World T20 discussion thread

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

First topic message reminder :

This is fast approaching in the UAE, and squads are beginning to be announced. England have announced theirs this morning

England's preliminary squad for the World T20;

Jason Roy
Jos Buttler
Dawid Malan
Jonny Bairstow
Liam Livingstone
Eoin Morgan
Sam Billings
Moeen Ali
Sam Curran
Chris Woakes
David Willey
Adil Rashid
Mark Wood
Chris Jordan
Tymal Mills

Reserves: James Vince, Liam Dawson, Tom Curran

Looks a solid squad, albeit the team has taken a hit in recent months with Archer's injury and then Stokes's withdrawal from international duty.
Billings in as the main batting backup, makes sense to me. He's played well in limited opportunity the past few summers.
I am a touch surprised both Woakes and Willey are in the squad...seems like they both do the same role to me?
Seems harsh, but happy no Tom Curran. He's not played well enough to be included.
I see some "why no Parkinson?" and it does seem a tad weird he isn't in reserve...but ultimately in T20 can you afford to carry someone like him, who while is a good bowler, is a liability in the field and offers absolutely nothing with the bat. I can see why Dawson is the chosen reserve over him, with those considerations.

I think the likely XI is;

Roy
Buttler
Malan
Bairstow
Livingstone
Morgan
Ali
Woakes
Rashid
Wood
Mills

The real selection choices in there are between Woakes/Jordan, and Moeen/Sam Curran. Rest looks fairly set in stone to me

[KP_fan]

Ohh Boyy...they need to bat out 20 overs.......and then we are in the game
Don't do a WI....Indians

[KP_fan]

Wow...WTF did they review that so confidently

[king_carlos]

Shakib didn't even bowl the full quota in the end. Some ludicrous captaincy and poor fielding in the deep has cost Bangladesh, they lost a game which was in the bag.

Agreed but also worth noting that Sri Lanka hit 9 sixes to Bangladesh's 1 six. Clearing the rope could be a recurring issue for Bangladesh I think.

[king_carlos]

Shaheen is a superstar

He's just brilliant. Up there with Rashid Khan, Starc, Bumrah and Archer as the best T20 bowlers in the world.

Shaheen is an incredibly entertaining cricketer to watch as well.

[king_carlos]

Oh Rishabh

Back to back one handed sixes.

[king_carlos]

Jadeja ahead of Pandya is interesting. I'm guessing that running between the wickets with the big outfield is part of that at this stage. Kohli and Jadeja are two of the quickest in the world running between the wickets.

[KP_fan]

140 would be defendable...but I am not sure we are getting there

[KP_fan]

Jadeja ahead of Pandya is interesting. I'm guessing that running between the wickets with the big outfield is part of that at this stage. Kohli and Jadeja are two of the quickest in the world running between the wickets.

Naah....they want Pandya in last 3overs

[JDizzle]

Jadeja ahead of Pandya is interesting. I'm guessing that running between the wickets with the big outfield is part of that at this stage. Kohli and Jadeja are two of the quickest in the world running between the wickets.

Naah....they want Pandya in last  3overs

A waste. Jadeja being 8 off 10 in the 17th over is not good.

[king_carlos]

Hasan Ali has been expensive in the context of this match. Not sure I'd have gone back to him there with 5 overs available between Shaheen, Wasim and Rauf.

[KP_fan]

I will take 140 although we might get a bit more

[king_carlos]

Cracking innings from Virat in the situation.

Excellent from Shaheen yet again though. This Pakistan side has some issues with balance and batting after the openers but their bowling led by Shaheen will always give them a chance.

[king_carlos]

Just as I praise Shaheen that was a diabolical end. No ball on the final delivery goes for 4 then a ludicrously unnecessary shy at the stumps gives them 4 overthrows of the seventh delivery.

[Duty281]

151 is a good, solid score. Agree that it was a cracking innings from Kohli, he was the guiding anchor that kept his team together - something the West Indies lacked yesterday.

[CaledonianCraig]

Pakistan off to a very good start. They are 22 for 0 after 3 overs. Nicely poised matched this one.

[king_carlos]

Great stuff from Bumrah and Chakravarthy. 6 runs from 2 overs drags it right back.

11 runs from Shami's 5th though.

I feel that if India can break this partnership they will be right in the drivers seat.

[Duty281]

Yes, good start from Pakistan, but they're very top-heavy in terms of quality. Don't really rate their batting highly from 5-6 downwards.

[JDizzle]

I can’t believe Malik is still playing! That is two players in this tournament who made international debuts in a different millennium.

[king_carlos]

I think they've got a brilliant top 3 in Rizwan, Babar and Zaman. Then Asif Ali is a very good hitter at 6.

I'm really not sure about having both Malik and Hafeez in the middle order though. With that middle order I'd guess that Pakistan are aiming to take games very deep, not worry about the run rate going up a bit if they have wickets in hand. With Asif Ali being their only real hitter of note that could be a lot of pressure on him as a finisher though.

[king_carlos]

Babar needed that six. His strike rate was still below a run a ball and the RRR was starting to climb.

If those two can stay together long enough to force Virat to use Bumrah before the death then Pakistan will be right in control.

[Duty281]

Pakistan in cruise control. Really sensible, measured chase from them.

Not quite home yet - have seen a few games in the IPL where the chasing side is cruising, then they lose 2-3 quick wickets and the chase stalls - but for now it's looking like a result which will mean Group 2 is wide open.

[king_carlos]

Chakravarthy goes for 16 in the 13th over. That should be the game.

100 partnership up and 50 for Babar in the process.

This opening partnership are very good and should suit these conditions better than many batting lineups will.

[KP_fan]

Bowlers have let India down
Bhuvi, spinners, no one really stood up

[Guest]

Cricket not really my bag but a couple of questions:
How comes the WC is played so soon? Didn't England only recently win the WC?
Why do they play in the evening when the conditions favour one side? Seems to reduce the skill factor to more luck based.

[king_carlos]

Rizwan manipulates the ball so well. His wrists are brilliant. Just works the ball wherever he wants to.

[JDizzle]

Cricket not really my bag but a couple of questions:
How comes the WC is played so soon? Didn't England only recently win the WC?
Why do they play in the evening when the conditions favour one side? Seems to reduce the skill factor to more luck based.

This is a T20 WC - the last one of which was in 2016. The one England won was a 50 over WC.

And it is the only way to fit two games in a day - the conditions are helpful, but they don’t change things that much.

[king_carlos]

Cricket not really my bag but a couple of questions:
How comes the WC is played so soon? Didn't England only recently win the WC?
Why do they play in the evening when the conditions favour one side? Seems to reduce the skill factor to more luck based.

Hi Jeff!

England won the 50 over World Cup in 2019. This is the 20 over World Cup which due partly to covid hasn't been played since 2016.

They play in the evenings for bigger crowds and revenues of course. The dew in day-night cricket is a big factor that surprisingly little is being done to deal with, frustratingly.

That said the toss has always been a big factor in all forms of cricket due to it being such a conditions reliant game. As such fans are more used to the toss being a factor.

[king_carlos]

Rizwan is lightning running between the wickets.

It's an area that has seen a gigantic improvement across all forms of cricket with the rise of T20.

[CaledonianCraig]

Mighty impressive win for Pakistan against their biggest rivals India. They chased down the total without losing a wicket. Pakistan have been the better team in all departments.

[Guest]

Thanks for the replies KC and JD.
Sorry to sound clueless but is the prestige the same for 50 vs 20 WC?

[Duty281]

That was an utter thrashing in the end. India's bowling didn't lay a glove on the Pakistani openers. A week until India's next game, so plenty of time for them to stew.

[king_carlos]

Thanks for the replies KC and JD.
Sorry to sound clueless but is the prestige the same for 50 vs 20 WC?

I'd say very similar these days if not the T20 World Cup having more hype and interest around the world. Given the specific phrasing of 'prestige' the 50 over World Cup naturally has more history behind it as it's been around longer.

There are still some cricket fans who's default position is to despise T20 cricket as they view it as a diluted, bastardised form of the game. The shorter the form the more pointless to some basically.

Whilst Test cricket is my favourite form to follow I really love T20 cricket. I think the innovation and development it's brought to the game has been magnificent.

[KP_fan]

India's game vs NZ would be a QF knock out

[KP_fan]

India's game vs NZ would be a QF knock out

[king_carlos]

Terrific win for Pakistan. They might have limitations but that top 3 and bowling attack will always make them dangerous.

India's biggest worry might be Bhuvi looking a long way from his best. Their batting has the class to come good and Ishan is a naturally aggressive option to look at if needed. They will really need Bhuvi's PP bowling in these conditions though.

[guildfordbat]

Thanks for the replies KC and JD.
Sorry to sound clueless but is the prestige the same for 50 vs 20 WC?

Hi Jeff - you ain't clueless at all! That's a PhD question.

I was about to say I look forward to any answers answer but see that Carlos has already had a very decent stab.

[VTR]

My personal view is the 50 over is still THE World Cup. As in, that's the closest equivalent in Cricket to winning the Football World Cup, which doesn't have a 5 a side version to confuse matters!

England won the T20 World Cup in 2010, but I always felt until we won the 50 over version we'd never really been World Champions. As others have said though, as the T20 version develops more history that view could change

[Soul Requiem]

I'd personally say the 50 over competition is the one to win and has more prestige than the money making machine of T20. I didn't give a toss when we won the T20 World Cup whenever that was.

[JDizzle]

I'd personally say the 50 over competition is the one to win and has more prestige than the money making machine of T20. I didn't give a toss when we won the T20 World Cup whenever that was.

I think the T20 WC has definitely grown since that edition tbf. The lack of consistency in when they are scheduled still hurts it though. The fact it isn’t every four years does take away the prestige somewhat.

2007, 2009, 2010, 2012, 2014, 2016, 2021, 2022. Absolutely no logic whatsoever. Doesn’t really help people who want to argue it isn’t just a money making exercise!

The 2019 WC was the perfect storm of a home WC and England playing super modern and exciting cricket. Not sure it has the same effect on me if it was abroad.

[king_carlos]

There are certainly more sides playing T20 cricket at a competitive level internationally than there are ODI sides I think. Which makes the T20 World Cup a lot more open. I can certainly say that several games from the first round of this World Cup drew me in more than any non-England game in the 2019 World Cup for instance.

I've never been the biggest 50 over cricket fan though I think in large part to the dire style of cricket England insisted on playing in it whilst I was growing up. The thought of Michael Vaughan getting 86 ODI caps with an average of 27, strike rate of 68 and no centuries still makes me want to curl up in the fetal position.

I enjoy 50 over as I'm very much a cricket fan who loves all cricket (these are surprisingly rate it sometimes feels). I'd say it's my least favourite format though.

[VTR]

I actually had no idea the T20 was again next year. I thought it had gone to the more regular 4 year as last year was supposed to be the first one since 2016. Seems there is definitely one in 2022 and 2024, so I'll stick with 50 over being harder to win in terms of skillset needed and not taking place very often

[king_carlos]

I actually had no idea the T20 was again next year. I thought it had gone to the more regular 4 year as last year was supposed to be the first one since 2016. Seems there is definitely one in 2022 and 2024, so I'll stick with 50 over being harder to win in terms of skillset needed and not taking place very often

There was a plan to move it to every four years, then they went back to every two. Hence the planned 2016, 2020, 2022, 2024 schedule. Then covid threw a spanner in the works so 2020 became 2021.

I'd prefer every four years but I think there is merit in every 2 years from the associate nations perspective in particular. For me growing the game outside of the Test nations is a vital role that T20 internationals can perform. The beauty of T20 is it can be completed quickly as well. This tournament including a first round that was excellent value is going to be completed in exactly 4 weeks.

My main bug bear with T20i is too many pointless bilateral series. The vast majority are played at below the level of cricket you see in many T20 franchise leagues and miles below the IPL. Franchise T20 is largely a better quality, more entertaining and provides vital income for domestic cricket around the world. I'd prefer T20i to largely be limited to the World Cup.

[Guest]

Thanks everyone for the explanation for 50 vs 20 WC. Pretty interesting for someone like me. Maybe Italy will get ago one

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Thanks everyone for the explanation for 50 vs 20 WC. Pretty interesting for someone like me. Maybe Italy will get ago one

Not with Jade Dernbach now in the side they won't...eh Guildford

[guildfordbat]

Thanks everyone for the explanation for 50 vs 20 WC. Pretty interesting for someone like me. Maybe Italy will get ago one

Not with Jade Dernbach now in the side they won't...eh Guildford

Almost certainly not. I think Dernbach's ship sailed some time ago.

[guildfordbat]

Just remembered. Within a few minutes of meeting my elder daughter for the first time in a Guildford nightclub a good few years back, Jade bought her a glass of Champagne.

It really should have been Pinot Grigio!

[king_carlos]

Poor Jade. It felt like in the space of one tournament he went from being an innovative limited overs bowler to a punchline in the cricketing world. It's not like he's the first bowler to get taken apart by AB de Villiers either!

I knew Jade was playing for Italy but had no idea that Gareth Berg (county stalwart is the Ice Man!) and Grant Stewart (Kent all-rounder) were as well. Berg is even skippering them. Their coach has certainly got his moneys worth from that ancestry.com subscription.

[alfie]

One thing we can take from this game : scoring runs here is a lot easier than the other venues !

Sri Lanka home with an over to spare and I see them as a bit of a dark horse in this group. Excellent partnership for the fifth wicket to take that away from the Tigers...

Hi Alfie - I realise you're not putting the family savings on Sri Lanka but I'm still more doubtful. Their bowling seemed pretty ordinary and, as Duty and Olly have rightly emphasised, their win owed more to Bangladesh's failings (dreadful drops and even worse captaincy as to bowling options) than their own strengths.

Hi guildford : true I won't be off to the betting shop (I am not one for betting on any two-legged performers in truth!) but I just have a feeling they have been a little harshly disregarded. In this form of the game - where just a couple of players can turn a game quickly - it is unwise to write anyone off ; and although they lack the stars of some other teams and their record over the last few years is not too flash it seems to me they are in a good run of form right now after comfortable qualification and a first-up group win . A few young players who perhaps aren't too well known ; and a variety of bowlers (although they didn't get it right in this game) - plus what appears to be a bit of confidence...

Tougher games ahead , sure ; and this may well prove their high point. But I just won't be shocked if they surprise a couple of teams. We will see.

[alfie]

What about India/Pakistan , eh ? Not too many saw that coming , I'll bet.

Didn't see a lot of the Indian innings but I guess having got off to such a wobbly start they'd have thought 150 was adequate , given the difficulty other teams were having batting on this ? But Pakistan just blew their bowlers away after a measured start : with wickets in hand and the dew coming on it just never looked as if the total was really defendable. Pakistan are pretty devastating on their "good" days ; and this was one of them.

India won't be hitting the panic button. But their clash with NZ will be a big one in this context...

[guildfordbat]

One thing we can take from this game : scoring runs here is a lot easier than the other venues !

Sri Lanka home with an over to spare and I see them as a bit of a dark horse in this group. Excellent partnership for the fifth wicket to take that away from the Tigers...

Hi Alfie - I realise you're not putting the family savings on Sri Lanka but I'm still more doubtful. Their bowling seemed pretty ordinary and, as Duty and Olly have rightly emphasised, their win owed more to Bangladesh's failings (dreadful drops and even worse captaincy as to bowling options) than their own strengths.

Hi guildford : true I won't be off to the betting shop (I am not one for betting on any two-legged performers in truth!) but I just have a feeling they have been a little harshly disregarded. In this form of the game - where just a couple of players can turn a game quickly - it is unwise to write anyone off ; and although they lack the stars of some other teams and their record over the last few years is not too flash it seems to me they are in a good run of form right now after comfortable qualification and a first-up group win . A few young players who perhaps aren't too well known ; and a variety of bowlers (although they didn't get it right in this game) - plus what appears to be a bit of confidence...

Tougher games ahead , sure ; and this may well prove their high point. But I just won't be shocked if they surprise a couple of teams. We will see.

Hi Alfie - And, as Carlos flagged, they are certainly capable of hitting the ball over the ropes.

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