Political round up.............

First topic message reminder :

ps the Best leaders surround themselves with the best people.   Not so good leaders surround themselves with those that are not going to challenge them.  So maybe the reason why it appears that there is a poor selection of candidates is partly due to Boris Johnson.  Another reason may be that the leadership qualities and the general competence levels of elected mps has declined.

Samo wrote:Outgoing “PM” and perpetual Frak Johnson popped his head out from under the parapet to deliver some excellent assistance to people struggling with their energy bills;

“If you have an old kettle, it may cost £20 to replace it. But spending that £20 now will save you £10 a year.”

Nice one you rampaging bumhole. What about the other £3990 of the electric bill? What an enormous cretin. Seriously, what did we do to deserve this calibre of politician?

Ah, more fake news spread around on Twitter.

https://mobile.twitter.com/FullFact/status/1565735049424580608

Duty281 wrote:

Samo wrote:Outgoing “PM” and perpetual Frak Johnson popped his head out from under the parapet to deliver some excellent assistance to people struggling with their energy bills;

“If you have an old kettle, it may cost £20 to replace it. But spending that £20 now will save you £10 a year.”

Nice one you rampaging bumhole. What about the other £3990 of the electric bill? What an enormous cretin. Seriously, what did we do to deserve this calibre of politician?

Ah, more fake news spread around on Twitter.

https://mobile.twitter.com/FullFact/status/1565735049424580608

I’ll hold my hands up and admit I got that one wrong in a hasty fervor. Thank you for the correction.

I will still maintain he is a rampaging bumhole though.

Truss being announced today. Nice 7/2 winner, barring the most monumental shock.

Truss will be inheriting a situation where the Tories trail by (on average) 10% in the polls. The smallest Labour lead is 4%, the largest 17%. She's got just under two years to turn it around (normally you would expect the next GE to be held in May 2024, but she could hold off until January 2025, so maybe a bit longer).

I can't find a situation where a PM started with such a big polling deficit, but she'll probably draw inspiration from Major - Labour were in the lead for most of 1991 and in the run-up to the 1992 main event, yet the Tories won a majority at the 1992 GE.

On the positive side for Truss, she will have a sizable parliamentary majority and a weak opposition to contend with. She'll also likely get the new manager bounce in the polling. Her biggest issue with winning the next GE are the economic problems and the upcoming winter of discontent, as well as the huge issues with her image and skill as a political operator - the more Tory voters have seen of her this campaign, the less they like her:

Truss wins. Probably a closer margin than anticipated - 57.4%-42.6%.

The third female PM of our beloved nation.

Always good when the polls close when people actually see you in action. Looks an incredible lightweight cabinet of whoever's still standing at this point

Duty281 wrote:On the positive side for Truss, she will have a sizable parliamentary majority and a weak opposition to contend with. She'll also likely get the new manager bounce in the polling. Her biggest issue with winning the next GE are the economic problems and the upcoming winter of discontent, as well as the huge issues with her image and skill as a political operator - the more Tory voters have seen of her this campaign, the less they like her.

When your two biggest problems are impending economic disaster and your utter lack of skill as a politician everything else is quite inconsequential.

If the rump of the Parliamentary party is not behind her even before she starts,plus, that percentage of the gammons not being particularly impressed, doesn't bode well for her.At all. She's dead in the water already in fact.

It should really be the tail end of this extended government. They've long past ran out of talent, it's going to be a brutal winter and they continue to eat themselves alive

*Should* because will Starmer and co actually take advantage

I tend to vote for parties that give me confidence that they can run the country with competence.  I am not looking for grand pie in the sky projects I just want them to run the country competently, focus on providing the conditions for job creation - real jobs - without exploiting people.  I want them to be realistic and pragmatic and open.  I don't want them to be pontificating on the global stage - I don't want them being aggressive, supporting and participating in wars, demanding other nations must adopt certain values or else - I want them to be diplomatic, pragmatic and focus on beneficial trade.  

I want good planning for energy security, food security, making Britain self sufficient, or if not self sufficent having a number of alternative supply chains rather than being overly dependent on one supplier - and if you are dependent on one supplier be realistic and don't cut off that supply to make a point on the global stage - and lead Britain into an economic crisis.  All this stuff about going green - most of it was rhetoric and unrealistic hopium - the technology  isn't there yet - and nuclear power is the only realistic alternative at the present time.

I think I have wandered off point.  Anyway the Conservatives have been in power for a long time and I have seen a lot of self-interest, a lot of infighting, a lot of pontificating, a lack of openness, a lot of rhetoric and now disastrous decision making.   They are not competent and Liz Truss now as leader - someone who looks to be a sort of empty vessel with no obvious mind or political intelligence - what a mess Britain is in.  

I have come to the conclusion for some time that in Britain we are facing a crisis in the quality of our political class.  However the Conservatives have proven to be a disaster and there seems to be no hope in sight with them at the helm.

I am not sure where I would place it percentage wise, but I do think there is a chunky set of outcomes where Truss never even makes it to the next election.

As Duty says, she has some huge domestic issues to deal with which she seems to think will be over by next Spring - she will be in for a shock. She isn’t particularly a skilful politician or leader. She is not popular in the parliamentary party and not overly popular among the members either. If the Party continues to lag 10-15 points behind Labour at this point next year I would not be shocked if they pulled the trigger again.

Priti Patel jumps before she's pushed and resigns.

Christ, two resignations already! Time for Liz to go!

In all seriousness, it's time for a political life on the backbenches for Patel where she drifts slowly into anonymity.

Duty281 wrote:Christ, two resignations already! Time for Liz to go!

In all seriousness, it's time for a political life on the backbenches for Patel where she drifts slowly into anonymity.

Forever in our hearts....

JDizzle wrote:I am not sure where I would place it percentage wise, but I do think there is a chunky set of outcomes where Truss never even makes it to the next election.

As Duty says, she has some huge domestic issues to deal with which she seems to think will be over by next Spring - she will be in for a shock. She isn’t particularly a skilful politician or leader. She is not popular in the parliamentary party and not overly popular among the members either. If the Party continues to lag 10-15 points behind Labour at this point next year I would not be shocked if they pulled the trigger again.

I don't think there's much chance of Truss being out before the next GE. Only health/currently unknown scandal of a very egregious nature/civil unrest would see her out before then. It might be different if there were some brilliant political figure from the backbenches waiting in the wings, but there isn't one.

I imagine that Truss will be hoping the bleak economic picture will be showing signs of recovery in late 2023/early 2024. If the GE had to be held by May 2023, the Tories would certainly be sunk. As it is the Tories still have a chance, in much the same way that Brown had a chance of holding on in 2010. Truss isn't a particularly skilful politician or leader, true, but neither is Starmer so it cancels out.

Truss may not be massively popular with her MPs, but they will get behind her for now and in the run-up to the GE because those MPs know their chances of staying in a job are best served by forming a united front. Similar story with the members. There won't be any large-scale infighting like there always is with the Labour party.

The big issues for Labour are the same - the economy and Starmer. Despite everything that is happening, Labour's lead on the economy from a poll of polls is just under a 1% with 35% don't knows, so this is a more than recoverable gap for Truss over the next 20 months.

With regards to Starmer, he appears to have a narrow lead over Truss in the best PM polling, though this is early days and there's limited data. Against this, Starmer's approval ratings are low (-14 with Opinium recently, which is the lowest he's ever been with them), and 57% do not see him as a PM in waiting, which is a very worrying stat as Corbyn was only just a bit higher in the 60s for much of his leadership. This 57% also includes 37% of Labour voters.

For now I still think the Tories are the most likely to win the next GE, but there's a long way to go. They currently have 157 MPs more than Labour and that's going to be difficult to make up for the opposition.

[quote="Duty281"]

JDizzle wrote:I am not sure where I would place it percentage wise, but I do think there is a chunky set of outcomes where Truss never even makes it to the next election.

As Duty says, she has some huge domestic issues to deal with which she seems to think will be over by next Spring - she will be in for a shock. She isn’t particularly a skilful politician or leader. She is not popular in the parliamentary party and not overly popular among the members either. If the Party continues to lag 10-15 points behind Labour at this point next year I would not be shocked if they pulled the trigger again.

I don't think there's much chance of Truss being out before the next GE. Only health/currently unknown scandal of a very egregious nature/civil unrest would see her out before then. It might be different if there were some brilliant political figure from the backbenches waiting in the wings, but there isn't one.

I imagine that Truss will be hoping the bleak economic picture will be showing signs of recovery in late 2023/early 2024. If the GE had to be held by May 2023, the Tories would certainly be sunk. As it is the Tories still have a chance, in much the same way that Brown had a chance of holding on in 2010. Truss isn't a particularly skilful politician or leader, true, but neither is Starmer so it cancels out.

Truss may not be massively popular with her MPs, but they will get behind her for now and in the run-up to the GE because those MPs know their chances of staying in a job are best served by forming a united front. Similar story with the members. There won't be any large-scale infighting like there always is with the Labour party.

Whilst I agree that both leaders are weak.

If she does what she says (cutting taxes to help the rich, changing workers rights etc). That will cause a backlash that is unneeded and opens the door for Starmer to position himself for them, and if a number of mps who's only interest is self interest believe it's costing them, then they could start backstabbing. If she gets it right then she could coast the next GE.
She's not going to have a few weeks to settle in, she has to straight away get it right. And unfortunately I don't believe she will.

Good news for her in Nadine Dorries has resigned. To sit and stare at her Boris posters.

Apparently there are already 12 MPs ready to submit no confidence letters in Liz Truss with the hopes of triggering another leadership contest by the turn of the year to get Johnson back in the top job.

Luke wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

JDizzle wrote:I am not sure where I would place it percentage wise, but I do think there is a chunky set of outcomes where Truss never even makes it to the next election.

As Duty says, she has some huge domestic issues to deal with which she seems to think will be over by next Spring - she will be in for a shock. She isn’t particularly a skilful politician or leader. She is not popular in the parliamentary party and not overly popular among the members either. If the Party continues to lag 10-15 points behind Labour at this point next year I would not be shocked if they pulled the trigger again.

I don't think there's much chance of Truss being out before the next GE. Only health/currently unknown scandal of a very egregious nature/civil unrest would see her out before then. It might be different if there were some brilliant political figure from the backbenches waiting in the wings, but there isn't one.

I imagine that Truss will be hoping the bleak economic picture will be showing signs of recovery in late 2023/early 2024. If the GE had to be held by May 2023, the Tories would certainly be sunk. As it is the Tories still have a chance, in much the same way that Brown had a chance of holding on in 2010. Truss isn't a particularly skilful politician or leader, true, but neither is Starmer so it cancels out.

Truss may not be massively popular with her MPs, but they will get behind her for now and in the run-up to the GE because those MPs know their chances of staying in a job are best served by forming a united front. Similar story with the members. There won't be any large-scale infighting like there always is with the Labour party.

Whilst I agree that both leaders are weak.

If she does what she says (cutting taxes to help the rich, changing workers rights etc). That will cause a backlash that is unneeded and opens the door for Starmer to position himself for them, and if a number of mps who's only interest is self interest believe it's costing them,  then they could start backstabbing.  If she gets it right then she could coast the next GE.  
She's not going to have a few weeks to settle in, she has to straight away get it right. And unfortunately I don't believe she will.

Yes, the tax cuts she seems to be proposing at the moment benefit the rich more, but I suppose she's gambling on the idea that this will help the wider economy in the medium-term and make the overall picture look better in 2024. We'll see what support she gives to the poorest households over the winter, and whether she'll push ahead with more radical ideas such as cutting VAT.

I think she would be mad to touch workers' rights, especially with the current situation of strikes. For her sake I hope she is advised away from this. Of course, Truss (like some other Remainers) comes from a school of thought that British workers are lazy, unlike their European counterparts, and this may be her motivation.

Polling indicates that expectations of her as PM are rock-bottom, but this could ultimately work in her favour. I agree she needs to get it right straight away.

Samo wrote:Apparently there are already 12 MPs ready to submit no confidence letters in Liz Truss with the hopes of triggering another leadership contest by the turn of the year to get Johnson back in the top job.

Did Nadine take the headcount

Duty281 wrote:
I think she would be mad to touch workers' rights, especially with the current situation of strikes. For her sake I hope she is advised away from this. Of course, Truss (like some other Remainers) comes from a school of thought that British workers are lazy, unlike their European counterparts, and this may be her motivation.

Boris Johnson once referred to the working class as "criminal, aimless and feckless" and Dominic Raab, Kwasi Kwarteng and Priti Patel also put their names to Britannia Unchained (along with Truss) which described working class Brits as "among the worst idlers in the world".

Sounds more like Tory ideology than remainer ideology to me.

Duty281 wrote:Truss may not be massively popular with her MPs, but they will get behind her for now and in the run-up to the GE because those MPs know their chances of staying in a job are best served by forming a united front. Similar story with the members. There won't be any large-scale infighting like there always is with the Labour party.

That's a good one, thanks Duty!

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Truss may not be massively popular with her MPs, but they will get behind her for now and in the run-up to the GE because those MPs know their chances of staying in a job are best served by forming a united front. Similar story with the members. There won't be any large-scale infighting like there always is with the Labour party.

That's a good one, thanks Duty!

The only reason they have not had that much infighting so far is that they kicked out half of the party. Now Truss has snubbed the Sunak faction in its entirety and is doing her best to piss off those who might be described as more moderate, hence the following tweet that goes back to Johnny Mercer's wife...

https://twitter.com/peterwalker99/status/1567231942034079745?s=20&t=_GxjIXcz_dj_yNvkAlLVSA

Truss isn't suited to holding the Conservative party together.

It is probably pretty obvious I am not a fan of the Tories, but under our current political system we need 2 functional parties, and it would really be the best for everyone, including the Tories, if they just fecked off into opposition for a while and sorted themselves out.

Just to add to the above, if the rumors about Johnson's resignation honours are true then there will be a whole heap of byelections coming up. Of course when the LD's take seats off the Tories our buddy here will claim it is because of Labour's weakness, but that majority in the HoC will be steadily eroded.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Truss may not be massively popular with her MPs, but they will get behind her for now and in the run-up to the GE because those MPs know their chances of staying in a job are best served by forming a united front. Similar story with the members. There won't be any large-scale infighting like there always is with the Labour party.

That's a good one, thanks Duty!

Well...there won't be. Bet you Truss won't have the same problems Starmer has had.

Samo wrote:

Duty281 wrote:
I think she would be mad to touch workers' rights, especially with the current situation of strikes. For her sake I hope she is advised away from this. Of course, Truss (like some other Remainers) comes from a school of thought that British workers are lazy, unlike their European counterparts, and this may be her motivation.

Boris Johnson once referred to the working class as "criminal, aimless and feckless" and Dominic Raab, Kwasi Kwarteng and Priti Patel also put their names to Britannia Unchained (along with Truss) which described working class Brits as "among the worst idlers in the world".

Sounds more like Tory ideology than remainer ideology to me.

We all know the line of 'we need Europeans to do the jobs that British workers are too lazy to do' was a cornerstone of the Remain argument, largely promoted by the likes of Lib Dems like Farron and Clegg, but also Labour types such as Harriet Harman.

Duty281 wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Truss may not be massively popular with her MPs, but they will get behind her for now and in the run-up to the GE because those MPs know their chances of staying in a job are best served by forming a united front. Similar story with the members. There won't be any large-scale infighting like there always is with the Labour party.

That's a good one, thanks Duty!

Well...there won't be. Bet you Truss won't have the same problems Starmer has had.

Starmer took over in the middle of a 'poop' storm, and has largely unified the party. Yes of course there are still problems, but the factions that were energised by Corbyn are considerably weaker than they were, however vocal they remain. That is probably the main difference between the two parties at the moment - not the level of discontent but rather how vocal that discontent is.

It is of course up for discussion but Starmer has a strong shadow cabinet, and Truss one of the weakest cabinets ever. This kind of thing will make a difference.

Duty281 wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Truss may not be massively popular with her MPs, but they will get behind her for now and in the run-up to the GE because those MPs know their chances of staying in a job are best served by forming a united front. Similar story with the members. There won't be any large-scale infighting like there always is with the Labour party.

That's a good one, thanks Duty!

Well...there won't be. Bet you Truss won't have the same problems Starmer has had.

I just don't know how you can look at how the Conservatives have torn themselves apart since 2016, at the brutal leadership campaign they've just had, and at the culling of pro-Sunak MPs from ministerial positions, and predict that 'there won't be any large-scale infighting'.

lostinwales wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Truss may not be massively popular with her MPs, but they will get behind her for now and in the run-up to the GE because those MPs know their chances of staying in a job are best served by forming a united front. Similar story with the members. There won't be any large-scale infighting like there always is with the Labour party.

That's a good one, thanks Duty!

Well...there won't be. Bet you Truss won't have the same problems Starmer has had.

Starmer took over in the middle of a 'poop' storm, and has largely unified the party. Yes of course there are still problems, but the factions that were energised by Corbyn are considerably weaker than they were, however vocal they remain. That is probably the main difference between the two parties at the moment - not the level of discontent but rather how vocal that discontent is.

It is of course up for discussion but Starmer has a strong shadow cabinet, and Truss one of the weakest cabinets ever. This kind of thing will make a difference.

I don't agree that Starmer has largely unified the party. There is still a sizable rump on the left of Labour who dislike Starmer intensely and are undermining him at every point and turn. They may be weaker in terms of power, but they still make life difficult for him. Truss doesn't have that problem. The Tory members are, by and large, all pulling in the same direction, as are the MPs. This is the historic and current reason why the Tories are much more successful at winning elections than Labour.

I also disagree that Starmer has a strong shadow cabinet. With the exception of Cooper, Nandy and perhaps Streeting, it is comprised of political lightweights such as Lammy or Reeves, and non-entities that the average joe hasn't heard of, like Phillipson or Dodds.

Truss' cabinet is also mostly weak, but it cancels out. This is of course all down to the very low standard of MPs that currently exist.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Truss may not be massively popular with her MPs, but they will get behind her for now and in the run-up to the GE because those MPs know their chances of staying in a job are best served by forming a united front. Similar story with the members. There won't be any large-scale infighting like there always is with the Labour party.

That's a good one, thanks Duty!

Well...there won't be. Bet you Truss won't have the same problems Starmer has had.

I just don't know how you can look at how the Conservatives have torn themselves apart since 2016, at the brutal leadership campaign they've just had, and at the culling of pro-Sunak MPs from ministerial positions, and predict that 'there won't be any large-scale infighting'.

Because once the dust settles the Tories get behind their leader for elections. It's what they do and it's why they are so successful at winning elections. Truss will have the support of her MPs and the party members until the next General Election, barring a scandal or her doing something egregiously wrong. If she fails at the GE, they'll turn on her, like they did with May, and she'll be out. Until then she has support.

Think at best it's tentative. Can't really say she's carrying the supreme confidence of either the MPs or the membership (didn't really decimate Sunak who was deeply unpopular with membership). If she can't inspire much of a turnaround then MPs in marginals will start getting twitchy pretty quickly I think.

Boris Johnson could be the next General Secretary of NATO as it is widely expected that the current incumbent Jens Stoltenberg will stand down in September next year. Apparently he has a lot of backers for the post. However some critics suggest that Boris Johnson lacks diplomatic skills and could end up destroying the world if he were appointed.

The problems for Labour will start in the run up to the next election when Starmer has to publish his manifest, at that point the left of the party will become more vocal again with their dissatisfaction as will the membership. Elections energise all factions within political parties.

Possibly, or there might well be discipline as with pre 97.
Alas the likes of Owen Jones and Novara media will not shut up in pursuit of a perfect leader and a perfect society.
I  am actually quite optimistic that people will seize the last opportunity to get electoral reform so as to lock out the zealots once and for all.
And I don't think people are aware of manifestoes any more, instead and it's an unpopular view, but government loses elections, oppositions don't win them.

The Novara media lot seem to think we can turn Britain into a socialist utopia overnight, and anyone who disagrees must be far right.

Owen Jones is just a Mr Winklechops.

Duty281 wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Truss may not be massively popular with her MPs, but they will get behind her for now and in the run-up to the GE because those MPs know their chances of staying in a job are best served by forming a united front. Similar story with the members. There won't be any large-scale infighting like there always is with the Labour party.

That's a good one, thanks Duty!

Well...there won't be. Bet you Truss won't have the same problems Starmer has had.

I just don't know how you can look at how the Conservatives have torn themselves apart since 2016, at the brutal leadership campaign they've just had, and at the culling of pro-Sunak MPs from ministerial positions, and predict that 'there won't be any large-scale infighting'.

Because once the dust settles the Tories get behind their leader for elections. It's what they do and it's why they are so successful at winning elections. Truss will have the support of her MPs and the party members until the next General Election, barring a scandal or her doing something egregiously wrong. If she fails at the GE, they'll turn on her, like they did with May, and she'll be out. Until then she has support.

If they're scudding along in the polls, if there's barely a bounce, then I really think you're being optimistic in your assessment of Tory MPs' willingness to stand by their woman. They don't owe their seats to her, a majority of them didn't want her as leader in the first place, and if she remains unpopular with the public, they may see that their best hope of retaining their seats is to distance themselves from her.

The pound has crashed to its lowest level against the dollar since 1985. The markets don't have much faith in Truss either

The governments plan seems to be borrowing and printing more money.  

A while back I seem to recall that our coal reserves would last a few hundred years but because of green policies I think most of our coal fired power stations have been shut down - maybe all of them (I am not sure).   I seem to recall a few years back China busy building lots of coal fired power stations.  Switching to gas - a short term solution - releases less carbon than coal per energy unit obtained.  I seem to recall also that natural gas is best used for providing direct heating - rather than being converted into electrical energy and then that electrical energy being converted into heat energy.  Governments don't have many things to get right - but providing affordable energy in the short, medium and long term must be one of the priorities.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Truss may not be massively popular with her MPs, but they will get behind her for now and in the run-up to the GE because those MPs know their chances of staying in a job are best served by forming a united front. Similar story with the members. There won't be any large-scale infighting like there always is with the Labour party.

That's a good one, thanks Duty!

Well...there won't be. Bet you Truss won't have the same problems Starmer has had.

I just don't know how you can look at how the Conservatives have torn themselves apart since 2016, at the brutal leadership campaign they've just had, and at the culling of pro-Sunak MPs from ministerial positions, and predict that 'there won't be any large-scale infighting'.

Because once the dust settles the Tories get behind their leader for elections. It's what they do and it's why they are so successful at winning elections. Truss will have the support of her MPs and the party members until the next General Election, barring a scandal or her doing something egregiously wrong. If she fails at the GE, they'll turn on her, like they did with May, and she'll be out. Until then she has support.

If they're scudding along in the polls, if there's barely a bounce, then I really think you're being optimistic in your assessment of Tory MPs' willingness to stand by their woman. They don't owe their seats to her, a majority of them didn't want her as leader in the first place, and if she remains unpopular with the public, they may see that their best hope of retaining their seats is to distance themselves from her.

Yes, but they can't distance themselves from her. Their chances of retaining their seats rely on Truss doing well, so they will support her until the next GE (barring huge scandal/civil unrest).

Truss' first big announcement relates to energy bills, unsurprisingly. Effectively capping the bills at £2,500, not £3,549, for a two year period, and retaining the £400 payment in October, funded through eye-watering levels of borrowing.

Will help manage the situation in the short-term, likely to be a ratings winner, but in the long-term...?

I note the two years, as well. That will take it past the next GE, so the announcement is made with a clear look at winning the next election in mind. What will happen after the two years? Gawd knows...

Duty281 wrote:Truss' first big announcement relates to energy bills, unsurprisingly. Effectively capping the bills at £2,500, not £3,549, for a two year period, and retaining the £400 payment in October, funded through eye-watering levels of borrowing.

Will help manage the situation in the short-term, likely to be a ratings winner, but in the long-term...?

I note the two years, as well. That will take it past the next GE, so the announcement is made with a clear look at winning the next election in mind. What will happen after the two years? Gawd knows...

Well I'd think the hope is the Ukraine War may have resolved itself and relations thawed a bit with Russia enough for the gas pipeline to be re-opened alleviating the problem somewhat.

Looks like the Queen is either on the way out or has checked out already.

Samo wrote:Looks like the Queen is either on the way out or has checked out already.

As I thought when Leonard Cohen bought the farm immediately before Trump was elected; perfect timing.
She doesn't deserve seeing Britannia turn to excrement.

I’ve got a friend in a production company and he’s expecting an announcement to be made at 3pm. They’re all currently on stand by, could be a long night for him if the new doesnt break by 5.

Heard similar but to be honest if every family member is flying in urgently and she's not being moved to hospital then yeah.

King Harry and Queen Meghan has a nice ring to it - a post-modern royalty for todays Britain.

Would she be the first queen to go on oprah

No name Bertie wrote:King Harry and Queen Meghan has a nice ring to it - a post-modern royalty for todays Britain.

Can't imagine anything worse.

Time for the monarchy to draw to a respectful close. Charles can transition it to a dignified conclusion.

Andrews doing his best to get there.

Might be sweating for the first time

Duty281 wrote:

No name Bertie wrote:King Harry and Queen Meghan has a nice ring to it - a post-modern royalty for todays Britain.

Can't imagine anything worse.

Time for the monarchy to draw to a respectful close. Charles can transition it to a dignified conclusion.

Agree with this. The monarchy is just daft without her.

I like the image of Charles transitioning.He should reign as another queen.