roberts is the man in the midfield, hopefully we’re looking at how to replace him when he finally hangs up his boots.

Is that former Tiger Joe Thomas? A solid centre bit little more. Hands, speed, positioning and tackling were all good but not great. A little anonymous ball in hand. Barely played though, if given a run of games might show more.

Yeah it's him. He came in on a 'trial' a while back. I'm guessing Warren is injured, and Tompkins is soon to be off with team Wales.

Warren was long term injured from the Treviso win. Had an op on his groin.

I get why we’ve signed Joe Thomas, but he can’t have impressed on his trial too much, if he hasn’t yet featured. He wasn’t even named on our squad page earlier. The Argus hasn’t even mentioned it either. It clearly is to cover 13, but I think Ryan will go Roberts and Dixon still, where he can (in the absence of Tompkins).

It's a shame that Jack Roberts time with Cardiff was wrecked by injury. When he left Tigers I thought Roberts could be a really useful club level centre. A Mark Atkinson or Bill Meakes type midfielder that would put in consistently useful performances. He was a pocket rocket when fit, so powerful wee such a small player.

Yeah, I did like the clips I saw of him.

Yeah I was a bit surprised when Jack Roberts ended up back in the Championship. He had a bit of pace and power and was a good club level player.

If he can play 13 then a Welsh team would find him useful.

I’ve just seen on Twitter (I think the RP may be running with it?), that Ospreys are signing Tomas Francis and Jac Morgan (Scarlets). Scarlets are apparently leading the race to sign Will Griff John.

Yeah seem that too, good signings. I didn’t think Francis wanted to move but ya know, 60 cap rule and all that. Scarlets need to dump James Davies and bring in Thomas Young too. Cardiff will bid for Rowlands now that Dai Young is in charge, watch this space.

Kieran Brookes to Toulon. It would be a big blow for Wasps but I wouldn’t blame him for cashing in.

Zach Mercer to Montpellier according to the Mail.

king_carlos wrote:Zach Mercer to Montpellier according to the Mail.

Would be a bit of a surprise given hes getting plenty of time at 8 despite faletau being there.

No 7&1/2 wrote:

king_carlos wrote:Zach Mercer to Montpellier according to the Mail.

Would be a bit of a surprise given hes getting plenty of time at 8 despite faletau being there.

Presumably being out of the England frame he's decided to take the chance to experience a different culture and earn some cash.

He'd be a big loss to Bath IMO. Faletau and Underhill are quality international but miss a lot of club rugby and have a tendency to perform better for country than club. Mercer is very consistent for Bath and fulfills several key roles with his frequent carrying, receiving kick offs very well and being a leader.

I thought Mercer's form slipped slightly when he first bulked up but he's evolved his game quickly and impressed me the last couple of Bath games I watched. He's got a good all round game and I think it'd be a shame if he never gains another England cap.

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:Kieran Brookes to Toulon. It would be a big blow for Wasps but I wouldn’t blame him for cashing in.

Toulon's quality of signings have fallen off a cliff bar a couple of high profile ones, since they won their 3rd HC. Which is interesting.

No 7&1/2 wrote:

king_carlos wrote:Zach Mercer to Montpellier according to the Mail.

Would be a bit of a surprise given hes getting plenty of time at 8 despite faletau being there.

Been doing the rounds for a while. Not going to be in the England set-up until after the RWC2023 barring Eddie Jones having a big change of heart and summer tours. If it is for two years, might as well get the pay bump and live in Southern France before returning.

Montpellier though have a history of breaking the wage cap in France without much success. Johan Goosen is expected to move and Bismarck Du Plessis is expected to retire so there should be some money available, Picamoles is 35 in Feb so Mercer is a natural successor.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:Kieran Brookes to Toulon. It would be a big blow for Wasps but I wouldn’t blame him for cashing in.

Toulon's quality of signings have fallen off a cliff bar a couple of high profile ones, since they won their 3rd HC. Which is interesting.

Perhaps they have, yet looking at their side on wiki and they have a French dominated pack and both Carbonel and Belleau at fly half. If anything, the centres and back three could do with a signing or two but it is all relative.

Hazel Sapling wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:Kieran Brookes to Toulon. It would be a big blow for Wasps but I wouldn’t blame him for cashing in.

Toulon's quality of signings have fallen off a cliff bar a couple of high profile ones, since they won their 3rd HC. Which is interesting.

Perhaps they have, yet looking at their side on wiki and they have a French dominated pack and both Carbonel and Belleau at fly half. If anything, the centres and back three could do with a signing or two but it is all relative.

I don’t know, their team still looks pretty good. Very big pack too. I doubt we’ll see another club team like that European cup winning team though.

mikey_dragon wrote:Yeah seem that too, good signings. I didn’t think Francis wanted to move but ya know, 60 cap rule and all that. Scarlets need to dump James Davies and bring in Thomas Young too. Cardiff will bid for Rowlands now that Dai Young is in charge, watch this space.

Francis could hit 60 caps if he plays every 6N game and then all the summer internationals. At 28 he should be in his prime so I'd expect he's looking for a pretty substantial contract which Chiefs might be struggling to squeeze under the cap.

Bringing in Thomas Young wouldn't be a bad idea but it's a year late. He signed a new deal with Wasps who were gleefully happy that no Welsh region put anything on the table. Every week he has a good game.

Brookes to France makes sense. There's a lower expectation on fitness and that will fit with his style of one interaction with play every three phases. When he turns up he's a decent all rounder. Can't blame him if he gets a 3 year deal on good money in the South of France, he's 30 and the opportunity for big contracts is going to reduce over the next couple of years.

Kieran Brookes to Toulon. What a joke. Hes a lazy fat waste of space. Would NEVER be welcomed back up at KP.

Apparently Mike Brown to Falcons is a done deal for 2 years.

I don't think Brookes would be welcomed back to Tigers either but his form the last 18 months for Wasps has been really solid to be fair. He's been keeping Toomaga-Allen out the starting lineup as well so has competition.

Brown could be a good signing for Falcons. It's an area that needs strengthening and him not being the quickest shouldn't be an issue with the young wingers alongside him. His highball work, defense and kicking are still rock solid.

We have another 3 young back 3 players as good as Stevenson and Radwan coming through..i wonder if he might have some coaching role aswell?

I see rumours if Tommy Taylor to Sale aswell..

GeordieFalcon wrote:We have another 3 young back 3 players as good as Stevenson and Radwan coming through..i wonder if he might have some coaching role aswell?

He'd be a good mentor and back three skills coach. His kicking and work under the high ball are rock solid so is he can pass them onto hot stepping speedsters they'll be some players.

Wouldn't have Brookes back at Tigers. His commitment during his time at the club is probably best shown by the fact a local restaurant named a breakfast eating challenge after him because he liked coming in to eat it during his rehab period. Cockers was rumoured to be apoplectic over how much weight he put on whilst injured with his rehab period taking quite a while. As Ellis Genge said during a game after getting a penalty from Brookes at the scrum "how the f*ck did you play for England".

Francis playing in every single game between now and his 60th cap is unlikely. Going by what he’s said in the past I would be surprised if he is leaving Exeter by choice. If needs be I always pictured him doing a one-year deal similar to Tompkins, during which time he could gain more caps. Either way it’s great for Ospreys and just what they need. I didn’t picture them going for Jac Morgan, they must not rate his Ospreys team-mates who featured in the same U20s team.

Young shouldn’t be ineligible if nobody offered him a deal, so I’d like to see him involved this 6N. Pivac will likely make a few more howler selections though, and probably go for James Davies over him... Such a great position of strength for Wales.

Brookes was good when he played for Newcastle, what happened? He’s been playing well for Wasps actually. He won’t feature as much for Toulon. Wasps have another two decent TH’s so probably won’t mind.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Kieran Brookes to Toulon.  What a joke. Hes a lazy fat waste of space. Would NEVER be welcomed back up at KP.  

Apparently Mike Brown to Falcons is a done deal for 2 years.

KB has changed shape this season the s & c boys at Wasps have done a great job & Brookes has been part of a solid front 5 at Wasps. His game has transformed.

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Kieran Brookes to Toulon.  What a joke. Hes a lazy fat waste of space. Would NEVER be welcomed back up at KP.  

Apparently Mike Brown to Falcons is a done deal for 2 years.

KB has changed shape this season the s & c boys at Wasps have done a great job & Brookes has been part of a solid front 5 at Wasps. His game has transformed.

It was similar to his time with Falcons actually. He was in great shape when first started out but was never more than a max 60min prop. When he came back from Tigers he was a real mess and took a good year to get back into some real form and shape.....and then he dumped us again for Saints.

When on form, he was very good, certainly deserving of his England caps. Sometimes a player just doesn't suit a certain club.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Kieran Brookes to Toulon.  What a joke. Hes a lazy fat waste of space. Would NEVER be welcomed back up at KP.  

Apparently Mike Brown to Falcons is a done deal for 2 years.

KB has changed shape this season the s & c boys at Wasps have done a great job & Brookes has been part of a solid front 5 at Wasps. His game has transformed.

It was similar to his time with Falcons actually. He was in great shape when first started out but was never more than a max 60min prop. When he came back from Tigers he was a real mess and took a good year to get back into some real form and shape.....and then he dumped us again for Saints.

When on form, he was very good, certainly deserving of his England caps. Sometimes a player just doesn't suit a certain club.

Fair enough but I haven’t spoken to a Wasps who isn’t desperate to keep hold of him.
The Wasps coaches seem to be getting the best out of their players this last year.
The front row of West, Cruse & Brookes have been superb for us against many much vaunted opposing scrums.

Pretty sure I was at a Falcons game years ago when Brookes first appeared, and he knocked Serge Betsen straight on his backside with a strong carry.

Not sure if that wasnt the highlight of his career for a good few years.

Yes the Wasps front row does perform much better this season. Helps having both Launchbury and Rowlands in the row behind, that's a lot of pushing power. Blaze seems to have done a good job with the Wasps forwards, really tightened up their set pieces.

MT, Brookes has always been capable of a big carry the problem is he tends to disappear for several phases after that.

Im not questioning his ability when he is in peak shape...hes clearly a good player in that situation..im questioning his attitude.

Falcons fans feel particularly strongly that he just used us. He was quick to jump ship twice from us despite us getting him to his peak both times.

Apparently theres some other link about CHris Ashton following Brown up here...not sure if thats legit or not.

That one would seem odd with all the good young wingers Falcons have.

Yeah...brown i could understand with the intent of him in a coaching role (which seems to be the case now) but why bring Ashton. We have some great young wingers...who Brown could work with , and also Cooper Vuna and Arscott...who can cover wing.

Even talented centre Wakecoke can cover wing if required.

But then we said the same about Goneva...and that worked out not bad...

Tomas Francis signs for Ospreys, three year contract. Pretty big one.

i wonder if Exeter are going to have a bit of a clear out...freshen things up a bit?

GeordieFalcon wrote:i wonder if Exeter are going to have a bit of a clear out...freshen things up a bit?

They've got a lot of squad depth for the new £5m salary cap. For the 2022/23 season the league drops to 1 marquee player so all clubs will be planning for that as well.

One thing to consider is that 'home grown academy players' don't count towards the cap and the max salary for an 'academy player' is going up to £50k from £30k. So I suspect a lot of clubs will be trying to use their academy more for squad depth. Marcus Street for instance would qualify as a 'home grown academy player' for next season. So if he's earning £50k or less wouldn't count towards the cap but is already a solid tighthead with a lot of potential.