2024 Rugby Championship Thread

[RDW]

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2024 Rugby Championship Thread

[RDW]

The cross field kicks in that weather was madness, and they kept doing it.

The Wallabies were certainly lacking spark and looked very blunt. The backline is underpowered and lacking raw place - 19 year old Jorgenson certainly provided a lot of the latter!

[formerly known as Sam]

The cross field kicks in that weather was madness, and they kept doing it.

The Wallabies were certainly lacking spark and looked very blunt. The backline is underpowered and lacking raw place - 19 year old Jorgenson certainly provided a lot of the latter!

Bad conditions means hands to the outside is going to be tough. Not getting anywhere running into the Boks massive pack so why not go for the crossfield. Yeah it's a tough move but it beats just getting marmalised by the Boks forwards.

[mountain man]

NZ get their revenge by hammering Argentina 42-10 in second match.

[RDW]

The cross field kicks in that weather was madness, and they kept doing it.

The Wallabies were certainly lacking spark and looked very blunt. The backline is underpowered and lacking raw place - 19 year old Jorgenson certainly provided a lot of the latter!

Bad conditions means hands to the outside is going to be tough. Not getting anywhere running into the Boks massive pack so why not go for the crossfield. Yeah it's a tough move but it beats just getting marmalised by the Boks forwards.

Sure, but trying to implement a successful cross field in the same conditions was a long shot at best! Two of them led to turnovers that put the Wallabies in trouble.

It was just a bit desperate IMO.

[bsando]

The cross field kicks in that weather was madness, and they kept doing it.

The Wallabies were certainly lacking spark and looked very blunt. The backline is underpowered and lacking raw place - 19 year old Jorgenson certainly provided a lot of the latter!

Bad conditions means hands to the outside is going to be tough. Not getting anywhere running into the Boks massive pack so why not go for the crossfield. Yeah it's a tough move but it beats just getting marmalised by the Boks forwards.

I see what you’re saying but the Boks wingers are lethal and the kicks were not accurate enough. Undoubtedly the wallabies had to try something but they could have looked to box kick it a bit more and take the Boks on in the air. Only a handful of pro tens can hit those cross field kicks with the required degree of accuracy. NL isn’t at that level yet.

[formerly known as Sam]

The cross field kicks in that weather was madness, and they kept doing it.

The Wallabies were certainly lacking spark and looked very blunt. The backline is underpowered and lacking raw place - 19 year old Jorgenson certainly provided a lot of the latter!

Bad conditions means hands to the outside is going to be tough. Not getting anywhere running into the Boks massive pack so why not go for the crossfield. Yeah it's a tough move but it beats just getting marmalised by the Boks forwards.

I see what you’re saying but the Boks wingers are lethal and the kicks were not accurate enough. Undoubtedly the wallabies had to try something but they could have looked to box kick it a bit more and take the Boks on in the air. Only a handful of pro tens can hit those cross field kicks with the required degree of accuracy. NL isn’t at that level yet.

The Boks wingers are lethal but they're also not very big. NL fluffing how lines doesn't mean it was a good idea. In those conditions it's a tough catch to make under pressure whether you're attacking or defending.

[Rugby Fan]

Salmaan Moerat and RG Snyman are out of the weekend's Test against NZ. Eben Etzebeth is apparently also a doubt. Pieter-Steph du Toit might end up featuring in the second row.

https://rugby365.com/countries/new-zealand/springboks-face-lock-crisis/

[formerly known as Sam]

If one country can cope with an injury crisis at lock it's the Boks. Be interesting to see who they opt to call into the squad, Mostert is injured but Jason Jenkins could get a go maybe.

[Rugby Fan]

Etzebeth not named but he apparently could make it. Pieter-Steph du Toit and Ruan Nortje are named starters at lock. No Willie le Roux.

Springboks: 15 Aphelele Fassi, 14 Cheslin Kolbe, 13 Jesse Kriel, 12 Damian de Allende, 11 Kurt-Lee Arendse, 10 Sacha Feinberg-Mngomezulu, 9 Cobus Reinach, 8 Jasper Wiese, 7 Ben-Jason Dixon, 6 Siya Kolisi (c), 5 Ruan Nortje, 4 Pieter-Steph du Toit, 3 Frans Malherbe, 2 Bongi Mbonambi, 1 Ox Nche

Replacements: 16 Malcolm Marx, 17 Gerhard Steenekamp, 18 Vincent Koch, 19 Marco van Staden, 20 Elrigh Louw, 21 Kwagga Smith, 22 Grant Williams, 23 Handre Pollard

https://www.planetrugby.com/news/eben-etzebeth-out-springboks-forced-into-makeshift-lock-pairing-while-willie-le-roux-omitted-for-all-blacks-test

[formerly known as Sam]

Ben Jason-Dixon adds size on the blindside to keep the three lock sized jumping options. The ABs are short on experienced quality at lock themselves so that might not be the worst time for SA to have these injuries, surprised they didn't call up replacements though.

Watch Pat T and Barrett return for the ABs now and prove me wrong.

[Rugby Fan]

Etzebeth has been added to the Springboks bench in place of Marco van Staden.

[doctor_grey]

Etzebeth has been added to the Springboks bench in place of Marco van Staden.

That should make the ABs happy (until kickoff)...

[Rugby Fan]

Sam Cane named in the starting XV

All Blacks: Beauden Barrett, Will Jordan, Rieko Ioane, Jordie Barrett, Caleb Clarke, Damian McKenzie, TJ Perenara, Ardie Savea, Sam Cane, Ethan Blackadder, Tupou Vaa’i, Scott Barrett (captain), Tyrel Lomax, Codie Taylor, Tamaiti Williams.

Reserves: Asafo Aumua, Ofa Tu’ungafasi, Fletcher Newell, Sam Darry, Samipeni Finau, Cortez Ratima, Anton Lienert-Brown, Mark Tele’a.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/350396071/all-blacks-sam-cane-picked-start-no-7-test-against-springboks-johannesburg

[mikey_dragon]

Sam Cane named in the starting XV

All Blacks: Beauden Barrett, Will Jordan, Rieko Ioane, Jordie Barrett, Caleb Clarke, Damian McKenzie, TJ Perenara, Ardie Savea, Sam Cane, Ethan Blackadder, Tupou Vaa’i, Scott Barrett (captain), Tyrel Lomax, Codie Taylor, Tamaiti Williams.

Reserves: Asafo Aumua, Ofa Tu’ungafasi, Fletcher Newell, Sam Darry, Samipeni Finau, Cortez Ratima, Anton Lienert-Brown, Mark Tele’a.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/350396071/all-blacks-sam-cane-picked-start-no-7-test-against-springboks-johannesburg

Big prop forwards, that is how you beat (or at least try) SA. 2nd row requires someone like Retallick to partner Barrett to give them a better chance of victory. Sam Darry looks alright, not sure about Vaa'i.

[Rugby Fan]

I can't call this match. While the venue surely gives South Africa an advantage, pundits seem to be making the All Blacks bigger underdogs than you might expect.

[Rugby Fan]

South Africa 5-7 New Zealand after 24 minutes

Some controversial calls already. It's a hard fought start, with the All Blacks competing hard.

[Duty281]

Quite a sight to see South Africa unloading that bench early in the second half when trailing!

SA 17-22 NZ with 30 minutes left.

[Duty281]

Wow, NZ had a chance to kill the game. They were ten points up and had a lineout five metres from the SA goalline. Bungled the chance.

SA have responded, with the aid of a NZ sin bin, to lead 31-27 with four minutes left.

[formerly known as Sam]

Wow, NZ had a chance to kill the game. They were ten points up and had a lineout five metres from the SA goalline. Bungled the chance.

SA have responded, with the aid of a NZ sin bin, to lead 31-27 with four minutes left.

That NZ sin bin was well deserved and could have come earlier.

Cracking game. Robertson will be annoyed with how his charges faltered in the face of the bomb squad. I'm not sure bringing in the experience of Cane at 7 helped. Blackadder at 6 was a let down. The ABs attack was pretty special at times though.

[RDW]

Looks like the much stronger SA bench made the difference. I don't actually recognise a lot of that All Black bench, and I watch Super Rugby!

Still a lot closer than expected - I thought SA would run out clear winners.

[RDW]

Aussie kicking game remaining to be poor - kicking at the wrong time and with poor execution. In bad weather, they need to do much better.

[doctor_grey]

I like games played in the mist. Makes the ground slippery...

[RDW]

Australia snatch it at the death! Not sure the ref really knew what was going on most of the game - so many knock ones missed, confusion at the end on the timing etc

Fair play Wallabies they were pretty average then from the second half managed to find some more aggression in the carries and kept the pressure on, including defending on their own line at times. They found a way.

[Duty281]

Australia pinch an absolutely filthy, error-strewn game with a last minute penalty. Which is kind of fitting, I suppose.

[Rugby Fan]

The South Africa vs NZ match conjured up memories of England's World Cup semi-final against the Boks. While a very different style of game, NZ succumbed to the same kind of pressure as England. There was even that moment with a lineout near the opposition line, where a score might have taken the game away from South Africa. England lost the lineout, and NZ got burgled at the breakdown.

Despite personnel disruptions, the South African bench made more of an impact. Once they got back to less than a seven point gap, the go-ahead score looked inevitable.

NZ Herald is quite brutal with the replacements ratings. Actually wonder whether some of these numbers are misprints.

https://archive.is/lvstk#selection-5187.0-5217.19

Asafo Aumua - 3
Ofa Tu’ungafasi - 3
Fletcher Newell - 3
Sam Darry - 2
Samipeni Finau - 2
Cortez Ratima - 2
Anton Lienert-Brown - 3
Mark Tele’a - 4

Malcolm Marx 7/10
Gerhard Steenekamp 7/10
Vincent Koch 7/10
Eben Etzebeth 8/10
Elrigh Louw 8/10
Kwagga Smith 8/10
Grant Williams 6/10
Handre Pollard 5/10

[king_carlos]

That Boks win felt particularly ridiculous due to the second row injuries that the Boks have. Lood, Snyman, Mostert and Moerat. Etzebeth starting the match on the bench as he was an injury doubt as well. PSdT back in the boiler room as cover. Kitshoff is out at the minute too of course.

The start of the 6-2 and bomb squad was largely built around their obscene lock depth, then stacking Marx and Kitshoff together on the bench for second half impact. To have lost the lock depth and Kitshoff to injury, then just pull it off anyway is insane. That decision to still hold Kitshoff, Etzebeth and Kwagga back despite the injuries clearly paid off.

With Evan Roos stalling a bit, it's important for them that Elrigh Louw is doing well too.

Watching how Rassie develops this aging side over the next 4 years will be really interesting.

[TAFKA The Oracle]

An interesting read here with the father of the new Springboks fly half Sasha Feinberg-Mngomezulu. He was a white anti-apartheid protestor exiled to the UK for a number of years. But born in the UK by the sounds of it:

https://www.sowetanlive.co.za/amp/news/south-africa/2024-08-30-ours-is-not-a-typical-father-son-relationship--sachas-dad/

[formerly known as Sam]

With Evan Roos stalling a bit, it's important for them that Elrigh Louw is doing well too.

Louw did show some good footwork and turn of pace for an absolute unit.

Louw's club mate Hannekom could be stepping into the squad sooner rather than later as well. The options for big hard hitting 8s are exactly short.

[bsando]

So the AB's lose again. Yes SA are a very good side with excellent all round game, but the Robertson tenure has begun very poorly. They're now in danger of slipping up against the Wallabies which would probably be a hugely embarrassing moment for NZ rugby.

Despite two tight tests in SA, ultimately the AB's have come up short. It's hard to see what Robertson is trying to do. Yes bringing through new talent is important and retirements and injuries have played their part in this. But why is he handing out debuts to players away from home against the best side in the world? Why is he shuffling the team sheet around so much?

On to Argentina. What a thumping result for them! They've now beaten both NZ and Aus (a record loss for them) this championship, can they find a way to beat the Boks?

[Duty281]

SA were trailing going into HT again, but I had little doubt they'd find a way to turn it around!

Australia were 20-3 up at one point, then hit a massive wall. It reminded me of that England v SA game from several years back when England built a huge lead, yet still managed to lose.

Don't think Argentina will get anywhere near the Boks. They make too many errors and their discipline isn't good enough.

[mikey_dragon]

Arg are super inconsistent. Losing to this Aus side first, then putting 60+ on them. The game in Aus must really be struggling again. I’m sure in time, Schmidt will make them a decent team but these players seem inferior to the ones that came before them.

[RDW]

Ooft that happened Wallabies! I saw the score and that they were 20-3 up at one point and just assumed they had 3 red cards or something - nope.

[doctor_grey]

Arg are super inconsistent. Losing to this Aus side first, then putting 60+ on them. The game in Aus must really be struggling again. I’m sure in time, Schmidt will make them a decent team but these players seem inferior to the ones that came before them.

I think Rugby Union is losing athletes to other sports in Aus.

[RDW]

Arg are super inconsistent. Losing to this Aus side first, then putting 60+ on them. The game in Aus must really be struggling again. I’m sure in time, Schmidt will make them a decent team but these players seem inferior to the ones that came before them.

I think Rugby Union is losing athletes to other sports in Aus.  

Yeah Carter Gordon (Eddie Jones' choice at 10) and Mark Nawaqanitawase already moved to NRL, and rumours of more moving (Jordan Petaia). Given the death of the Melbourne Rebels and precarious state of the national game they must be seeing it as a more secure long-term future. Shame as both are class players, particularly Marky Mark who is a freak if an athlete.

Speaking of freakish athletes, Rugby Australia will be desperate for a boost when Joseph Sua'ali'ili moves across the other way!

[formerly known as Sam]

Marky Mark is only earning £460k over the two years. Not massive money. Carter Gordon I can't see salary info for. Australia Rugby do need to get their house in order and sharpish. Putting Schmidt in charge is a great start to be fair.

[mountain man]

Australia lose too many best athletes to other sports, mainly league and Aussie Rules. Union there is unfortuntely declining and unless a rapid improvement made its looking grim for future.
Lion tour looking like a non event walk over at moment.

[RDW]

Marky Mark is only earning £460k over the two years. Not massive money. Carter Gordon I can't see salary info for. Australia Rugby do need to get their house in order and sharpish. Putting Schmidt in charge is a great start to be fair.

Still a good wedge! He won't be on top dollar straight away but NRL will aways be strong in Australia, Rugby has a lot more uncertainty.

[mikey_dragon]

Arg are super inconsistent. Losing to this Aus side first, then putting 60+ on them. The game in Aus must really be struggling again. I’m sure in time, Schmidt will make them a decent team but these players seem inferior to the ones that came before them.

I think Rugby Union is losing athletes to other sports in Aus.  

Yes, that’s been happening for a long time. Most Aussies I meet are into rugby league.

[formerly known as Sam]

Marky Mark is only earning £460k over the two years. Not massive money. Carter Gordon I can't see salary info for. Australia Rugby do need to get their house in order and sharpish. Putting Schmidt in charge is a great start to be fair.

Still a good wedge! He won't be on top dollar straight away but NRL will aways be strong in Australia, Rugby has a lot more uncertainty.

Oh aye it's not peanuts but it's not ridiculous money and he could have got similar offers in Union.

[formerly known as Sam]

Arg are super inconsistent. Losing to this Aus side first, then putting 60+ on them. The game in Aus must really be struggling again. I’m sure in time, Schmidt will make them a decent team but these players seem inferior to the ones that came before them.

I think Rugby Union is losing athletes to other sports in Aus.  

Yes, that’s been happening for a long time. Most Aussies I meet are into rugby league.

The Aussies like a winner.

When I was over there they seemed more interested in Aussie Rules than either rugby code.

It's a tough market but they've got to build the grass roots game up and look for untapped areas. I've seen criticism of area age grade selection being based around big cities with a lot of the rural areas ignored. Unsure how true that is but if it is that's the sort of thing they need to move past. Start finding the tough lads from mining and farming areas who are hungry for the game. It's much the same issue the RFU have trying to embed the game past the private school system.

[Rugby Fan]

Before today's Bledisloe match, Shane Horgan suggested England and Wales performances on tour against NZ and Australia perhaps weren't as encouraging as the home nation sides first thought.

Given the way NZ have now gone scoreless in the last 20 of every Rugby Championship match, England should definitely wonder how they failed to press the advantage when they had it.

Karl Dickson has copped a lot of online flack again today. While I don't rate him as a referee, that seems a bit unfair. He does have a habit of extending an arm to keep a team onside, which sometimes makes it look like he's playing a penalty advantage. Still, the players know what's going on, so it's only momentarily confusing to spectators.

[RDW]

Just back from a fairly bizarre bledisloe Test at Sydney Olympic park. Decent 60,000+ crowd, with probably 40% of that being kiwis. There's fewer people at the mega big NRL elimination final tonight (albeit a sellout in a smaller stadium). This shows there's still an appetite for big rugby internationals in Sydney, even though the recent record in Sydney is absolute terrible for the Wallabies.

I say bizarre because for 60 minutes the ABs were utterly dominant and the Wallabies completely woeful, yet somehow the ABs weren't 50-60 points up like they should have been. ABs didn't have to do much - Wallabies barely lasted 2-3 phases before the ball was turned over which led to NZ scores.

Wallaby lineout was dreadful, continuity was dreadful, wide defence was dreadful, passing and attack was dreadful. They were utterly hopeless for most of the game.

Yet somehow with 10 minutes to go they were not only close on the scoreboard but also had all the momentum. If the try with 8 minutes left hadn't been disallowed there was a good chance the Wallabies would have gone on to win.

Not sure what either team will take from it tbh!

[Maine man]

Karl Dickson has copped a lot of online flack again today. While I don't rate him as a referee, that seems a bit unfair. He does have a habit of extending an arm to keep a team onside, which sometimes makes it look like he's playing a penalty advantage. Still, the players know what's going on, so it's only momentarily confusing to spectators.[/quote]

Not a Dickson fan but thought he was OK today. Was it me or were they picking up on a lot of forward passes today than usual?

[bsando]

Harry Wilson blamed a few misreads in defence for the early AB scores. While I agree with him, the All Blacks took advantage of the gaps they left open in that defensive line superbly.

Much more encouraging from the Wallabies I'd say. Fessler scored an excellent try from a maul that was going backwards. Really clever timing to catch the AB's off guard. Overall Aus looked more direct. I can see improvement compared to their fixtures at start of the tournament. Looonnng way to go but they could get better this Autumn.

All Blacks have not had a good tournament and the vulnerability to their game that began under Foster but then appeared to dissipate as they finished strongly at the RWC, has reared its ugly head once more. The new faces in the team have had an impact and i don't think any of the sides Razor put out were close to what could be the best AB starting XV.

As a depth building exercise both sides have made progress.

[RDW]

Argentina beat South Africa! Pretty remarkable for them to have toppled both SA and New Zealand in the same tournament. Absolutely rampant atmosphere in that stadium too.

[Rugby Fan]

Argentina have matches against Italy, Ireland and France in Autumn. They have already beaten two of the top 4 sides, so it'll be quite a feat if they can get one, or both, of the other two before the end of the year.

[mikey_dragon]

I missed that game but wow, didn’t expect Puma’s to win. What a result.

[Rugby Fan]

Matt Giteau explained on his podcast why he had a scarf when he was involved with the Beldisloe Cup presentation.

He says he competed for the cup throughout his career but never won it, so he didin't think, even as a former player, that he had the right to touch it directly. He used a scarf to hold it, rather than place a hand on it.

[Old Man]

I reckon Libok is running out of chances to wear the Springbok 10 jersey. Two of our last three losses can be attributed to him not kicking his goals.

[mikey_dragon]

I reckon Libok is running out of chances to wear the Springbok 10 jersey. Two of our last three losses can be attributed to him not kicking his goals.

Maybe that and perhaps Moerat? I’ve seen him get a bit of stick for a while now. Stormers have a host of other good locks though; Smith, van Heerden, and the incoming JD Schickerling. The Sharks 10 looks pretty good.

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