Irish Provinces: Weak Backrows (Leinster aside)

Any other Irish fans worried that Munster, Ulster and Connacht lack the backrow to succeed at the highest levels. Stephen Ferris and David Wallace are both excellent players. Ferris is a walking injury and Wallace is into his mid thirties now. Outside of those the backrow pools at the provinces appear to be weak. A fully fit Connacht teams backrow is arguably not far off Munster or Ulster.

Leinster have so many backrows with the potential to succeed. Will IRFU mandate the talent get spread about? Do the provinces have sufficient backrows in their squads?

100% correct.

I'm just so gutted with Ulsters luck in the backrow. David Pollock had to retire, Roger Wilson left, Neil Best had an attitude problem and left, and Stephen Ferris and Neil McMillan are both falling off the radar due to injury.

I still wish we could put out a Ferris-Pollock-Wilson backrow. Our current backrow has some decent players, but no-one who is really top class without Ferris.

It is looking bleak and I think Leinsters depth has kind of masked the situation. People talk up Ferris, Wallace, Heaslip, Jennings, O'Brien. But I mean Leamy has lost his place to Donnacha Ryan and Faloon looks decent but seems to be kept out of Ulster due to him not being physical enough to look after Humphreys.

Do you think IRFU will start making sure Ruddock, McLaughlin etc move to other places to get more game time and strenghten them.

No I don't think there's a problem actually. Coughlan has really come through well and Donacha Ryan has had a great 2nd half to the seasoon.

Faloon struggled a bit at the end of the season but overall has been fantastic and his physicality will improve. Diak will be IQ next season and Chris Henry actually played his best rugby to date this year.

The lack of top 2nd rows is a bigger worry in my oppinion.

RE: second rows. It will be based upton having Ryan at Munster, Tuohy at Ulster and Connachts Browne (who I am sure will move to Leinster in the future).

Nagle and Toner will back them up.

I agree thta second row seems to be more of a problem. I've gotten to the stage that McLaughlin looks like a viable conversion option.

I also look at Ruddock and think, while short for a primary lineout option at international level, he definitely has the attributes to be the enforcer in any second row.

Thats not great Stag. I think we're much better resourced in the back row.

Also Wilson and Best are in England so they haven't disappeared. If we need them then they can still be selected.

roddersm wrote:Thats not great Stag. I think we're much better resourced in the back row.

Also Wilson and Best are in England so they haven't disappeared. If we need them then they can still be selected.

Best won't be. Its not Ireland that I am worried about. It is the provinces themselves.

OK sorry Stag fair enough but if it the provinces you are worried about then they have the capacity to recruit if they feel that it is a weekness.

They do of course Rodders. I think Leinsters players will give us sufficient depth at backrow. I am wondering whether our current crop of backrows at Connacht, Munster and Ulster are good enough to win at the levels we are aspiring.

I suspect Leinster fans dont see it as a problem but i agree with all you guys. Ruddocks signature will be keenly contested after next season with Ulster and Munster sure to be at the forefront.

Dominic Ryan i think has signed for at least 2 years?
McLaughlin i dont think will move. He seems fairly content at Leinster and was selected for the Heineken cup final after all.

Faloon did drop off a bit i have to say. He can look awesome at times. (against Biarritz at Ravers or Glasgow at firhill) but he has missed more tackles this year than i recall him missing in the first season. He can come good but needs slightly more bulk.

Realistically Ulsters NIQ spots in the future should be used from 1-9 an no further out so a lot will depend on who we get if Danielli/Wannenburg are let go and Pienaar leaves

Backrow recruitment is a requirement for Ulster - looking for an IQ player for next year now.

Next summer Ulster will be looking for a top class 6,7 and 9.
One will have to IQ.
If Ferris is ok no problem - get a 7 and a 9.
If he isn't then one will have to be IQ - hence talk of Ruddock etc
A certain RP is favourite for 9, if he will stay.
The need for a top class 6 and a top class 7 is why I am not convincedWannenburg will be offered a contract for 2012-13

Danielli will not be replaced as the NIQ slots will drop to 4 next year.

I have to say well though Wilson is playing I don''t think he is that special. The power of the Saints front five , plus Wood, give him the space to impose himself and show his undoubted rugby brain. Back at Ulster I am not convinced he would do any better than Henry. He only got 1 cap for a reason.
Faloon continues to be a not sure. Pollock looked a better all round player for me.

I am not worried re the 2nd row. Muller, Tuohy and Barker have done ok and Stevenson is a big improvement on Caldwell. Remember Tuohy was 2nd best to Stevenson at the Chiefs

geoff998rugby wrote:Backrow recruitment is a requirement for Ulster - looking for an IQ player for next year now.

Next summer Ulster will be looking for a top class 6,7 and 9.
One will have to IQ.
If Ferris is ok no problem - get a 7 and a 9.
If he isn't then one will have to be IQ - hence talk of Ruddock etc
A certain RP is favourite for 9, if he will stay.
The need for a top class 6 and a top class 7 is why I am not convincedWannenburg will be offered a contract for 2012-13

If that was actually the case would there be money for a top class 7? Im not sure how much Wannenburg is on and i suppose we will more than likely lose Danielli s contract as well. Dont get me wrong though i would be delighted to see RP line out in an Ulster shirt for as long as he wants to. Same with Muller

I actually think backrow is going to be one of the strongest aspects of the Connacht team next season. We're not losing any key players and we're bringing back George Naoupu. A backrow of Muldoon, O'Connor and Naoupu will be pretty strong, I'd be a lot more worried about other aspects of the team.

If Ireland weren't so strong in the backrow I'd have Johnny O'Connor going to the WC. He has had one of the best seasons I've seen in a Connacht shirt. John Muldoon was injured a lot of last year but hopefully he'll be well over his arm troubles for next year.

With Danielli and Wannenburg going the money would be there for a 7.
Also if Ruan does go then I would expect a 9 on less money which would further boost the back row coffers.
Muller is already commited to 2012-13

The ground being rebuilt by Stormont will be a huge boost to our finances in the coming years

Ulster have had three back rows retire early in their career in the last two years – Pollock, McCullough and Horua, and that’s after Best, Wilson and McMillan leaving. We’re only clawing back parity now. Faloon stalled this season after a very impressive start, but Henry was excellent in the last third of the season. Diack has blown hot and cold.

My real concern is that our two U20s back rows, Gallagher and Leckey, are studying in Dublin and Glasgow respectively, and I don’t know if their places in our academy are anything more than nominal. We need to start bringing them through. And there’s been no sign of Ali Birch, who I heard once or twice is better than Faloon. What’s the story with him?

I honestly think Ali Birch is too small - he makes Will ie look like a giant.

I agree get Gallagher and Leckey on board, sign 1/2 World Calss NIQ, poach a player from Leinster, cross fingers on 1F and we might be ok.

I'm not too worried with Munster. The big problem is that players like O'Donnell and O'Mahoney need more game time and a longer run in the side getting used to the intensity of rugby at this level.

Shane Buckley also looks a good player for the future.

The difference between Leinster and the rest is that they have Sean O'Brien. Explosive ball carriers are an essential part of the back row and with maybe both Ferris and Wallace having no more than a season left, Ulster and Munster need to find an understudy.

I'm not concerned about the rest of the backrow as all four provinces are full of high quality players there, but it's the dynamic carrier that is the focal point of attack and therefore is the key. I don't see any obvious replacements for that type of player at Leinster to farm out to the other provinces - maybe in time but not right now.

At Ulster I'd like to see Tuohy get more time in the backrow as he has the power and pace to be a good carrier option. With the arrival of Stevenson and still having Muller, Barker and McComb at lock, maybe another string would be good for him and Ulster?

If 1F appearance are sparse and we don't get a Leinster backrower up here then Tuohy will play quite a few games at 6 next year.

Not sure how I feel about that. He's never looked comfortable there.

I knew it was on the cards; with Ferris unavailable we'd have 5 locks and 5 backrows. One of the locks covering 6 makes sense.

Agreed thast is why we are looking for another backrower.

With 1F's unavailability and McCormish being no more than a cover player we only have
Diack, Henry, Wannenburg and Faloon - that simply is not enough

Agreed. It scares me. We are looking for another backrower- right now, for the coming season?

Yep. Concern about 1F means we see this as a priority.
I think Cronin is going to remain part time and effectively our 3rd TH behind Afoa and Fitzpatrick so I expect no movement there.
As for 10 I believe the decision has been made that Humphreys, Pienaer, Wallace, Jackson and McKinney adequately cover.

The backrow is the only place I expect a new player and even then only if we can persuade a Leinster boy to come north or discover someone with an Irish granny.
McMillan has been mentioned as a possible 2nd 7 but nothing concrete.

They may be a few development contracts turned into fall contracts but that is it.

Well I hope to hell we get somebody. We need another body. It's not inconceivable that we could pick up an injury, Ferris struggles to get back and suddenly Mike McComish is in our HC 22

fully fit connacht back row of muldoon-o'connor-naoupu is better than nearly every back row in ireland aside form leinster... and possibly leinster A (god thats depressing)

Not for me - they are still 4th best

kiwicraving wrote:fully fit connacht back row of muldoon-o'connor-naoupu is better than nearly every back row in ireland aside form leinster... and possibly leinster A (god thats depressing)

The 2009/2010 vintage was very good. But JOC has another year of mileage added on since then and isn't getting any younger. Muldoon was out injured for most of the year, and when he came back couldn't even win the No. 6 shirt back off Andrew Browne, and Naoupu... well he's been away in Japan for a year, so for all we know he's been sitting around eating chocolate for 12 months.

I was more disappointed with Diack than Faloon towards the end of the season. I was expecting big things from him but I detected he wasn't entirely happy at playing second fiddle to Wannenberg and to some extent, Henry.

I noticed that Ferris is now treadmilling. Any updates on his progress?

Wasn't Pedri one of the players (if not the top player) who topped the stats league in the Hcup group stages? I know he can move in and out but his carry and tackle count are pretty good, are they not?

I think Faloon fantastic last season. He's as important to us as Jennings is to Leinster imho.

Wannenberg had some cracking games and was a real inspired signing. His ball carrying is vital, especially with no ferris.

Was very disappointed with Diak who seemed a shadow off the player he has been. However Henry really surprised me, he really stepped up to the plate. I didn't rate him before as he's too small for 6 and 8 and too slow for 7 however he really upped his game.

Diack was probably our best player up until Christmas imo. Then he got injured and he wasnt really the same after. He offers something different to the others in that he has better hands than them all and is a better lineout option.

That being said i dont think he is nearly dynamic enough although i felt he showed that he could be last year