Heineken Semis

Even as an Englishman I am kinds hoping that positive rugby is rewarded. I appreciate it is cup rugby and therefore all about the result (who remembers SAs win over Wales in RWC 2019), but I am so bored with the pragmatic approach especially taken by Saracens. I am glad that some Finn magic put paid to saracens, despite their obvious courage in overcoming everything thrown at them this season. Time for attacking skill to win the day.

I missed the game and have just switched the Exeter game on. Have to say that's a shock result for Saracens. I wouldn't rule out an all French final at this stage. Toulouse look potent and Exeter perhaps need a bit of luck to win this game.

Exeter another close range forward effort and try - lethal from 5 metres out. Fine conversion. 21-11.

But again they are oh so pragmatic. Bloody effective and hard to stop.

Racing were always favourites, but I thought Saracens did brilliantly to nullify them for 70 minutes with an excellent tactical game and strong defence, which forced lots of errors from the home side in the process. Saracens would have probably held on if it wasn't for Barritt's injury...or if Lewington had gathered the ball cleanly and scored under the posts (though it may have been brought back). It may not be exciting, but Saracens had to be pragmatic otherwise the Racing back line would have torn them to shreds.

Loved Nigel's refereeing of the game too - at one point he awarded a scrum to Saracens five metres out from the Racing line because the Racing 9 didn't 'use' the ball within the five seconds. Rare to see a referee enforce that and it ensured a slightly quicker game throughout.

And it looks as though Exeter have recovered from their sluggish start with a third try giving them a healthy lead.

Exeter have just grabbed this game by the scruff in this second half. They look much the better side now.

Yeah....massive respect now to Exeter. What a period of play and what a fourth try.

It's typical Exeter really. They're like a boxer that just keeps going and keeps going and then around the third quarter they're just pummelling away and racking up the points as the other team drops off.

Great Toulouse try though. Consolation joue joue.

Looks like a new winner this year

I hope Exeter win it they more than deserve it. At the very least they won't be losing to Saracens, again, and all that would have meant.

rugby racing and beer wrote:I hope Exeter win it they more than deserve it. At the very least they won't be losing to Saracens, again, and all that would have meant.

Not sure they deserve it more than racing

Brendan wrote:

rugby racing and beer wrote:I hope Exeter win it they more than deserve it. At the very least they won't be losing to Saracens, again, and all that would have meant.

Not sure they deserve it more than racing

Dunno that was a tactical masterclass today by Baxter and the coaching team. To out score Tolouse on the try front is quite impressive. The way they kept the ball in play for long periods to slowly wear down the Tolouse team even though it meant they took a boat load of punishment for much of the opening half an hour was very brave. The total commitment of the team to stick to the task and their tactics says a lot about the squad togetherness and onfield leadership.

Racing on the other hand scraped through at the death and it seemed mainly because Sarries lost Barritt to injury having played pretty averagely.

Looking forward to the final, it could be quite some game.

Don't disagree on their performance but I was disputing that they deserve to win the final more than Racing.

Racing's route has been
Sarriesx3
Munsterx2
Clermont away.

Only more impressive route would have been if Sarries had won.  Toulouse showed last year that they don't do well against the more Phyiscal team as Leinster showed last year.  Racing have been able to manage the physical side better.  Ntamack while he has the potential to be great is only 21, Russell will be much more of a threat.

Whichever team wins will have done it on merit but one team has been viewed as the 3rd best team in Europe, the other while great domestically is only on their first run to the latter stages.

Brendan wrote:

rugby racing and beer wrote:I hope Exeter win it they more than deserve it. At the very least they won't be losing to Saracens, again, and all that would have meant.

Not sure they deserve it more than racing

When you take in to account the cheating from Saracens that's denied them trophy after trophy and their repeated 'so close yet so far' efforts in Europe over the last few seasons I think they deserve it.

For those who didn’t watch the Sarries game:
https://youtu.be/FQipk0hgC6I

Interested to know what non-Scottish posters make of Finn Russell displays like that. Very few players in the world can do that but I recall that suggestions he would be a solid choice for the B&I Lions were ridiculed last time round.

Brendan wrote:

rugby racing and beer wrote:I hope Exeter win it they more than deserve it. At the very least they won't be losing to Saracens, again, and all that would have meant.

Not sure they deserve it more than racing

you would say that Racing aren't english

George Carlin wrote:For those who didn’t watch the Sarries game:
https://youtu.be/FQipk0hgC6I

Interested to know what non-Scottish posters make of Finn Russell displays like that. Very few players in the world can do that but I recall that suggestions he would be a solid choice for the B&I Lions were ridiculed last time round.

Finn Russell is clearly extremely gifted. And he knows it. which is presumably why he fell out with Townsend in the 6Ns. But just look what he can do with dangerous options everywhere, and a pack that consistently secures front foot ball.

at the moment i would say he should be a shoe-in for Lions 10. had he stayed in Scotland it would not have been so obvious frankly.

George Carlin wrote:For those who didn’t watch the Sarries game:
https://youtu.be/FQipk0hgC6I

Interested to know what non-Scottish posters make of Finn Russell displays like that. Very few players in the world can do that but I recall that suggestions he would be a solid choice for the B&I Lions were ridiculed last time round.

I didn't see the game but one 'play' is just one play.

It's easy to watch higlights and think Finn Russell is world class. The reality is there is so much more to #10 play than the flashy stuff. For Scotland, he's playing behind a pack that almost always goes backwards. For the Lions, that will be the same down in SA. You can't expect the dominance Racing have, and the all star players, in either international team and that's the difficult thing. I'd also say remember even European knockouts are lesser tests than international test matches.

I've got to be honest I'm not a fan. Given Russell set up two tries from dinks over the top last round (?) Saracens really should have done their homework and adapted to know what was coming in the dying minutes. I will say: the try is reliant on a world class French-Fijian and a world class Argentinian winger who, for me, is arguably one of the best in the world finishing off the try. Against Daly who isn't a 15.

I'd like to see how he goes for Scotland. I'm not against him touring or even starting a test or two if he proves it. The problem is it's at 'this' level that he seems to shine, or against opposition who are either weak or who have lost their heads (England). Let's see him back it up game after game for 80 minutes. He doesn't have to be magic for 80 minutes just be good overall. Given another commen on the Scotland thread just before that dink was criticising him as poor I think that suggests his all round performance wasn't good enough and this moment of skill masks that. Rugby's an 80 minute game.

I'm a fan of Russell. In a tight game he can be the difference between winning and losing.


I think in some games he has to over try things if the pack are up against it.

profitius wrote:I'm a fan of Russell. In a tight game he can be the difference between winning and losing.

Is the differene always positive though?

rugby racing and beer wrote:

profitius wrote:I'm a fan of Russell. In a tight game he can be the difference between winning and losing.

Is the differene always positive though?

Mostly is positive. There's also the indirect threat because defenders have a broader range of areas to cover.

I think it's a shoot out between Biggar and Russell.  Sexton for me is past it and too injury prone on tours.  I can't see how a combined pack of the 4 Nations will be outuscled by SA.

I would rather have Russell as a sub to come on for the last 20 minutes of a game and chase it.  Not sure Biggar would do that.  Going on club form Biggar and Ford aren't well ahead of Russell.

Last Lions tour Russell was still to much of a risk and could lose the ball with poor judgement.  Against the ABs not a great plan.  Against SA you need someone to move around the pack and unlock defenses which he is great at.  He also has become more reliable overall.

Playing against big packs wont hurt his game either as he is well use to it from the T14

Racing v Saracens match wasn't the greatest. Saracens looked a side hungover from the Leinster game, lacking the same energy levels and precision. Racing were underwhelming again, a side that doesn't seem to be able to kick on and reach their true playing potential, frequently the sum of their parts at most. Their superior bench won them the last quarter, with Saracens definitely missing their loaned players.

Both Exeter and Toulouse look like sides that would beat the Parisians in this final and future ones. They're more interesting and cohesive teams, playing better rugby and more readily progressing their game. Exeter are certainly the more deserving team to make the final this year, but Toulouse look like maturing into a side that will become the most regular fixture of the coming years.

hawalsh wrote:Racing v Saracens match wasn't the greatest.  Saracens looked a side hungover from the Leinster game,

Maybe not just the Leinster game, this was their third in a row against a top European side (albeit that Exeter didn't turn up) and 5th game in 22 days. This was only Racings fourth game of the season, Saracens 9th in 42 days. Fatigue is excusable in this season, even with the measures put in place to ensure squad rotation.

Not to try and right off Racings victory mind, they topped Saracens in their group and fully deserve a finals spot. To be honest its shown real character from the big name Saracens players, especially those who have already left, to pull their socks up and be competitive with top European clubs.

Exeter vs Saracens would've been a pretty spicy final, fair bit of bad blood from the fallout around the salary cap, but its always better to see two different leagues represented in a European final.

From an England POV would rather have seen neither club in the final truth be told, the players are facing a pretty ridiculous autumn schedule even without it. The benefits of the enforced rest are in danger of being lost pretty quickly even with the additional enforced rotation. The Exeter players will have the playoff games as well giving them 3 knock out games in 15 days the week before the AIs start (although I assume they will get rested for the Barbarians game?), meanwhile Saracens lot will have a few weeks to put their feet up.

I'm really looking forward to the final - two deserving finalists, star studded teams and contrasting styles/histories. I can't see too far past an Exeter win though, was so impressive how they brushed aside Toulouse in the end.

One thing seemed obvious to me when watching them when they get into the 5m though, they seal off almost every ruck - any one of Ewers, Hill, Gray, Hepburn etc just flop all over the ball making it impossible for the defending team to attack the breakdown. Fair play if they are getting away with it, and almost every team pushes the rules past breaking point at the ruck, but it seems so glaringly obvious that i'm surprised they don't get pinged for it more often.

EST wrote:I'm really looking forward to the final - two deserving finalists, star studded teams and contrasting styles/histories. I can't see too far past an Exeter win though, was so impressive how they brushed aside Toulouse in the end.

One thing seemed obvious to me when watching them when they get into the 5m though, they seal off almost every ruck - any one of Ewers, Hill, Gray, Hepburn etc just flop all over the ball making it impossible for the defending team to attack the breakdown. Fair play if they are getting away with it, and almost every team pushes the rules past breaking point at the ruck, but it seems so glaringly obvious that i'm surprised they don't get pinged for it more often.

I suppose in a way they get away with it as they generally do it with 2 latches supporting the carry and then someone else following up quickly to create the ruck. The guy following up is on his feet whereas the other being part of the carry are brought down through the tackle anyway?

No 7&1/2 wrote:

EST wrote:I'm really looking forward to the final - two deserving finalists, star studded teams and contrasting styles/histories.  I can't see too far past an Exeter win though, was so impressive how they brushed aside Toulouse in the end.

One thing seemed obvious to me when watching them when they get into the 5m though, they seal off almost every ruck - any one of Ewers, Hill, Gray, Hepburn etc just flop all over the ball making it impossible for the defending team to attack the breakdown.  Fair play if they are getting away with it, and almost every team pushes the rules past breaking point at the ruck, but it seems so glaringly obvious that i'm surprised they don't get pinged for it more often.  

I suppose in a way they get away with it as they generally do it with 2 latches supporting the carry and then someone else following up quickly to create the ruck. The guy following up is on his feet whereas the other being part of the carry are brought down through the tackle anyway?

Yeah, that could well be part of the picture - I wonder if there is a grey area in the laws currently about support players latching on? At points on the weekend, by the 7/8/9th phase it was almost comical, one ruck in particular it looked like Jonny Gray was going for a swim.

Just to mention that the title of this thread is a euphemism for brewers droop