European games round 1

First topic message reminder :

Champions cup
Friday 10th 20:00
Northampton Saints v Racing 92

Saturday 11th
Leinster v Bath 15:15
ASM Clermont Auvergne v Ulster 17:30
Exeter Chiefs v Montpellier 20:00
Cardiff Rugby v Toulouse 13:00
Bordeaux Bègles v Leicester Tigers 15:15
Bristol v Scarlets cancelled - Bristol get 28-0 win

Sunday 12th
Ospreys v Sale 13:00
La Rochelle v Glasgow Warriors 15:15
Connacht v Stade Francais 13:00
Wasps v Munster 15:15
Castres v Harlequins 17:30

Challenge cup
Friday 10th 20:00
Newcastle Falcons v Worcester Warriors
Lyon v Gloucester

Saturday 11th
Zebre v Biarritz Olympique 13:00
Perpignan v Dragons 17:30
Saracens v Edinburgh 15:15
Pau v London Irish 20:00

George Martin was excellent. Is he The future England 6...or will he move to lock?

At the moment no signs he'll move to lock though.....especially with the likes of Wells, Chessum etc all playing well...

Wow. I missed the first half but turned on at 50 minutes. A win away in France against the Top 14 league leaders!

Ford was largely below his best but nailed the kicks that counted. UJ Seuteni is such a fun player but has played 13 more than 10 for Bordeaux and it showed when he replaced Trinh-Duc. Bordeaux missed Jalibert a lot.

I felt that Tigers got a bit fortunate not to have a warning and sin binning for maul infringements. There was one from Chessum in particular where he flew in from the side, folded under and collapsed with Bordeaux going forward 10m out. Seemed pretty cynical and killing a very good attacking platform.

In the 30 minutes I saw Reffell and Martin were very good, Van Staden had a big impact. Chessum keeps getting better too. Potter in the back three was very active as usual. Matt Scott strong as ever for Tigers.

Both sides rotated for their first Euro game suggesting a focus on the league for the Premiership and Top 14 leaders. Bordeaux missing the rested Guido Petti, Matthieu Jalibert, Mahamadou Diaby and Romain Buros. Then Jandre Marais annd Cyril Cyreaux injured at lock. They also benched a starter in Cordero. Tigers resting Montoya, Youngs, Kelly, Moroni, Nadolo and Steward. Liebenberg injured. Benched Cole, Wells and van Staden.

KC
I mentioned earlier , Chessum is developing nicely for you. Hes looking like a player who's just not nice to play against. About 6'7 aggressive, mobile and just gets in people's faces....probably will put a few pounds on still aswell.

Tigers future (and present) is looking very good...

It is. Have to say van Poortvliet just looks so good as well. Such a great pass on him. Definite step down when Wigglesworth came on.

Disgusting bottle job by Christophe Ridley, to only yellow the Perp player.

Dragons imploding. Like we do!

Yeah, just disband us and give the money to the other regions. Utter, utter shoite.

Heaf wrote:Well done Tigers - but i can't help feeling it could have been more comfortable with less kicking the ball away when attacking.  

Also what happened to allow the BB No.3 back on?

The loosehead went off injured.

The kicking was a clear tactic to force the Bordeaux to run and stop them getting into a position where the big pack could build pressure. Tigers knew they had a lot of mobile physicality but that Bordeaux pack was pretty huge. In those conditions running it was going to be tricky as the number of knock ons demonstrated.

I would have liked to see us try and isolate the Bordeaux winger for a one on one with Saumaki. He's a big and quick unit on the wing and there was a couple of kicks there that could of instead gone to hand inside or near to the Bordeaux 22 that could have given him the chance.

A lot of young lads really stood up and did really well. Chessum was great in the lineout and round the park, he's such an awkward person to play against. Martin tackled and smashed things like he does and Reffell was generally a menace. Nice from JVP, played the tactics very well as well. 

Wasn't pretty but job done and in Borthwick we trust.

GeordieFalcon wrote:KC
I mentioned earlier , Chessum is developing nicely for you. Hes looking like a player who's just not nice to play against.  About 6'7 aggressive,  mobile and just gets in people's faces....probably will put a few pounds on still aswell.

Tigers future (and present) is looking very good...

Only Green was older than 26 in the starting pack and the average age was just under 24.

Tigers first win in France since 2013.

The Oracle wrote:Yeah, just disband us and give the money to the other regions. Utter, utter shoite.

Actually coming round to this too.

Gutless second half again. When you see a team of semi pros taking on the European champions earlier and having a good dig, then see that half, it makes you question a lot.

Watched the second half of Exeter Montpellier.  Exeter did what they do:  Patiently grinding down the opposition to secure a nice win.  

However, what has my attention here is how poor the referee and the officiating in general was.  Not necessarily with missed calls but ceding control over the match to the TMO.  I forget who it was, but he seemed indecisive and appeared to be instructed at times by the TMO.  The TMO kept chiming in with another play to review.  Sometime he had it right and sometimes perhaps embracing his new found authority (or maybe lack of confidence in the referee).  Not sure if these people have worked together previously or not, but this was a poor display by the referee and TMO and a poor look in general.  Each replay seemed to take a fortnight to decide whether a pass was knocked on or not.

Sales pack looking good.

Dreadful from Ospreys. They've forgotten you can kick for the posts. 10 penalties against Sale and 3 points and a yellow to show for it.

And Webb should have done better with that.

Sale do seem to tail off in the 2nd half

lostinwales wrote:Sale do seem to tail off in the 2nd half

Big let off for Ospreys though, Collins finger tip grazing the ball counting enough before Quirke grounding the ball.

Controversy? I switched to see the farcial f1 end.

Fantastic start to the wasps Munster game. Great attack. Epic defence.

Barbeary loves a carry.

Poite letting quite a lot go on the floor.

Hard one that. Penalty. Yellow probably? My French is beyond poor.

Oh. Red.

Barbeary is bloody good.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Hard one that. Penalty. Yellow probably? My French is beyond poor.

You could hear "carte rouge" quite early, so the question was whether there was mitigation. While it looked like the Munster man was tackled into Shields, which might have been a consideration, the officials only used that view to focus on where he made contact.

Can't let that stand surely. Wasps player pushed off the ball.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Controversy? I switched to see the farcial f1 end.

Not contraversial as such - Sale denied a try bonus point by a very fine margin - honestly difficult to tell and probably could have gone either way ...

Oh. Only accidentally pushed the wasps player off his feet allowing the try. Lol.

Wasps have an unhappy history with French refs when playing Irish teams ...

Why have Wasps' attendances fallen so drastically? Seems to be more Munster fans there than Wasps.

Not sure what their numbers have been like since they moved to Coventry ...

What a first half in the Wasps v Munster game. Covid depleted squads, Red card, yellow card, missed forward passes, Poite pedantics, kicks off posts, and some throwabout rugby too.

Can’t see Munster lasting the second half with their callow bench.

Hmmm - that inside pass looked forwards ...

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Why have Wasps' attendances fallen so drastically? Seems to be more Munster fans there than Wasps.

On one podcast, Mark Evans said Wasps gave away a lot of tickets, or at least kept prices low, when they first moved to Coventry. Now, with COVID having hit everyone's bottom line, they are charging more, and spectators don't seem willing to pay the price. A quick look at the website shows Premiership tickets at the ground are £21-£60 for adults.

How did Huw Jones go for Quins - surprised and quite happy to see him get a start in a big game.

EST wrote:How did Huw Jones go for Quins - surprised and quite happy to see him get a start in a big game.

Marchant and Northmore are both injured. He started last weekend Vs Tigers as well though it's probably best not to go back and look at that one as he butchered what should have been a walk in try (3vs2 with half the width to run it in 10m out) and ended up getting held up after going himself. Didn't see how he went last night but a win away in France is nothing to be sniffed at so must have been a very good Quins effort overall.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

EST wrote:How did Huw Jones go for Quins - surprised and quite happy to see him get a start in a big game.

Marchant and Northmore are both injured. He started last weekend Vs Tigers as well though it's probably best not to go back and look at that one as he butchered what should have been a walk in try (3vs2 with half the width to run it in 10m out) and ended up getting held up after going himself. Didn't see how he went last night but a win away in France is nothing to be sniffed at so must have been a very good Quins effort overall.

Last time Castres lost at home in Europe was apparently the start of 2015 (to Quins ironically)

formerly known as Sam wrote:

EST wrote:How did Huw Jones go for Quins - surprised and quite happy to see him get a start in a big game.

Marchant and Northmore are both injured. He started last weekend Vs Tigers as well though it's probably best not to go back and look at that one as he butchered what should have been a walk in try (3vs2 with half the width to run it in 10m out) and ended up getting held up after going himself. Didn't see how he went last night but a win away in France is nothing to be sniffed at so must have been a very good Quins effort overall.

I did hear about the balls up against the Tigers, not the best start.

I still think he could be a real steal for Quins if he gets a run of games - his best rugby has always been outside Finn putting him through gaps and in Marcus Smith he has a very similar operator.

Good weekend for the Welsh teams then!

Just goes to show what I know. Can't be to hard on the Ospreys given the mid week news they had.

What is clear is the Regions need a overhaul. We just have to many players on the books who simply are not up to the standard required at Pro Level.

Scarlets need a complete overhaul and with the playing budget they have they should be a top 5 side. Blues balance is all over the shop - Young clearly wants to field 15 opensides next year and has pumped way to much resource into that area. The backrow is not really where they have problems. Ospreys have the same issue as the Scarlets but they are bringing through a lot of younger players so the future for them will look brighter as in a couple of seasons that strategy should pay off.

Dragons are still under resourced. I still maintain were only about 5-6 signings away from being competitive but they would need to be quality signings so that would require about 2 million funding a year. The frustrating thing is Scarlets are spending double and I actually think were in a better spot than them at the moment which goes to show how wasteful the regions are being with the funding currently.

EST wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

EST wrote:How did Huw Jones go for Quins - surprised and quite happy to see him get a start in a big game.

Marchant and Northmore are both injured. He started last weekend Vs Tigers as well though it's probably best not to go back and look at that one as he butchered what should have been a walk in try (3vs2 with half the width to run it in 10m out) and ended up getting held up after going himself. Didn't see how he went last night but a win away in France is nothing to be sniffed at so must have been a very good Quins effort overall.

I did hear about the balls up against the Tigers, not the best start.

I still think he could be a real steal for Quins if he gets a run of games - his best rugby has always been outside Finn putting him through gaps and in Marcus Smith he has a very similar operator.

Yeah good signing and quality operator. Unsure of how serious the injuries to the other centres are but he'll get chance to put down a bit of a marker over the last two games. Every game more he plays he should get better as he gets used to the way those around him play.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

EST wrote:How did Huw Jones go for Quins - surprised and quite happy to see him get a start in a big game.

Marchant and Northmore are both injured. He started last weekend Vs Tigers as well though it's probably best not to go back and look at that one as he butchered what should have been a walk in try (3vs2 with half the width to run it in 10m out) and ended up getting held up after going himself. Didn't see how he went last night but a win away in France is nothing to be sniffed at so must have been a very good Quins effort overall.

Jones was better against Castres - made some pretty good breaks and at least looked for the pass (though was brought down a couple of times without making passes that were arguably on). I think he'll be a good signing given time to get on the same wavelength as the team.

Overall, the game as pretty scrappy but an away win in France is not something to be dismissed lightly. Quins conceded both tries by switching off at crucial moments, and our lineout was patchy at best, but the scrum was very much on top and the margin of victory could have been pretty big if some of our handling and support lines had been better. Quins aren't playing anywhere near their best but have been in with a chance at the death of all their matches this season - if it starts to click, they could be dangerous yet.

Given Cardiff's woes, I'm expecting a hard day for them at the Stoop on Saturday.

Poorfour wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

EST wrote:How did Huw Jones go for Quins - surprised and quite happy to see him get a start in a big game.

Marchant and Northmore are both injured. He started last weekend Vs Tigers as well though it's probably best not to go back and look at that one as he butchered what should have been a walk in try (3vs2 with half the width to run it in 10m out) and ended up getting held up after going himself. Didn't see how he went last night but a win away in France is nothing to be sniffed at so must have been a very good Quins effort overall.

Jones was better against Castres - made some pretty good breaks and at least looked for the pass (though was brought down a couple of times without making passes that were arguably on). I think he'll be a good signing given time to get on the same wavelength as the team.

Overall, the game as pretty scrappy but an away win in France is not something to be dismissed lightly. Quins conceded both tries by switching off at crucial moments, and our lineout was patchy at best, but the scrum was very much on top and the margin of victory could have been pretty big if some of our handling and support lines had been better. Quins aren't playing anywhere near their best but have been in with a chance at the death of all their matches this season - if it starts to click, they could be dangerous yet.

Given Cardiff's woes, I'm expecting a hard day for them at the Stoop on Saturday.

Yea players have said before that it takes at least one season to settle into a new side, and with the way Quins play it could probably take guys in the backs even longer to learn the instinctive offloading game we try. He looked not up to speed last week, and played like he never expected anyone around him. This week though he had more confidence and you could see him fixing his lines better to hit gaps and make yards, all in all a good performance.

yappysnap wrote:

Poorfour wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

EST wrote:How did Huw Jones go for Quins - surprised and quite happy to see him get a start in a big game.

Marchant and Northmore are both injured. He started last weekend Vs Tigers as well though it's probably best not to go back and look at that one as he butchered what should have been a walk in try (3vs2 with half the width to run it in 10m out) and ended up getting held up after going himself. Didn't see how he went last night but a win away in France is nothing to be sniffed at so must have been a very good Quins effort overall.

Jones was better against Castres - made some pretty good breaks and at least looked for the pass (though was brought down a couple of times without making passes that were arguably on). I think he'll be a good signing given time to get on the same wavelength as the team.

Overall, the game as pretty scrappy but an away win in France is not something to be dismissed lightly. Quins conceded both tries by switching off at crucial moments, and our lineout was patchy at best, but the scrum was very much on top and the margin of victory could have been pretty big if some of our handling and support lines had been better. Quins aren't playing anywhere near their best but have been in with a chance at the death of all their matches this season - if it starts to click, they could be dangerous yet.

Given Cardiff's woes, I'm expecting a hard day for them at the Stoop on Saturday.

Yea players have said before that it takes at least one season to settle into a new side, and with the way Quins play it could probably take guys in the backs even longer to learn the instinctive offloading game we try. He looked not up to speed last week, and played like he never expected anyone around him. This week though he had more confidence and you could see him fixing his lines better to hit gaps and make yards, all in all a good performance.

Thanks for the update folks. It never really quite clicked for Jones at Glasgow and he has been bi-passed by Harris at international level, but to his credit I can't remember him ever moaning and by all accounts he was a committed member of the Warriors squad, i'm hopeful he can have a new lease of life at Quins - at his best he is some player.

The Oracle wrote:Good weekend for the Welsh teams then!

Great contrast to the Irish and Scottish teams. The WRU and Phil probably think everything is fine and normal though.

For the URC teams game of the weekend was Edinburgh beating Sarries.  Not the team they were but when was the last time a URC beat them at home.  Second would be Ulster beating Clermont.

For the Prem team game of the weekend was Tigers beating Boardeux (they were without their star 10).  Going up against a strong team and being able to win playing their style was important.  Tigers fans and staff seems the least likely to say they are back but I think this shows they are back to being the team as good as 13/14 at least in terms of results. Second is probably Quinns who were able to see out a game away from home.  Was debating giving it to Irish or Exeter but felt Their opposition weren't as focused on the game

For the T14 game of the week was Racing beating Saints away from home.which is their hardest game most likely.  Second is a hard one, most did what was expect or did poor.  Toulouse got a good result but felt they didnt play well considering the opposition. It's probably them or La Rochelle.

Was there much hoopla about VDF's eyes?

https://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2021/1216/1267172-baths-muir-given-4-week-ban-for-van-der-flier-incident/
The following has images and link to short video;
https://rugbyonslaught.com/the-controversial-incident-that-led-to-a-four-week-ban-for-bath-man/


Dangerous entry to a maul, that's always an old chestnut that players usually just get away with.

Poor round for citings. I’ve seen two head contacts not even looked at. O’Mahony doing a usual charge into a ruck (not learnt from his Six Nations red) and the shot on Elliot Dee.

No citings. Headshots are fair game now. In the case of O’Mahony, you even had an Irish journo type (Murray Kinsella) praising him.
So backwards.

Citings are a mess. So much is missed unless it's picked up by the comms team and a big social media presence.

O'Mahoney was reckless but he did nothing illegal.
He charged in took Gopperth out on the body in a ruck.

The thing that was reckless was he was not in control of the point of contact - he got lucky.