Loyalties

On another thread Red Stag has posted about what matters to rugby fans the most, the European Cup or the 6N. Opinion seems to be overwhelmingly in favour of the 6N thanks to its history, rivalry and banter. Trawling through the posts though stag came up with a fantastic quote that I think could be dug up for discussion.

red_stag wrote:I would not be happy to see an Ireland side with no Munster players. Once again i DO support Ireland.

Does the Representation of your Club have an influence on how passionately you support your National team. Lions tours can also be included in this conversation too. The 2009 tour had very little Scottish representation in the team and as a result in the build up I felt very little in the way of excitement and anticipation. However by the climax of the 2nd test I was just as devastated as everyone else.

So do you feel that Representation of your club or country influences your level of passion and support when it comes to international games and to a greater extent Invitational teams like the Lions and the Baa Baa’s?

I support the Newcastle Falcons...so no - its just as well it doesnt influence how much i support the England team

Radge while I wouldn't be happy to see it Ireland would still have my support as the Lions would. I'd be cheesed off but I could still get behind team.

I would never countenance not supporting the All Blacks because no Wellington players were included. This has happened before and will probably happen again at some point.

How many (or usually how little) Scarlets there are playing for Wales does not affect my support for Wales, if there aren't a lot of Scarlets playing at least it makes it easier when we lose as I can just blame the Ospreys or Blues players as well as the coach

How many Welsh players are playing for the Lions is important to me. If no Welsh players were selected, then to be honest, I couldn't really care what happens.

It does for the Lions. If a Lions side had no Irish players in it I would have much less interest. I wouldn't say Lions are one of my teams as such, I like to see them do well, but they don't induce the same passion as my nation or province. When the tour starts however, you can get caught up in it all the same but I was hardly disappointed to see Woodward get his comeuppance in 2005. 2009 was a different story

For me, I would be unhappy with an Ireland side with no Ulster players. But I would still support them with the same passion. It would just really, really hurt but it wouldn't affect my support for my country

For me, it's actually the other way around - I'll probably support Edinburgh and Glasgow no matter what, but for a league where I have no predisposed loyalty, such as the Aviva, I'll support a team that has a number of Scottish players.

Last year, that was Gloucester, and this year, it'll probably be Sale as well.

I don't think club representation changes my support for national team. I would actually be shocked if it impacted anyone else's support for their national team either.

But I completely understand the comment about the Lions and Scotland. The last two Lions tours had very few Scotland players. If I remember, Gordon Bulloch was the only Scot (or at least one of the very few) in the 2005 Lions squad. Now, some of that we know is due to problems in the Scotland set-up and have been discussed on other posts. But two straight tours with little to grab the Scots interests besides replays of Jim Telfer's speech is a problem.

IanBru wrote:For me, it's actually the other way around - I'll probably support Edinburgh and Glasgow no matter what, but for a league where I have no predisposed loyalty, such as the Aviva, I'll support a team that has a number of Scottish players.

Last year, that was Gloucester, and this year, it'll probably be Sale as well.

I can relate to that Ian.

Connacht fans aside, Irish fans are quite lucky in that our teams have large representations in the Ireland squad.

Compare that to an English fan, where the national squad choses from so many teams. I don't think English fans would be any less loyal to England as an Irish fan is to Ireland.

From an Irish perspective, we actually have a skewed perspective. I don't know what it's like to be an Ireland fan without players from my team making a large contribution, but I'd imagine Connacht fans love watching Ireland play just as much as the rest of us. Maybe even moreso, because they never have to worry about the provincial BS that some of the rest of us bring to the matches.

The way it impacts on my support is that I'm going to have an extra desire to see players from the club I support do well - I don't just want to see England win, I want them to win and the Tigers's players be outstanding as well.

I personally see it as I am a Pembrokeshire lad, and Pembrokeshire is part of the Scarlets region, so I am a Scarlet first and formost. Then I am Welsh, so I support Wales, and pay more attention to how the Scarlets players are doing in the Welsh side. Then I am a from the UK, so I will watch the Lions and want them to win, however I pay the most attention to how the Scarlets players in there are doing, followed by how the other Welsh boys are getting on.

It hurts far more if the Scarlets lose than if Wales lose, and more if Wales lose than if the Lions lose, to put it simply.

As much as I like to see Ulster players get Ireland representation, once the players take the field I couldn't care less. I just see XV players in green.

I want to see the best players picked on merit and the National team be successful regardless of what province they come from.

I support the Newcastle Falcons...so no - its just as well it doesnt influence how much i support the England team

The way I look at it is there are ex-Falcons out there, so there is a slight 'pride of ownership' feeling involved.

But at the end of the day, it matters little who is out there, as long as they are willing to put their bodies on the line and spill a little 'claret' for the sake of the team.

roddersm wrote:As much as I like to see Ulster players get Ireland representation, once the players take the field I couldn't care less. I just see XV players in green.

I want to see the best players picked on merit and the National team be successful regardless of what province they come from.

Agreed I don't think he is one of ours or one of theirs.

They are all playing in green and that is good enough for me

Well with Scotland it's tricky because I don't really have a particular preference between Edinburgh or Glasgow, so to me it doesn't matter. I agree with IanBru and Radge in the sense that I'll support teams in the Aviva that include Scottish players.

As for the Lions, I love seeing Scottish representation in the Lions and was extremely proud in 1997 when Scottish players (and coaches) played such a key role in the tour, but I'll always support the Lions regardless.

I guess I can say that I support the national side first, and the club teams second.

Wales is first for me. It wouldnt matter to me if no Ospreys players were picked (that would actually do us a favour in many ways) i would still support wales whole heartedly. I'd be disappointed if welsh players were not playing for the lions, but id end up watching the game and supporting them anyways.

1. Wales (Lions every 4 years)
2. Ospreys
3. Bridgend/Treorchy
4. Pencoed/Bridgend Athletic

Agreed with Geoff and Rodders,

The best example I can give is how I felt before during and after the HC Final this year. As a rabid Munster fan, while not indifferent to the result I approached the game hoping that leinster would win but I would not have been devasted if they had lost.

That changed as soon as the first whistle was blown. I have never cheered as much or been as passionate about a Leinster match before. (in 2008 I was still in shock after the spanking we got in Croker, and as both sides, Leinster or Leicester, are sides I have massive respect for either team winning would have been ok with me) My sister is a Leinster fan and was ever so slightly depressed at half time but I was confident that Leinster could turn it around as a) the had had their chances, were winning the breakdown, would prob have been at least a little better at scrum time post a few pointers and they had much more experience and leadership to rely on. And so it proved to be the case.

A for a top notch Irish side being without any Munster players in the 22, it is not altogether inconceivable post the RWC. Debateable of course but as annoyed as I might be in such a scenario, I would only wish for an Irish win and for each player to have a great game.

Now once, the next Interpro rolls around, I'd want my Munster players to wipe the floor with the guy who in possession of the Green jersey.

No quarter asked or given; as it should be.

Debaters, ditto.

As a Munster fan i was amazed by how much i cared that Leinster won this year. I was always happy if they did well but couldn't believe how much i cared this time.

For some reason i always like to see at least three provinces represented on the Irish team. An Irish team with no Ulster players for example would bother me. It wouldn't seem right. Even if it were full of Munster players i wouldn't feel happy about it. If there were no Munster players i would be horrified initially but then just support the team.

I'm pleased that all four of Wales regions are contributing to Wales, in previous years the Ospreys have pretty much carried the country, but now thanks to some excellent work within the academies at the other regions their players are starting to push for honors too.

Alyn hopefully long may it continue...

Although always happy to see Northampton players doing well and playing for their country I will always be an England fan regardless of if they have Saints players playing or not. I know this is a fact because it was only a couple of years ago when they were in Div 1 and I was still supporting England as I always have done.

Big Lions fan but agree with Notch, it would probably be different if there were no England players in the squad.

Good question, Radge. I do like to see Edinburgh players in Scotland jerseys and Scots in Lions jerseys and, like you, get a bit miffed if they aren't there. However, blind loyalty does take a step aside after the initial disappointment.
On the plus side, if the Lions get pumped with no Scots playing, we can adopt the moral high ground towards the other home nations for bringing shame on us all
What would be an interesting question (probably more so for fans in England) is "do you watch out for and feel loyal to players of other countries?". I was thinking of, say, Glaws fans - do they watch out for and support e.g. Lawson, Strokosch, Hamilton etc when Scotland play Wales?

I always watch england matches supporting the LI players ahead of the others, i'll even support LI players when theyre against england, eg when Stowers nearly scored for Samoa at twickenham i was gutted to see the ball knocked from his hands. So yeah, my loyalties lie with my club

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Does the Representation of your Club have an influence on how passionately you support your National team?

Radge, as an exile, the obvious answer is no. And not many Chiefs even qualify, altho Bryan Rennie and Ally Muldowney might get games for the A team. Plus London Scottish are at too low a level for it to be an issue for me. But agree with your Lions comments - it's always easier to get involved when some of your own countrymen are playing - but love the tours and the folklore regardless

It's good to see players from your own team getting picked but once that bit is over it is all about the men going out in the green. They are all Irish.