Super Rugby 2023

Same Teams as last season, the five Aussie and Five Kiwi clubs plus the Moana Pasifika and Fujian Drua. Starts Friday, 24 February, 2023.

Pretty interesting match between Brumbies against Waratahs in Sydney.  And for their first hit out of the season, surprisingly well played. Ended as 25-31 to the visiting team, the Brumbies.

Also saw Nadolo come on as a sub for Tahs.  Crowd cheered when he touched the ball, but not much impact, but probably needs tp acclimate to the new clubs.

Interesting watching the Super Rugby today. Four teams, each playing with real 10s, 12s, 13s in their proper positions. Please share with the RFU...

Went to watch the super rugby highlights just now and couldn't believe my eyes that they decided to this "super round" thing again in Melbourne. It was an embarrassment last year and the attendances are, of course, awful this year, just what are they thinking here?

Meanwhile the NZ warriors just attracted a crowd of 16k in the NRL playing in Wellington (they are normally based in Auckland). These are incredibly worrying times for domestic rugby in the SH, I've said this before but it won't take much for crowds to completely disappear with the emergence of soccer (expanded world cup will help NZ) and the NRL. There are constant talks of another NRL franchise in NZ and I'm sure taking the Warriors to Wellington was to test the waters for a franchise there.

The RWC in Australia I think was given to them to help them regain ground that they have lost to Aussie Rules, NRL and football. Hopefully its used as a catalyst to reignite the popularity of Rugby there as union have few enough competative teams without losing one.

To be fair, the only country which appears to have its Rugby finances and business in order is France.  Everyone else is near the edge and/or just hanging on.  Rugby has no strategic planning, no management brains, no nothing.  No wonder the sport is fighting a number of crises and seems to me to be at a major inflection point.  And needs to fight on numerous fronts simultaneously.  

Our sport is a great sport to play or watch.  So many people stay involved playing later in life than most sports.  And the game has given a lot to all of us.  Can certainly speak for myself here.    How the hell did we allow Rugby to get to this point?  Sorry to be stark about this, but we have a major mess here and the cleaning lady is working from home....

By the way, I did enjoy the Rebels-Hurricanes match yesterday,

doctor_grey wrote:To be fair, the only country which appears to have its Rugby finances and business in order is France.  Everyone else is near the edge and/or just hanging on.  Rugby has no strategic planning, no management brains, no nothing.  No wonder the sport is fighting a number of crises and seems to me to be at a major inflection point.  And needs to fight on numerous fronts simultaneously.  

Our sport is a great sport to play or watch.  So many people stay involved playing later in life than most sports.  And the game has given a lot to all of us.  Can certainly speak for myself here.    How the hell did we allow Rugby to get to this point?  Sorry to be stark about this, but we have a major mess here and the cleaning lady is working from home....

By the way, I did enjoy the Rebels-Hurricanes match yesterday,

Waiting for the thunder of Irish feet into the thread to argue otherwise!

TAFKA The Oracle wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:To be fair, the only country which appears to have its Rugby finances and business in order is France.  Everyone else is near the edge and/or just hanging on.  Rugby has no strategic planning, no management brains, no nothing.  No wonder the sport is fighting a number of crises and seems to me to be at a major inflection point.  And needs to fight on numerous fronts simultaneously.  

Our sport is a great sport to play or watch.  So many people stay involved playing later in life than most sports.  And the game has given a lot to all of us.  Can certainly speak for myself here.    How the hell did we allow Rugby to get to this point?  Sorry to be stark about this, but we have a major mess here and the cleaning lady is working from home....

By the way, I did enjoy the Rebels-Hurricanes match yesterday,

Waiting for the thunder of Irish feet into the thread to argue otherwise!

Yeah, but that would be wrong or simply naive.  They are so tied into the boat anchors around them, if Rugby goes down, they go too.  Unlike the Kiwis, they simply can't play with themselves and survive as proper pro sport.  Besides, we can't have a real forensic look into their business, not just top line, so no one knows what really lies under their bed.

Oh right, I see what you mean now Doc. They’re not self sufficient and can only thrive if others are still in the league with them. Yeah, I guess I agree on that front. I guess I was responding to ‘having rugby finances and business in order’. Purely on that front I’d say they’re fine and doing very well. But yes, it does hinge on others to a certain extent.

doctor_grey wrote:

TAFKA The Oracle wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:To be fair, the only country which appears to have its Rugby finances and business in order is France.  Everyone else is near the edge and/or just hanging on.  Rugby has no strategic planning, no management brains, no nothing.  No wonder the sport is fighting a number of crises and seems to me to be at a major inflection point.  And needs to fight on numerous fronts simultaneously.  

Our sport is a great sport to play or watch.  So many people stay involved playing later in life than most sports.  And the game has given a lot to all of us.  Can certainly speak for myself here.    How the hell did we allow Rugby to get to this point?  Sorry to be stark about this, but we have a major mess here and the cleaning lady is working from home....

By the way, I did enjoy the Rebels-Hurricanes match yesterday,

Waiting for the thunder of Irish feet into the thread to argue otherwise!

Yeah, but that would be wrong or simply naive.  They are so tied into the boat anchors around them, if Rugby goes down, they go too.  Unlike the Kiwis, they simply can't play with themselves and survive as proper pro sport.  Besides, we can't have a real forensic look into their business, not just top line, so no one knows what really lies under their bed.

it's very worrying what is happening to domestic rugby at the minuet. I was really taken aback by how low the turnout was for the Crusaders' first home game, imagine what their crowds would be like if they werent so successful?

Yet at the same time we have never had so many different professional sides and leagues. We've seen competitions like MLR, SLAR, Europe super Cup and the Japanese league transition to full time professional. There's also talk of a new professional competition in Asia starting up soon so clearly people still see that there is potential there. I don't know what the answer is.

TAFKA The Oracle wrote:Oh right, I see what you mean now Doc. They’re not self sufficient and can only thrive if others are still in the league with them. Yeah, I guess I agree on that front. I guess I was responding to ‘having rugby finances and business in order’. Purely on that front I’d say they’re fine and doing very well. But yes, it does hinge on others to a certain extent.

No business is better off than their partners if in a field with no other realistic options. No, the Irish are just as screwed as everyone else in the British Isles. And if they managed their business better, as we believe, then they were still engaged in the same naval gazing as every other unions are are not remotely above the current problems. As with Australia, And South Africa. And Argentina. And. And.

doctor_grey wrote:

TAFKA The Oracle wrote:Oh right, I see what you mean now Doc. They’re not self sufficient and can only thrive if others are still in the league with them. Yeah, I guess I agree on that front. I guess I was responding to ‘having rugby finances and business in order’. Purely on that front I’d say they’re fine and doing very well. But yes, it does hinge on others to a certain extent.

No business is better off than their partners if in a field with no other realistic options.  No, the Irish are just as screwed as everyone else in the British Isles.  And if they managed their business better, as we believe, then they were still engaged in the same naval gazing as every other unions are are not remotely above the current problems.  As with Australia,  And South Africa.  And Argentina.  And.  And.  

See the "Fiddling while Rome burns" thread on the International section. No one is interested.

Also this "Irish" (lets not get into the multilayered politics of that for British passport holder) supporter doesn't believe that everything is sunny. Totally agree that without the URC (for good or bad) Irish rugby would be doomed, and the problems in Wales could suck us all down anyway. And while the South Africans are good for the quality of the competition I can't see the travel being sustainable, in all its meanings.

I might have to watch the error strewn but highly entertaining 91 point-fest between Munster and Scarlets to cheer myself up. I fear the Ulster v Cardiff game tonight may not offer the same thrills.

Perhaps I should say that I think no one is interested on here because of the idiotic tribal slanging match that usually ensues.

We need to better, just like the Unions need to better at running the sport.

Unclear wrote:Perhaps I should say that I think no one is interested on here because of the idiotic tribal slanging match that usually ensues.

We need to better, just like the Unions need to better at running the sport.

I gotcha. And I think you are right. I'm not knocking anyone.  Just the opposite, I'm saying Rugby has a big problem and no one is immune.  And the blame lies with every Union, as they are the stakeholders in World Rugby.  

Shouldn't have taken this so far off target, but that's the way conversations go sometimes.  The future of Rugby is a great topic, but so is Super Rugby....

That wasn't a dig at you, or even TAFKA, sorry if you thought it was. It is good to see someone calling out the problems, and there seem to plenty we are trying to ignore.

Watching Rebels v Waratahs - I know they're two of the lower ranked teams in the comp but the quality really is terrible. It's like watching a game of touch at times.

Would quite confidently expect most URC or AP teams to comfortably beat both!

Surprised nobody is talking about the Druas incredible victory over the Crusaders. They really are the best thing that has happened to Super rugby in a long time.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Surprised nobody is talking about the Druas incredible victory over the Crusaders. They really are the best thing that has happened to Super rugby in a long time.

They've got so much talent they can tap into but keeping hold of their brightest talents is going to be tough. Statement wins like this will be great for them and hopefully attract the sort of sponsors and investment that will allow them to play in Fiji at their own ground.

Been meaning to catch up on this. A bit of a shock that 'saders lost their opening 2 games. Cheifs seem to be doing very well.

Drua and Moana have talent, that's no surprise. French clubs have known about the talent in the pacific for a number of years now...

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:

TAFKA The Oracle wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:To be fair, the only country which appears to have its Rugby finances and business in order is France.  Everyone else is near the edge and/or just hanging on.  Rugby has no strategic planning, no management brains, no nothing.  No wonder the sport is fighting a number of crises and seems to me to be at a major inflection point.  And needs to fight on numerous fronts simultaneously.  

Our sport is a great sport to play or watch.  So many people stay involved playing later in life than most sports.  And the game has given a lot to all of us.  Can certainly speak for myself here.    How the hell did we allow Rugby to get to this point?  Sorry to be stark about this, but we have a major mess here and the cleaning lady is working from home....

By the way, I did enjoy the Rebels-Hurricanes match yesterday,

Waiting for the thunder of Irish feet into the thread to argue otherwise!

Yeah, but that would be wrong or simply naive.  They are so tied into the boat anchors around them, if Rugby goes down, they go too.  Unlike the Kiwis, they simply can't play with themselves and survive as proper pro sport.  Besides, we can't have a real forensic look into their business, not just top line, so no one knows what really lies under their bed.

it's very worrying what is happening to domestic rugby at the minuet. I was really taken aback by how low the turnout was for the Crusaders' first home game, imagine what their crowds would be like if they werent so successful?

Yet at the same time we have never had so many different professional sides and leagues. We've seen competitions like MLR, SLAR, Europe super Cup and the Japanese league transition to full time professional. There's also talk of a new professional competition in Asia starting up soon so clearly people still see that there is potential there. I don't know what the answer is.

NZRU will be fine, they keep milking other unions for money don't they.

mikey_dragon wrote:Been meaning to catch up on this. A bit of a shock that 'saders lost their opening 2 games. Cheifs seem to be doing very well.

Drua and Moana have talent, that's no surprise. French clubs have known about the talent in the pacific for a number of years now...

Yes but they tend to like signing it early to get around the JIFF regulations.

Can't say that it's just France that goes to the rugby player factories in the Pacific Islands.

That is true, but France and Japan are the best at it it would seem.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Went to watch the super rugby highlights just now and couldn't believe my eyes that they decided to this "super round" thing again in Melbourne. It was an embarrassment last year and the attendances are, of course, awful this year, just what are they thinking here?

Meanwhile the NZ warriors just attracted a crowd of 16k in the NRL playing in Wellington (they are normally based in Auckland). These are incredibly worrying times for domestic rugby in the SH, I've said this before but it won't take much for crowds to completely disappear with the emergence of soccer (expanded world cup will help NZ) and the NRL. There are constant talks of another NRL franchise in NZ and I'm sure taking the Warriors to Wellington was to test the waters for a franchise there.

Watched the Rebels v reds last week, now watching the brumbies v warathas. Very few in the crowd for both games.

Mate of mine living there says, union is a dying sport in Aus.
Aussie rules, league, cricket, more popular than union, played more perhaps.
Soccer getting bigger each year to.
He said that youngsters just don’t play union/some not allowed??

Anyway, shame to see so many empty seats.

NZ home crowds have been poor. I suspect the public are just a bit bored of Super Rugby these days.

I wonder if ANZAC rugby will rue discarding the SA teams so easily? In the Covid years I can fully understand why that was necessary, but there's no doubt SR isn't the same now.

I'm a huge rugby fun but I've got to admit this season I've been regularly flicking the channel over to NRL or AFL during some of the SR games!

Bloody good game Brumbies 40 Waratahs 36

Tahs really should have won that which would have been a remarkable win given they've had a crap season and had 3 yellow cards in the game! 1 point up and the young 10 kicks the ball dead from his own 22 with only 4 minutes left - Brumbies score from the resulting plays. Fine margins.

Great contest though!

westisbest wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Went to watch the super rugby highlights just now and couldn't believe my eyes that they decided to this "super round" thing again in Melbourne. It was an embarrassment last year and the attendances are, of course, awful this year, just what are they thinking here?

Meanwhile the NZ warriors just attracted a crowd of 16k in the NRL playing in Wellington (they are normally based in Auckland). These are incredibly worrying times for domestic rugby in the SH, I've said this before but it won't take much for crowds to completely disappear with the emergence of soccer (expanded world cup will help NZ) and the NRL. There are constant talks of another NRL franchise in NZ and I'm sure taking the Warriors to Wellington was to test the waters for a franchise there.

Watched the Rebels v reds last week, now watching the brumbies v warathas. Very few in the crowd for both games.

Mate of mine living there says, union is a dying sport in Aus.
Aussie rules, league, cricket, more popular than union, played more perhaps.
Soccer getting bigger each year to.
He said that youngsters just don’t play union/some not allowed??

Anyway, shame to see so many empty seats.

Crowds have been mostly awful everywhere bar Fiji. Super rugby are so lucky that the Drua managed to get a team going as they are the only shinning light on what is a dying competition. I'm sorry to bang on about the NRL but it's an genuine threat at this stage... The NZ warriors (who used to be the laughing stock of the NRL due to poor crowds and performances) attracted another huge attendance of 18k in Auckland last weekend, so the cost of living excuse I see going around, doesn't cut it in NZ.

The only glimmer of hope I can see lies with the Japanese. I know Australia are mad to get them involved in a HC style competition and already have partnerships with different top league clubs. The top league has attracted some big attendances this season (20k for the Suntory v Wild knights game a couple of weeks ago for example) and I could see attendances explode there, if they were hosting the likes of the Crusaders. It also has the potential to be the largest TV market in the world if the their world Cup is anything to go by.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

westisbest wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Went to watch the super rugby highlights just now and couldn't believe my eyes that they decided to this "super round" thing again in Melbourne. It was an embarrassment last year and the attendances are, of course, awful this year, just what are they thinking here?

Meanwhile the NZ warriors just attracted a crowd of 16k in the NRL playing in Wellington (they are normally based in Auckland). These are incredibly worrying times for domestic rugby in the SH, I've said this before but it won't take much for crowds to completely disappear with the emergence of soccer (expanded world cup will help NZ) and the NRL. There are constant talks of another NRL franchise in NZ and I'm sure taking the Warriors to Wellington was to test the waters for a franchise there.

Watched the Rebels v reds last week, now watching the brumbies v warathas. Very few in the crowd for both games.

Mate of mine living there says, union is a dying sport in Aus.
Aussie rules, league, cricket, more popular than union, played more perhaps.
Soccer getting bigger each year to.
He said that youngsters just don’t play union/some not allowed??

Anyway, shame to see so many empty seats.

Crowds have been mostly awful everywhere bar Fiji. Super rugby are so lucky that the Drua managed to get a team going as they are the only shinning light on what is a dying competition. I'm sorry to bang on about the NRL but it's an genuine threat at this stage... The NZ warriors (who used to be the laughing stock of the NRL due to poor crowds and performances) attracted another huge attendance of 18k in Auckland last weekend, so the cost of living excuse I see going around, doesn't cut it in NZ.

The only glimmer of hope I can see lies with the Japanese. I know Australia are mad to get them involved in a HC style competition and already have partnerships with different top league clubs. The top league has attracted some big attendances this season (20k for the Suntory v Wild knights game a couple of weeks ago for example) and I could see attendances explode there, if they were hosting the likes of the Crusaders. It also has the potential to be the largest TV market in the world if the their world Cup is anything to go by.

RDW wrote:NZ home crowds have been poor. I suspect the public are just a bit bored of Super Rugby these days.

Ultimately I think this is the problem. The competition has nothing of a unique nature to it. And yes, kind of boring. When I think of the late 2000s when Super Rugby seemed to have terrific growth potential, it is hard to know how this was brought to the current state. It's not just Covid because I think the malaise had started before hand.

I think in Australia, Rugby was always in a fight with the other sports.

Forced myself to watch a full Super Rugby game, start to finish, for the first time since the end of March. Highlanders-Chiefs. As before, still a bit dull or uninspiring. Can't really say why. The ball skills are, of course, fine. There was a lot of running and well taken tries. But I still found it a bit of a hard watch.

On the plus side I saw Freddie Burns is playing for Highlanders, which I didn't know. I thought that despite Highlanders on the wrong end of a big score, he played pretty well.

Burns has done fine there, just back from injury so needs a run of a few good games.

It hasnt been a great year for super rugby. Most games seem to be foregone conclusions. The Aussie teams dont offer much of a challenge to the NZ sides. Even the Crusaders who usually dominate have been a bit off this year. The Chiefs are the top side but Id say they would stuggle against the top European teams.

Some interesting numbers behind the SARU decision to play in the northern hemisphere. Some very big numbers, but roughly divide by 20 to get a £/€ equivalent.

The game changer will be if/when they enter the 6N.

https://rugby365.com/news-european-cup/news-united-rugby-championship/sa-rugby-counts-the-cost-of-european-participation/

Was an interesting read.  
I wonder how the travel costs for the SA teams now compare to the old Super Rugby when the SA teams had to travel to Australia and New Zealand.  Also, I wonder how many people are actually travelling for the road trips, including players, coaches, staff, etc..

I saw this in The Guardian:  
South African teams are happy post-divorce but has Super Rugby lost its bite?
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2023/may/19/south-african-teams-are-happy-post-divorce-but-has-super-rugby-lost-its-bite

It is an interesting article but doesn't go too deep to answer the question, but the point for me is this is being discussed openly.  John Plumtree is quoted as saying the big loss is the physicality of the SA teams is missing.  I think we all had talked this when the divorce was announced.  

I wonder how the loss of regular club games against the SA and Argentina club teams will impact he Wallabies and All Blacks. For now they still play the Boks.   But that is still only a handful of games each year.  Can't think that makes up for the loss of the regular club games.  Reasonable?

The loss of physicallity is the least of their worries. The loss of interest and rise of rugby league in the area is of a far greater concern for Aus and NZ.

I've been living in Australia over 3 years now and I've got to say I'm finding the constant rugby bashing pretty boring now. It seems like people have been predicting the death of Australian rugby for the last 5 years and it's yet to happen. The ARU made an 8M profit last year, which is not to be sniffed at.

Yes, Super rugby is not as good as it was in the heyday of 2000-2015 era but sport changes, sport evolves and competitions need to as well. It's not as popular as NRL or AFL in Australia but that's always going to be a tough ask, just like you can't reasonably expect the Aviva Premiership to become more popular the the Premier league.

Let's not forget that during the Covid years, Super Rugby had to get rid of the SA teams out of practicality and necessity. I'm sure SR could have made more effort not to cut long-term ties with the SA and Argentinian teams but I can understand why they did. Thinking back, it's absolutely bonkers that they got to the point where there was a competition that had teams from Australia, NZ, SA, Argentina and Japan - no-one could understand the competition format, and the logistics and round the world travel was just unsustainable.

Super Rugby Pacific has a clear identity and common geography and cultural similarities that makes it easy for fans to buy into. I just watched a highly entertaining game between Waratahs and Fifi Drua with a few thousand Fijians in the crowd creating a great atmosphere. Would the Stormers playing in Sydney attract the same crowd? Probably not.

Of course it's not perfect and you get some poor game (Highlanders v Rebels earlier was terrible quality, albeit an exciting ending) but the Australian teams ar becoming more competitive. Brumbies are going to have a home playoff and are a genuine threat to kiwi teams, Reds beat table topping Chiefs last week and the Waratahs are peaking at the right time going into the finals.

What is a concern however is the diminishing popularity in NZ, where the crowds haven't been great. Again would SA teams being involved make much difference to that? Probably not. In the modern world there are many ways to spend your weekends, and it seems the kiwi fans aren't as enthusiastic as rugby as they used to be.

Bit of a rant, and not directed at anyone's comments on here, I just think it's a very lazy trope to keep banging on out about the death of rugby in Australia as to me it's definitely on an upward trajectory!

They’ve been predicting the death of Australian rugby for the last 20 years, not just the last 3 years…

Super rugby really needed to involve Fiji, Tonga and Samoa many years ago, not just the half arsed effort in the last few years. There has to be a better solution than Moana Pasifica too.

Drua are getting some good results. A bit concerning for Wales I’d imagine. Tonga will put out a class team too.

Just seen Freddie Burns win a key penalty with a jackal turnover in front of his own posts.

Wonders will never cease.

His team, the Highlanders went on to win.

Rugby Fan wrote:Just seen Freddie Burns win a key penalty with a jackal turnover in front of his own posts.

Wonders will never cease.

His team, the Highlanders went on to win.

Drinking on a Friday morn, mate?

Some really good tries in that match. It was Aaron Smith's last match for the highlanders and quite fittingly Fakatava scored a cracking try to win the game in the last minute. The Reds also scored a very tasty end to end try earlier in the match. The highlights are worth a watch.

Is Aaron Smith retiring? He has seemingly been around forever and almost always at a high level. Certainly earned his rest if so. And, presumably after the RWC?

He is off to Japan.

RDW wrote:I've been living in Australia over 3 years now and I've got to say I'm finding the constant rugby bashing pretty boring now. It seems like people have been predicting the death of Australian rugby for the last 5 years and it's yet to happen. The ARU made an 8M profit last year, which is not to be sniffed at.

Yes, Super rugby is not as good as it was in the heyday of 2000-2015 era but sport changes, sport evolves and competitions need to as well. It's not as popular as NRL or AFL in Australia but that's always going to be a tough ask, just like you can't reasonably expect the Aviva Premiership to become more popular the the Premier league.

Let's not forget that during the Covid years, Super Rugby had to get rid of the SA teams out of practicality and necessity. I'm sure SR could have made more effort not to cut long-term ties with the SA and Argentinian teams but I can understand why they did. Thinking back, it's absolutely bonkers that they got to the point where there was a competition that had teams from Australia, NZ, SA, Argentina and Japan - no-one could understand the competition format, and the logistics and round the world travel was just unsustainable.

Super Rugby Pacific has a clear identity and common geography and cultural similarities that makes it easy for fans to buy into. I just watched a highly entertaining game between Waratahs and Fifi Drua with a few thousand Fijians in the crowd creating a great atmosphere. Would the Stormers playing in Sydney attract the same crowd? Probably not.

Of course it's not perfect and you get some poor game (Highlanders v Rebels earlier was terrible quality, albeit an exciting ending) but the Australian teams ar becoming more competitive. Brumbies are going to have a home playoff and are a genuine threat to kiwi teams, Reds beat table topping Chiefs last week and the Waratahs are peaking at the right time going into the finals.

What is a concern however is the diminishing popularity in NZ, where the crowds haven't been great. Again would SA teams being involved make much difference to that? Probably not. In the modern world there are many ways to spend your weekends, and it seems the kiwi fans aren't as enthusiastic as rugby as they used to be.

Bit of a rant, and not directed at anyone's comments on here, I just think it's a very lazy trope to keep banging on out about the death of rugby in Australia as to me it's definitely on an upward trajectory!

I mean clearly it's not on an upward trajectory. Super rugby WAS more popular than the NRL in it's heyday, it had far higher attendances and interest. The NRL boom is only a quite recent phenomenon. Attendances for both domestic and internationals were far superior to league even in the 2010s. The Reds averaged 34k! in 2012 and 31k in 2013. They are now at a point where they don't even post attendances for some games. TV ratings are embarrassingly low and sometimes don't even feature.

This isn't about rugby "dying" in AUS, there will always be a scene there and they will always produce great players, but it's the rate in which interest has died off so quickly that is alarming. Hopefully their world cup can reignite some interest there as the one thing union will always have over league is the international game.

Your point about kiwis having more to do on the weekend may be true, but again the NZ warriors attendances have sky rocketed this year in the NRL, in stark contrast to the awful crowds the blues are getting.

doctor_grey wrote:I saw this in The Guardian:  
South African teams are happy post-divorce but has Super Rugby lost its bite?
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2023/may/19/south-african-teams-are-happy-post-divorce-but-has-super-rugby-lost-its-bite

It is an interesting article but doesn't go too deep to answer the question, but the point for me is this is being discussed openly.  John Plumtree is quoted as saying the big loss is the physicality of the SA teams is missing.  I think we all had talked this when the divorce was announced.  

I wonder how the loss of regular club games against the SA and Argentina club teams will impact he Wallabies and All Blacks. For now they still play the Boks.   But that is still only a handful of games each year.  Can't think that makes up for the loss of the regular club games.  Reasonable?

The South Africans have definitely the biggest men playing rugby in the world. The loss of income would also be a serious concern. From memory one of the main gripes of the SARU was that they brought in 50%+ of to revenue because of their viewing figures (maybe more?) but got only 30% ish of the profits.

In terms of popularity fewer NZ fans show up to watch the Australian teams play their teams than used to attend to watch football the SA teams but this is just my observation as a dip in and out fan looking at a to. No stats to back it up.

For these three reasons I think that SA sides leaving have weakened super rugby.

For me the two things Super Rugby Pacific has lost is the key Union areas and the balance.

SA teams made the breakdown a contest, thought the maul was important and also scrum. Oz and NZ often want it to be league. Without the SA teams they can now have a more running focused competition and police the breakdown accordingly. When it comes to tests it's hurting then. SA teams were the only thing to bring variety and that us now gone. SA teams have talked about how the URC it so different every week to how teams play.

Like Ireland and Wales in Celtic/Pro12 there needs to be neutral party. We SA gone its now NZ v OZ in every decision so its constantly fighting. All the refs are either OZ or NZ so lots of problems. When you take away an enemy you need someone else to be the enemy.

“When you take away an enemy you need someone else to be the enemy”,
That’s really grim Brendan. It is possible for different organisations to work well together.

What did you mean about Ireland and Wales in the Celtic league! Were our unions always fighting? I missed that entirely.

SRP is still fairly new. Maybe it will grow in popularity.

Intotouch wrote:“When you take away an enemy you need someone else to be the enemy”,
That’s really grim Brendan. It is possible for different organisations to work well together.

What did you mean about Ireland and Wales in the Celtic league! Were our unions always fighting? I missed that entirely.

SRP is still fairly new. Maybe it will grow in popularity.

This may sound crazy as expanding is what fans thought hurt the original comp... but it needs to expand or at least change format. The regular season just seems pointless with 8 out of 12 teams making the playoffs. I know there is talk of the Japanese coming on board and to me that can't come soon enough. I suspect Japanese clubs will attract massive crowds for the the visit of NZ teams.

Japan are the obvious choice to add teams but keep with with Pacific brand. Japan will bring much needed finance and market size to the competition.

I was surprised to see it is actually still quite a lengthy flight to Japan from Aus (10 hours ish) even though they're fairly well aligned in time zones. When you have to fly over the equator it ends up a long flight!

2 incredibly one sided QFs and 2 high intensity high entertainment games.

If you're not currently watching Brumbies v Hurricanes you should be!

I thought that was a try. I thought I saw a grounding. But maybe my morning coffee needs to kick in....