Premiership round 4

by king_carlos Wed 6 Oct 2021 - 14:41

Friday 8 October
19:45 Quins vs Bristol

Saturday 9 October
15:00 Chiefs vs Worcester
15:00 Gloucester vs Sale
15:00 LI vs Tigers
15:00 Saracens vs Falcons

Sunday 10 October
Wasps vs Saints

Bye week for Bath.

I'd expect Quins, Chiefs and Sarries to be too strong at home in their respective fixtures.

Sarries vs Falcons could be interesting if Sarries continue to play without the ball as the Falcons talented outside backs can score tries from nowhere. I'd expect the Sarries power up front to prove too much over the 80 minutes though.

Sale haven't had the best start without Faf and losing MacGinty on top of him has been a big blow. Gloucester aren't the best side either though so Sale will definitely have a good chance there. Rodd and Tuilagi rotating out after the England camp seemed to hurt them against Chiefs. Given Lawes returned last weekend I'd guess that Tom Curry will be close to available as well.

Tigers will fancy an away win against LI but I think it will be a good challenge for Tigers. Whilst Tigers have overall been good in the opening 3 rounds I think it was noticeable that Isiekwe caused so many issues. Witty/Lonsdale, Slater/Davidson, Isiekwe/Swinson aren't the most formidable lock pairings. Isiekwe is by far the best player there and caused a lot of issues. I think Coleman and Simmons with Mafi off the bench will be a good challenge for Tigers locks. I definitely fancy Tigers chances but hope we play with the ball more as we did in rounds 1 and 2 rather than being as conservative as we were against Sarries when realistically both sides played some pretty abysmal rugby for large swathes of the game.

Saints will definitely fancy an away win against Wasps with how each side have started their seasons.

by No 7&1/2 Wed 6 Oct 2021 - 15:24

Don't think losing Quirke has helped Sale either as he was a bright spark for them.

by king_carlos Wed 6 Oct 2021 - 15:41

No 7&1/2 wrote:Don't think losing Quirke has helped Sale either as he was a bright spark for them.

True. Faf and Quirke is first and second choice 9 out for Sale.

by WELL-PAST-IT Wed 6 Oct 2021 - 15:53

king_carlos wrote:Friday 8 October

Saints will definitely fancy an away win against Wasps with how each side have started their seasons.

I am not so sure, they have scraped wins in the last two games and last week I am not sure they deserved it. If they can start like they did last week and keep it up for 70 minutes then they should be okay, but Wasps can rip you apart in a ten minutes spell.

Saints are spoilt for choice in the backs and you could perm any number of centres and back three without weakening the side much, they also have a few players that may be fit for consideration like Big T and Francis. The back row needs to be solid to match the Wasps BR, Lawes, Ludlam and Augustus for me with Ribbans and Ratuniyarawa in the boiler room. Plenty of lineout presence with grunt as well.

by king_carlos Wed 6 Oct 2021 - 15:58

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:
king_carlos wrote:Friday 8 October

Saints will definitely fancy an away win against Wasps with how each side have started their seasons.

I am not so sure, they have scraped wins in the last two games and last week I am not sure they deserved it. If they can start like they did last week and keep it up for 70 minutes then they should be okay, but Wasps can rip you apart in a ten minutes spell.

Saints are spoilt for choice in the backs and you could perm any number of centres and back three without weakening the side much, they also have a few players that may be fit for consideration like Big T and Francis. The back row needs to be solid to match the Wasps BR, Lawes, Ludlam and Augustus for me with Ribbans and Ratuniyarawa in the boiler room. Plenty of lineout presence with grunt as well.

It's a Wasps back row shorn of many stars though. Oghre started at openside last weekend. Jack Willis, Young and Carr all unavailable.

Launchbury in the row. Odogwu and Fekitoa in the centre. Minozzi at fullback.

Hougaard also yet to feature though Robson is fit.

It's a heavily depleted Wasps side.

by No 7&1/2 Wed 6 Oct 2021 - 17:27

No surprise to see Dan Kelly getba 3 game ban. Really don't understand how the officials all missed something so obvious.

by king_carlos Wed 6 Oct 2021 - 17:29

No 7&1/2 wrote:No surprise to see Dan Kelly getba 3 game ban. Really don't understand how the officials all missed something so obvious.

Yep, Tigers got lucky there.

I think the TMO tried to raise it but Ridley's mind was made up about Davies challenge.

It was a strange game with a lot of dire rugby played by both sides.

by formerly known as Sam Wed 6 Oct 2021 - 18:26

No 7&1/2 wrote:No surprise to see Dan Kelly getba 3 game ban. Really don't understand how the officials all missed something so obvious.

Yeah given previous citings it was a cut and dry three week ban.

Socino played well off the bench so he'll probably come into start alongside Scott who rotated out for a rest last weekend.

I'd expect Burns to rotate in for a start either this week Vs LI or against Wuss next week.

by Heaf Wed 6 Oct 2021 - 18:27

I think Tigers and Saints both got lucky last weekend ...

by formerly known as Sam Wed 6 Oct 2021 - 18:40

Heaf wrote:I think Tigers and Saints both got lucky last weekend ...

We got very lucky at the death but I think sir owed us one after bottling the yellow card earlier in the half. He gave Sarries a warning over collapsing mauls and then the next Tigers visit to the 22 he bottled the yellow and have another warning because some time had passed apparently. At that point Tigers were in the ascendancy and Sarries going down a man in the pack and losing someone crucial to their kick chase (Earl) could have potentially helped Tigers stop bodging chances and finish one off.

by No 7&1/2 Wed 6 Oct 2021 - 20:40

Even of you consider the ref missing something he doesn't owe you to make further mistakes.

by doctor_grey Wed 6 Oct 2021 - 22:42

king_carlos wrote:
WELL-PAST-IT wrote:
king_carlos wrote:Friday 8 October

Saints will definitely fancy an away win against Wasps with how each side have started their seasons.

I am not so sure, they have scraped wins in the last two games and last week I am not sure they deserved it. If they can start like they did last week and keep it up for 70 minutes then they should be okay, but Wasps can rip you apart in a ten minutes spell.

Saints are spoilt for choice in the backs and you could perm any number of centres and back three without weakening the side much, they also have a few players that may be fit for consideration like Big T and Francis. The back row needs to be solid to match the Wasps BR, Lawes, Ludlam and Augustus for me with Ribbans and Ratuniyarawa in the boiler room. Plenty of lineout presence with grunt as well.

It's a Wasps back row shorn of many stars though. Oghre started at openside last weekend. Jack Willis, Young and Carr all unavailable.

Launchbury in the row. Odogwu and Fekitoa in the centre. Minozzi at fullback.

Hougaard also yet to feature though Robson is fit.

It's a heavily depleted Wasps side.

Well, I will take an understrength Wasps side for this week. Saints need a game where they can stay switched on for the full 80 and not in fits and starts. Eventually other teams will get stronger and Saints will need to continue to improve as well.

One interesting difference this season is playing a proper and strong defensive centres in their respective positions. Dingwall at 12 and Proctor at 13 is a very good competitive midfield, both on attack and defensively. Will be interesting when Francis and Hutchinson return to duty.

by formerly known as Sam Thu 7 Oct 2021 - 7:55

No 7&1/2 wrote:Even of you consider the ref missing something he doesn't owe you to make further mistakes.

Well the common saying is these things even themselves out and in this case it did.

Kelly also in line to have his suspension reduced to two weeks as he'll attend some training to modify his behaviour.

by No 7&1/2 Thu 7 Oct 2021 - 8:26

Saracens deserve several years of bad decisions don't get me wrong!
I'm generally a defender of refs. Most things you can look at and think hmm maybe this maybe that. Much less patience for things like this. They just had their blinders on.

by Poorfour Thu 7 Oct 2021 - 12:17

Quins:
Harlequins Starting XV
1. Joe Marler (227)
2. Jack Walker (2)
3. Simon Kerrod (46)
4. Matt Symons (65)
5. Dino Lamb (50)
6. Tom Lawday (41)
7. Jack Kenningham (14)
8. Alex Dombrandt (78) - Captain
9. Danny Care (308)
10. Tommy Allan (2)
11. Cadan Murley (50)
12. Andre Esterhuizen (21)
13. Joe Marchant (115)
14. Louis Lynagh (15)
15. Tyrone Green (23)

Impact Players
16. Sam Riley (3)
17. Fin Baxter (3)
18. Will Collier (189)
19. Hugh Tizard (15)
20. James Chisholm (113)
21. Scott Steele (17)
22. Marcus Smith (110)
23. Luke Northmore (29)

Bristol:
15. Charles Piutau; 14. Niyi Adeolokun, 13. Piers O’Conor, 12. Sam Bedlow, 11. Henry Purdy; 10. Callum Sheedy, 9. Harry Randall; 1. Yann Thomas, 2. Jake Kerr, 3. Kyle Sinckler, 4. Joe Joyce, 5. Chris Vui, 6. Fitz Harding, 7. Jake Heenan, 8. Steven Luatua (c).

System players: 16. Harry Thacker, 17. Jake Woolmore, 18. Max Lahiff, 19. Ed Holmes, 20. Dan Thomas, 21. Andy Uren, 22. Ioan Lloyd, 23. Alapati Leiua.

Looks set to be a very exciting and open game, but Bristol minus Radradra and the other Piutau aren't quite the team they were last season. I'd expect Quins to edge it - especially with the potential for Smith to come on against a tired defence and add an extra dimension in attack. Tommy Allan is a better backup than we had any right to expect, but if Smith has maintained his form from the summer he's still a step up.

by TightHEAD Thu 7 Oct 2021 - 13:17

As a Bath fan I am really looking forward to this weekends fixtures.

Hooper Out.

by doctor_grey Fri 8 Oct 2021 - 3:30

Apropos of nothing, I just watched the Leicester-Saracens match. Forget the score, the jerseys worn by Saracens are amongst the dumbest looking things I have seen in quite a while. They have this vertical white stripe which starts near the bottom of the sternum and goes all the way down to their.....ahem, their situation. Very distracting. Looks like a bunch of guys with Mighty Sword of Pork envy.

by formerly known as Sam Fri 8 Oct 2021 - 12:10

TIGERS STARTING XV
15 Freddie Steward [38]
14 Harry Potter [18]
13 Matt Scott [27]
12 Juan Pablo Socino [1]
11 Nemani Nadolo [18]
10 George Ford [108]
9 Ben Youngs [267]
1 Ellis Genge (c) [92]
2 Nic Dolly [5]
3 Dan Cole [267]
4 Harry Wells [127]
5 Calum Green [63]
6 George Martin [20]
7 Tommy Reffell [50]
8 Hanro Liebenberg (vc) [39]

REPLACEMENTS
16 Julián Montoya [6] *
17 Nephi Leatigaga [44]
18 Joe Heyes [73]
19 Eli Snyman [2]
20 Marco van Staden **
21 Richard Wigglesworth [15] *
22 Freddie Burns [78]
23 Guy Porter [20]

* denotes first appearance of 21/22 season
** denotes Leicester Tigers debut

No the side I was expecting but that's a bit stronger, I thought we'd see some more rotation but no. Looks like we are really gunning for Irish. The bench forwards looks more than a bit impactful.

by formerly known as Sam Fri 8 Oct 2021 - 12:21

London Irish:
15 Tom Parton, 14 Ben Loader, 13 Curtis Rona, 12 Terrence Hepetema, 11 Ollie Hassell-Collins, 10 Paddy Jackson, 9 Nick Phipps, 1 Will Goodrick-Clarke, 2 Agustin Creevy, 3 Marcel van der Merwe, 4 Steve Mafi, 5 Adam Coleman, 6 Matt Rogerson (c), 7 Ben Donnell, 8 Albert Tuisue.
Replacements:
16 Matt Cornish, 17 Allan Dell, 18 Ollie Hoskins, 19 Rob Simmons, 20 George Nott, 21 Sean O’Brien, 22 Hugh O’Sullivan, 23 Benhard van Rensburg.

I have a nasty feeling those LI second row options are going to spoil some of the Tigers fun at lineout and rolling maul time.

by Geordie Fri 8 Oct 2021 - 19:49

Some good match ups In this game...

by formerly known as Sam Fri 8 Oct 2021 - 19:55

Yeah Quins Vs Bristol is bubbling along nicely. That Randall kick through following the break on the outside was horrific, proper shank. He was lucky that the final Quins pass was forward.

by No 7&1/2 Fri 8 Oct 2021 - 20:01

Randall is just electric.

by formerly known as Sam Fri 8 Oct 2021 - 20:05

No 7&1/2 wrote:Randall is just electric.

Certainly made up for the shanked kick. Fantastic break to set the try up.

by formerly known as Sam Fri 8 Oct 2021 - 20:07

Blimey Bristol turning it on. Assisted by Danny Care there though.

by Geordie Fri 8 Oct 2021 - 20:08

Sinklers winning his personal battle with Marlet so far....

by formerly known as Sam Fri 8 Oct 2021 - 20:14

The angles being run by the Bristol forwards are excellent. Coming from outside and then straightening between tacklers. So much harder to defend against.

Allan unlucky to pick up an injury but it brings wonder boy into the game early which can only be good for us neutrals.

by Heaf Fri 8 Oct 2021 - 20:15

formerly known as Sam wrote:TIGERS STARTING XV
15 Freddie Steward [38]
14 Harry Potter [18]
13 Matt Scott [27]
12 Juan Pablo Socino [1]
11 Nemani Nadolo [18]
10 George Ford [108]
9 Ben Youngs [267]
1 Ellis Genge (c) [92]
2 Nic Dolly [5]
3 Dan Cole [267]
4 Harry Wells [127]
5 Calum Green [63]
6 George Martin [20]
7 Tommy Reffell [50]
8 Hanro Liebenberg (vc) [39]

REPLACEMENTS
16 Julián Montoya [6] *
17 Nephi Leatigaga [44]
18 Joe Heyes [73]
19 Eli Snyman [2]
20 Marco van Staden **
21 Richard Wigglesworth [15] *
22 Freddie Burns [78]
23 Guy Porter [20]

* denotes first appearance of 21/22 season
** denotes Leicester Tigers debut

No the side I was expecting but that's a bit stronger, I thought we'd see some more rotation but no. Looks like we are really gunning for Irish. The bench forwards looks more than a bit impactful.

With the way Irish are managing to throw away opportunities so far I think Borthwick may have missed a chance to rotate more and still get the win Crying or Very sad

by Cumbrian Fri 8 Oct 2021 - 20:15

Bristol are such a glass cannon, when they are on their game they are unplayable, but there is a fragility there. If Quins can build their way into the game in this half, I could still see them winning even from this position.

by No 7&1/2 Fri 8 Oct 2021 - 20:16

These 2 teams like creating a bit of drama don't they.

by formerly known as Sam Fri 8 Oct 2021 - 20:19

And Quins back in it. Lovely first phase move, not sure what the Bristol defender is doing at the end there. By rushing out and in he takes out the defenders inside him so as soon as Dombrandt gets the ball away before the hit he's screwed.

by Geordie Fri 8 Oct 2021 - 20:22

Dombrandt pretty much confirming his start in the Ais so far...playIng very well...

Loved the Deano comparisons earlier...though yes hes got more pace than the great bear...lol

by Geordie Fri 8 Oct 2021 - 20:26

Not another quality young back rower coming through (Harding)
Can one or two of them not move to 12? Lol

Or is that Max Ojomohs spot soon?

by Cumbrian Fri 8 Oct 2021 - 20:29

GeordieFalcon wrote:Not another quality young back rower coming through (Harding)
Can one or two of them not move to 12? Lol

Or is that Max Ojomohs spot soon?

It's mental isn't it? If they'd have been coming through at any other point in the last ten- fifteen year they could have had a decent international career. As it is, they will probably get one or two caps at best.

by doctor_grey Fri 8 Oct 2021 - 20:50

Just got home from work. This is a heck of a score-line. Quins bad? Bristol good?

by No 7&1/2 Fri 8 Oct 2021 - 20:53

Can we just watch a couple of games back to back in the AIs with Randall and Smith.

by Geordie Fri 8 Oct 2021 - 20:55

Dombrandt having a cracker

by TightHEAD Fri 8 Oct 2021 - 20:56

Clear forward pass missed again.

by No 7&1/2 Fri 8 Oct 2021 - 20:59

Is Lynagh injured? Bizarre to bring him off as he's been excellent.

No tactical according to comes.

by Geordie Fri 8 Oct 2021 - 21:02

Breath taking rugby

by No 7&1/2 Fri 8 Oct 2021 - 21:02

Jones is there watching.....surely he has to be thinking he has the players here to radically alter England. And entertain. And be successful.

by Geordie Fri 8 Oct 2021 - 21:03

Can England adapt to get the best from Dombrandt....

by lostinwales Fri 8 Oct 2021 - 21:04

GeordieFalcon wrote:Dombrandt pretty much confirming his start in the Ais so far...playIng very well...

Loved the Deano comparisons earlier...though yes hes got more pace than the great bear...lol

I think my fridge has more pace than Deano had. Given that the ball almost invariably ended up where he was I think its better to say he had gravity

by Cumbrian Fri 8 Oct 2021 - 21:05

Dombrandt has to be in the England squad in the autumn, surely?

by Geordie Fri 8 Oct 2021 - 21:07

lostinwales wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:Dombrandt pretty much confirming his start in the Ais so far...playIng very well...

Loved the Deano comparisons earlier...though yes hes got more pace than the great bear...lol

I think my fridge has more pace than Deano had. Given that the ball almost invariably ended up where he was I think its better to say he had gravity

It's funny to think when you see him waddling round the pitch these days that he hasnt lost any pace from his playing days Laugh

by Geordie Fri 8 Oct 2021 - 21:07

Cumbrian wrote:Dombrandt has to be in the England squad in the autumn, surely?

Starting...surely?

by No 7&1/2 Fri 8 Oct 2021 - 21:08

Lol. Collier.

by doctor_grey Fri 8 Oct 2021 - 21:09

What a game!!!

by Cumbrian Fri 8 Oct 2021 - 21:09

Does any team fall apart quite as spectacularly as Bristol?

by Geordie Fri 8 Oct 2021 - 21:10

He'll be sacked from the front row union for that!!

by formerly known as Sam Fri 8 Oct 2021 - 21:12

GeordieFalcon wrote:
lostinwales wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:Dombrandt pretty much confirming his start in the Ais so far...playIng very well...

Loved the Deano comparisons earlier...though yes hes got more pace than the great bear...lol

I think my fridge has more pace than Deano had. Given that the ball almost invariably ended up where he was I think its better to say he had gravity

It's funny to think when you see him waddling round the pitch these days that he hasnt lost any pace from his playing days

To be fair in his day there was more mud baths and fighting than today. Dombrandt wouldn't last five minutes in the 90s Vs Deano, then again prime Deano from the 90s without the benefit of modern S&C wouldn't last five mins in modern rugby so swings and roundabouts.

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