Ulster Rugby 2022/2023

First topic message reminder :

Thought it was time for an update on the thread so this is the new all things Ulster thread.

I hope you guys are right about Lyttle and he plays a blinder this evening. I agree he's a good finisher but I must confess I'm not a big Lyttle fan. I get the impression he's happy to stand off and let others tackle when he can. He doesn't seem to relish the defensive part while someone like Baloucoune is putting in some great tackles. I insist, I'd be delighted to be proven wrong. Let's see.

That's not my impression scrummy, but we all see different things and have different views, and that's fine:hug: For me he is a better defender than Gilroy, Sexton and Moxham, but that's not exactly the same as him being an impassable brick wall . Gilroy seems past his best to me, Sexton has a long way to go, not sure on Moxham. I have no confidence in Addison's long term fitness unfortunately, so I think there will be room in the squad.

Anyway let's all agree we want to see some great tries this evening (from Ulster!).

Ulster have confirmed the signing of Rory Sutherland to end of season. Also strongly hinted in the same article on their website that Kitschoff will be joining after world cup too.

An easy win, in truth too easy.

Forwards were, on the whole good but worrying signs at prop for me.
EOS is going backwards, Moore off again and O'Toole is not kicking on.
Vermuelen and Timoney in tandem were excellent.
Timoney is now a thoroughbred and at International standard.
Murphy looks like a player ready to retire, bit like Reidy last year.
In fairness Carter had a very good game - credit where it is due.

In the backs both Madigan and Burns going off injured is a worry.
McCloskey and Marshall were superb.
With Hume coming back - interesting.

Lyttle put the debate about his defense as opposed to Gilroy and Sexton to bed.
He was good by contrast Gilroy defensively is a complete liability and Sexton remains a revolving door.

Lyttle is better in attack, in defense and as a kicker than the other two.

Overall though I was bit bored to be honest the opposition were beyond inept and we didn't need to
get out of second gear, in the second half to coast home.
We even played roulette with out backs to get Lowry game time at 10.
A 9 on the wing, a wing at 15, a wing in the centre.
You can only do that when the opposition is so poor you dont have to take them seriously

BAD NEWS

Addison had a second operation last month.
Will not be back this side of New Year for sure.

I think he is finished.

We simple cannot give a contract to a player who has started one game since the start of last season.

Sutherland announced to the end of the season.

Kitshoff all but announced as on a 3 year deal starting after the World Cup.

geoff999rugby wrote:BAD NEWS

Addison had a second operation last month.
Will not be back this side of New Year for sure.

I think he is finished.

We simple cannot give a contract to a player who has started one game since the start of last season.

That is bad news. Addison when fit is absolute quality but he never is. Such a shame.

geoff999rugby wrote:BAD NEWS

Addison had a second operation last month.
Will not be back this side of New Year for sure.

I think he is finished.

We simple cannot give a contract to a player who has started one game since the start of last season.

I would have off-loaded him some time ago as brutal as it may sound but this is a business and money can't be wasted. He's a game changing player with quality oozing from every pore but not from the physio suite.

Anyone remember when he put that post on social media about his 'comeback' and then it never happened. Obviously he must have had a further set back or something without even having played.

If a player gets hurt/re-injured in his own time - can the club take any action against them?

Not suggesting he did by the way - but it's a rabbit Hoel my brain has gone done.

Can the club tell players not to play five-a-side or skateboard for example?

A lot of money and medical treatment being paid out for not much in return.

clivemcl wrote:

If a player gets hurt/re-injured in his own time - can the club take any action against them?

.

Unless it is an overtly dangerous activity the answer is no and as far as I am aware this does not apply to Addison anyway.

Addison is saying he will be back for Zebre, I have been told this is very optimistic and it will be longer.

Marty Moore is concussed and wont travel to South Africa, Treadwell hurt in training and wont be avaiable either, Madigan to have an MRI scan on his knee (how unlucky was that btw, his own players falling into him, freak accident)

On a happier note the Emerging Ireland players should be available again and Sutherland will travel to South Africa with the squad too.

Timoney and Herring signed until 2025

Likely some tough negotiating there re Herring. I mean, an international hooker, but also a good few young hookers putting pressure on. He's done well there I'd say to get that length of contract extension.

Great news on Timoney.

On that note, does anyone know if there is a way to watch the Ireland A game?
Virgin media? Can we even get that? Can you pay to watch? I'm guessing not.

https://twitter.com/IrishRugby/status/1588221290749591556

Yeah it can be watched in NI via their online player

Stewart, Treadwell and Izzy all signed to 2026

Time to redo the full list

Great the key signings getting done early

2023

LHP - Andrew Warwick,Callum Reid, Eric O'Sullivan
Hooker – John Andrew
THP - Gareth Milasinovich, Jeffrety Toomunga-Allen
Lock - Alan O’Connor, Sam Carter, Iain Henderson, Frank Bradshaw
Backrow - David McCann, Duane Vermeulen, Jordi Murphy, Sean Reffell, Marcus Rea, Greg Jones
SH - John Cooney, David Shanahan
10 - Ian Madigan, Jake Flannery
Centre - Luke Marshall, Angus Curtis
Back 3 Player - Rob Lyttle, Jacob Stockdale, Aaron Sexton,  Will Addison , Craig Gilroy, Ben Moxham, Shea O'Brien (development contract 22/23)

2024

Hooker - Declan Moore
THP - Tom O’Toole, Marty Moore
Backrow - Matthew Rea
10 – Billy Burns
Centre - James Hume

2025

Hooker - Rob Herring
Backrow - Nick Timoney
Centre – Stuart McCloskey, Stewart Moore
Back 3 Player – Ethan McIlroy, Robert Baloucoune
10/15 - Michael Lowry

2026

Hooker - Tom Stewart
Lock - Cormac Izuchukwu, Kieran Treadwell
SH – Nathan Doak
Centre - Jude Postlethwaite (development contract 22/23)

Those in RED are the ones to look out for

The rest are either definitely leaving, out of our hands (Henderson, Stockdale) or would be not be a critical loss

Confirmed that Kitshoff is joining up after the World Cup.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/63570869

O'Connor and Marcus Rea till 2025

Of those outstanding I see no reason to delay Marshall, Reid, McCann, Andrew or Warwick
I expect all of those to be announced soon

Ulster's team for the weekend

Ulster: Stewart Moore; McIlroy, Hume, Marshall, Stockdale; Flannery, Doak; Reid, Stewart, Marty Moore; Izuchukwu, Carter; Matty Rea, Marcus Rea, Vermeulen (capt).

Replacements: Andrew, Warwick, Toomaga-Allen, Henderson, McCann, McDonald, Curtis, Moxham.

So Curtis is covering 10, or Doak?

Could do either or depending on situation although I assume they would prefer Curtis maybe?

I think Doak, think when Doak finished a game at OH, Curtis was on the bench. Think Doak is higher in the OH pecking order and Curtis is now primarily a centre and very low is the covering OH order.

O'Sullivan back in training for Ulster. Toomaga-Allen due to have MRI on the ankle injury he got subbed for.

Cooney talking about switching to Scotland https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/63811086

neilthom7 wrote:Cooney talking about switching to Scotland https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/63811086

I've just seen that. I wouldn't begrudge him the opportunity, particularly for the World Cup, but I can't really see Scotland coming calling in all seriousness. I think our Scottish fellow posters aren't overly convinced given his age and a number of other options, but who knows? Perhaps he has a better chance as a coach for either England or Wales

Cooney, at his best would definitely make a Scotland World Cup squad in my opinion.
But in saying that, I've also felt he has merited inclusion with Ireland over the last two years, so you just never know what way coaches view certain players.
Given it will be the World Cup, and then not much of an international career thereafter... I can only see Scotland going with it if they had a few injuries to their eligible scrum halves.

But I agree, I wouldn't begrudge him.

I've always thought he has been unlucky with Ireland as he has always been a pain in our, the Scarlets, backside over the years!

Ulster Rugby: We’d really like to re-sign Pienaar
IRFU: No!
Ulster Rugby: But why?
IRFU: We need to more Irish scrum halves getting game time
Ulster Rugby: We don’t think Marshal or Shanahan are good enough, do you?
IRFU: Agreed, but here, take this Cooney chap, we think he could be very good!
Ulster Rugby: Wow! You’re right, he is very good!
IRFU: Our plan worked!
Ulster Rugby: So when do Ireland want to use him then?
IRFU: Oh… umm… na… we don’t need him…

clivemcl wrote:Ulster Rugby: We’d really like to re-sign Pienaar
IRFU: No!
Ulster Rugby: But why?
IRFU: We need to more Irish scrum halves getting game time
Ulster Rugby: We don’t think Marshal or Shanahan are good enough, do you?
IRFU: Agreed, but here, take this Cooney chap, we think he could be very good!
Ulster Rugby: Wow! You’re right, he is very good!
IRFU: Our plan worked!
Ulster Rugby: So when do Ireland want to use him then?
IRFU: Oh… umm… na… we don’t need him…

That pretty much sums the whole saga up Clive.
It's a complete head scratcher that Casey gets called up before Cooney. Casey is as much out of his depth internationally as he would be in deep end of a swimming pool. Cooney has proven himself to be an excellent player who comes with a play maker role as well as being the slot machine goal kicker that he is. What a shame he's been shafted but it's a common trait of the IRFU to shaft Ulster 9's.

clivemcl wrote:Ulster Rugby: We’d really like to re-sign Pienaar
IRFU: No!
Ulster Rugby: But why?
IRFU: We need to more Irish scrum halves getting game time
Ulster Rugby: We don’t think Marshal or Shanahan are good enough, do you?
IRFU: Agreed, but here, take this Cooney chap, we think he could be very good!
Ulster Rugby: Wow! You’re right, he is very good!
IRFU: Our plan worked!
Ulster Rugby: So when do Ireland want to use him then?
IRFU: Oh… umm… na… we don’t need him…

Pretty much correct except the IRFU did not plan or expect the Cooney move. IRFU's plan was to refuse Pienaar and leave Ulster in the lurch, they had no plan in place, the great hope for SH not at a province was Hart playing in France, but he had already signed a contract to move to Munster. The IRFU just planned to leave Ulster with Marshall. They wouldnt have left Munster or Leinster in a hole like that. Ulster just got luckly that Cooney helped make the move himself and proved so good, wasn't the IRFUs brillant plan, it was just pure luck for Ulster, could have been very bad times for Ulster if Cooney didn't move.

Ulster team to play Leinster, BKT United Rugby Championship Round 9, Saturday 3 December at RDS Arena (KO 7 35pm), live on TG4, Viaplay & URC.tv.

(15-9): Michael Lowry, Ethan McIlroy, James Hume, Stuart McCloskey, Stewart Moore, Billy Burns, John Cooney;

(1-8): Andy Warwick, Tom Stewart, Marty Moore, Alan O’Connor, Kieran Treadwell, Iain Henderson (Captain), Marcus Rea, Nick Timoney.

Replacements: Rob Herring, Callum Reid, Tom O’Toole, Sam Carter, Duane Vermeulen, Nathan Doak, Jacob Stockdale, Matty Rea.

Kingshu wrote:Ulster team to play Leinster, BKT United Rugby Championship Round 9, Saturday 3 December at RDS Arena (KO 7 35pm), live on TG4, Viaplay & URC.tv.

(15-9): Michael Lowry, Ethan McIlroy, James Hume, Stuart McCloskey, Stewart Moore, Billy Burns, John Cooney;

(1-8): Andy Warwick, Tom Stewart, Marty Moore, Alan O’Connor, Kieran Treadwell, Iain Henderson (Captain), Marcus Rea, Nick Timoney.

Replacements: Rob Herring, Callum Reid, Tom O’Toole, Sam Carter, Duane Vermeulen, Nathan Doak, Jacob Stockdale, Matty Rea.

Strange selection in the backrow, that could cost yous.

I don't know, its a bit left field but that may surprise Leinster, Henderson played backrow a good bit, but hasnt in years, 3 line out jumpers and lots of weight behind the scrum may be a masterstroke I think Timoney is best at 8, and DV to come off the bench. Extra forward on bench too, with Lowry/Doak covering OH. Its a bold move by DMcF, hope it pays off.

Kingshu wrote:I don't know, its a bit left field but that may surprise Leinster, Henderson played backrow a good bit, but hasnt  in years, 3 line out jumpers and lots of weight behind the scrum may be a masterstroke  I think Timoney is best at 8, and DV to come off the bench. Extra forward on bench too, with Lowry/Doak covering OH. Its a bold move by DMcF, hope it pays off.

I don't think it'll work but happy to be proven wrong. Very interested in seeing how Marty gets on, I really think he still has a place in that Ireland squad. On another note the big games just keep on coming and more strong teams named from both sides. The standard of the league has been something else this year.

They may be thinking they need an extra lineout jumper in there hence Hendo in back row. It's a bold move alright but that is what Dan is paid for.

There's very few gimme games in the league anymore, the South African's have forced teams to get better if they want to make the money of Champions Cup etc

Well that’s a sickener. I think it’s very easy to just say ‘Leinster are another level’, but I think that’s a kop out. That was Ulsters to lose, and lose it they did.

Not often you will be offered a significant lead against Leinster with the chance of a man advantage for 3/4 the game.

If we can’t finish that off, we don’t deserve to be in the conversation of top teams in Europe… or even top teams in the URC at this stage with the SA teams stepping up.

Stormers wouldn’t have squandered a similar opportunity.

That said, I really disagree with the Hume card. The red said the change in direction reduced it from red to yellow. For me, the sudden step towards Hume excuses him entirely. I mean, you watch that in real time. Hume knew very little about it until Ringrose smashed his face into his. If you freeze frame, you see Ringrose leaning forward into the head contact, and Hume was, to be fair, the receiver of the head contact, due to Ringrose suddenly stepping into him.

That was utterly gutting on Saturday night, I can usually brush those losses off, especially away losses in Dublin but this one has been difficult to take. It's a match that should have been won and against a lesser side would have been.
The turning point for me was when we lost Cooney, he was clearly out cold for some time after Lowe illegally smashed him with his forearm. The referee completely bottled the decision and refused to even sanction the act let alone the player. Lowe, IMO should have left the field at that point, every time I've seen that happen in recent years it's been a red card. Yet not long after, he yellow cards Hume and Timoney for doing little wrong.
I was apoplectic to say the least.

I thought Healy, Lowe and Hume could all have been red tbh. Stop targeting heads. This just needs to be eliminated from the game. Valentini did a similar high head clash against Ireland recently too. Bend the hips.

What were Ulster thinking though. They had Leinster well beaten. Had figured out that you just do two phases in the left side 15m channel, then spin the ball wide to the opposite 15m channel on the right of the pitch and you'll hit paydirt every time.  They did it once.

They had Leinster in their pocket. They had the crowd silenced (it's always relatively quiet, but the crowd was resigned to a loss). Leinster were set for the beating. And Rea starts making gestures to the crowd.... you absolute genius. When a team is messing up and the home crowd isn't engaged, don't interfere, let them beat themselves. They start throwing out trigger moments on the road. Fair dues last season, Hume was putting the exclamation point on the match result while scoring a try, that was a death-nail moment and a class player. But Rea?

Whilst I absolutely agree players need to go lower, I still feel it is ridiculous in the Hume instance. Hume was chasing Ringrose who was heading away from him and then suddenly that player steps off his right foot in a head on collision towards the player chasing him. Hume has zero time to react.

If it happened off the field, anyone concerned would ask only one question 'Whose head was directed ted into whose?'
Ringrose was the one who caused the head contact, and Hume could not realistically be expected to adjust so quickly.

What's the rule now, everyone should run around in a squat because you never know when somebody will change direction into you?

It's a bit ridiculous. And not even remotely comparable to Cain Healy who lined up the player face to face and chose not to dip.

clivemcl wrote:Whilst I absolutely agree players need to go lower, I still feel it is ridiculous in the Hume instance. Hume was chasing Ringrose who was heading away from him and then suddenly that player steps off his right foot in a head on collision towards the player chasing him. Hume has zero time to react.

If it happened off the field, anyone concerned would ask only one question 'Whose head was directed ted into whose?'
Ringrose was the one who caused the head contact, and Hume could not realistically be expected to adjust so quickly.

What's the rule now, everyone should run around in a squat because you never know when somebody will change direction into you?

It's a bit ridiculous. And not even remotely comparable to Cain Healy who lined up the player face to face and chose not to dip.

I said 'could' not 'should. All three players went in with contact to heads. That puts a decision on the plate of the referee to decide on... Rugby is all about interpretation. Any of those 3 types of contacts get repeated during the European fixtures over the next two weeks and 'could' easily be a red card. These pool formats don't allow much wriggle room to write-off an entire result. Players need to be smarter.

thebandwagonsociety wrote:I thought Healy, Lowe and Hume could all have been red tbh. Stop targeting heads. This just needs to be eliminated from the game. Valentini did a similar high head clash against Ireland recently too. Bend the hips.

What were Ulster thinking though. They had Leinster well beaten. Had figured out that you just do two phases in the left side 15m channel, then spin the ball wide to the opposite 15m channel on the right of the pitch and you'll hit paydirt every time.  They did it once.

They had Leinster in their pocket. They had the crowd silenced (it's always relatively quiet, but the crowd was resigned to a loss). Leinster were set for the beating. And Rea starts making gestures to the crowd.... you absolute genius. When a team is messing up and the home crowd isn't engaged, don't interfere, let them beat themselves. They start throwing out trigger moments on the road. Fair dues last season, Hume was putting the exclamation point on the match result while scoring a try, that was a death-nail moment and a class player. But Rea?

The Hume instance was never a red card, mitigation made sure of that and there definately was mititgation. Probably a yellow given referee's interpretations these days but after bottling giving anything at all against Lowe the mind boggles in reference to his interpretations on the night. For me Lowe was a nailed on red, no question but the ref bottled the decision to reduce Leinster to 13. He didn't bottle reducing Ulster to 13 when already on the ropes. I can always take a referee's interpretation slip ups but one so blatant and match turning can't be as easily ignored.

Pete330v2 wrote:

thebandwagonsociety wrote:I thought Healy, Lowe and Hume could all have been red tbh. Stop targeting heads. This just needs to be eliminated from the game. Valentini did a similar high head clash against Ireland recently too. Bend the hips.

What were Ulster thinking though. They had Leinster well beaten. Had figured out that you just do two phases in the left side 15m channel, then spin the ball wide to the opposite 15m channel on the right of the pitch and you'll hit paydirt every time.  They did it once.

They had Leinster in their pocket. They had the crowd silenced (it's always relatively quiet, but the crowd was resigned to a loss). Leinster were set for the beating. And Rea starts making gestures to the crowd.... you absolute genius. When a team is messing up and the home crowd isn't engaged, don't interfere, let them beat themselves. They start throwing out trigger moments on the road. Fair dues last season, Hume was putting the exclamation point on the match result while scoring a try, that was a death-nail moment and a class player. But Rea?

The Hume instance was never a red card, mitigation made sure of that and there definately was mititgation. Probably a yellow given referee's interpretations these days but after bottling giving anything at all against Lowe the mind boggles in reference to his interpretations on the night. For me Lowe was a nailed on red, no question but the ref bottled the decision to reduce Leinster to 13. He didn't bottle reducing Ulster to 13 when already on the ropes. I can always take a referee's interpretation slip ups but one so blatant and match turning can't be as easily ignored.

The match had turned long before that incident, the Cooney missed conversion and then Leinster scoring just before half time was huge. Let's not forget the ref missed a blatant knock on from McCloskey when Leinster were near the Ulster try line. But the most bizarre call of the match was the TMO giving a no arms tackle against Byrne, when he was simply diving on a loose ball.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Pete330v2 wrote:

thebandwagonsociety wrote:I thought Healy, Lowe and Hume could all have been red tbh. Stop targeting heads. This just needs to be eliminated from the game. Valentini did a similar high head clash against Ireland recently too. Bend the hips.

What were Ulster thinking though. They had Leinster well beaten. Had figured out that you just do two phases in the left side 15m channel, then spin the ball wide to the opposite 15m channel on the right of the pitch and you'll hit paydirt every time.  They did it once.

They had Leinster in their pocket. They had the crowd silenced (it's always relatively quiet, but the crowd was resigned to a loss). Leinster were set for the beating. And Rea starts making gestures to the crowd.... you absolute genius. When a team is messing up and the home crowd isn't engaged, don't interfere, let them beat themselves. They start throwing out trigger moments on the road. Fair dues last season, Hume was putting the exclamation point on the match result while scoring a try, that was a death-nail moment and a class player. But Rea?

The Hume instance was never a red card, mitigation made sure of that and there definately was mititgation. Probably a yellow given referee's interpretations these days but after bottling giving anything at all against Lowe the mind boggles in reference to his interpretations on the night. For me Lowe was a nailed on red, no question but the ref bottled the decision to reduce Leinster to 13. He didn't bottle reducing Ulster to 13 when already on the ropes. I can always take a referee's interpretation slip ups but one so blatant and match turning can't be as easily ignored.

The match had turned long before that incident, the Cooney missed conversion and then Leinster scoring just before half time was huge. Let's not forget the ref missed a blatant knock on from McCloskey when Leinster were near the Ulster try line. But the most bizarre call of the match was the TMO giving a no arms tackle against Byrne, when he was simply diving on a loose ball.

Yeah completely missed that McCloskey knock and at the time I wasn't going to complain. The Byrne one was strange as it clearly wasn't a no arms tackle yet that fact seemed to elude the reffing team.

I don't believe the match turned on the Leinster first half score. Ulster should have and seemed to have dealt with it and continued in the vein they'd been in. Cooney still had the control over proceedings that Doak severely lacked. If it didn't turn on that moment it was certainly a huge contribution to Ulster throwing in the towel.

The thing is, I think I was a little too comfortable at half time. 12 point lead against 14 men with 40 to go, yes please. Then you remember, looking back that this was Leinster in Dublin. 12 points and a man down wouldn't phase a Leinster team but could the opposite be said about Ulster and their level of complacency? Leinster have the big game players with the big game mentality, Ulster not so much.

Ulster should have won that game, there's no real excuse for them failing to do so tbh.

I missed the Lowe challenge so can't talk about it but regardless of that Ulster were a man up and a few tries to the good and should have put that game away.

Credit to Leinster for sticking with it and coming back but Ulster's players need to take a look at themselves after that one.

That's going to be hard to recover from as well and with an important match this weekend probably couldn't have happened at a worse time

Genuine question: Is Luke Marshall injured?

scrummy wrote:Genuine question: Is Luke Marshall injured?

He'd better be or Dan's selection policy needs reviewing. He can cover 12, 13, 10 and 15, he should be in the 23 if he can be in the 23.

(15-9): Mike Lowry, Ethan McIlroy, James Hume, Stuart McCloskey, Jacob Stockdale, Billy Burns, Nathan Doak;

(1-8): Andy Warwick, Rob Herring, Tom O’Toole, Alan O’Connor (Captain), Kieran Treadwell, Matty Rea, Nick Timoney, Duane Vermeulen.

Replacements: Tom Stewart, Eric O’Sullivan, Marty Moore, Sam Carter, Marcus Rea, Dave Shanahan, Stewart Moore, Ben Moxham.


I'll not lie, the loss to Leinster has me worried about where we are at as a team right now. I'm not overly confident about this afternoon's fixture.

Stockdale hasn't been like his old self and yet starts, we will miss Cooney. Hume also hasn't been his old self really. Moore on the bench who didn't have a great game last week.

Perhaps I'm being too negative.

I'm hoping for a few line out maul scores from Herring early on to maybe give us some confidence.

That said, we've proven ourselves to be capable of coughing up games even with sizeable leads.

We simply need to be at the races from minute 1 to minute 80+.

Hoping Stockade and Hume decide to show their class today along with McCloskey.

That was a complete and utter disgrace.
The worse performance, bar none, I have watched live.
Worse than the 43-0 defeat at Ospreys in 2008.
At least then the players tried and were guttered with the result
(I personally had chats with Danielli and Trimble and can vouch for that)

Yesterday by contrast Hume and Doak were smiling and joking at the end and Treadwell didn't seem bothered at all.
Timoney was the only one I saw who took the defeat hard.

The management need to make a statement this weekend and apologise in public to the travelling fans.
Also don't buy the disrupted flight crap - Leinster had 7 hours of delays - they seemed to get a decent result.
I fear what we will get is 'less than ideal preparation, we were so poor everyone deserve another chance and a largely unchanged team'
That would be completely the wrong thing to do.

My team for this weekend
Warwick, Stewart, Moore, Henderson, Izzy, Marcus Rea, Vermuelen, Timoney, Cooney, Flannery, Lyttle, McCloskey, Marshall/Moore, Moxom, Lowry
Subs: Reid, Andrew, O'Toole, Carter, Murphy/McCann, Shanahan, Madigan, Curtis/Moore (depends if Marshall is fit or not)

That is dropping 10 of the Sale starters, 9 of them out of the 23.
O'Toole is only kept because Milasonivich and it looks like Toomunga-Allen are both a complete waste of contracts
NOBODY is too big to drop.  

It is the lack of effort I cant stomach.
Also I am now of the opinion that some yougsters are too big for their boots.
We had rumours about McCann last year and I reckon we are seeing the same from Doak and Hume this year.
As to Doak he was out played by Shanners.
Shanners came on, and is probably the weakest player in 23, but on the day he was as good as anybody - speaks volumes

One huge beef our defense has gone totally to pot since Payne left.
I had defended Cunningham here but giving the job to his old mucker Ding Dong is a joke.
Never up to the job and it is showing big time.
McFarland has to be equally  to blame.

Our performances this year have not come close to last year.
One decent win in South Africa but that's it.
When we have played a decent side we have been well beaten - Lenster twice and Sale.
Sure we have beaten Ospreys, Scarlets, Zabre, Connacht and Munster but lets be honest on the day those opposition were piss poor.

Very different set of fixtures coming up now.
La Rochelle x2, Sale, Stormers, a much improved Munster plus Connacht and Treviso away.
Unless something changes that is, at best 2 wins.

What about showing common respect and concern for Ulster regulars.
Compensate in some way those who travelled to watch that rubbish.
ST holders are increasingly being taken for granted - giving out cheap tickets for the Zebre game for example.
So someone who has a £30 standing ticket on their ST sees the person next to them getting in for £15.
What is the compensation 500 of you will get a free pint.
I know beer is expensive but not yet at £15 and regardless the vast majority of ST holders get nothing.

I will not be buying an ST next year - too many game that aren't competitive against weak Welsh, Italian and Scottish opposition.
Just go to the game that look interesting, aren't on TV sand the weathers nice.
We don't sell out any more anyway.

Mind you if we play like that again we will be at the Welsh, Italian and Scottish level.