URC attendances

In the main, they are shocking.

Bulls v Ulster (6,319) Pretoria - population 2.8 million
Lions v Edinburgh (3,542) Johanesburg - population 5.6 million

Pathetic attendances aside, It is completely unethical and unacceptable to fly a squad 8,000 miles to another continent to play infront of 3,500 people on a regular basis.

It can't go on like this.

Not a great week to complain about attendances when 74,000 tickets have already been sold for the Leinster V Munster URC game this weekend, prob be a close to 82,000 sell out on the day.

Really? You're aligning the entire competition's attendances with one of the best attended club fixtures in world rugby?

That, is the pinancle of deflection.

Whilst you highlighting a highly attended game gives a distorted picture so does cherry picking two games to suit an argument.

It is better to take a look at the complete picture

23-24 URC attendances, with crowds averaging at 11,200 per game.
The averages are rising overall and the league gets more money per team in TV revenue than the English Premiership
so I would suggest it is perfectly viable.

Last season
Premiership average 15,358 per match
URC average of 11,200 per match

geoff999rugby wrote:Whilst you highlighting a highly attended game gives a distorted picture so does cherry picking two games to suit an argument.

It is better to take a look at the complete picture

23-24  URC attendances, with crowds averaging at 11,200 per game.
The averages are rising overall and the league gets more money per team in TV revenue than the English Premiership
so I would suggest it is perfectly viable.
   

One team skews the attendances and you know it.

Flying to Africa regularly is not sustainable or ethical and is shameful.

Firstly all three of the leading Irish sides get very respectable crowds
Secondly the URC is a young league and importantly is growing year on year
The premiership figures for Saracens and Quins are completed distorted by games in Twickenham.
Leicester, Bristol and Quins do better than the Irish teams (Bath and Saints not far behind).
The Saffers are growing and I's sure will rise.

Yes the Premiership currently gets higher crowds but the URC is on the rise.
TV companies see this with higher revenue per team than the Premiership.

If it continues to work it is sustainable.

Not ethical and shameful - Bizarre ?

Basically if you don't live in a big country with high wealth and high populations
number you should now your place with the lower orders.

You do what you need to succeed.

Why do you post consistently have a vindictive edge?
You need to get rid of that chip on your shoulder.

Did an Irish nurse drop you on your head as a baby

The SA attendances will increase vs the European teams overtime. It takes a while for people to buy into a new rivalry. If you look at the local derby matches in South Africa the attendance numbers are much higher.

Some teams from Europe are already seeing higher attendances due to the quality of those teams.

The Lions will not increase in attendances unless they find a new ground to play in. The area where Ellispark is situated is not an area many people want to frequent. Parking, safety and quick in and out of Doornfontein are major obstacles for increasing attendances.

Not sure why you both are saying SA sides attendances will grow and rise (which I agree they will), but you make it sound like they are low.

Season before last Stormers averaged 16,808, Sharks 15,760, Bulls 12, 754 and Lions 6,544.

There no doubt that last seasons averages were higher given the overall growth of the league attendance, if anyone wants to work it out.

3 of the 4 SA sides already draw in equal the big 3 Provinces.

Kingshu wrote:Not sure why you both are saying SA sides attendances will grow and rise (which I agree they will), but you make it sound like they are low.

Season before last Stormers averaged 16,808, Sharks 15,760, Bulls 12, 754 and Lions 6,544.

There no doubt that last seasons averages were higher given the overall growth of the league attendance, if anyone wants to work it out.

3 of the 4 SA sides already draw in equal the big 3 Provinces.

At the height of Super rugby (going back to the Super 12, SA attendances where double these numbers. When the conferences came into being the popularity rapidly declined.

URC crowds are rising overall - Glasgow have outgrown their ground. the big games in Scotland draw 40 000 crowds.

RugbyFan100 wrote:In the main, they are shocking.

Bulls v Ulster (6,319) Pretoria - population 2.8 million
Lions v Edinburgh (3,542) Johanesburg - population 5.6 million

Pathetic attendances aside, It is completely unethical and unacceptable to fly a squad 8,000 miles to another continent to play infront of 3,500 people on a regular basis.

It can't go on like this.

Unless I'm mistaken you are a fan of the Premiership? If that's the case why not stay on your side of the pond and focus on English rugby. Attendance does not equate to money. As long as the TV contracts get bigger each time it will pay for the expenses of the league. There's also a ton of other non measurable benefits. The travel actually is a good thing in terms of how international players are expected to travel and prepare which helps our younger player development. The league has a ton of internationals from most of the major countries in it and all the teams get used to various play styles and conditions.

Premiership rugby has enough of its own problems to worry about so maybe you should focus on them there and supporting that product instead of worrying about what the URC is doing.

You can't compare the 2 as they are totally different products. If you enjoy the Premiership fill your boots. I've been more than happy with the rugby on show in the URC the past 3 years. I don't watch Premiership rugby and clearly your not a URC fan. That's fine. People can like different things.

Old Man wrote:The SA attendances will increase vs the European teams overtime. It takes a while for people to buy into a new rivalry. If you look at the local derby matches in South Africa the attendance numbers are much higher.

Some teams from Europe are already seeing higher attendances due to the quality of those teams.

The Lions will not increase in attendances unless they find a new ground to play in. The area where Ellispark is situated is not an area many people want to frequent. Parking, safety and quick in and out of Doornfontein are major obstacles for increasing attendances.

Theres no point discussing this as I've already explained to him the Lions situation before. He's just going to keep bringing it up

The lions crowds are low for various reason but their TV viewership is huge. There's a reason why SA wants them there ahead of the Cheetahs.

geoff999rugby wrote:

Why do you post consistently have a vindictive edge?
You need to get rid of that chip on your shoulder.

Did an Irish nurse drop you on your head as a baby


 

That's a really lovely thing to say, thank you

Welshmushroom wrote:

Unless I'm mistaken you are a fan of the Premiership?  If that's the case why not stay on your side of the pond and focus on English rugby.  Attendance does not equate to money.   As long as the TV contracts get bigger each time it will pay for the expenses of the league.  There's also a ton of other non measurable benefits.  The travel actually is a good thing in terms of how international players are expected to travel and prepare which helps our younger player development.  The league has a ton of internationals from most of the major countries in it and all the teams get used to various play styles and conditions.  

Premiership rugby has enough of its own problems to worry about so maybe you should focus on them there and supporting that product instead of worrying about what the URC is doing.

You can't compare the 2 as they are totally different products.  If you enjoy the Premiership fill your boots.  I've been more than happy with the rugby on show in the URC the past 3 years. I don't watch Premiership rugby and clearly your not a URC fan.  That's fine.   People can like different things.

No, I follow a Welsh region. Unfortunately my team is in the URC.

Apology accepted.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Old Man wrote:The SA attendances will increase vs the European teams overtime. It takes a while for people to buy into a new rivalry. If you look at the local derby matches in South Africa the attendance numbers are much higher.

Some teams from Europe are already seeing higher attendances due to the quality of those teams.

The Lions will not increase in attendances unless they find a new ground to play in. The area where Ellispark is situated is not an area many people want to frequent. Parking, safety and quick in and out of Doornfontein are major obstacles for increasing attendances.

Theres no point discussing this as I've already explained to him the Lions situation before. He's just going to keep bringing it up

The lions crowds are low for various reason but their TV viewership is huge. There's a reason why SA wants them there ahead of the Cheetahs.

What about Zebre and the Bulls? Considering the population bases, they are pitiful attendances.

Cardiff will have far more watching this weekend than Pretoria had last weekend. There are 2.4m people in Pretoria.

RugbyFan100 wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Old Man wrote:The SA attendances will increase vs the European teams overtime. It takes a while for people to buy into a new rivalry. If you look at the local derby matches in South Africa the attendance numbers are much higher.

Some teams from Europe are already seeing higher attendances due to the quality of those teams.

The Lions will not increase in attendances unless they find a new ground to play in. The area where Ellispark is situated is not an area many people want to frequent. Parking, safety and quick in and out of Doornfontein are major obstacles for increasing attendances.

Theres no point discussing this as I've already explained to him the Lions situation before. He's just going to keep bringing it up

The lions crowds are low for various reason but their TV viewership is huge. There's a reason why SA wants them there ahead of the Cheetahs.

What about Zebre and the Bulls? Considering the population bases, they are pitiful attendances.

Cardiff will have far more watching this weekend than Pretoria had last weekend. There are 2.4m people in Pretoria.

The attendances collapsed at the end of super rugby, they had 5k watching a home game against the Sunwolves for instance, so they are still recovering. They had impressive tv numbers watch their semi final and final though approx 1 million each.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
The attendances collapsed at the end of super rugby, they had 5k watching a home game against the Sunwolves for instance, so they are still recovering. They had impressive tv numbers watch their semi final and final though approx 1 million each.

1) Why are teams leaving an awful carbon footprint to play infront of terribly low crowds?
2) Why do Welsh teams take so much flak for attendances when they are higher than those of rugby mad South SAfrica? It's like certain people invovled with the URC are totally seduced by the South Africans and they must be treated like royalty at all times.

Which welsh team do you support?

Welshmushroom wrote:Which welsh team do you support?

Scarlets

RugbyFan100 wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
The attendances collapsed at the end of super rugby, they had 5k watching a home game against the Sunwolves for instance, so they are still recovering. They had impressive tv numbers watch their semi final and final though approx 1 million each.

1) Why are teams leaving an awful carbon footprint to play infront of terribly low crowds?
2) Why do Welsh teams take so much flak for attendances when they are higher than those of rugby mad South SAfrica? It's like certain people invovled with the URC are totally seduced by the South Africans and they must be treated like royalty at all times.

Every team gets flak for attendances, you know that there are far more forums out there discussing these things other than this very small one right?

RugbyFan100 wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
The attendances collapsed at the end of super rugby, they had 5k watching a home game against the Sunwolves for instance, so they are still recovering. They had impressive tv numbers watch their semi final and final though approx 1 million each.

1) Why are teams leaving an awful carbon footprint to play infront of terribly low crowds?
2) Why do Welsh teams take so much flak for attendances when they are higher than those of rugby mad South SAfrica? It's like certain people invovled with the URC are totally seduced by the South Africans and they must be treated like royalty at all times.

Are they higher than Rugby mad SA?
22/23 average attendance (someone can work out 23/24 as they will be higher in SA)

Stormers 16,808
Sharks 15,760
Bulls 12,754
Cardiff 7,719
Ospreys 7,441
Scarlets 7,375
Dragons 6,818
Lions 6,544

Thats regular season, you can add that Stormer had 3 home play off games that season with an average of 48,789 (lowest was 44,106 in case you think final pulled the ave up).

Don't think any of the regions ever got the averages of the 3 big SA sides.

There is way more nuance to this topic in any case. I also dont think you can compare each of the countries inside the URC as each of them are very different in their own right.

Success, Cost of Living & Public Wealth, Other Sports, history of the teams etc

I'm assuming Rugbyfan's main hope is Welsh rugby plays and joins English teams. It's the magic bullet I keep hearing from Journo's and old semi pro players. I can assure you joining the Premiership will do almost nothing for home attendances in Wales. That's because there are far deeper issues not being addressed that will keep the teams unsupported in these areas and none of those will be resolved by changing opposition. I honestly believe if Welsh Regions leave the URC then it will be the end of rugby in Wales. It might take 5-10 years to get there but it will.

I dont even think the majority of supporters who watch regional rugby in the URC want to leave the league. But as I said the people running the club game are crazy and prone to crazy decisions in wales.

I see many comments on youtube podcasts where the Irish especially love the SA teams in the URC.

The Scottish comments are not as frequent as the Irish, but haven't seen one negative comment yet about SA being in the URC.

Welshmushroom wrote:

 I can assure you joining the Premiership will do almost nothing for home attendances in Wales.  That's because there are far deeper issues not being addressed that will keep the teams unsupported in these areas and none of those will be resolved by changing opposition.  I honestly believe if Welsh Regions leave the URC then it will be the end of rugby in Wales.  It might take 5-10 years to get there but it will.  
 

Given the decline in Welsh rugby over the last 10 years in magners / celtic and URC leagues......to where we are now...on the brink of oblivion for welsh teams and our national side a shadow of it's former self:

What possible data has lead you to that conclusion?

Sure the URC are to blame for Welsh woes.....I'm sure you are right and the regional powerbrokers haven't had any part to play in the decline of rugby in wales.....

I'm starting to think there is zero point debating you.....  as I pointed out there is nuance to this conversation but you seem to have an over simplistic view on this which of course is your right but I dont think the answer to solve the crisis in wales as anything but this simple.  Its multi layered.  Solving just one of the issues wont fix it.

I ask a reasoned question and I get that.

Shame.

Welshmushroom wrote:Sure the URC are to blame for Welsh woes.....I'm sure you are right and the regional powerbrokers haven't had any part to play in the decline of rugby in wales.....

I'm starting to think there is zero point debating you.....  as I pointed out there is nuance to this conversation but you seem to have an over simplistic view on this which of course is your right but I dont think the answer to solve the crisis in wales as anything but this simple.  Its multi layered.  Solving just one of the issues wont fix it.

I don't think the league can resonate with a few in Wales and that's obvious. There are also lots of people in Wales who enjoy the URC though, they pay for Premier Sports and turn up to watch their team. I'm not sure if the South Africans being in the league will be sustainable in future, but for now they bring in big TV money. I think it's more likely that the English teams will join the URC, rather than the Anglo-Welsh league - which if it came to be then it just means more Welsh players picked off by English clubs. I'm not a fan of conferences either.

RugbyFan100 wrote:I ask a reasoned question and I get that.

Shame.

You have not asked a single reasoned question here - just spouted bile for no reason. Are you drunk?

Yeah Mikey - that sums me up - im happy to pay for Premier Sports and despite the woes of following the Dragons, I still happily support them. I've enjoyed the URC and it still surprises me how many of the games I watch that don't have a Welsh team playing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=j5jRcM3Ys5M

Here is a link to two cents rugby where he analysed and compared attendances in the URC by country and to premiership attendances. Three SA teams and Leinster had the best attendances. There are more graphs than you could shake a stick at. Enjoy!