Ulster Rugby 2022/2023

First topic message reminder :

Thought it was time for an update on the thread so this is the new all things Ulster thread.

Leinster team posted. I will include Frank Murphy in their ranks even if he is a Munster man

15. Max O’Reilly (4)
14. Cian Kelleher (23)
13. Jimmy O’Brien (30)
12. Rory O’Loughlin (76)
11. Dave Kearney (161)
10. Ross Byrne (96)
9. Luke McGrath (142) CAPTAIN
1. Ed Byrne (63)
2. James Tracy (122)
3. Michael Bent (152)
4. Devin Toner (258)
5. Scott Fardy (72)
6. Rhys Ruddock (184)
7. Josh van der Flier (90)
8. Scott Penny (22)

16. Seán Cronin (192)
17. Peter Dooley (87)
18. Thomas Clarkson (7)
19. Ross Molony (108)
20. Josh Murphy (42)
21. Rowan Osborne (8)
22. Jamie Osborne (3)
23. Jack Dunne (12)

Referee: Frank Murphy (IRFU)

Forearm smash to the face - yellow.
Head to the face - yellow.
Forearm to neck - red.
Frank Murphy as always a clown

Pete330v2 wrote:Forearm smash to the face - yellow.
Head to the face - yellow.
Forearm to neck - red.
Frank Murphy as always a clown

To be fair to Frank he wanted to give him a yellow but the TMO wouldn't stop until he saw red. Don't think Toners was a yellow let alone red.

The officiating in that game as a whole was just woeful

Leinster took their chances well and deserved the win in the end.  

Baloucoune was very good, looked really sharp for Ulster, its really nice to see him back again

That ref and TMO were winding me up so much I gave up watching halfway through. Consequently, I can't say too much. Agree that Baloucoune was looking good both in attack and defence. Any other positives?

Firstly Leinster won fair and square but I do have a few points to make

If O'Brien was a yellow and Warwick a red Frank Murphy has a different rulebook on his bookshelves than the one I have
Two awful decisions
Why did he allow Fardy to start the tap penalties in front of Tracey - he was doing it all the time

In truth with the possible exception of AOC our front five were poor and that is where we lost the game.
One thing I would say is EOS and Marty Moore have done all the heavy lifting at lock and in truth both are starting to look jaded
In truth the other props at the club haven't done enough to take the weight of their shoulders
Leinster were missing a lot more players than us but it needs to be born in mind that the pack, it could reasonably be argued only contained 1 starting player, if everyone was available, after Coetzee went off.
Timoney has done well and we should finish the Pro 14 season with a backrow of Murphy, Timoney, Reidy bench McCann regardless of Coetzee's fitness

We should not be disheartened - there are only a handful of teams in Europe better than us - and we have lost to two of them this year Leinster and Toulouse (we lost to Gloucester but they are not a better team, just the opposite)

"Frank achieving what I had previously considered impossible, I actually feel sorry for Ulster"
Quote from a Munster forum.

There's plenty of positives to be taken both from that latest defeat to Leinster and from the wider season.
as Geoff said there are only a few teams in Europe that are better than us so there's an upwards trajectory and under McFarland I'm sure there's more to come. We have a lot of promising young players that will be the spine of the squad for a long time, Lowry, Baloucoune, Izuchuckwu and Moore to name but a few. There's plenty of experienced, seasoned players who've matured really nicely and will lead to the side for a time to come too. We still have the chance of adorning the trophy cabinet as well so it's not all doom and gloom. If it hadn't been for the daft rainbow cup we'd be looking forward to a playoff spot and a good chance of a final place but such are these times.

Cards ended the game being any kind of spectacle.
When Leinster sparked, they were scary.
I thought O'Brien would be a red, he read the pass great and was jumping on it, unfortunately mads was also jumping into that space.
I thought at first Toner had grabbed the kids arm rather than neck, but seatbelt tackle and high put him in the bin.

Why was Ulster LH substituted? How did he come back on? I'm sure it was probably just mis'labelling of the interchange by the TV feed (I thought he was off for a concussion check, yet was available to come back on as soon as warwick got the red card, again probably just tv coverage being wrong).

Warwick...... absolute howler. The previous try, he doesn't take the 1st pillar position, leaves it to his outhalf(!), the lad was only onto the field and was taking a breather a metre back into his own try area. Then churps with Fardy after the try, show that effort when you're defending that last inch ya eejit. Next involvement in play, has ball in hand and lines up a fellow prop from 5 metres out so goes to make an 'impact on the game'.... he sure did. I wonder what the total minutes of him on pitch with ball in play was?

I'm no fan of Warwick, not fit for purpose, not at the level Ulster aim to be going forward. Break glass option only.

So we get Harlequins Away.
Tough draw but not impossible to get a win over there.
We fear nobody

I posted a couple of years ago that I thought Warwick would be dropped.
He was only retained because of doubts about McCall coming good, those fears have been realised.

I go back to my point about too  much heavy lifting being done by EOS and Moore.
McGrath has been injured - is he motivated ?
TOT and Milasinovich did not contribute as much as hoped.
For TOT in large part because he is still learning his trade and being away with Ireland.
Milasinovich had a bad injury.
I am confident those two will perform well next year alongside EOS and Moore
after that the cupboard is a little bare.

Has McGrath got any mojo left - if he has that would a huge plus.
Reid will become a top player but unfair to expect much next year.
Warwick isn't fit for purpose and to honest Kane isn't much better.

If McGrath performs effectively it will be
LH - McGrath and EOS doing 90% of the workload
TH - Moore, O'Toole and Milasinovich will adequately cover.
If McGrath doesn't show Milasinovich will switch sides - that is why he has had some game time for the 'A's at LH - as an insurance policy.

Looking at this year Academy

Two 3rd year players - McCann has got a well deserved full contract
                                 Allison I suspect will be given a 4th year to see if his talent shines through his injuries
                                 We did the same a couple of years back with Aaron Hall but sadly it didn't work for him.
                                 He only played once for Ulster and was outstanding but injuries did for him

5 players not in their 3rd year have been given one more year in the Academy and then a guaranteed 1st team contract the
                                following year
                                Sexton, Doak, McIlroy, Reid, Stewart  
                                That is a reflection of the fact they are as group are the best of youngsters coming through, in one year,
                                 in decades
To them you can add Izzy no word of a full contract yet but if he isn't given one by December 2020 I would be very
                                 surprised
Players who appear to have been retain in the Academy - Finlay, Moxom, Rankin, Carson, Crothers, McCormick
Players who have left  Houston, Hyde Hyde is a decent player but with Moore and Hume coming through I think he realised
                                he wasn't going to get a look in. Returned to Quins - maybe he thinks he has a better chance there

As to new Academy players the only ones I've seen who I think are as certain as I can imagine are Postlewaite and Humphreys
Because of Covid though I've not seen as many youngsters as in previous years

It's good in a way to have a batch of talented youngster just getting through the academy level in the nick of time. COVID I think is going to stall a fair bit of all the provinces production line for a couple of seasons.

Those young lads should be exposed to some Pro14 game time in the remaining dead rubbers.
McFarland has alluded to just that in saying he'll be rotating in the remaining fixtures.

Release the pups of war !!!!

As an aside after seeing his last couple of cameos I would love to see Izichukwu converting to the backrow. He has the handing skills, the offloading skills, power and pace that we badly need. He'd not be a replacement for Marcel just yet but an Irish version on the same. I think he'll be wasted at lock but then again I'm not coaching a pro team for a reason

P.S. what's actually up with McGrath? Is he injured or homesick? Does the reckon White doesn't bring out his eyes as much as Blue?

Is he injured or homesick?

The 64,000 Euro question - some at Ulster would love to know the truthful answer.
Rather than homesick I wonder if he has just fallen out of love with the game.

geoff999rugby wrote:Is he injured or homesick?

The 64,000 Euro question - some at Ulster would love to know the truthful answer.
Rather than homesick I wonder if he has just fallen out of love with the game.

He needs a good old fashioned kick in the hole then. A player with his pedigree who used to keep Healy out of the Leinster 1stXV?
I suppose nobody knows what's going on in the guys head, I hope there's resolution soon because without him we're unacceptably light at LH.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, I remember seeing Milasinovich come on as a sub in one match and he looked like a really strong fella and seemed to really strengthen the scrum. Of course I haven't seen enough to be able to form an opinion. I'd be interested to hear the views of those of you more in the know.

As I suggested before Scrummy my assessment of our 8 props is broadly

EOS, TOT - two young lads who will only get better
Moore - good old hand who will give his all
Milasinovich - will come good next year and can play both sides
Reid - Very good prospect but next year is a bit early, I suggest the odd explosive game off the bench  - watch for him more in 22/23
Kane and Warwick - sub standard break glass options

We really need McGrath to do a job as that would give us 2 LH, 2 TH and 1 to play both sides, but primarily a TH
Otherwise we are light at LH

1. EOS, 2. Andrew, 3. Kane, 4. AOC, 5. Treadwell, 6. McCann, 7. Reidy, 8. Timoney, 9. Mathewson, 10. Lowry, 11. Lyttle, 12. McCloskey, 13. Moore, 14. Gilroy, 15. Stockdale

16. Roberts, 17. Reid 18. Milasinovich, 19. Izuchukwu, 20. M Rea, 21. Shanahan, 22. Madigan, 23. McIlroy

Just wondering if we put out a back three of Lowry, Sexton, Baloucoune some time next year would it be the fastest back three in World rugby ?

geoff999rugby wrote:Just wondering if we put out a back three of Lowry, Sexton, Baloucoune some time next year would it be the fastest back three in World rugby ?

Could be a tasty back 3 indeed.
Great to see a strong side heading over to the Dragons. These might be dead rubbers but they aren't meaningless, not to the squad.

Well a respectable, if not stellar performance.

I thought Lowry, Timoney, McCloskey were the stand out performances
Stockdales run was sublime - he is getting back to his best.
Lowry did not miss a tackle - Dragons kept throwing Roberts at him and he brought him down every time.
Who says he is too small - if you have the technique and the heart you can do it (Ian Humphreys please take note)
Timoney and McCloskey were aggressive at the breakdown but with the exception of O'Connors work rate the rest of the forwards were too passive.
I honestly think Andrew and O'Sullivan are out on their feet - they need a break.
Kane we all know is not good enough.
Reidy and Treadwell were poor by their standards.
McCann did pretty well though.
Roberts not McBurney on the bench was interesting - which, if either, is going to get a contract.
Moore is going to be a class act.
Gilroys back is going to do for him I reckon - came off again in obvious pain
MCIlroy is going to be a very very good player - has ability and an instinctive rugby brain
As are Reid and Izzy - exciting times

It was a joy to see Stockdale's run, I've missed seeing him do that. James Lowe, take note
Lowry was monstrous in defence, I counted at least 3 times Roberts ran at him at pace and was stopped in his tracks. At the end he'd completed 16 tackles, someone else said 18 but whatever the number he's just a class act in defence or attack.
I think the foot came off the gas, the dead-rubber looked all but won but it was a little early to sit back. The Dragons did well to come back and the final scoreline didn't tell the story of the match IMO. Ulster's experimental side were too good even if they showed their inexperience in letting the Dragons come so close.

One boast Ulster surely have over the decade is our production line of centres.
You could go back further, but if we take it from post Paddy Wallace - we have (had) produced Spence , Olding, McCloskley, Farrell, Marshall, Hume, Moore... I'm sure I've forgotten some.

Craig Newby is the new skills coach.

Here is his wiki entry
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craig_Newby

Leicester fans should know him well

clivemcl wrote:One boast Ulster surely have over the decade is our production line of centres.
You could go back further, but if we take it from post Paddy Wallace - we have (had) produced Spence   , Olding, McCloskley, Farrell, Marshall, Hume, Moore...  I'm sure I've forgotten some.

You missed one biggy - the best servant of the lot... Darren Cave
Also going back a bit further but what about Johnny Bell and Ian Whitten also Sam Arnold

Lastly to really go back a long the greatest 12 Irish rugby has ever produced...Mike Gibson

geoff999rugby wrote:Craig Newby is the new skills coach.

Here is his wiki entry
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craig_Newby

Leicester fans should know him well

He's had quite a journey through all levels of rugby and his coaching CV doesn't lack experience.

Whitten of course! And how could I forget Cave!

Hume has looked solid. I see him similar to McCloskey. Perhaps much more important but often overlooked or less obvious value in the team.

Moore though, I feel he has a potential for a bit more x-factor. Perhaps quite like Addison who would be a fantastic older head as a mentor if he could get back from injury.

I wonder if Addison will find himself at full back more when he returns.

Does anyone think Lowry’s performance at 10 is a step towards him being looked at there more?

That’s one thing Ulster seem to really have worked on. Switching up positions and rotating the team sheet a lot without cohesion failing a part. Perhaps a lot of players are getting comfortable with the idea they can play multiple positions at the required standard.

Three decent reliable tens. That’s certainly not something we are used to!

Funny you should mention Hume being like McCloskey.

There is a school of thought Hume will switch from 13 to 12 and Moore will go the other way.
Moore needs to develop his ability to manage the defence from 13.
I also agree of the two Moore is the one with true class, Hume is no slouch though.

I think Addison has it all to do to regain his place - Lowry has the 15 shirt for now and rightly so.

With Johnson gone you will see more of Lowry at 10.
To be honest after the weekend when he handled Roberts comfortably why not at 10.
For me he has the potential to be a better 10 than either Burns or Madigan.

Our big issue remains lacking power up front.
We need Henderson playing, we need Herring playing, We need McGrath fit, we need Naka fit, we need O'Toole to step up a gear.
Most improved forward of the year ? - Timoney for me.

geoff999rugby wrote:Funny you should mention Hume being like McCloskey.

There is a school of thought Hume will switch from 13 to 12 and Moore will go the other way.
Moore needs to develop his ability to manage the defence from 13.
I also agree of the two Moore is the one with true class, Hume is no slouch though.

I think Addison has it all to do to regain his place - Lowry has the 15 shirt for now and rightly so.

With Johnson gone you will see more of Lowry at 10.
To be honest after the weekend when he handled Roberts comfortably why not at 10.
For me he has the potential to be a better 10 than either Burns or Madigan.

Our big issue remains lacking power up front.
We need Henderson playing, we need Herring playing, We need McGrath fit, we need Naka fit, we need O'Toole to step up a gear.
Most improved forward of the year ? - Timoney for me.

Any word on where Johnson is going?

Pete330v2 wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:Craig Newby is the new skills coach.

Here is his wiki entry
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craig_Newby

Leicester fans should know him well

He's had quite a journey through all levels of rugby and his coaching CV doesn't lack experience.

He's also a serious competitor, anyone afraid of hard graft might want to get out now. He was an all action backrow in his playing days who could scavenge at the breakdown, jump at the lineout, tackle and carry. Mobile as well he played centre during a particularly bad injury crisis at Tigers in a European Game Vs Ospreys. He's certainly acquired a lot of coaching experience and I'm a little surprised he hasn't been offered a coaching role at a top club before now though coaching the England Women does show his skills were certainly rated.

"There is a school of thought Hume will switch from 13 to 12 and Moore will go the other way.
Moore needs to develop his ability to manage the defence from 13.
I also agree of the two Moore is the one with true class, Hume is no slouch though."

It's definately the way forward. Hume is a big old physical specimen and has lovely hands, he'll get even better with age like a fine wine. Moore, as you stated just needs to develop his defence from 13 and we'll have a centre unit that'll have a long future together.
A backline of Stockdale, Hume, Moore Baloucoune and Addison, would be a backline as good as any in Europe when all fit and up to speed.

McBurney away to Edinburgh

Don Alfonso wrote:McBurney away to Edinburgh

What is he like?

I gather he is SQ, but don't know much more other than that

Picking up on a few points:

Johnson is off to England - don't know if Premiership or Championship
Newby is a good signing - heard that he and Payne know each other

McBurney is leaving because Andrew has gone past him and Stewart will next year
He could see the writing on the wall - 4th choice at Ulster
He is all bustle, attitude and aggression.
Good at the breakdown.
Not the best thrower and can give away silly penalties.
To be honest I'm not convinced there is much between the ears.

geoff999rugby wrote:Picking up on a few points:

Johnson is off to England - don't know if Premiership or Championship
Newby is a good signing - heard that he and Payne know each other

McBurney is leaving because Andrew has gone past him and Stewart will next year
He could see the writing on the wall - 4th choice at Ulster
He is all bustle, attitude and aggression.
Good at the breakdown.
Not the best thrower and can give away silly penalties.
To be honest I'm not convinced there is much between the ears.

Oh dear, that does not sound very promising for Edinburgh!

Ok back up, but I hope he is not being considered as a starter
To be clear he does give 100% I'll say that for him

He is indeed Scotland qualified

geoff999rugby wrote:Ok back up, but I hope he is not being considered as a starter
To be clear he does give 100% I'll say that for him

He is indeed Scotland qualified

I would be surprised if he was being considered a starter, they have McInally (assuming he gets over his neck injury) and Cherry (who has now been capped and is doing ok), they probably need another one as well as McBurny to pad out the squad.

Still a new squad and for him a new coach in Cockers, so you never know, it could bring him on. Cherry came as a squad player and has ended up capped. We have such a small pool of players in Scotland that there is always that chance.

We've an Academy lock that left Ulster going very well in NZ. Eric O'Sullivan has an Irish cap and couldn't get into the Leinster Academy. Sometimes a fresh start can be the making of a player.

geoff999rugby wrote:Picking up on a few points:

Johnson is off to England - don't know if Premiership or Championship
Newby is a good signing - heard that he and Payne know each other

McBurney is leaving because Andrew has gone past him and Stewart will next year
He could see the writing on the wall - 4th choice at Ulster
He is all bustle, attitude and aggression.
Good at the breakdown.
Not the best thrower and can give away silly penalties.
To be honest I'm not convinced there is much between the ears.

My guess is Johnston will go to Ealing. They're on a slight spending spree and have apparently signed Cian Kelleher off us.

Shane Buckley and Angus Kernohan there as well, that he'd know

Don Alfonso wrote:We've an Academy lock that left Ulster going very well in NZ. Eric O'Sullivan has an Irish cap and couldn't get into the Leinster Academy. Sometimes a fresh start can be the making of a player.

Absolutely look at Farrell - he was third choice 12 at Ulster behind McCloskey and Olding, and not just behind but miles behind.
His performance were weak and he didn't seem to have the stomach for it.

Another to mention is Bealham, never made it at Ulster but has gone to Connacht and been a regular and has picked up a handful of caps.
Mind you in his case I put it down to poor management that he left Ulster.

As you mention O'Sullivan has been very good for Ulster and would be a real asset to Leinster know, as good, if not better, than anyone Leinster have behind the aging Healy
Also O'Connor - read somewhere he is the top tackling lock in the Pro14. Unbelievable workrate and again would be a real asset to Leinster with Fardy leaving and Ryan/Beard being missing
during Internationals. Take Fardy/Beard/Ryan out and Leinster look thin in the 2nd row.
Timoney is another who just gets better and better - although I do appreciate that Leinster are very strong in the backrow.

Going off at tangent - I venture to suggest that their may be no Irish backrower in the Lions setup.
Doris, Leavy - the best of the bunch in my view are both, almost certainly, going to lose out.
I'm not convinced anyone else will make up other than Henderson as a lock who can play in the backrow.

Izzy gets his first start v Zebre tomorrow.

(15-9) Ethan McIlroy, Robert Baloucoune, James Hume, Stewart Moore, Rob Lyttle, Michael Lowry, John Cooney;

(1-8) Eric O’Sullivan, John Andrew, Marty Moore, Cormac Izuchukwu, Kieran Treadwell, Sean Reidy, Jordy Murphy (Capt.), David McCann.

Replacements: Brad Roberts, Callum Reid, Tom O’Toole, Alan O’Connor, Matty Rea, David Shanahan, Ian Madigan, Ben Moxham

neilthom7 wrote:Izzy gets his first start v Zebre tomorrow.

(15-9) Ethan McIlroy, Robert Baloucoune, James Hume, Stewart Moore, Rob Lyttle, Michael Lowry, John Cooney;

(1-8) Eric O’Sullivan, John Andrew, Marty Moore, Cormac Izuchukwu, Kieran Treadwell, Sean Reidy, Jordy Murphy (Capt.), David McCann.

Replacements: Brad Roberts, Callum Reid, Tom O’Toole, Alan O’Connor, Matty Rea, David Shanahan, Ian Madigan, Ben Moxham

It's a nice mix of youth and experience. Some of the experienced old heads need to be kept match fit for our tilt and silverware so Murphy, Reidy and the front row etc's inclusion is not a shock, the last think they need is a long break before the Quins away game.
From 9 - 15 there's some pace and talent to say the least, it's a mobile pack as well with Izzy probably as quick as the backline.

Once again a so called dead rubber has become exciting. There's nothing dead about it

Ethan McIlroy 10/08/2000
Robert Baloucoune 19/08/1997
James Hume 07/09/1998
Stewart Moore 08/08/1999
Rob Lyttle 28/01/1997
Michael Lowry 20/08/1998

Hopefully Grandad Cooney will look after them

Well this game turned very weird, very quick, nobody knows what is meant to happen

Fantastic try from our young back line there!
Exciting future ahead for Ulster with their young players!

They look bright and McCann in the back row has done well too, bright futures ahead

Hard to say too much about the performance in the end given the way Zebre were weakened. Certainly Ulster youth looks promising, but not sure how much they can learn from that ‘give it a lash’ mindset.
And to be honest, despite the shoreline, we probably should have seen some more disciplined well worked scores. Mistakes and bad decisions are never ok, even in dead rubber games.

I don't think we can really say too much about last night given it was a bit of a farce really after the red card.

However one thing I was happy about is that near the end when Zebre were attacking and close to the line they really tried hard to keep them out (and did) so it was good to see that commitment to keeping them from scoring even though the game had been long won and it was a dead rubber, it's the right attitude.