The Covid-19 serious chat thread

[JuliusHMarx]

First topic message reminder :

Self-isolating, social distancing, locked down thread split.

[jimbopip]

Well here's a turn up for the books

For the first time ever I have written to my MP.

It was a very polite message in which I expressed my views of the Dominic Cummings affair and asked that he shared his position on the matter as this would help me, and my family, make an informed choice when voting in future.

I'll let you know how this develops.

[tigertattie]

Fcukwittery at its highest

The whole "we're in this together" is right out the window.

The lockdown was meant to be what was good for the greater public at large. Now we've been given a clear message that it's every man or woman for themselves and thier family. To hell with anyone else, do what you think is needed to best serve your own needs.

[Duty281]

Well here's a turn up for the books

For the first time ever I have written to my MP.

It was  a very polite message in which I expressed my views of the Dominic Cummings affair and asked that he shared his position on the matter as this would help me, and my family, make an informed choice when voting in future.

I'll let you know how this develops.

Hope you're ready for a generic, copy-and-paste response, delivered by some caseworker.

[123456789.]

As a general enquiry, has anyone else seen a tangible difference in lockdown after this weekend (even prior to the loosening announcements)?

I’ve seen groups of 10+ people who evidently don’t live together out walking. When people are stopping to chat out and about they aren’t keeping two metres now. I don’t know anyone where I’m based now as I made the decision to stay at my parents new home for lockdown so am loathe to start political debates with strangers (in person at least) but there’s been more than a few allusions to ‘you know who’ in passing conversations with otherwise genial people. This is most definitely a Tory safe seat as well.

The cynic in me reckons that the Dear Leader has figured this trend. I suspect his MPs have passed that information on. Despite the fact we are one of the few countries in the world that still has deaths in the hundreds we’ve left lockdown. I do wonder if he’s merely playing catch up to appear in control of the situation.

[Duty281]

The FT are reporting today that the UK has the highest excess death toll per capita amongst comparable countries. Way ahead of every other country in Europe. I suspect that the likes of San Marino may be ahead of us still admittedly but it's still a damning indictment. We seem to have been landed with a fairly useless generation of politicians for well over a decade now. Thankfully, on both sides, there seems to be green shoots of recovery. If only the Tories could get rid of Johnson and Gove.

A lot of deaths are going unrecorded throughout Europe, mostly in care homes, while the UK government is actually being quite transparent and thorough with the figures. Some other countries, like China, are just flat-out lying.

So it's difficult to get a true sense of the death toll per capita until after this thing has gone away.

[123456789.]

The FT are reporting today that the UK has the highest excess death toll per capita amongst comparable countries. Way ahead of every other country in Europe. I suspect that the likes of San Marino may be ahead of us still admittedly but it's still a damning indictment. We seem to have been landed with a fairly useless generation of politicians for well over a decade now. Thankfully, on both sides, there seems to be green shoots of recovery. If only the Tories could get rid of Johnson and Gove.

A lot of deaths are going unrecorded throughout Europe, mostly in care homes, while the UK government is actually being quite transparent and thorough with the figures. Some other countries, like China, are just flat-out lying.

So it's difficult to get a true sense of the death toll per capita until after this thing has gone away.

The stats are based on excess deaths rather than recorded Covid-19 deaths. So our official death toll is around 36,000 I think. The number of deaths above what would have been expected in this time period is around 60,000.

https://www.ft.com/content/6b4c784e-c259-4ca4-9a82-648ffde71bf0

The article is free to read.

[tigertattie]

The FT are reporting today that the UK has the highest excess death toll per capita amongst comparable countries. Way ahead of every other country in Europe. I suspect that the likes of San Marino may be ahead of us still admittedly but it's still a damning indictment. We seem to have been landed with a fairly useless generation of politicians for well over a decade now. Thankfully, on both sides, there seems to be green shoots of recovery. If only the Tories could get rid of Johnson and Gove.

.... and Mogg and Davis and Raab and Patel and.........

[123456789.]

The FT are reporting today that the UK has the highest excess death toll per capita amongst comparable countries. Way ahead of every other country in Europe. I suspect that the likes of San Marino may be ahead of us still admittedly but it's still a damning indictment. We seem to have been landed with a fairly useless generation of politicians for well over a decade now. Thankfully, on both sides, there seems to be green shoots of recovery. If only the Tories could get rid of Johnson and Gove.

.... and Mogg and Davis and Raab and Patel and.........

...and Corbyn and Abbott and Swinson and Hunt and Goldsmith and Sturgeon and...

I'd keep Mark Francois around for the comedic value

[lostinwales]

The FT are reporting today that the UK has the highest excess death toll per capita amongst comparable countries. Way ahead of every other country in Europe. I suspect that the likes of San Marino may be ahead of us still admittedly but it's still a damning indictment. We seem to have been landed with a fairly useless generation of politicians for well over a decade now. Thankfully, on both sides, there seems to be green shoots of recovery. If only the Tories could get rid of Johnson and Gove.

A lot of deaths are going unrecorded throughout Europe, mostly in care homes, while the UK government is actually being quite transparent and thorough with the figures. Some other countries, like China, are just flat-out lying.

So it's difficult to get a true sense of the death toll per capita until after this thing has gone away.

The FT figures are not based on recorded covid deaths, but instead overall recorded rates vs stats for the same period in other years. Under those criteria the worst per capita death rate in countries with reliable data is Spain, with us as a close second - and without doubt we have the highest numbers in Europe in absolute terms.

You are quite correct that we have to be cautious about the numbers and how they compare for a whole host of reasons. I suspect that, for instance, Iran numbers are worse. But all this is secondary to the simple fact that however you look at the numbers our performance has been appalling. The only thing that was managed well was ICU in NHS hostpitals - in that we never got to the making decisions over who got the ventilator stage like they had in Spain and Italy. Even then that achievement has only been reached at great cost, both in NHS staff (PPE scandal) and of course deaths in care homes.

[tigertattie]

Jesus wept it didn’t take long eh

Watching reporting Scotland. Interviewing a Gran who is a manager of a care home who is about to see her grandkid for the first time in 10 weeks.

Asked if she’ll keep the 2m distance, yes she said. Bairn turns up, bairn gets hugged. How can you stop yourself hugging a grandchild??? But you’re the manager of a care home, after hugging the child you’re going to be going back into the home and there’s at risk people in there!

[jimbopip]

tigertattie, I took a load of garden waste to the dump yesterday. They were very organised with staff at the entrance and exits communicating by walkie talkie. As I was taking my stuff to the bin I passed the chap monitoring the exit just as a colleague came to let him go for his lunch break. I heard the new guy ask if he could have the radio. Now these guys were sitting in the hot sun with the radio no more than three inches away from their faces. You could almost see the sweat and condensed breath gleaming on it. As I was leaving I said to the chap that he really should be provided with his own radio, or anti bac wipes to clean it if they passed it from person to person. he explained they didn't have any more but it was alright because they were all washing their hands as often as possible. People, on my limited observations, seem to be giving up on social distancing and no taking the Stay Safe message that seriously anymore.
I give it three/four weeks before the second wave begins.
Also, while surfing on my smarttellybox I stumbled across a clip from the FT: they had asked their legal correspondent to examine the text of Dominic Cumming's press conference. he went through it in forensic detail and concluded; it doesn't read like someone retelling their account of the events, it reads like a carefully drafted witness statement. It is laid out inprecise order and at every step seeks to prove that each action was justified as reasonable. The use of "reasonable " in Boris' support for him reinforces the sense that everything about his press conference was drafted and rehearsed with the lawyers playing an important role. It stinks to high heaven.

[tigertattie]

I just don’t get it jimbo. It’s the selfishness of it all. 10 weeks of pretty rotten living will be in vain if a second spike comes along all because folk couldn’t wait to jump in with both feet again.

That wifey on the news, unless she’s the care home owner, is surely for the sacking. If she is the owner then surely residents families will be pulling their loved ones out of there.

[123456789.]

The pub in the village I’ve found myself in is doing takeaway pints, I was out for a run last night around half 7. There’s a recreation ground across from the pub. All the regulars were out with takeaway pints on the grass. No social distancing. In fact, if you’d just woken up from a coma you wouldn’t realise anything has changed.

[WELL-PAST-IT]

Jesus wept it didn’t take long eh

Watching reporting Scotland. Interviewing a Gran who is a manager of a care home who is about to see her grandkid for the first time in 10 weeks.

Asked if she’ll keep the 2m distance, yes she said. Bairn turns up, bairn gets hugged. How can you stop yourself hugging a grandchild??? But you’re the manager of a care home, after hugging the child you’re going to be going back into the home and there’s at risk people in there!

I am not excusing it, but watching the box this morning a bit came up on the subject of kids transmitting the virus, a study in Australia found that kids do not infect as many people as adults for some reason. They aggressively tracked a number of kids who had positive tests and found that very few of the people they had contact with caught the virus. They don't understand why this should be so, but in practise it just is.

They also had a couple of scientific types from the advisory SAGE committee, Sir Jeremy Farrar and Professor John Edmunds who believe the easing is far too early, Italy and Germany have done it, but only when there infection rates were around 300-400 a day, we are still 2,000 plus. They advised against it but the government is putting economic interest ahead of peoples safety.

Also, papers released by Sage revealed advice given to the Government in April, that said it was "likely" the R-value, would go above one should non-essential shops be reopened and Mr Farrar also said the newly-introduced NHS test-and-trace system needed to be "fully working" before measures were eased.

So, the government is going against the scientific advice it is being given and it is stating it is following, in order in my opinion try and distract from the Cummings fiasco and to appeal to those who cannot think for themselves and are risking a second peak. Starting the "track and trace before the trackers were aware it was starting to meat a false deadline imposed by Johnson. The TaT system will not work without digital data from phone apps, if you come down with symptoms, how are you going to know who all the people are who you have come in contact with in supermarkets etc. You will only be able to give info on friends and family.

More people will undoubtedly die as a result, but what do they care, we have already more deaths than any one else in Europe due to their ineptitude a few more won't hurt them as long as it keeps Cummings in a job.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

That Australian study wouldn’t be accepted in any other circumstance, is highly political and in a country unlike ours in how this has spread and their climate, geographical make up and, well, attitude.

Saw this yesterday and am still shocked unions haven’t chosen to strike:

“Deaths yesterday across Europe:
Spain 2
Italy 87
Germany 24
France 52
Turkey 28
Belgium 42
Sweden 84
Portugal 14
Ireland 6
Poland 13
Romania 13
Hungary 8
Netherlands 28

UK ... 324
There's no way we are ready to ease lockdown & open schools“

[WELL-PAST-IT]

Did anyone watch the "Have I Got News Got You" last night?

Ian Hislop just wades into Cummings and tears him to ribbons, had my wife who is totally apolitical in fits of laughter.

Available on BBC I-Player if you missed it, well worth seeing if you enjoy someone with a cutting edge to their humour.

[WELL-PAST-IT]

The Guardian has got a report that at least 4 of the Sage group all top scientist  have come out to say the Cumings has broken  the Covid-19 policy trust and that this poses a real danger to life with the easing of lockdown this week.

In a letter sent to No 10 on Friday, 26 senior UK academics and health administrators warn that public faith in the government is essential if the Covid-19 crisis is to be tackled effectively.

However, they make clear that trust has been “badly damaged by the recently reported actions of Dominic Cummings, including his failure to stand down or resign in the public interest”, and by the prime minister’s refusal to dismiss him

Even the lackeys are coming out against him " Prof Jonathan Van-Tam went out of his way at the daily coronavirus briefing to make clear that people in positions of authority had a duty to lead by example and obey lockdown rules."

Other comments from the group are that "public mood is “too fragile to cope with another over-optimistic target-based strategy”, and urge transparency over timescales and risks for the national scheme."

"They also say there is now a high risk of an uncontrolled spike in new infections, hospitalisations and deaths from Covid-19 over the summer"

"One of the letter’s main authors, Prof David McCoy, director of the centre for public health at Queen Mary University, London, described the test, trace and isolate system – which aims to quarantine people with Covid-19 and those who have been in contact with them – as “a mess”.

“It is not a system,” he told the Observer. “It is just a fragmented collection of different programmes with nothing really holding them together. We needed to have spent much of April organising the test and trace programme and that was not done. We have wasted the time we had bought ourselves.”

Part of that failure could be blamed on Dominic Cummings, he added. “Firstly he breached the lockdown rules but also as the chief adviser to the prime minister he has to take some responsibility for the failure of the government to make a proper response to Covid.”

"Prof Devi Sridhar, also at Edinburgh University, said the current daily rate of thousands of new cases was unacceptably high. “Watching carefully what’s happening in east Asia and combining this with what we know so far about this virus, it does indeed feel like mistakes are being repeated,” she said. Daily new cases should be cut to double digits, or low hundreds at most, she said, while test, trace and isolate procedures are put in place and core infrastructure built up."

Four other members of the Sage committee, Prof John Edmunds, Sir Jeremy Farrar, Prof Calum Semple and Prof Peter Horby, all warned on Saturday that the government was taking a serious risk by easing the lockdown while 8,000 people a day were being infected. That is 4 out of 9 willing to speak openly, I would suggest that others are saying the same thing but not telling teh public.

To me that confirms that the government in order to try and be popular is not following scientific advice but ignoring it and putting people at risk in order to try and satisfy their craving for popularity.

[Samo]

Seeing all of the people gathered on beaches yesterday makes me think that a second spike is basically inevitable at this point.

[MrInvisible]

I'm nowhere near the coast but in my area seen hordes of people, some in large groups, in parks and other open spaces this weekend. I'm in a fairly mixed area, socially and ethnically, and there's definitely a divide on age/class/ethnicity round here on who's flouting the lockdown the most - young, white, working class folk obviously feel the most invincible - by contrast I see quite a few scared looking BME folk, particularly older, wearing masks.

On the beaches and national parks, I do feel the government made a mistake allowing (in England) people to drive as far as they want for exercise. These places have v few facilities open, meaning long queues for toilets/fish and chips, etc. I fear a second spike, just after children return to school in greater numbers later in June.

[Duty281]

The lockdown is pretty much over, at least unofficially. Sport's coming back tomorrow, loads of people are going outside, and (for a lot of people, it seems) the immediate panic is over.

If the government want to restore lockdown they better put the hammer down and announce tighter curbs.

[JDizzle]

Aside from the obvious public health concerns, if England in particular has to lockdown again whilst the rest of Europe carries on slowing opening up over the summer then there will be dire political consequences for the government. Big risk in both departments.

[Cyril]

Did anyone watch the "Have I Got News Got You" last night?

Ian Hislop just wades into Cummings and tears him to ribbons, had my wife who is totally apolitical in fits of laughter.

Available on BBC I-Player if you missed it, well worth seeing if you enjoy someone with a cutting edge to their humour.

Just watched that. I would love to see Hislop take Cummings out in a proper interview. One on one he would destroy him.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

The beauty of our press and the beauty of our government means we have racing starting from tomorrow, which I’m sure has nothing to do with MP Matt Hancock weirdly positive. Might have something to do with where he’s an MP and all his kick backs from racing.

The Sun also boasts how we can all BBQ with mates now, surely fully aware that that makes it sound like the party is on. They also boast about schools being back, whilst knowing many councils and schools are defying such.

Schools of course are being opened even though independent advice and their own government tests suggest they shouldn’t be.

I think it’s rather clear that the approval ratings have had an impact

[Samo]

Schools are opening, sporting events are restarting and people who have been shielding will be allowed to leave their homes.

When did we jump from level 4 to level 1? This is a shambolic distraction from the Cummings scandal. Herd immunity by stealth. This will kill more people.

[WELL-PAST-IT]

Jennie Harries the other Deputy Chief Medical Officer has stated that she agrees with DCMO Johnathan Van-Tam about Cummings. "it is a matter of personal and professional integrity" to abide by the rules, she has said and she agrees completely with her colleague.

Also turns out that Raab when deputising for Johnson did not know Cummings was in Durham and didn't find out until the sh*t storm broke, or so he now says. Political positioning perhaps?

[BamBam]

It's unlikely Dominic Raab knows where Durham is

[lostinwales]

Schools are opening, sporting events are restarting and people who have been shielding will be allowed to leave their homes.

When did we jump from level 4 to level 1? This is a shambolic distraction from the Cummings scandal. Herd immunity by stealth. This will kill more people.

Yes it will, unless the government are somehow able to tell the virus what it is going to do next

[lostinwales]

tigertattie, I took a load of garden waste to the dump yesterday. They were very organised with staff at the entrance and exits communicating by walkie talkie. As I was taking my stuff to the bin I passed the chap monitoring the exit just as a colleague came to let him go for his lunch break. I heard the new guy ask if he could have the radio. Now these guys were sitting in the hot sun with the radio no more than three inches away from their faces. You could almost see the sweat and condensed breath gleaming on it. As I was leaving I said to the chap that he really should be provided with his own radio, or anti bac wipes to clean it if they passed it from person to person. he explained they didn't have any more but it was alright because they were all washing their hands as often as possible. People, on my limited observations, seem to be giving up on social distancing and no taking the Stay Safe message that seriously anymore.
I give it three/four weeks before the second wave begins.
Also, while surfing on my smarttellybox I stumbled across a clip from the FT: they had asked their legal correspondent to examine the text of Dominic Cumming's press conference. he went through it in forensic detail and concluded; it doesn't read like someone retelling their account of the events, it reads like a carefully drafted witness statement. It is laid out inprecise order and at every step seeks to prove that each action was justified as reasonable. The use of "reasonable " in Boris' support for him reinforces the sense that everything about his press conference was drafted and rehearsed with the lawyers playing an important role. It stinks to high heaven.

Was that a brummie called David Allen Green? He's worth a follow on twitter if you spend any time on that. He was spending a lot of time going over the statement on twitter, also saying that many other Lawyers felt the same way.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

The Guardian has got a report that at least 4 of the Sage group all top scientist  have come out to say the Cumings has broken  the Covid-19 policy trust and that this poses a real danger to life with the easing of lockdown this week.

In a letter sent to No 10 on Friday, 26 senior UK academics and health administrators warn that public faith in the government is essential if the Covid-19 crisis is to be tackled effectively.

However, they make clear that trust has been “badly damaged by the recently reported actions of Dominic Cummings, including his failure to stand down or resign in the public interest”, and by the prime minister’s refusal to dismiss him

Even the lackeys are coming out against him " Prof Jonathan Van-Tam went out of his way at the daily coronavirus briefing to make clear that people in positions of authority had a duty to lead by example and obey lockdown rules."

Other comments from the group are that "public mood is “too fragile to cope with another over-optimistic target-based strategy”, and urge transparency over timescales and risks for the national scheme."

"They also say there is now a high risk of an uncontrolled spike in new infections, hospitalisations and deaths from Covid-19 over the summer"

"One of the letter’s main authors, Prof David McCoy, director of the centre for public health at Queen Mary University, London, described the test, trace and isolate system – which aims to quarantine people with Covid-19 and those who have been in contact with them – as “a mess”.

“It is not a system,” he told the Observer. “It is just a fragmented collection of different programmes with nothing really holding them together. We needed to have spent much of April organising the test and trace programme and that was not done. We have wasted the time we had bought ourselves.”

Part of that failure could be blamed on Dominic Cummings, he added. “Firstly he breached the lockdown rules but also as the chief adviser to the prime minister he has to take some responsibility for the failure of the government to make a proper response to Covid.”

"Prof Devi Sridhar, also at Edinburgh University, said the current daily rate of thousands of new cases was unacceptably high. “Watching carefully what’s happening in east Asia and combining this with what we know so far about this virus, it does indeed feel like mistakes are being repeated,” she said. Daily new cases should be cut to double digits, or low hundreds at most, she said, while test, trace and isolate procedures are put in place and core infrastructure built up."

Four other members of the Sage committee, Prof John Edmunds, Sir Jeremy Farrar, Prof Calum Semple and Prof Peter Horby, all warned on Saturday that the government was taking a serious risk by easing the lockdown while 8,000 people a day were being infected. That is 4 out of 9 willing to speak openly, I would suggest that others are saying the same thing but not telling teh public.

To me that confirms that the government in order to try and be popular is not following scientific advice but ignoring it and putting people at risk in order to try and satisfy their craving for popularity.

But this is what I don't get: what value is there to easing restrictions too soon if it results in a spike in cases, and a spike in deaths? What popularity do they think they'll gain from that? Isn't this just massively short-sighted? Are they really not thinking that far ahead?

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Just to add: thank f*ck for devolution.

[tigertattie]

Just to add: thank f*ck for devolution.

It's 50/50 Luckless

Up here we're partly shielded from Bojo and Cummings but then our infection rate and death toll per capita is worse than in England (Health is fully devolved up here)

This is why I dont support independence in Scotland. Replacing incompitent muppets in Westminster for incompitent muppets in Holyrood is just a chair chaging excercise.

Look at the the now apparent first outbreak in Scotland at the Nike conference! The Scottish Government chose not to disclose this at the time. Something they would shout from the rafters about if Westminster did that!

Both the Scottish and UK goverments have made serious errors in this emergency and the owrst of it is that after the public enquiry, the damage will have been done, no criminal charges will be brought and the retired "leaders" will just live out thier retirement in luxuary while 95% of the population struggles on for years to try to put things back together again. Not that you can do anything about losing a loved one!

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Yes, I didn't mean to imply that I think the devolved governments have been faultless in all this. But in their insistence on sticking to 'stay at home' when the UK government moved to merely 'stay alert', and the retention of restrictions on the distance you can travel to exercise (I guess Scotland is the same as Wales) when the UK government moved to permitting unlimited travel to exercise, they've gone for the cautious approach, and I'm very glad for that.

I live in the Aneurin Bevan health board area, and for a while it was one of the hotspots for cases, in the UK not just Wales, and my Dad's in a home, so I was very worried about things. I've been reassured by most of what the Welsh government has done.

[tigertattie]

Issue we have Luckless is that the Scottish Government have said last week

"yeah you can go out but we'd prefer you to stay in"

and

"when it comes to travelling we'd rather people used their judgement"

So what has happened? Folk are out and travelling everywhere. We had the coastguard up here unable to get to a beach to launch a rescue because half a dozen cars had parked in front of the entrance that was locked up.

I dont get why they cant justsay "no, stay in" and tell folk to stay in or they'll get a fine. Now we have folk jsut wandering around doing what they like and the police have no powers to do anything!

I'd say most are still being sensible but a few thousand bampots jsut ruin it for everyone else!

[Jetty]

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavir...-says-11998608

[WELL-PAST-IT]

Is there a problem with the the link Jetty or has the page been taken down?

I watched a recording of "The Last Leg" last night, beamed with Adam Hills in Melbourne and the rest and guests all over here. If anything there take on Cummings was better than Ian Hislop on "Have I Got News For You". Absolutely scathing.

[WELL-PAST-IT]

Just reading on the BBC that the Tories want to stop the electronic voting system they have in the commons and get all the MPs back in the Commons to vote in person using the paring system to even out the vulnerable members who cannot attend. This is of course headed up by Rees-Mogg who probably cannot operate the technology, not his fault, they didn't have laptops in the 17th century.

Do they no realise what this would look like to the public, taking out the vulnerable, some 500 people crowed into a chamber less than 1m apart. Would this not be breaking their own rules about social distancing and working from home if they possibly can i.e. not having large assemblies of people where it is not absolutely necessary.

The only reason I can think of is that they can see who is voting for what side, when they are in the Commons, perhaps that is not the case via laptop and Boris is starting to run scared that his 80 seat majority is not as safe a cushion as he thought it was.

[Pr4wn]

They also want the mob to be sat behind Johnson. PMQs has been too much like a courtroom recently, and we all know who that favours.

[WELL-PAST-IT]

The head of the UK Statistics Authority has effectively accused the UK Government of cheating with the figures on testing, saying that the statistics reported are not the whole facts and there is no explanation of how they are built up; therefore worthless.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52889103

[Sgt_Pooly]

Good to see things moving on from Cummings bashing in the media, somewhat anyway. Very unlike the UK to blow something as small as this up into insane proportions.

[Samo]

Wheres Johnson?

[JDizzle]

Just reading on the BBC that the Tories want to stop the electronic voting system they have in the commons and get all the MPs back in the Commons to vote in person using the paring system to even out the vulnerable members who cannot attend. This is of course headed up by Rees-Mogg who probably cannot operate the technology, not his fault, they didn't have laptops in the 17th century.

Do they no realise what this would look like to the public, taking out the vulnerable, some 500 people crowed into a chamber less than 1m apart. Would this not be breaking their own rules about social distancing and working from home if they possibly can i.e. not having large assemblies of people where it is not absolutely necessary.

The only reason I can think of is that they can see who is voting for what side, when they are in the Commons, perhaps that is not the case via laptop and Boris is starting to run scared that his 80 seat majority is not as safe a cushion as he thought it was.

Some of the pictures from Parliament this afternoon have been absolutely comical. I’m not one to begrudge MPs their salary, they do a tough job, but Jesus Christ talk about an inefficient way to use their time and our money.

I’d like to say one day our parliament will reach the 21st century but I actually highly doubt it.

[Jetty]

Is there a problem with the the link Jetty or has the page been taken down?

I watched a recording of "The Last Leg" last night, beamed with Adam Hills in Melbourne and the rest and guests all over here. If anything there take on Cummings was better than Ian Hislop on "Have I Got News For You". Absolutely scathing.

Sorry, try this

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-no-longer-clinically-exists-in-italy-top-doctor-says-11998608

[guildfordbat]

London Mayoral Candidate Shaun Bailey tied in complete knots over both Cummings and quarantine by Piers Morgan on GMB.

Morgan's too smug and too readily interrupts his interviewees for my liking but, boy, he asks the questions so many of us want raised. No Government minister prepared to go on GMB and boycotting the programme - if they had proper answers, they would be on the show at the drop of a hat regardless of Morgan's manner.

[guildfordbat]

Just reading on the BBC that the Tories want to stop the electronic voting system they have in the commons and get all the MPs back in the Commons to vote in person using the paring system to even out the vulnerable members who cannot attend. This is of course headed up by Rees-Mogg who probably cannot operate the technology, not his fault, they didn't have laptops in the 17th century.

Do they no realise what this would look like to the public, taking out the vulnerable, some 500 people crowed into a chamber less than 1m apart. Would this not be breaking their own rules about social distancing and working from home if they possibly can i.e. not having large assemblies of people where it is not absolutely necessary.

The only reason I can think of is that they can see who is voting for what side, when they are in the Commons, perhaps that is not the case via laptop and Boris is starting to run scared that his 80 seat majority is not as safe a cushion as he thought it was.

Some of the pictures from Parliament this afternoon have been absolutely comical. I’m not one to begrudge MPs their salary, they do a tough job, but Jesus Christ talk about an inefficient way to use their time and our money.

I’d like to say one day our parliament will reach the 21st century but I actually highly doubt it.

''The queue [to vote] is so long I saw one MP using google maps'' - as tweeted by Kevin Brennan, Welsh Labour MP.

[lostinwales]

Just reading on the BBC that the Tories want to stop the electronic voting system they have in the commons and get all the MPs back in the Commons to vote in person using the paring system to even out the vulnerable members who cannot attend. This is of course headed up by Rees-Mogg who probably cannot operate the technology, not his fault, they didn't have laptops in the 17th century.

Do they no realise what this would look like to the public, taking out the vulnerable, some 500 people crowed into a chamber less than 1m apart. Would this not be breaking their own rules about social distancing and working from home if they possibly can i.e. not having large assemblies of people where it is not absolutely necessary.

The only reason I can think of is that they can see who is voting for what side, when they are in the Commons, perhaps that is not the case via laptop and Boris is starting to run scared that his 80 seat majority is not as safe a cushion as he thought it was.

Some of the pictures from Parliament this afternoon have been absolutely comical. I’m not one to begrudge MPs their salary, they do a tough job, but Jesus Christ talk about an inefficient way to use their time and our money.

I’d like to say one day our parliament will reach the 21st century but I actually highly doubt it.

Can't confirm but heard that the Lords is going fully virtual. Yet another symbol of the absolute state of this government is that the old fogies next door have done a better job of integrating technology to help them do their job.

[JDizzle]

Just reading on the BBC that the Tories want to stop the electronic voting system they have in the commons and get all the MPs back in the Commons to vote in person using the paring system to even out the vulnerable members who cannot attend. This is of course headed up by Rees-Mogg who probably cannot operate the technology, not his fault, they didn't have laptops in the 17th century.

Do they no realise what this would look like to the public, taking out the vulnerable, some 500 people crowed into a chamber less than 1m apart. Would this not be breaking their own rules about social distancing and working from home if they possibly can i.e. not having large assemblies of people where it is not absolutely necessary.

The only reason I can think of is that they can see who is voting for what side, when they are in the Commons, perhaps that is not the case via laptop and Boris is starting to run scared that his 80 seat majority is not as safe a cushion as he thought it was.

Some of the pictures from Parliament this afternoon have been absolutely comical. I’m not one to begrudge MPs their salary, they do a tough job, but Jesus Christ talk about an inefficient way to use their time and our money.

I’d like to say one day our parliament will reach the 21st century but I actually highly doubt it.

''The queue [to vote] is so long I saw one MP using google maps'' - as tweeted by Kevin Brennan, Welsh Labour MP.

I did see a few remarks saying how they weren’t sure if they were in the queue for Nemesis or Oblivion, but were looking forward to getting on!

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Just reading on the BBC that the Tories want to stop the electronic voting system they have in the commons and get all the MPs back in the Commons to vote in person using the paring system to even out the vulnerable members who cannot attend. This is of course headed up by Rees-Mogg who probably cannot operate the technology, not his fault, they didn't have laptops in the 17th century.

Do they no realise what this would look like to the public, taking out the vulnerable, some 500 people crowed into a chamber less than 1m apart. Would this not be breaking their own rules about social distancing and working from home if they possibly can i.e. not having large assemblies of people where it is not absolutely necessary.

The only reason I can think of is that they can see who is voting for what side, when they are in the Commons, perhaps that is not the case via laptop and Boris is starting to run scared that his 80 seat majority is not as safe a cushion as he thought it was.

Some of the pictures from Parliament this afternoon have been absolutely comical. I’m not one to begrudge MPs their salary, they do a tough job, but Jesus Christ talk about an inefficient way to use their time and our money.

I’d like to say one day our parliament will reach the 21st century but I actually highly doubt it.

Can't confirm but heard that the Lords is going fully virtual. Yet another symbol of the absolute state of this government is that the old fogies next door have done a better job of integrating technology to help them do their job.

The stupidest thing about it is that the Tories have an 80-seat majority whether MPs are there in person or not.

[guildfordbat]

Johnson fronting today's press briefing with Whitty and Vallance riding side saddle. Be interesting to see if, unlike last week, he allows the journos comeback questions.

[Duty281]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52907101

Lockdown? What lockdown?

[guildfordbat]

Being tweeted that the UK had more Coronavirus related deaths in the last 24 hours than the entire other 27 EU countries combined.

With regard to all Johnson's talk and hopes of reciprocal travel arrangements being put in place, any country wanting to pair up with us would have to be nuts!

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