URC Play Offs

First topic message reminder :

It's play off time

QUARTER-FINALS

Munster 23 v Ospreys 7
Vodacom Bulls 30 v Benetton 23
Leinster 43 v Ulster 20
Glasgow Warriors 27 v DHL Stormers 10


SEMI-FINALS

Vodacom Bulls 25 v Leinster 20
Munster 10 v Glasgow Warriors 17

URC GRAND FINAL

Saturday 22nd June 2024
Vodacom Bulls v Glasgow Warriors
Loftus Versfeld, Pretoria.
17:00 UK/Ireland (18:00 SA)
Live on- RTE (Ireland), Premier Sports (UK & Ireland), SuperSport (South Africa), Sky Italia (Italy), Flo Rugby (USA) and URC.tv

Leinster have tried to cost through Key URC rounds in the last two years and have paid the price.



They need to realise this is now a tough league and they need to scrap big time for results

Munster off it today. To many errors. Disappointing. Was hoping for an all Ireland final, (been hoping that for Roscommon for so long )

Fair play to Glasgow though. Some decent tries. Played well.

Was out today with my Rugby club today and didn't see any of the Rugby on tv.  Have to admit I am a bit surprised at the scores.  I expected at least one of the Irish teams to get through.  On the other hand, perhaps this is better overall for the competition?

doctor_grey wrote:Was out today with my Rugby club today and didn't see any of the Rugby on tv.  Have to admit I am a bit surprised at the scores.  I expected at least one of the Irish teams to get through.  On the other hand, perhaps this is better overall for the competition?

First year having an all SA final in SA was the best result for the League. As really got buy in from SA fans from the start, as they didnt really know who half the teams were, and they really brought into the URC then.

2nd year SA host final and Munster winning string of away games was a great result for the league. As SA hosted another final and give home that away teams can cause upsets and it was a big boost for Munster.

3rd year once Ulster were out I thought the best result would be Leinster winning it, as having the best team in it never reachingv
the final was a bad look. But 3 URC finals all in SA is still a good result for the competition. Stormers and Bulls are getting big crowds back and I'm sure they love the URC now and happy with the move.

3 finals all in SA, 4 of the 6 finalists SA teams 1 Irish and 1 Scottish, isnt great reading for Irish or NH fans, though Irish sides have finished top of the league every season, so isnt all one way, but as a competition its been great, the gap between HCup and domestic league has never been closer.

Strange to see the Leinster or Irish fans on X, complaining about a potential charge in the ruck. Ignoring the Leinster hands on the floor jackal first obviously.

I suppose you can’t mention refs, when you’ve been chirping about blaming refs all season. Yet X suggests isn’t so black and white always.

IRFU has to look at how they’re spending their money now. Pump money into their teams and not one finalist? Wow.

RiscaGame wrote:Strange to see the Leinster or Irish fans on X, complaining about a potential charge in the ruck. Ignoring the Leinster hands on the floor jackal first obviously.

I suppose you can’t mention refs, when you’ve been chirping about blaming refs all season. Yet X suggests isn’t so black and white always.

IRFU has to look at how they’re spending their money now. Pump money into their teams and not one finalist? Wow.

Any team that loses a close game and a section of their fans will blame the referee. Welsh teams lose more games so get to blame the ref more often. Bulls fans were blaming the ref when behind durning the game. Its an easy target for frustrations, esp when at even ruck 2 or 3 pens could be given, its on how the ref decides to let play flow.

Overall IRFU can be pretty happy, teams finished 1st 3rd 6th and 11th with 2 semi finalists.

I do wonder if the TMO or a 4th ref should be brought in to specifically look at the offside rule. If we want to see more open rugby and tries we cant have teams closing others down by standing offside to close the gaps.....

My personal view would be to bring in a 4th ref who just focuses on that......would leave the main ref to worry about the other aspects of the game........Or maybe a dedicated 2nd TMO based ref to watch on it on the video feeds.

I'm guessing there probably are not enough camera angles to allow a 2nd TMO for that though

Kingshu wrote:

RiscaGame wrote:Strange to see the Leinster or Irish fans on X, complaining about a potential charge in the ruck. Ignoring the Leinster hands on the floor jackal first obviously.

I suppose you can’t mention refs, when you’ve been chirping about blaming refs all season. Yet X suggests isn’t so black and white always.

IRFU has to look at how they’re spending their money now. Pump money into their teams and not one finalist? Wow.

Any team that loses a close game and a section of their fans will blame the referee. Welsh teams lose more games so get to blame the ref more often. Bulls fans were blaming the ref when behind durning the game. Its an easy target for frustrations, esp when at even ruck 2 or 3 pens could be given, its on how the ref decides to let play flow.

Overall IRFU can be pretty happy, teams finished 1st 3rd 6th and 11th with 2 semi finalists.

As a neutral watching it I thought Leinster got more than their fare share of "luck". Essentially they only gave away 4 penalties the entire game. I'd say the ref basically didn't call Leinster offside the entire match which even if you want to call it "clever" are still offences they should have got pinged for. I didnt think the Ref had a great game in that one.

In the other game the Italian ref did a really good job - couple of odd calls here and there but did a fairly even job for both sides. He actually impressed me.

Again I don't see how it's not a choke from a Leinster perspective, and being their No.1 fan I'm very disappointed. I think the Irish are doing well in growing the game and producing pro players, but perhaps the other 3 provinces could do with some of that special treatment Leinster have gotten in the past. I think Loughman and Jager should be in the Irish team and arguably, should succeed Furlong until a replacement is sought. That might cause Ireland to lose some of their dominance for a season or two.

For me the Leinster's failure yesterday was the same as the euro cup. If you have Ross at ten you need to win the breakdown because that's when he can play his game.
If there not on top and your ball is slow he's not the type of ten who can impose himself on the game. That's not his fault that's just how he plays. But this has been know for a while so it's on the coaches for me.
Munster not watch that game yet but the general view is Glasgow out fought them, and forced them I to mistakes.

One other point but twitter/x is absolutely the worst place to get any sensible view on anything at all. The loudest idiots get the most attention but very rarely have any substance.

I actually think Leinster need a running threat at 10 with a good passing game. I dont think Ross Byrne checks those boxes as a 10 at all.

Problem at the moment there are not to many running 10's in the game and I can't think of any Irish players that check that box......

They defo either need to go Frawley or Harry there next season. Ross looks like a mediocre player. It's not that he is bad but he is very predictable, easy to read and offers no running threat. Given the sheer quality of centres Leinster have they need someone at 10 with the creativity to really get the best out of their centres.

RiscaGame wrote:Strange to see the Leinster or Irish fans on X, complaining about a potential charge in the ruck. Ignoring the Leinster hands on the floor jackal first obviously.

I suppose you can’t mention refs, when you’ve been chirping about blaming refs all season. Yet X suggests isn’t so black and white always.

IRFU has to look at how they’re spending their money now. Pump money into their teams and not one finalist? Wow.

Why do people think X is any sort of representation of any group of fans? I haven't seen any ref blaming on actual fan sites. Just fans rightfully ripping into the coaching team and players.

The fans have been moaning about Byrne for a while. He’s a good player but he isn’t as good as Sexton. Frawley is also good but doesn’t play at 10 often enough. The youngster Prendergast looks promising and could overtake them, I think Leinster are trying to manage him in slowly though.

Happy fot the Bills win, they were heavily motivated for the match. Hopefully they can pull off the win in the final. Their biggest concern is injury to willie le Roux, I think without him their attacking prowess will be nullified.

As for Leinster, the Crusaders who are the most successful team in the history of Super Rugby went through a drought for eight seasons. There will be an adjustment period with Sexton gone, and it won't happen immediately.

From my perspective it looks like their pack physicality/intensity is the biggest stumbling block to their failure to win titles.

Leinster always have a history of using like 60 players in a league season and using a few rounds in the URC as development games to help bring youth through.

But given how the URC has now changed I just don't think that will be viable all that often if you intend on winning silverware. They probably can still find some game time for the most promising youngsters but I don't think they will be able to develop them quite the same way as they did before.

I actually think that might work out in Ireland's favor if they can move youngsters to other provinces. Might take a few seasons though before Youngsters realize the change above and actually leave Leinster which at the moment none of them want to.

Welshmushroom wrote:Leinster always have a history of using like 60 players in a league season and using a few rounds in the URC as development games to help bring youth through.

But given how the URC has now changed I just don't think that will be viable all that often if you intend on winning silverware.  They probably can still find some game time for the most promising youngsters but I don't think they will be able to develop them quite the same way as they did before.

I actually think that might work out in Ireland's favor if they can move youngsters to other provinces.  Might take a few seasons though before Youngsters realize the change above and actually leave Leinster which at the moment none of them want to.

Leinster have to rotate due to the amount of games in the season as the squad is stacked with internationals, that is never going to change, unless players stop getting selected with Ireland.
Also players just don't want to leave Leinster, I don't know why and the other provinces really need to look at themselves here and ask why is our environment not attractive enough to move to.

Why don't they want to leave?
Connaught are seen as a step down.
Ulster are no so attractive because the tax breaks?

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Welshmushroom wrote:Leinster always have a history of using like 60 players in a league season and using a few rounds in the URC as development games to help bring youth through.

But given how the URC has now changed I just don't think that will be viable all that often if you intend on winning silverware.  They probably can still find some game time for the most promising youngsters but I don't think they will be able to develop them quite the same way as they did before.

I actually think that might work out in Ireland's favor if they can move youngsters to other provinces.  Might take a few seasons though before Youngsters realize the change above and actually leave Leinster which at the moment none of them want to.

Leinster have to rotate due to the amount of games in the season as the squad is stacked with internationals, that is never going to change, unless players stop getting selected with Ireland.
Also players just don't want to leave Leinster, I don't know why and the other provinces really need to look at themselves here and ask why is our environment not attractive enough to move to.

Because they cannot calim back 40% of tax paid on the time they are playing for Ulster, Its means moving is effectively taking a pay cut, that could be worth hundreds of thousands or more over a career.

Better to silit on bench in Leinster and look after that nest egg.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Welshmushroom wrote:Leinster always have a history of using like 60 players in a league season and using a few rounds in the URC as development games to help bring youth through.

But given how the URC has now changed I just don't think that will be viable all that often if you intend on winning silverware.  They probably can still find some game time for the most promising youngsters but I don't think they will be able to develop them quite the same way as they did before.

I actually think that might work out in Ireland's favor if they can move youngsters to other provinces.  Might take a few seasons though before Youngsters realize the change above and actually leave Leinster which at the moment none of them want to.

Leinster have to rotate due to the amount of games in the season as the squad is stacked with internationals, that is never going to change, unless players stop getting selected with Ireland.
Also players just don't want to leave Leinster, I don't know why and the other provinces really need to look at themselves here and ask why is our environment not attractive enough to move to.

Yes but part of the issue since the URC is now with less games than before Leinster can't field as many youngsters and they did when the season was longer. So chances to get a lot of mins is very low now compared to the Pre URC era.

I do think the reduced matches and increased competition, assuming Leinster will still target silverware may cause an issue with how academy players get brought through. I wouldn't be surprised to see Leinster loaning youngster out for single seasons in a couple of years when the penny drops.

Kingshu wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Welshmushroom wrote:Leinster always have a history of using like 60 players in a league season and using a few rounds in the URC as development games to help bring youth through.

But given how the URC has now changed I just don't think that will be viable all that often if you intend on winning silverware.  They probably can still find some game time for the most promising youngsters but I don't think they will be able to develop them quite the same way as they did before.

I actually think that might work out in Ireland's favor if they can move youngsters to other provinces.  Might take a few seasons though before Youngsters realize the change above and actually leave Leinster which at the moment none of them want to.

Leinster have to rotate due to the amount of games in the season as the squad is stacked with internationals, that is never going to change, unless players stop getting selected with Ireland.
Also players just don't want to leave Leinster, I don't know why and the other provinces really need to look at themselves here and ask why is our environment not attractive enough to move to.

 

Because they cannot calim back 40% of tax paid on the time they are playing for Ulster, Its means moving is effectively taking a pay cut, that could be worth hundreds of thousands or more over a career.

Better to silit on bench in Leinster and look after that nest egg.

So why did Jordi Murphy ask to move up north? Why don't they join Munster?

Think that only applies to Ulster. Connacht and Munster should also get the same tax breaks.

To be fair a lot of it I think has to do with Leinster being a winning side. I'm guessing it also helps their salary demands. If you look good in a excellent team you probably stand a higher chance of bigger wages than if you look average in a poorer side (not that I'm saying Munster, Ulster & Connacht are poor teams but in context of Leinster simply being better).

Possibly some of the thinking is if they can displace players in the starting 15 they know they probably have a better chance at international recognition as well.

Maybe it's just that they are locals, have family in dublin or a number of any other reasons.

Who knows

Jordi Murphy asked to move north because playing more 1st XV rugby was more important.
Regardless he was clearly the exception to the rule.

As to having a better chance with Ireland I simply don't buy that, especially after the recent announcement by Humphreys.

Also someone needs to explain that based on Farrells last squad selection (WC)
Deegan, Connors and Penny were behind Timoney, Coombes and Prendergast?

It's the money.


You will have to ask the Players why they don't go to Munster

I have lifted this from the sage that is Disco on the Glasgow Warriors Forum;

Fun fact - despite Glasgow only playing at Thomond Park 5 times in the last decade, Scott Cummings (292) has played more minutes at that venue than current Munster lock, RG Snyman (279).

Not sure what it means but it says it all.

geoff999rugby wrote:Jordi Murphy asked to move north because playing more 1st XV rugby was more important.
Regardless he was clearly the exception to the rule.

As to having a better chance with Ireland I simply don't buy that, especially after the recent announcement by Humphreys.

Also someone needs to explain that based on Farrells last squad selection (WC)
Deegan, Connors and Penny were behind Timoney, Coombes and Prendergast?

It's the money.


You will have to ask the Players why they don't go to Munster

It's an interesting one. You'd imagine there's a pay rise from going from squad player at Leinster to starter at Munster or Connacht especially if international caps also follow on. It's what, two and a bit hours from Limerick or Galway to Dublin. Bit far for a commute but as long as you've not got a family on tow you could probably split your time between the two.

geoff999rugby wrote:Jordi Murphy asked to move north because playing more 1st XV rugby was more important.
Regardless he was clearly the exception to the rule.

As to having a better chance with Ireland I simply don't buy that, especially after the recent announcement by Humphreys.

Also someone needs to explain that based on Farrells last squad selection (WC)
Deegan, Connors and Penny were behind Timoney, Coombes and Prendergast?

It's the money.


You will have to ask the Players why they don't go to Munster

Jordi played 27 matches in his last season with Leinster and was a regular in the Ireland squads. Perhaps he saw the lads coming behind him then?

formerly known as Sam wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:Jordi Murphy asked to move north because playing more 1st XV rugby was more important.
Regardless he was clearly the exception to the rule.

As to having a better chance with Ireland I simply don't buy that, especially after the recent announcement by Humphreys.

Also someone needs to explain that based on Farrells last squad selection (WC)
Deegan, Connors and Penny were behind Timoney, Coombes and Prendergast?

It's the money.


You will have to ask the Players why they don't go to Munster

It's an interesting one. You'd imagine there's a pay rise from going from squad player at Leinster to starter at Munster or Connacht especially if international caps also follow on. It's what, two and a bit hours from Limerick or Galway to Dublin. Bit far for a commute but as long as you've not got a family on tow you could probably split your time between the two.

Leinster have 9 central contracts (going up to 10) which are usually thier highest earners, that won't be paid for out of Leinsters budget. Essentially what another province can budget to pay its 1st XV players, Leinster can use to pay players 10 to 25. Given that Leinster would have a higher income anyway and a squad player at Leinster is likely to be earning more than a 1st XV player at another province.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:Jordi Murphy asked to move north because playing more 1st XV rugby was more important.
Regardless he was clearly the exception to the rule.

As to having a better chance with Ireland I simply don't buy that, especially after the recent announcement by Humphreys.

Also someone needs to explain that based on Farrells last squad selection (WC)
Deegan, Connors and Penny were behind Timoney, Coombes and Prendergast?

It's the money.


You will have to ask the Players why they don't go to Munster

Jordi played 27 matches in his last season with Leinster and was a regular in the Ireland squads. Perhaps he saw the lads coming behind him then?

Some quotes at the time below, its clear that Leinster had a BR logjam and even more players coming up as well and show that Murphy moved for gametime, and hence further his international opportunities.

"Injury and a stacked back-row have also not been conducive to game time.

The back-row has been competing with Sean O'Brien, Rhys Ruddock, Josh van der Flier, Dan Leavy, Jack Conan and Jamie Heaslip.

The move to Ulster to pursue more game time will likely see Murphy become a regular fixture in their XV. "

"with the array of backrow options at Leinster, Murphy's move will assuredly be endorsed by Joe Schmidt and demonstrates his desire to further his international career"

“Having considered my options at length, I realise that this represents a great opportunity for me to challenge for a position at Ulster and hopefully become a more regular feature in the national set-up."

"Jordi Murphy is understood to have signed a two-year contract with the northern province, which will be officially confirmed by the end of the week, and it is a move that makes sense on every level.

Even with Jamie Heaslip out of action, Leinster have six Irish back-rows on their books. It is impossible to keep them all happy. Throw Max Deegan into the mix, a certain international lying in wait, as is Caelan Doris and that's not to mention Josh Murphy who has already impressed for the senior team this season, and you begin to get a clear understanding of the logjam that currently exists at Leinster."

Which clarifies Murphy moved to guarantee game time.
It us important to note that it did not help him get back in the Ireland team not because he was at Ulster but because he didn't play well enough.
He was an outstanding player in decline.
He was steady rather than spectacular. Better than most who have played for Ulster this year but not as good as Timoney, McCann or indeed Izzy

geoff999rugby wrote:

So you reckon the 10 Leinster Central Contract players will be getting more thnan £4.5 million - wrong

IRFU central contracts range from 500k to 700k. So even if all are on the lowest (which they are obviously not), then those 10 players will cost around the same ballpark as the entire Welsh regional squads.

I do not expect an apology.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Leinster have to rotate due to the amount of games in the season as the squad is stacked with internationals.

Ah poor things.