John Smit voted Best Bok ever

by Adam D Wed 22 Jun 2011, 9:41 am

John Smit was voted the top Springbok of all time by Sports Illustrated magazine, even pipping the great Frik du Preez.
According to SI even legends like Frik du Preez (player of the 20th century), Naas, Botha, Danie Craven, Mannetjies Roux and Francois Pienaar are not in the same class as the Sharks’ Bok captain.

A panel analysed the Bok careers on the basis of the impact they had on SA rugby and then offered “thousands of readers” the opportunity to vote.

Some ex-Boks who landed on the list themselves raised an eyebrow when the heard the result of the vote.

One of them, on condition of anonimity, burst out laughing.

But Francois Pienaar, captain of the 1995 side that won the Webb Ellis Trophy said it comes as no surprise that Smit is voted tops. Pienaar is 12th on the list.

“He lead the side in difficult years and worked wonders. He deserves it,” Pienaar said.

The Top Ten behind Smit is Frik du Preez, Os du Randt, Victor Matfield, Naas Botha, Danie Gerber, Percy Montgomery, Joost van der Westhuizen, André Joubert and Mark Andrews.

Others on the list are Uli Schmidt (13), Mannetjies Roux (17), Morné du Plessis (21). James Small (27). Hennie Muller (33), Kobus Wiese (35), Boy Louw (39), Danie Craven (42), Morné Steyn (64), Butch James (75), Chris Koch (86), Ryk van Schoor (96) and Abie Malan (97). Jannie de Beer ends the list on 100.

Reproduced with thanks from http://www.ruggaworld.com/2011/06/22/john-smit-voted-best-bok-ever/ - great site for SH rugby.

Do you agree - is John Smit the bestever Bok?

by **Biltong** Wed 22 Jun 2011, 9:47 am

I don't see a problem with him being voted number one. Any of the Boks on that list is voted in by people, and as we all know votes are subjective.

To burst out laughing is rather disrespectful and arrogant.

Although putting Jannie de Beer in at number 100, well let's just say apart from the drop goals he kicked in 1999, he was a very average player.

by FerN Wed 22 Jun 2011, 10:15 am

That isn't how my vote would have gone, but no doubt that Smit has had a great impact on our game. Best bok in term of what, different people weight different things differently.

by mckay1402 Wed 22 Jun 2011, 10:18 am

Smit is a great Bok no doubt. Suprised he's been voted greatest Bok ever though with the astonishingly good players they've had.

by bedfordwelsh Wed 22 Jun 2011, 10:37 am

As a neutral then I wouldn't have said Smit was 'Best Ever' certainly one of the best yes.

After 95 I would have thought Pienaar had done more than any to highlight and promote South African rugby.

Then again my vote would have gone to Botha.

by MR. scotland27 Wed 22 Jun 2011, 10:48 am

bedfordwelsh wrote:As a neutral then I wouldn't have said Smit was 'Best Ever' certainly one of the best yes.

After 95 I would have thought Pienaar had done more than any to highlight and promote South African rugby.

I have to agree that Pienaar probably did more for SA rugby but did have a falling out with the authorities after the WC, so I suppose Smit is one of the best but I would have gone with Pienaar myself.

by TheGreyGhost Wed 22 Jun 2011, 1:15 pm

As they would say on Wikipedia, I think that opinion may suffer from recentism.

by emack2 Thu 23 Jun 2011, 12:38 am

Like all these lists totally subjective,John Smit has certainly been one of the best Captains ever.But as a Hooker Bismarck Du Plessis is better,players like Danie Craven,Chris Koch,Avril Malan,Hennie Muller,and so on.
To judge this sensibly you have to judge him as the best in his position,then is he the best Bok Hooker.Jan Lotz is rated one of the best Hookers ever and possibly the best Bok.
What I will say he was a good player and a real Gentlemen,of the recent generation forwards.The Best would be Victor Matfield.

by MBTGOG Thu 23 Jun 2011, 9:01 am

If you were just to look at his ability as a hooker, he might struggle to make it into the top 50 but his intangibles and what they mean for the side are off the scale. The difference he makes when on the pitch is massive and I do think that he could go down as the greatest captain in the pro era.

by **Ozzy3213** Thu 23 Jun 2011, 9:06 am

MBTGOG wrote:If you were just to look at his ability as a hooker, he might struggle to make it into the top 50 but his intangibles and what they mean for the side are off the scale. The difference he makes when on the pitch is massive and I do think that he could go down as the greatest captain in the pro era.

Spot on Munsty.

What Smit brings to the table other than his actual ability as a hooker or prop is immeasurable. When South Africa beat, nay hammered England at Twickenham a couple of years back, players in that team spoke of the speech he gave in the dressing room before the game and the fact that they had the game won before they stepped onto the pitch because. You cannot put a price on that sort of thing, and we should go down as one of the all time greats of the game.

by **Biltong** Thu 23 Jun 2011, 9:19 am

The problem with compiling a list like this is that we all grew up in different era's.

We do not have the luxury to see how the Golden Oldies did in yesteryear.

Add to that the fact that 30 years ago the players had full time jobs and rugby was a parttime sport.

These days players are professional, bigger, stronger, faster, better coached.

So it is impossible to vote for the best player.

Frik du Preez was voted our best player of the previous century, yet I never saw him play. So how can I even think to give my opinion.

by OzT Thu 23 Jun 2011, 9:27 am

emack2 wrote:Like all these lists totally subjective,John Smit has certainly been one of the best Captains ever.But as a Hooker Bismarck Du Plessis is better,players like Danie Craven,Chris Koch,Avril Malan,Hennie Muller,and so on.
To judge this sensibly you have to judge him as the best in his position,then is he the best Bok Hooker.Jan Lotz is rated one of the best Hookers ever and possibly the best Bok.
What I will say he was a good player and a real Gentlemen,of the recent generation forwards.The Best would be Victor Matfield.

Saw victor doing a spot on telly about his home life and what he does for the communaty and he really did come across as a real gent, not sure if that is how he is seen.

I too think Smit brings a lot more to the bok side than his playing ability, of which he can be and is bested at both prop and hooker, but as a skipper he is tops for the boks imho.

Love to know head to head him and Victor in competetion whio has won the most, as in cup and S14 games.

by **Biltong** Thu 23 Jun 2011, 9:38 am

OzT, from memory John smit has 1 Currie Cup and 1 World Cup.

Victor has 3 Super 14 titles, 4 outright Currie Cup wins and 1 shared with the Cheetahs. He also has 1 RWC Cup.

by MBTGOG Thu 23 Jun 2011, 9:42 am

But Smit is the captain of a RWC winning side.

by **Biltong** Thu 23 Jun 2011, 9:45 am

Well my favorite would be Os du Randt.

Two RWC titles 12 years apart.

by OzT Thu 23 Jun 2011, 9:48 am

Cheers for that. Well does that make Victor a bettrer skipper?? He always seem so quiet on the pitch in the Super games compared to Smit with the boks. Kind of the quiet giant.

Os is a legend!!! Looks to be the last of the beer drinking rugby trundling prop player.. though he probably is a fitness fanatic!

by funnyExiledScot Thu 23 Jun 2011, 9:53 am

It's tough, yes Smit has captained a RWC winning side, but rather like Johnson with England who had Back, Dallaglio and Greenwood et al, he was surrounded by a number of influential leaders in the team (Matfield, Du Preez and Montgomery in particular) who must have made that job easier.

He's a great leader, like Johnson and Eales before him, but in leadership stakes was he any better than Pienaar? Personally I'd have looked closer at abilities (in which bth Smit and Pienaar for me qualify as good players rather than great players), and in recent times (and by looking at the list it's certainly focused more on recent times) Matfield has been peerless in his position.

In my lifetime, the best Bok in terms of ability (and not a bad leader either) would have to be Joost. The best scrum half I've ever seen, a brutal competitor. On abilities alone, I'd then have Matfield runner-up and Du Randt in third place.

by doctor_grey Thu 23 Jun 2011, 9:55 am

Gents,
The media like to generate these lists because they stimulate discussion (and more interest in thier publication). For me, I don't like these best ever lists for the reasons you mention. Different eras are make it impossible to truly compare. All we can do is speculate how players from even 15-20 years ago could potentially fare today if they had the benefits of current training, video analysis, nutrition and so on.

But regarding Smit's merits, he is certainly a great leader, and can navigate through the difficult waters which is the politics of SA Rugby. The simple fact he remians captain after all this time tells a lot. As a player, he never takes a backward step, and puts everything into each match. In interviews he seems a class gent, as well. Don't know if he is best ever, but I would certainly pick him to lead my team, given a choice.

by emack2 Fri 24 Jun 2011, 2:39 pm

That`s the problem he `s a great captain but is he worth his place on the field.As I have said there is no way he`s the best Bok ever,if you want a parallel.
Wilson Whineray was one of the Best All Black skippers ever but he was`nt worth his place as a Prop.He was a great forward and could certainly have played number eight.

by Taylorman Sat 25 Jun 2011, 12:48 am

Yeah can't say I really get that one. Mustnt have watched enough SA rugby as I don't really recall many great individual moments on the field from the man.

An SA great for sure but the very best 'player' SA have ever turned out? Wouldnt have been on my list of 5. I'd have picked Matfield, Danie Gerber, Du Preez and Joost ahead of Smit. Naas Botha as well and perhaps even. The lock van heerden from the 70's I recall was very good too.

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