RSA say, 'mike phillips is key to wales'.

Former Springboks full-back Thinus Delport has identified suspended scrum-half Mike Phillips as one of Wales' most important players.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/welsh/13859312.stm



well our opponants would say that. i'm sure they would be really terrified if our scrum half was slow and beligerant.

conversely, the springboks would have no fear of a scrumhalf who has a quick and accurate delivery, and got the ball away from the breakdown quickly.

sarcasm, so early in the morning.

i expect mikky p will go to newzealand, but i dont see him as being key to wales' succes. detrimental more like.

It is only his opinion mate, and he has nothing to do with the springbok camp.

I watched some of the Lions highlights again last night (Dam O'Gara..) and the one thing that stood out were how superb Mike, Stephen and Byrne were on that tour.

Really boys, please find that form again!

draigoch

steveo still has what it takes. poor for wales that he is in his thirties and we have no obvious succsessor.

byrne and phillips will never get it together in time, both have been off the boil for too long. richie rees and/or peel could do the job for us. its not clear who should play at FB although i would be happy enough to see stodds there, or priestland.

In fairness when Mike has played against SA he has given them a pretty tough time. They often find his physicality hard to deal with. that is when he's on form though...

I would be trying a backline of:

9. Knoyle
10. Priestland
11. Williams (if back)
12. JD2
13. Williams
14. North
15. Stoddart

I know it's young and experimental but I really think that is a backline to cause damage. It's time to bring the young guns through and there is no better time than a world cup. Obviously this is not what will happen but I hope it does

Only the Welsh could turn on class players so quickly. The very fact that you think Richie Rees could "do the job" and Phillips "will never get it together in time" speaks volumes.

One is a class act, the other has club journeyman written all over. Poor judgment.

You seem to like Peel. It was only a few months ago that most Welsh fans seemed to think he was past it. Form is temporary, class is permanent.

"It's time to bring the young guns through and there is no better time than a World Cup".

You are kidding right?

Wales backline for the WC:

9.Phillips 10.Hook 11.Williams 12.JD 13.Roberts 14.North 15.Byrne

20.Peel 21.Jones 22.Stoddart

Switch Hook and Jones if you're that way inclined, but otherwise I see little debate.

I have always like Peel but I think he and Mike spend too much time looking at the ball these days. You need someone to get in and get it out which is what they both used to be good at. Peel doesn't have quite the dynamic pace he used to have these days and we all know the issues with Mike.

Class may be permanent but if it's not on show then it's no use at all

No I'm not kidding.

Yes that may be the backline for the world cup but it's hugely debatable whether it's the best one. Mike Phillips is currently banned and is not playing very well, Hook is a possible at 10 but inconsistant, Roberts brings very little in the centre and Byrne hasn't been in great form either.

Admittedly if all those players get it together in time for the world cup then yes I might agree but there are players who are playing well and scoring tries, which none of the above players are doing

I thought Phillips had one of his better games of late against the BaaBaas, that said he has been poor at best for sometime.

A fully fit and on form Phillips would be huge for us and 1st choice but as I said his form has been poor.

Given what has happened of late then if he goes he will (in Gatlands eyes) still go as 1st choice.

If you're not kidding then that statement about the WC being the time to "bring the young guns through" is 100% wrong. I'm sorry, but total nonsense.

The WC is the time for old heads and experience - just look at all the teams that have won it. Your back line would be lacerated.

Sorry I meant the world cup warm ups. I don't agree that this backline would be lacerated. I do think that your backline is the one that has been failing to penetrate any defense over the last two years though

my wales back line for rwc opener

rees, jones, shane, hook, jd, north, stodard

phillips, roberts, tovey

now that back division would be hard for rsa to cope with. fast ball from the breakdown, solid tactical cool headed flyhalf. creativity in midfield and guile, pace and power in the back three

powerfull sh and midfield/wing for last quater, and a confident fh as cover.

crikey, i'm starting to think we can win.

whats wrong with me today

i left out halfpenny. maybe he can step in for shane should old magic daps be unavailable.

Ok - World Cup warm-up may be used in order to assess the odd fringe player, but it's certainly not the time to experiment. Priestland should get some game time though, as should Henson.

I thought the Welsh backs went better with Hook at 10 last season personally, and I'm pretty sure North was injured during the 6 Nations, so I'd hardly say my backline has been fully tried and tested. In any case, these are the best available players in my opinion. If these guys can't get it together and fire, then I don't think Wales will escape the ground in any case.

Peel showed flashes of good form all season but seems to lose focus a bit these days. Part of his former brilliance was his sharpness.

Mike Phillips may be slow at clearing the ball and awful at kicking it but he offers a big physical option around the fringes, great in defence also. His presence keeps an opposition backrow honest. Thing is that he seems to have lost that edge, the spark, the enthusiasm he once had. He doesn't see the gaps, make the breaks, keep opposition on the back foot. His reading of the game is off.

Knoyle is the form player. Plays heads up rugby, has a great passing and kicking game, superb awareness, blistering pace and is great at reading the opposition defence. I think he is the man for the job, probably with Peel as back up.

Phillips has to earn his position again. He has lost form and the fans confidence. I am sure he knows that.

I really want to see Priestland given game time. In my opinion he is the the long term Wales number 10. i know some people go on about tovey but he's not as good in my opinion.

Yes they did go a bit better but still didn't cut any teams apart and were made to look very ordinary against England and France (and Ireland). You only have to look at the Scarlets tries this season to see why I fancy having a few Scarlets in the backline. Having said that it has just occured to me that I may be a little biased...

maesteg,

Hopefully with a competitive back row of Lydiate, Faletau/Delve and Warburton then we wouldn't need the combatitive edge we all know Phillips brings.

I still think he will be involved (ban dependant) and I also think he will lift his game when needed.

That said we have all seen how better our backs function with quick ball. Fullback is the position that more worrie me but thats another debate all together.

I do think you have to consider your opposition here as well though. You have a hugely physical group to negotiate, and your defence will need to be resolute, powerful and experienced.

The likes of Phillips, Roberts and North will be absolutely key to Wales escaping this group.

possibly. I just think its a slippery slope of trying to stop the opposition scoring rather than trying to score ourselves. If Gatland can do the unthinkable and get that bunch to finish off the breaks they make then I will be happy. Still don't think the Roberts is quick enough though.

That said I totally agree that is the backline Gatland sees as his starters...

biltongbek wrote:It is only his opinion mate, and he has nothing to do with the springbok camp.

You beat me to it, Biltong. The title of the article is really stretching things. It's like saying that Michael Lynagh speaks for the Wallabies camp.

Thinus Delport on Mike Phillips
"He adds so much to the Wales team and he's definitely one of the stand-out players.

"He offers a lot of physicality, especially round the breakdown. He reminds me a lot of Joost van der Westhuizen when he played for South Africa".

"He's really aggressive in the defence and especially against a team like South Africa you're going to need that physicality and aggressiveness going into the contact."

The problem with this is that Delport is describing Phillips as he was 2 years ago and not the player he is now. On current form Mike does not deserve to be on that plane to NZ. He's lost his way and is a shadow of the player he was 2/3years.

Also can we cut the nonsense about "Form is temporary, class is permanent" Mike has lost form for 2 years! How much longer do we have to wait for Phillips to regain his Lions form ? If I was Gatland my 3 scrum halfs would be Knoyle, Lloyd Williams, Wayne Evans. Phillips does not make my team. Why not give them a go ? After all what have we got to lose ? We are not going to win the World Cup and it could be the making of someone like Knoyle or Williams. in the same way the 2003 World Cup was the making of a certain Shane Williams. But we wont do that because in Wales we pick on reputation not form. Which is why Wales will struggle to get out of their group.

Londonwelsh

Those would be my three too. I totally agree about Gatland picking on rep.

I can't believe I'm reading this "we can't win, nothing to lose, give the kids a go" stuff from Welsh fans.

If you watched the Baa Baas game I'd say Phillips played pretty well. Certainly to a level I don't think you could expect to ever see from Wayne Evans at this stage!

Seriously guys, pick a bunch of lightweight kids in that group and you could end up finishing in the bottom half. Gatland knows what he's doing. He's trying to build a team on solid foundations rather than the flimsy ones on which you built the last campaign.

I agree with Delport's summation. It's easy to praise a player who is on fire. What he's saying is pick Phillips because you'll need him. Yes, he's had a lull in form, particularly last season (which isn't uncommon at all for players after Lions tours), but he has rare abilities which are perfectly suited to the group you're in.

You know in our last few outings against our group favourites, SA, Wales have been very competitive. Played some of the best rugby in the last two years against them. Three tries in November and June tests.

The backlines.

June 6th
L Byrne; S Halfpenny, J Hook, J Roberts, T Prydie; S Jones, M Phillips

November 10th
15-Byrne; 14-North, 13-Shanklin, 12-Hook, 11-S Williams; 10-S Jones, 9-Phillips

...and just look at all those players selected purely on reputation, like North and Prydie.

Quick, sack Gatland now. There's still time to get Dai Young in place before the WC starts

funnyExiledScot wrote:...and just look at all those players selected purely on reputation, like North and Prydie.

Quick, sack Gatland now. There's still time to get Dai Young in place before the WC starts

Thankfully this isn't 1995, the Welsh public, bar Andy Howell, are not so dramatic.

As mentioned above, a solid set piece and a competitive backrow that will give Wales halfbacks plenty of ball will be the biggest factor, our lineout is hardly the envy of any top ten team, but our scrum is, and if BOTH improve we will have a platform to play some competitive rugby.

"If you watched the Baa Baas game I'd say Phillips played pretty well".

I did and no Phillips did not play pretty well. Lloyd Willaims came on for the Baa Baas did did more all game than Phillips. Knoyle came on and got our backline moving a lot quicker.

"Seriously guys, pick a bunch of lightweight kids in that group and you could end up finishing in the bottom half."

So we carry on as we are then, picking badly out of form players based on reputation not form. Well with 5 tests wins out of 19 I guess that's working!

"Gatland knows what he's doing"

Are you Warren Gatland in disguise ?

Londonwelsh

beautifully f--king illustrated

What Delport is highlighting is that Phillips is one of a handful of Welsh players who have demonstrated that they deserved the tag "World Class" over a decent length of time (even if that time may be some time ago). For Wales to be genuinely competitive at the WC they need these players to perform at the top of their game. Some of the names thrown round on here may be promising youngsters, but the step up to international level is a big one that only a few take to smoothly.

No, I'm not Gatland in disguise, but I do rate him highly as a coach. I can't help but feel that the Welsh public have far too high expectations of the national team - frankly put you don't actually have that many top class players, your regions demonstrate this.

He's trying to add a physical edge to the team to prepare them for the WC. He's ensured that Wales have had tough fixtures against top teams over the last few years, to get the players battle hardened. Yes, the 6 Nations was generally disappointing (although only one side finished with more points), but I think there's a lot of negativity in the Welsh fans that I don't think is entirely justified.

He also seems to be attacked for purely picking on reputation, but actually I'd say he's done a pretty decent job of bringing new blood into the side. Last season we saw Gatland address the lack of depth in the front row, Bradley Davies come through as a new enforcer, and an entirely new back row of Lydiate, Warburton and Falateu emerge. In the backs he's shifted Hook to 10 (neither a reputation nor a form pick really, more an instinctive gamble), capped Prydie and North and brought in Jonathan Davies. Were these reputation or form picks I ask?

Yes, he's been stuck at 15 with Byrne, but which Welsh 15 in club rugby has been on such dazzling form so as not to be ignored. He brought in Stoddart to the set-up on the wing to take a look (was that reputation or form) and has kept him around so I'd say he's a pretty likely back-up option, and possibly may well take the jersey. Difficult to say.

Gatland's PR efforts and pre-match ramblings are dreadful, but as a coach I reckon he's right up there. Had you had a group like ours I could forgive you guys for demanding a more open game plan, but just look at those sides you have to play. Loose rugby from lightweights will not get you through it.

It's an interesting question of perception. Most Wales supporters are pretty hacked off with the way the team seems to have gone backwards under Gatland but from an outside point of view, you appear to be saying he's doing the best with what he's got.

He has done a good job of bringing new blood but only when he's had no choice. The players who have come through have done so not necessarily because they were playing the best at the time, although they probably were but because his first choice players were out injured or banned.

The backrow is strong now because he had no other option but to bring in Warbs and lydiate. The only reason we saw Pridie was because Shane was injured. Even Roberts was only brought into the centre to cover Henson and now Henson is sniffing about again he might be out.

I don't think Wales have gone backwards under Gatland, more that the opposition we were beating when Gats took over have improved dramatically. England, France, Ireland, Australia are all better more competitive teams now.

Wales have improved over the last four years, but not as dramatically as the afore mentioned. Mainly due to injuries to key players causing inconsistent selection.

Strength, depth and experience has increased through a squad of 45 players.

We were close, not clise enough to South Africa, our pool Group top seeds, when we played them last year with some key injuries, so I'd say it's good news

funnyExiledScot wrote:
Last season we saw Gatland address the lack of depth in the front row, Bradley Davies come through as a new enforcer, and an entirely new back row of Lydiate, Warburton and Falateu emerge. In the backs he's shifted Hook to 10 (neither a reputation nor a form pick really, more an instinctive gamble), capped Prydie and North and brought in Jonathan Davies. Were these reputation or form picks I ask?

This is a fair point but more often than not Gatland has selected on reputation not form. Phillips, Bryne, J Roberts, AWJ are all examples of players trading on the Lions reputation of two years ago and it seems no matter how much they underperform they will always be selected. I dont believe for one minute there are no options. In Lee Bryne's case there were definitely options there. Stoddart, Preistland has played well at Full Back for Scarlets, Richard Fussell has also been very good at FB for Ospreys. Around the Six Nations period Martyn Thomas from the Dragons was available so already I've named 4 possible options at FB. Gatland is a stubborn individual who has only rung changes when he has had no other option. I rate Gatland as a club coach but not as a international coach. Apart from 2008 Grand Slam what else has he done in International Rugby ? His time in Ireland wasn’t that successful they made a awful mess of the 1999 World Cup play-off round and he left there under a little bit of a cloud. His "Mind Games" never work, they always backfire and make us look like a laughing stock. Tatics, man management and team selection are not Gatland's strengths. We DO have top class players and I believe that on our day with all players firing we CAN beat anyone in World Rugby. Gatland's failure to get the best out of our players by playing the same old tactics since 2008 means at the moment we cannot achieve this.

I'd say consistent selection has been an issue. When one combination works well, invariably part of that combo got injured.

No consistent pairings mean we will lack experience where we need it.

I don't think anyone could have done much better than Gatland with what he has had to work with. There have been a few exceptions where he has picked experience over the option of a form inexperienced player. Gareth Cooper is glaringly obvious. But I am sure there were other equations involved as well.

But during the last year I thought everyone was happy with his squads and selections considering form and availability.

Let's hope all our best are fit and on form for august and September so we can give a decent account of ourselves.

There are two points that have annoyed me:

His insistence on picking players like Cooper, JT and Bennett. I can (to a degree) understand sticking with JT for a while but it soon became clear that Cooper and Bennett were nowhere near good enough.

The other one is when Byrne was out injured he just took the easy option and moved Hook to XV rather than trying out another option there.

Londonwelsh - you've just named every Welshman that has played a game of rugby at 15 this season. How can you honestly suggest that Fussell has done enough at 15 to justify international selection? Naming players and having legitimate options are two very different things.

He obviously wanted to see Stoddart on the wing first at international level, a wise move in my view given his defensive frailties. Clearly he's in the mix.

I was going to add, I do rate Priestland, and I really would use the warm-ups to give him a chance. Good player that.

funnyExiledScot wrote:I was going to add, I do rate Priestland, and I really would use the warm-ups to give him a chance. Good player that.

Agreed

funnyExiledScot wrote:I was going to add, I do rate Priestland, and I really would use the warm-ups to give him a chance. Good player that.

True. It's a pity your mate Gatland wont pick him though. He wont get much of a chance to show what he can do.

Londonwelsh wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:I was going to add, I do rate Priestland, and I really would use the warm-ups to give him a chance. Good player that.

True. It's a pity your mate Gatland wont pick him though. He wont get much of a chance to show what he can do.

He has played in the last few internationals as a sub.

Indeed, Priestland has been in and around the squad this season and clearly is on the radar. I'd be surprised if he didn't get some time on the pitch in the warm-up fixtures. Given he covers both 10 and 15, I reckon he's got a pretty decent shot of going.

This is where I reckon Gatland will end up for the backs at the WC:

SH: Phillips, Peel and Knoyle
FH: Hook, Jones and Priestland
C: Roberts, Davies and Henson
W: Williams, Halfpenny and North
FB: Byrne and Stoddart

But surely coming on as a sub here and there isn't enough? We should be preparing for the (not unlikely) scenario that a first-choice player gets injured and is out of the tournament, and giving the likes of Knoyle and Priestland full games in the national side. Others have mentioned it already, but Gatland missed - through choice - the opportunity of trying an alternative full back during Lee Byrne's absence through injury, moving Hook there instead.

....and I'll happily agree that using Hook at 15 during that period was a mistake. Hook is first and foremost a 10, and secondly cover at centre. He isn't a full back, and as you say, Wales are seriously short of proven depth at 15 now.

That said, let's not get too carried away with the alternatives at 15. Priestland is a good player, but he was hardly battering down the door this season with his performances. There was promise, but I'm not sure many neutrals were leaping out of the skin watching Priestland at 15 thinking how on earth is this lad not the Welsh 15.

This is one of those areas where I think Welsh fans need to be realistic. Without Byrne you're frankly short a top class 15, and you can blame Gatland all you like for that, but it's not as if the Welsh regions are throwing him too many decent alternatives.

There doesn't seem to be many option available as out n out XV.

Everyone mentions Hook, Priestland, Tovey, Roberts,Halfpenny,Fussell and Prydie but all those players are known for other positions.

I would say Barry Davies and Martyn Thomas seem to be the only out n oit XVs we have had of late but both seem verey injury prone.

I know people will say that it was only while the international players were away, But I was really impressed with Richard Fussell at full back for the Ospreys. He looked to run the ball back when he could, which is more than could be said for Lee 'up and under' Byrne. I'm not saying he's an international star in the making, but some players take to international rugby like the proverbial ducks to water, playing above themselves. They just need to be given the chance.

I'm pretty sure there would have been a fair few Welsh fans screaming "idiot" at Gatland had he picked Fussell out of the blue at 15 during the 6 Nations. Would have been a pretty left-field pick.

I agree though that it's often the case that a player seems to fit well into international rugby despite not always reaching the same level in a club jersey, playing above themselves. We found that with Scotland this season when Jackson came in at stand-off. His Glasgow performances this season have been utterly mixed, from brilliant to dreadful, often within the same game, and yet in a Scotland jersey he looked far more steady and composed, and seemed to settle in and handle the pressure. Very difficult to tell sometimes how it'll work out.

Mike Phillips is pants. Always has been. When he played for the Scarlets we used to watch in amazement as his obvious character shortcomings emerged in the form of various spats. He stated publicly shortly before joining the Ospreys that he was going to teach Justin Marshall a lesson only to be made to look like a pathetic schoolboy. So he might have at one time finally learned to pass the ball to a reasonable standard and got in the face of a few Boks - it was a complete flash in the pan. The man is all mouth and no trousers. I've lost count of the number of times he's wound up an opponent and scuttled off when they stand up to him. It's sad and clearly shows a psychological deficiency. Lastly he got pinned to the ground by a fat bouncer so is he really the physical presence everyone goes on about?

Face it - he doesn't have two brain cells to rub together, can't pass, can't kick .... and gets duffed up by short fat cardiff bouncers. Why on earth would anyone want a player like that?

On the issue of Full Backs - Jamie Roberts ought to be trained in the position. He has all the necessary attributes to make a success of the position. He seems to lack a necessary prerequisite for a centre - the will and means to pass effectively.

You're being much too harsh on Mike. In his career, he's put in far more and better top-level performances than Gavin Henson (compare Lions performances) , yet people give Henson an almost unlimited pass for his nonsense, while hammering Spikey who at least turns up to play rugby.

Yes, he's off form. Yes, he gives slow service. Yes, he got sat on by a fatboy bouncer - though said bouncer probably had the advantage of not having consumed 20 tequila slammers. I was at the Barbarians game, and Phillips (unlike GH) looked slick and dangerous on the ball. When he went off, amidst a host of changes, and the Scarlets boys came on, our backline speeded up immensely but, guess what, I felt certain we were going to lose , which we did. What we gained in speed and movement we more than lost in defensive organization, and the Ba-Bas back 3 ran riot.

I would take Phillips to NZ and play him as a halfback option, starting or coming off the bench, Stephen Jones likewise, thus offering variation in the gameplan. It worked for us in 2008.