Taylor v Catterall The Gloves are off - Just like Froch v Groves 1

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Catterall seems to be winding Taylor up just by suggesting he can win...Taylor seems to resent being put in the same breath as him..

Reminds me of Froch v Groves...Where Froch with delusions of grandeur resented the quiet confidence of his inexperienced challenger.....Even at the face off at the final presser Taylor is making digs out of the side of his mouth while both are looking straight forward at the crowd like Froch did v Groves.

Taylor seems to be very narcissistic like Froch and in front of his own fans for the first time in two years will desperately want to impress..and there lies opportunity...

Thought Catterall had no chance but seeing Taylor today and in the gloves are off...I think he has a chance...

Taylor is obviously resentful at sharing a ring and peed off by Catterall 's laid back demeanor..

Harris v Maussa....Norris v Brown 1...Both fights where Champions took liberties and looked to impress..

Taylor v Catterall...Certainly a carbon copy of Froch v Groves 1..Let's hope the fight turns out the same..

Expect Taylor to win but...More interesting perhaps than I first thought..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I must admit like Soul...I figured it was coming..

So sorry for Catterall...Only good thing is Taylor will blame the weight and move up...So he should get a shot at a Vacant belt..

What a good performance.

… yes, he’ll probably pull the don curry excuse

Only teasing trussy.

Another god awful decision to add to boxing’s hall of shame. It’s just bollox isn’t it… I’ve lost the love, but good on you guys for soldiering on.

Ian John Lewis has been churning these cards out for decades so it never really surprises. He will be back again next time around as if nothing happened.

If there were any basic standards of competency he would have been stood down about 15 years ago.

Taylor sounded like he was trying to convince himself he won the fight. If I say it enough times it must be true!

Absolutely disgusting decision, it was not even a close fight. British boxing needs to get a grip of itself because its becoming a laughing stock. How many times will this happen, its embarrassing and not fair on fighters who put in months of hard work for some fat toad to rob them of their just rewards.

Jamie Moore was brilliant after...Passionate...Didn't swear....Pretty much spoke for all of us fans..

IJL should explain his 8 rounds..Because a draw was a stretch..I mean the referee appointed gave Campbell Hatton a gift a few months ago..

It stinks and it needs disinfectant.

Goodnight chaps. ..

Bloody hell, everyone is making an appearance tonight, shows how bad that decision was.

I've met IJL on a few occasions and he does know what he's talking about so it's not incompetence which means the alternative is even worse. He regularly does meet and greets round these parts which are surprisingly popular.

British officiating has always had a sort of "jobs for the boys" feel about it. Same faces always doing the round, incompetence never challenged, poor performances never having any impact on getting another gig. Even the commentary team generally let them off the hook as individuals. Bad cards are referred to rather than the individual judge who turned it in.

Popped in for what very well might be the last time, I bitterly regret to say.

Yes, IJL has always been the most awful judge I've ever seen. I still remember that drawn scorecard that he handed out when Gavin McDonnell was, in the real world, losing ten out of 12 in a super-bantam title fight against Rey Vargas. Despite his career as a pro boxer, John-Lewis has no understanding of what he is seeing in front of him and he never will. Years of this and no-one does anything.

And so it is with boxing and probably always has been. But back in the day, we didn't have 17 different weights and four or more belts in each of them - more if you add the super, emeritus, whatever else 'champions'. You might get stinkeroo decisions from time to time back in the day but there was so much to compensate. It was always the sport that got me in the pit of the stomach and in the heart, right from the moment when, almost five I watched the  highlights of the first Frazier-Ali fight.

It lit a fire that eventually took me to loads of different countries, allowed me to meet many good people (and Aaron Snowell) and experience some wonderful thrills, just because I loved this infuriating, captivating sport.

Well, I'm old and done now, I think. The flame has guttered and flickered these past few years but I reckon this fight, which, for the first time in ages, I took time out to watch, is, II think, the one that has probably snuffed out the candle. Load of bollox, as Milky says with characteristic pithiness.

So farewell a part of my life that has lasted 50 years. And an absolutely final but really rather fond farewell to this board. Some of you I know and it has generally been a privilege. We shan't meet again in a boxing-related context, I fear, but who can ever tell where else our paths may cross?

Take care, all of you....

You always did have a way with words, captain. But I sincerely hope you rediscover your love of the sport one day.

Back to the actual fight itself. Normally I don't pay too much attention to the 'dead at the weight' talk. Taylor did look a wee bit tight and drawn at the weigh in, possibly more than he has in previous fights. But that's hardly an unusual sight, and how often do we hear speculations that a fighter is having to move heaven and earth to make weight and that it's likely to affect them come fight night, only for them to look like a refreshed and handily replenished beast 36 hours later?

I do wonder if there's something in it here though, simply because Taylor looked so physically weak in there compared to previous fights. Timing being off is one thing. It happens, and against a defensively responsible fellow southpaw the chances of that might well increase. But Taylor looked strangely subdued in a lot of the clinches, accepting them rather than using his strength to make room for short shots in close, working the high-low etc.

Catterall fought a very good fight, but it wasn't exactly ground breaking stuff and you wouldn't have anticipated him being able to contain Taylor in those kind of exchanges. But that brute strength, good engine and ability to shorten the shots just wasn't there for Taylor at all, and he barely made an impression in that regard. Just looked flat and laboured all the way.

After what he's done he's entitled to a bad off night, of course. There'll be a clamour for a rematch but if he had it in his mind that this might be his last fight at 140 beforehand, I think this torrid experience might just have made that decision final for him.

He's a top fighter, what happened here doesn't change that. He just should never have left that ring with those belts around his waist.

Jeez, even me as a passionate Scot, see that as a travesty of justice. No way did Taylor come even close to winning that fight. He was outboxed, knocked down and had a point deducted. What an embarrassing night for boxing.

That actually sets up Catterall vs Prograis rather nicely

Josh officially the best light welter in the world, but Jack against Regis for unofficial best 140 pounder in world

Josh had two robberies now, come on

Very fine boxer Catterall, what a fight it would be against Regis

The Prograis fight was no robbery, don't conflate close and contentious with wrong.

Regis beats Josh in America so it’s who you think wins on neutral soil. I’ve got Regis

Well Taylor won't be any kind of Light-Welter for much longer it seems, Herman. Confirmed what most of us suspected in his post-fight press obligations; that his next fight will be at Welterweight. Looks like all those belts will become vacant.

As I mentioned the other day, I get the impression this is what Prograis has been waiting for. Said he sees himself having a rematch with Taylor eventually, but that he sees it at 147. Still has ambitions at 140 that he wants to fulfill beforehand and has said that becoming world champion again there is his primary focus before moving up for Taylor II.

I think that, on the back of last night's controversy, there's a good chance that the WBO will keep Catterall as their number one, so with a bit of luck he'll get another shot ASAP.

If there's a vacant belt to be won that might just be enough to make Davis accept Prograis' invitation for a fight. Also we know that Teofimo was calling out Taylor and saying he's got 140 in his sights. Who knows, maybe even Lomachenko might fancy a quick dip to bag another belt before returning to Lightweight? Although Lomachenko has never quote looked as good at Lightweight as he did at Feather / Super-Feather, I suspect he could win a world title at Light-Welter if he was matched with the 'right' opponent.

Hard to know which way the division will go. When a quality (even after last night!) and undisputed champion or clear number one leaves a division it sometimes sends the weight class into a real lull from which it takes years to recover. On the other hand, sometimes it creates a really exciting round robin of fights with some genuinely exciting 50:50 matchups.

Mixed bag when a dominant champion is dethroned or moves on isn't it Chris.

Jones at 175lbs- free for all
Hopkins at 160lbs- dull before and after
Calzaghe at 168lbs- sparked into life
Crawford at 140lbs- quite exciting
Usyk at 200lbs- returned to being dull and pointless
Wlad at heavy- some renewed excitement

I think 140 with some of the fighters coming up could provide some of the best fights in boxing in the next couple of years maybe the odd classic here and there. Lopez will be a lot stronger at 140 and is still a beast. And actually Mikey Garcia is a totally different fighter at 140 if he can get his fat ass out of the taco house

Prograis/Catterall/Lopez/Mikey that’s a nice collection of fighters right there with differing sytyles. A fight between any of those would be highly anticipated, I feel. Shame Mikey’s lost so much momentum with his move to 47. He could conceivably get his mojo back with a couple of good wins in rapid succession. He’s leaner and meaner at 40. And let’s not forget Haney and Garcia who both look promising. Maybe they’ll be moving up too soon enough

Soul Requiem wrote:Mixed bag when a dominant champion is dethroned or moves on isn't it Chris.

Jones at 175lbs- free for all
Hopkins at 160lbs- dull before and after
Calzaghe at 168lbs- sparked into life
Crawford at 140lbs- quite exciting
Usyk at 200lbs- returned to being dull and pointless
Wlad at heavy- some renewed excitement

Was Taylor dominant though if that’s what people are suggesting?

I feel Lopez could beat him and Prograis beat him in a rematch on neutral soil. And Catterall already beaten him in my eyes

Maybe Taylor is not as good as some people believed and maybe Catterall has been underestimated. Some have suggested it was more associated with styles and tactics that enabled Catterall to get the better of Taylor in the ring, that maybe Taylor had been worked out and potential weaknesses exposed. Taylor's trainer on being asked whether Taylor deserved the win talked about some of Floyd Mayweathers disputed wins and then later reminded the press that this was only Taylor's 19th professional fight and that despite his phenomenal accomplishments he has still much to learn.

Don't forget when Mike Spinks (not putting Taylor anywhere near his class, of course) vacated at Light-Heavy as well, Soul. More than a decade before there was even another unification fight in the division afterwards. And most of that in the four belt era!

Bertie, you mentioned Taylor's trainer there. Before the Ramirez fight I voiced my concerns over Davison as a trainer and thought that Taylor should aim for a reconciliation with Shane McGuigan if business circumstances allow for it. Last night only furthered my belief that Davison is style over substance and that Taylor may well need to look elsewhere.

His advice between rounds was pretty much non-existent and instead of geeing the fans up and playing to the gallery, as he did repeatedly, he should instead have been trying to calm and focus Taylor rather than get him even more riled. Taylor's a bit hot-headed at the best of times and he said beforehand the emotion of the big homecoming was really driving him for this fight. What he needed was a cool head and some proper analysis and instruction from his corner, exactly the kind that McGuigan gave him (and that Taylor implemented very well) after a difficult start against Baranchyk.

Catterall was much better than I anticipated. I guess he just needed that big opportunity to really shine and he's left a lot of us with egg on our face. But Taylor is also much better than he showed last night.

Hill against Maske I'm guessing Chris?

Last night beyond that decision has resulted in a lot of questions that we simply cannot know the answers to.

How good is Catterall? That could be the best he's ever going to be. Groves went on to become a world champion but he never came close to replicating those first six rounds against Froch. Catterall could be the same or this propels him.

Did the weight affect Taylor? To me he looked like the smaller man in their yesterday which he's rarely been, not being able to dominate inside. Hattonesque possibly. Spence and Crawford are fully fledged Welterweights, he's unlikely to outmuscle either of them.

Herman questioning Taylor's dominance at the weight is a fair one. He deservedly won all the belts but his four big title fights have been a real grind, he's not separated himself from the pack.

Definitely a case of one eye on the next job by Taylor if you ask me - the exact thing I thought he wouldn't do! Catterall had a decent game plan and was way better than anyone (especially Taylor) expected. Catterall should have those belts now.

I too, like the Captain, am fed up of the sort of decisions where the judges seem to have been watching a completely different fight. I hate the ridiculous numbers of belts per division (plus the farcical WBA Super/Regular/First in the Queue at Starbucks titles), the inclusion of sudden new weight classes (WTF is a "bridger" anyhow?). I hate the fact that drugs cheats when they're caught are given pretty much a free pass as if punching people in the face with added help is ok. But most of all I hate the promoters who mostly won't let their golden geese have a decent challenge: Crawford/Spence being a prime example here, and the PPV cards for pretty much any fight above an area title.

I'm not quitting just yet, but a couple more like this and I probably won't be far behind Cap.

Soul Requiem wrote:Herman questioning Taylor's dominance at the weight is a fair one. He deservedly won all the belts but his four big title fights have been a real grind, he's not separated himself from the pack.

The margin of his victories have generally been narrow (although I thought he beat Ramirez a bit clearer than the judges had it), so not dominant in that sense of the word, true. But he was one of the relatively few men in the sport who could claim to be the absolute Mack Daddy of his division, and he did clear it out in the proper sense. A real bonafide world champion by even the highest standards, rather than a mere titlist or consensus one. Also worth noting he's accounted for a few unbeaten records along the way in that run.

As divisions go, Light-Welter hasn't been too bad these past few years. Not vintage, sure, and there's been no monster at the weight like a Pryor or Chavez. But far from a dead division either. Taylor's run to undisputed at the weight was done against a better crop overall than Crawford's, for instance.

Taylor's never looked invincible or a clear class above his rivals, but in a way that made his run to undisputed all the more special - particularly when you consider how few fights be required to do it. He's been matched tough and has been far from risk-averse.

How do people see him getting on at 147? Does he go straight in at the deep end and target a possible world title fight? What opponents are feasible or advisable?

If Taylor moves up to 147, he immediately becomes mandatory for Crawford.
PBC won’t entertain Taylor as they don’t work with Top Rank.

Taylor turned professional quite late and has achieved a lot in 19 professional fights.  His (new) trainer suggests he has much to learn but I note Chris' comment suggesting that the corner instructions and interactions were poor during the fight and that it was better under the his former trainer.

They have released the cards...

IJL had Taylor 3 -1 up after 4 rounds ???

Josh Taylor "lost" to Cattarall because he couldn't make weight easily apparently.....Has decided to stay at 140.....

No rematch though.....

So basically Taylor didn’t fancy the rematch with Catterall? Otherwise he would’ve dropped the WBC title like he did with the WBA version.
I guess he’ll wait it out and see if Crawford vacates at 147 after he beats Spence.