Did Anyone Start a Premiership Round 14 Thread?

[doctor_grey]

Did Anyone Start a Premiership Round 14 Thread? I'm asking because I can't see one anywhere.

For what it's worth I think Saints are playing somebody today:

Weather forecast: 8c, clear
Live television coverage: TNT Sports
Referee: Luke Pearce
Assistant referees: Joe James and Andrew Jackson
No.4: James Clarke
TMO: Ian Tempest

Saints: Ramm; Freeman, Odendaal, Dingwall; Sleightholme, F Smith, James; Iyogun, Langdon, Davison; Moon, Coles; Lawes (c), Pearson, Augustus.
Replacements: S Matavesi, A Waller, Prowse, Mayanavanua, Ludlam, Graham, McParland, Litchfield.

Saracens: Daly; Maitland, Cinti, Tompkins, Lewington; Farrell (c), van Zyl; M Vunipola, George, Riccioni; McFarland, Isiekwe; Gonzalez, Christie, B Vunipola.
Replacements: Dan, Mawi, Judge, Tizard, Willis, Earl, Simpson, Goode.

Not considered for Saints selection: Callum Braley, George Furbank, Paul Hill, Rory Hutchinson, Elliot Millar Mills, Alex Mitchell.
Most recent meeting: Saturday, December 2, 2023: Saracens 12 Saints 18 (Gallagher Premiership)

[Geordie]

Decent battle at KP..  

Inefficient with the ball in the tigers 22. We've had a lot of time there aswell.

Tigers big carriers are having an effect.

Brantingham having a good game...he'll be a miss,  and Redshaw will not be here long either.

[Geordie]

Slightholme...what a player.

How has Alex Coles played?

[Geordie]

Saracens are getting a potentially fantastic prop in Brantingham..he played so well today

[Geordie]

Jeez...90 mins and tigers down to 12 men

[formerly known as Sam]

Jeez...90 mins and tigers down to 12 men

Dickson doesn't seem to have a clue what's happening at the scrum. Brantingham playing him like a fiddle.

It's been a dreadful game.

[formerly known as Sam]

How the hell was that a Falcons scrum at the pen?

[Geordie]

Dickson is the worst ref in rhe prem....

[formerly known as Sam]

Legitimate turnover can't be allowed, Dickson's had a row with his missus and doesn't want to go home.

[doctor_grey]

Well, well, well. Last week at Bristol, Saints game meal was the the local suckateria. Today, a whole new kettle of fish. Sarries last two scores were deep in garbaage time, so Saints did pretty well. And did that without Alex Mitchell, George Furbank, Rory Hutchinson, and Elliot Millar Mills. Sarries were without Itoje. I thought Sleightholme, Lawes, Langdon, and Dingwall (huge defensive shift) were terrific. Fin was man of the match. First place for another couple of weeks...

[Rugby Fan]

So much injury time, the Leicester player sin-binned on 83 minutes came back on.

[Geordie]

I need to go home but I ain't leaving.

[doctor_grey]

What's this 100 minutes???????

[Geordie]

Bugger...well sorry but we lost that rather than tigers winning.

Lineout shambles
Inefficiency in the tigers 22....
And lack of heavy duty carriers like Tigers have.

Diamonds shopping list will be a hooker who can throw and some juggernaut carriers.

[Rugby Fan]

Billy Vunipola kick:

https://twitter.com/premrugby/status/1773807923392569821

[Heaf]

Luke Pearce trying to speed things up tonight which is no bad thing - but a bit hasty to award a try which looked short and held-up ....

[Rugby Fan]

Luke Pearce trying to speed things up tonight which is no bad thing - but a bit hasty to award a try which looked short and held-up ....

From the camera view from behind the touchline, it looked short. Still, Pearce was in a better position than the camera to see if the ball was on the line, and awarded it straight away. He was initially only concerned about whether the ball had gone forward. He then seemed to want the TMO to check the grounding, which makes it unclear what he saw.

https://twitter.com/rugbyontnt/status/1773803564462125322

Ramm seemed to want to celebrate straight away, though that could have been kidology if he realized he wouldn't be able to wrestle it down.

[doctor_grey]

When I watched the game, I thought it appeared short on tv.  But Pearce gave the try right away so he must have been confident with what he saw.  The good thing is that it probably turned out not to have an impact on the game.

Saints gave up two tries from charge downs, the first from a terrible job from Tom James, the scrum half. Just a gimmee. Overall, Saints did a nice job except, more or less, the second quarter. Some great defensive work as well. I think this is one of Saints better wins in a while.

[Heaf]

Yep Saints good for the win but the more I see the replays the more it looks not only short but an arm underneath it as well - think Pearce got carried away with the great run that deserved a try so just awarded it anyway

[formerly known as Sam]

Bugger...well sorry but we lost that rather than tigers winning.  

Lineout shambles
Inefficiency in the tigers 22....
And lack of heavy duty carriers like Tigers have.

Diamonds shopping list will be a hooker who can throw and some  juggernaut carriers.

Ha, I think both sides will be bemoaning inefficiency in the others 22. There was a couple of chances Tigers fluffed that I thought were heading towards tries. Pollard's seriously under hit crossfield kick in the first half a prime example. I'm still unsure how Chick got away with joining the maul at the back of the Tigers side and ripping the ball away at the end of the first half, stone wall pen try.

Tigers have some good carries but we use them poorly. Most the time it's to telegraphed who's carrying and the interplay is about as crisp as a used teabag. Weise running at soft shoulders instead of double tackles would make a huge difference.

[WELL-PAST-IT]

I have just watched the highlights of the Saints vs Sarries game, Saints looked electric all over, but my biggest question is when you see Ollie Sleightholme doing what he did yesterday, and last week and a lot of other weeks, why is he not in at least the England larger training squad. Who else can do the same as him in the premiership.

Need to see the whole game to comment fully, but he just looked outstanding in the snippets I saw.

[doctor_grey]

I have just watched the highlights of the Saints vs Sarries game, Saints looked electric all over, but my biggest question is when you see Ollie Sleightholme doing what he did yesterday, and last week and a lot of other weeks, why is he not in at least the England larger training squad. Who else can do the same as him in the premiership.

Need to see the whole game to comment fully, but he just looked outstanding in the snippets I saw.

Was a great game!

Ollie truly was excellent, mate.  I think he is underestimated by many.  He is quick, has good ball skills, and reads plays extremely well.  I think his power is underestimated.  He hits rucks hard, and saved possession a few times by driving off the evil Saracens who dared to try and take our ball away.  

By the way, when you watch you will love the 18-20 phases of Saracens attack later in the 2nd half, mostly on or near the Saints line.  Saints had that iron clad defense from 10 years ago and held the evil-dooers out.  The last two Saracens tries were in ultra-garbaage time.

[tigertattie]

Quins running riot. Bath looking honking

[Heaf]

If I were a Bath fan I'd be pretty fed up about their 3rd try though - came from a pen against Bath after Quins knocked it on ...

[tigertattie]

If I were a Bath fan I'd be pretty fed up about their 3rd try though - came from a pen against Bath after Quins knocked it on ...

Yup but won’t change the result. Quins have just bullied bath all afternoon. Officiating wouldn’t change this result

[Heaf]

Nearly did in the end ... also on another board there's some discussion about a Quins player coming back 3 mins early from a YC?

[Heaf]

Nearly did in the end ...  also on another board there's some discussion about a Quins player coming back 3 mins early from a YC?

They have a point - just watching the replay now and he's back about 3-4 mins early - how the hell does that happen? - Quins cheating somehow or the 4th official being useless, or both?

[doctor_grey]

Nearly did in the end ...  also on another board there's some discussion about a Quins player coming back 3 mins early from a YC?

They have a point - just watching the replay now and he's back about 3-4 mins early - how the hell does that happen? - Quins cheating somehow or the 4th official being useless, or both?

I didn't watch the game.  Was that yellow card Herbst or Lynagh?  I want to go back and watch, but are also lazy.  It's a holiday, after all.

p.s. Quins have never, ever cheated. Just sayin'.

[Heaf]

Nearly did in the end ...  also on another board there's some discussion about a Quins player coming back 3 mins early from a YC?

They have a point - just watching the replay now and he's back about 3-4 mins early - how the hell does that happen? - Quins cheating somehow or the 4th official being useless, or both?

I didn't watch the game.  Was that yellow card Herbst or Lynagh?  I want to go back and watch, but are also lazy.  It's a holiday, after all.

p.s. Quins have never, ever cheated.  Just sayin'.  

Herbst - went off on about 64 mins I think and was back on the pitch defending by 70 mins ...

[Geordie]

I have just watched the highlights of the Saints vs Sarries game, Saints looked electric all over, but my biggest question is when you see Ollie Sleightholme doing what he did yesterday, and last week and a lot of other weeks, why is he not in at least the England larger training squad. Who else can do the same as him in the premiership.

Need to see the whole game to comment fully, but he just looked outstanding in the snippets I saw.

Was a great game!

Ollie truly was excellent, mate.  I think he is underestimated by many.  He is quick, has good ball skills, and reads plays extremely well.  I think his power is underestimated.  He hits rucks hard, and saved possession a few times by driving off the evil Saracens who dared to try and take our ball away.   .

I've said for Donkeys he's a class act..but he has had some injury issues. He seems to be over them and showing what he is about. He raw physicality and pace is outstanding. He'd be in my England squad no doubt

[Geordie]

Bugger...well sorry but we lost that rather than tigers winning.  

Lineout shambles
Inefficiency in the tigers 22....
And lack of heavy duty carriers like Tigers have.

Diamonds shopping list will be a hooker who can throw and some  juggernaut carriers.

Ha, I think both sides will be bemoaning inefficiency in the others 22. There was a couple of chances Tigers fluffed that I thought were heading towards tries. Pollard's seriously under hit crossfield kick in the first half a prime example. I'm still unsure how Chick got away with joining the maul at the back of the Tigers side and ripping the ball away at the end of the first half, stone wall pen try.

Tigers have some good carries but we use them poorly. Most the time it's to telegraphed who's carrying and the interplay is about as crisp as a used teabag. Weise running at soft shoulders instead of double tackles would make a huge difference.

Well rhat will cancel out the pen try we should have had after scrum after scrum penalty in the neverending overtime and from Stewards yellow card.  

In two games Diamond has changed/improved us already....however the pressure is on Blamire and Connon now. Its unforgivable to not score against 12 men...and how many lineouts went off...Diamond won't like that.

Saracens will probably be setting up Ben Redshaw already....

[Rugby Fan]

Telegraph says Bath will make an official complaint over Hebst returning to the pitch too early. They speculate Quins could be punished if they were at fault. Unless they put him on the pitch without the officals knowing, its hard to see how they can be blamed.

It'll be interesting to find out how the sin ban is managed. Whether officials actively watch the countdown, then signal player can return, or if it's up to the team to ask permission to return, and the officials give approval.

[formerly known as Sam]

Bugger...well sorry but we lost that rather than tigers winning.  

Lineout shambles
Inefficiency in the tigers 22....
And lack of heavy duty carriers like Tigers have.

Diamonds shopping list will be a hooker who can throw and some  juggernaut carriers.

Ha, I think both sides will be bemoaning inefficiency in the others 22. There was a couple of chances Tigers fluffed that I thought were heading towards tries. Pollard's seriously under hit crossfield kick in the first half a prime example. I'm still unsure how Chick got away with joining the maul at the back of the Tigers side and ripping the ball away at the end of the first half, stone wall pen try.

Tigers have some good carries but we use them poorly. Most the time it's to telegraphed who's carrying and the interplay is about as crisp as a used teabag. Weise running at soft shoulders instead of double tackles would make a huge difference.

Well rhat will cancel out the pen try we should have had after scrum after scrum penalty in the neverending overtime and from Stewards yellow card.  

In two games Diamond has changed/improved us already....however the pressure is on Blamire and Connon now. Its unforgivable to not score against 12 men...and how many lineouts went off...Diamond won't like that.

Saracens will probably be setting up Ben Redshaw already....

That's not how penalty tries work. There was no certainty you would score a try from the scrum on the 22, particularly as Brantingham likes to go forward then spin the scrum to milk the penalty (kind of move you see from an experienced prop).

Redshaw looked very good indeed. All the hype appears justified. Given his all round skillset he'd fit in very well at Sarries but hopefully you'll keep hold of him for a little while yet. If that game is indicative of how they are playing he'll get an England cap before Radwan gets another.

Diamond is very good at getting the work rate and intensity of a team up. He's an underrated man manager. What he may need is for Falcons to find a little budget for some experienced assistant coaches to help him. He's not an attack coach despite his bag of tricks in other areas.

[Poorfour]

Telegraph says Bath will make an official complaint over Hebst returning to the pitch too early. They speculate Quins could be punished if they were at fault. Unless they put him on the pitch without the officals knowing, its hard to see how they can be blamed.

It'll be interesting to find out how the sin ban is managed. Whether officials actively watch the countdown, then signal player can return, or if it's up to the team to ask permission to return, and the officials give approval.

I’ve watched enough players bouncing up and down on the touchline waiting to get back on to know that it’s entirely in the control of the 4th official. You quite often see a card period tick down to zero and the official hold back the returning player until the game has definitely stopped.

I haven’t seen the game (was at the Red Roses match), but it’s hard to see how Quins could be retroactively penalised for a decision that rests with the officials. It would be like chalking off a try for a clear but missed forward pass after the game has concluded. (And if we’re going to allow that, I’ve got a list that I’d like to submit for consideration…)

[formerly known as Sam]

Telegraph says Bath will make an official complaint over Hebst returning to the pitch too early. They speculate Quins could be punished if they were at fault. Unless they put him on the pitch without the officals knowing, its hard to see how they can be blamed.

It'll be interesting to find out how the sin ban is managed. Whether officials actively watch the countdown, then signal player can return, or if it's up to the team to ask permission to return, and the officials give approval.

I’ve watched enough players bouncing up and down on the touchline waiting to get back on to know that it’s entirely in the control of the 4th official. You quite often see a card period tick down to zero and the official hold back the returning player until the game has definitely stopped.

I haven’t seen the game (was at the Red Roses match), but it’s hard to see how Quins could be retroactively penalised for a decision that rests with the officials. It would be like chalking off a try for a clear but missed forward pass after the game has concluded. (And if we’re going to allow that, I’ve got a list that I’d like to submit for consideration…)

Unless the player was sent back on without fourth official permission I can't see Quins getting any punishment.

Bath are right to be annoyed but I'm not sure it's the fault of Quins.

[lostinwales]

It's rugby - everything is OK as long as it doesn't involve deliberate injury and as long as the referee and other officials are happy.

[WELL-PAST-IT]

I have just watched the highlights of the Saints vs Sarries game, Saints looked electric all over, but my biggest question is when you see Ollie Sleightholme doing what he did yesterday, and last week and a lot of other weeks, why is he not in at least the England larger training squad. Who else can do the same as him in the premiership.

Need to see the whole game to comment fully, but he just looked outstanding in the snippets I saw.

Was a great game!

Ollie truly was excellent, mate.  I think he is underestimated by many.  He is quick, has good ball skills, and reads plays extremely well.  I think his power is underestimated.  He hits rucks hard, and saved possession a few times by driving off the evil Saracens who dared to try and take our ball away.  

By the way, when you watch you will love the 18-20 phases of Saracens attack later in the 2nd half, mostly on or near the Saints line.  Saints had that iron clad defense from 10 years ago and held the evil-dooers out.  The last two Saracens tries were in ultra-garbaage time.

There were some very strange decisions by the ref; as I remember from many years ago, it takes three players to form a ruck, an if a ruck is not formed there is no offside. So how can a tackled player and the tackler who are not actually bound to each other anyway form a ruck and Fin Smith be offside when he steps up and takes the ball lying a metre or so behind the tackled player and as it was the only offence he "committed" why is it a yellow card, it didn't obviously prevent a try being scored

Is it right that when the ref shouts "play it", that a player can break off before the ball is removed from the ruck in order to affect a charge down, thus making the 9, wait a couple more seconds. Surely the first offence is what matters as it was responsible for the second, it should be a penalty.

Both Sarries late tries came from a lack of cover across the backs, normally provided by the 10 who was binned for not doing anything illegal.

I thought Dingwall gave a masterclass as well, it is interesting that Saints play him at 12 especially in defence and Odendaal at 13, despite Odendaal being 10 kgs heavier. Fin Smith gave Farrell a lesson in running a game, Farrell just made too many errors and bad decisions.

The Munster game is going to be interesting next week

[Heaf]

RFU have fessed-up for the appalling balls-up ...

"The RFU Professional Game Match Officials Team (PGMOT) acknowledge and apologise for an error during the Gallagher Premiership match between Harlequins v Bath where a yellow card sanction resulted in Irné Herbst returning to the pitch approximately three minutes too soon.

We would like to apologise to both teams for this mistake. As is the usual process the PGMOT will review all games to ensure continued improvement and learnings.

The result of the match remains final."

Not sure why they are apologising to Quins too ...

[Heaf]

I have just watched the highlights of the Saints vs Sarries game, Saints looked electric all over, but my biggest question is when you see Ollie Sleightholme doing what he did yesterday, and last week and a lot of other weeks, why is he not in at least the England larger training squad. Who else can do the same as him in the premiership.

Need to see the whole game to comment fully, but he just looked outstanding in the snippets I saw.

Was a great game!

Ollie truly was excellent, mate.  I think he is underestimated by many.  He is quick, has good ball skills, and reads plays extremely well.  I think his power is underestimated.  He hits rucks hard, and saved possession a few times by driving off the evil Saracens who dared to try and take our ball away.  

By the way, when you watch you will love the 18-20 phases of Saracens attack later in the 2nd half, mostly on or near the Saints line.  Saints had that iron clad defense from 10 years ago and held the evil-dooers out.  The last two Saracens tries were in ultra-garbaage time.

There were some very strange decisions by the ref; as I remember from many years ago, it takes three players to form a ruck, an if a ruck is not formed there is no offside. So how can a tackled player and the tackler who are not actually bound to each other anyway form a ruck and Fin Smith be offside when he steps up and takes the ball lying a metre or so behind the tackled player and as it was the only offence he "committed" why is it a yellow card, it didn't obviously prevent a try being scored

Is it right that when the ref shouts "play it", that a player can break off before the ball is removed from the ruck in order to affect a charge down, thus making the 9, wait a couple more seconds. Surely the first offence is what matters as it was responsible for the second, it should be a penalty.

Both Sarries late tries came from a lack of cover across the backs, normally provided by the 10 who was binned for not doing anything illegal.

I thought Dingwall gave a masterclass as well, it is interesting that Saints play him at 12 especially in defence and Odendaal at 13, despite Odendaal being 10 kgs heavier. Fin Smith gave Farrell a lesson in running a game, Farrell just made too many errors and bad decisions.

The Munster game is going to be interesting next week

Pretty sure they changed the ruck laws after the England v Italy debacle a few years back - but you do still need a player over the ball to form a ruck. However I believe there is also a 1m around the tackle law which means you have to come in through the gate?

[WELL-PAST-IT]

Sale vs Chiefs.

The ref has got blue eyes. Hodge tries to catch an interception, both hands high above his head, it just touches his fingertips on both hands. Result yellow card. I thought he was one sided before that but now I know he has got a big wedge on Sale.

[Heaf]

It is hard to see how Manu didn't get a yellow for an obvious deliberate knock-on preventing a line-break whereas Hodge looked like a genuine attempt with both hands ... officiating seems to be getting worse every weekend.

[Welshmushroom]

Looks like this Sale vs Exeter game is over already. Cant see Exeter coming back from this.

[Heaf]

I thought the same in the Quins match yesterday but they nearly ended up throwing away a 37 point lead ... saved by the 4th official not being able to tell the time ...

[Welshmushroom]

Na I would say its over now

[mountain man]

It is hard to see how Manu didn't get a yellow for an obvious deliberate knock-on preventing a line-break whereas Hodge looked like a genuine attempt with both hands ... officiating seems to be getting worse every weekend.

Yep that was poor from officials. Hodge got two hands to it in what looked like genuine attempt to catch. Manu one handed slap down.

[mikey_dragon]

Looks like Sale pumped Exeter, not sure what happened there. It looks good for Sale though, who travel to Ospreys in the challenge cup next weekend.

[doctor_grey]

Fascinating that seven teams have the exact same win-loss record at 8 win, 6 losses. That is really strange at this point in the season. The only teams which are not included in that group are Saints (10-4), Gloucester (4-10), and Newcastle.

[Sponsored content]