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Vlad's got nothing to gain???

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No1Jonesy
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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Thu 30 Jun 2011, 4:32 pm

First topic message reminder :

Apart from the bucks..

Wins..Haye is a blown up cruiserweight that was never proven at heavy!!!....

Loses...He's lost in Sanders and Haye... to the two best heavyweights he's fought and his legacy is shot...

Poor old Vlad!!!

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Thu 30 Jun 2011, 9:48 pm

Didn't avenge Sanders which is a big negative for me especially as big brother did it for him.......

Vlad is no where near Lewis for me..

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Post by Imperial Ghosty Thu 30 Jun 2011, 9:50 pm

There is that Truss but the case is similar despite being on a different level other than that you've got Dempsey not fighting Wills and Paterson not fighting Liston sooner other than we normally get the fights we want in the heavyweight division.

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Post by Young_Towzer Thu 30 Jun 2011, 10:32 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Apart from the bucks..

Wins..Haye is a blown up cruiserweight that was never proven at heavy!!!....

Loses...He's lost in Sanders and Haye... to the two best heavyweights he's fought and his legacy is shot...

Poor old Vlad!!!

who's vlad? then again i didn't know who 'Hoppo' was either, lost to Sanders but destroyed solid unbeaten world champions in Ibragimov, Chagaev and a good young Peter, has beaten everyone at the weight and is very underrated

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Thu 30 Jun 2011, 10:38 pm

Solid World champions.....!!

UNDEMANDING kind of guy aren't you..

Some of us aim a little higher!

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Post by Young_Towzer Thu 30 Jun 2011, 10:45 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Solid World champions.....!!

UNDEMANDING kind of guy aren't you..

Some of us aim a little higher!

Who could he of faced better than Ibragimov in 2008 who was an heavyweight? mmmm
Haye pulled out, Chagaev came in? mmmm
and they were both quality unbeaten world champs
Jackanory, Jackanory, that springs to mind with most of what you say Very Happy

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Thu 30 Jun 2011, 10:49 pm

Well before you say it's jackanory (I imagine that's low life slang for BS) you should ask some of the guys who were around when Holmes, Tyson, Holy, Moorer, Bowe, Witherspoon, Dokes, Lewis etc were fighting......

What quality is!!

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Post by Young_Towzer Thu 30 Jun 2011, 10:53 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Well before you say it's jackanory (I imagine that's low life slang for BS) you should ask some of the guys who were around when Holmes, Tyson, Holy, Moorer, Bowe, Witherspoon, Dokes, Lewis etc were fighting......

What quality is!!

Should i? So it's Wlad's fault that he isn't in the golden crop of an heavyweight div?, i personally think he would of competed in any era, however they aint around today and that isn't his fault. Jackanory means your a tad over far fetched, ie lying, saying about the quality of his opponents, Ibragimov and Chagaev were easily the best available to face at the times he fought them, end of. He aint gonna fight his bro and Haye pulled out. There just cold hard facts them though.

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Post by Imperial Ghosty Thu 30 Jun 2011, 10:54 pm

Think Vitali would have competed during any era without any great distinction but Wlad would be a relative nobody between Ali and Lewis.

Also please don't suggest Ibragimov or Chagaev were quality, they weren't, they may have been the best available but that doesn't make them quality

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Thu 30 Jun 2011, 10:56 pm

Mate before you insult me....

I said he hasn't beaten anybody....never said it was his fault he hadn't..

So please do learn to read....

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Post by Young_Towzer Thu 30 Jun 2011, 10:57 pm

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Think Vitali would have competed during any era without any great distinction but Wlad would be a relative nobody between Ali and Lewis.

Also please don't suggest Ibragimov or Chagaev were quality, they weren't, they may have been the best available but that doesn't make them quality

Yes, i stick by saying they were quality, they were good solid fighters then when they were beaten by Wlad they weren't apparently, doesn't wash with me that. I think we'll have to agree to disagree, i think Wlad competes in any era, he's genuine quality and underrated and has all the physical attributes.

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Post by Young_Towzer Thu 30 Jun 2011, 10:58 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Mate before you insult me....

I said he hasn't beaten anybody....never said it was his fault he hadn't..

So please do learn to read....

Insult you? says a guy who uses the words 'lowlife', calls you a kid if you don't want to watch the don curry boxset with him and is the king of controversial opinions. Hasn't beat anybody? haha do me a favour. Ibragimov, Peter, Chagaev, Chambers, all solid and good quality fighters to name a few, the guy's quality.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Thu 30 Jun 2011, 10:58 pm

Yes we'll all have to disagree with you..

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Post by Imperial Ghosty Thu 30 Jun 2011, 11:00 pm

The physical attributes that include having a chin to rival that of Floyd Paterson perhaps but against the likes of Frazier, Ali, Norton, Lyle, Young he stands very little chance, wouldn't even dare putting him with Foreman or Shavers which could turn out pretty nasty.

Being a solid champion isn't quality in my eyes, quality is the level the likes of the aforementioned were at

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Post by bhb001 Fri 01 Jul 2011, 6:46 am

[quote="TRUSSMAN66"]Not going to apologise for the fact I can converse in Russian and Spanish and am well EDUCATED!!

Entonces, idiota, se llama Wlad cuando esta pelando. No importa su certificado de naciemento

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Post by Sugar Boy Sweetie Fri 01 Jul 2011, 7:07 am

Young_Towzer wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Mate before you insult me....

I said he hasn't beaten anybody....never said it was his fault he hadn't..

So please do learn to read....

Insult you? says a guy who uses the words 'lowlife', calls you a kid if you don't want to watch the don curry boxset with him and is the king of controversial opinions. Hasn't beat anybody? haha do me a favour. Ibragimov, Peter, Chagaev, Chambers, all solid and good quality fighters to name a few, the guy's quality.

They are solid fighters of this era Towzer but let's be honest, they'd be little more than journeymen in most others. I like wlad, he has solid fundamentals and good physical attributes, and it's not his fault the quality of his era is weak. But I'd have to say I doubt if he'd be a champion in another era, and he certainly wouldn't be so dominant. I think vitali competes well in any era as he's a hard nights work for anyone, but I feel if wlad were facing more well conditioned, quicker more skilful opponents on a more regular basis he'd come undone more often - he only knows one way to fight and it involves keeping opponents away from him. He'd be ranked, and his size would give anyone a puzzle, but the truth is the quality of his opposition has flattered him somewhat.
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Post by ian_jamsie Fri 01 Jul 2011, 8:23 am

Sometimes Truss I feel you could start an arguement with yourself in a hall of mirrors.

He spells his own now Wlad not Vlad. Some guy changed his name to Playstation 2, just because he was christened Tony, that doesn't mean that is his name now.

It is Wlad.

By the way he has the WBA title to gain. The Klitscho's are intent on controling all the world heavy titles.

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Post by No1Jonesy Fri 01 Jul 2011, 9:47 am

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Beginning to miss.... fightnews, d4 and davidemore..

Mother didn't want me to leave home.. said England was full of dumbasses...

Should have listened to her...

Then feel free to leave this country and take ya egotistical, mug featured boat race back to America to ya skanky donkey, hillbilly, trailor park trash mother

Muppet

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Post by No1Jonesy Fri 01 Jul 2011, 9:48 am

y is a$s substituted for donkey lol - brilliant

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Post by Michaels, Sean Fri 01 Jul 2011, 9:49 am

No1Jonesy wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Beginning to miss.... fightnews, d4 and davidemore..

Mother didn't want me to leave home.. said England was full of dumbasses...

Should have listened to her...

Then feel free to leave this country and take ya egotistical, mug featured boat race back to America to ya skanky donkey, hillbilly, trailor park trash mother

Muppet

Very succint
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Post by Rowley Fri 01 Jul 2011, 9:52 am

No1Jonesy wrote:y is a$s substituted for donkey lol - brilliant

Do not use L*L Jonesy, you are better than that.

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Post by Michaels, Sean Fri 01 Jul 2011, 9:53 am

Rowley you don't really have a GSOH do you?
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Post by Union Cane Fri 01 Jul 2011, 9:56 am

UULTM
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Post by Rowley Fri 01 Jul 2011, 9:56 am

Michaels, Sean wrote:Rowley you don't really have a GSOH do you?

No

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Post by No1Jonesy Fri 01 Jul 2011, 9:58 am

rowley wrote:
No1Jonesy wrote:y is a$s substituted for donkey lol - brilliant

Do not use L*L Jonesy, you are better than that.

Apologies - is still early

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Post by beastfromthesoutheast Fri 01 Jul 2011, 10:15 am

If Wlad does win, he's unified the titles so that all the major belts are in the family, to me that's pretty good for his legacy.

Does anyone know who the judges are going to be?

Is is Vladimir Lenin or Wladimir Lenin?

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Post by Mind the windows Tino. Fri 01 Jul 2011, 10:18 am

No1Jonesy wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Beginning to miss.... fightnews, d4 and davidemore..

Mother didn't want me to leave home.. said England was full of dumbasses...

Should have listened to her...

Then feel free to leave this country and take ya egotistical, mug featured boat race back to America to ya skanky donkey, hillbilly, trailor park trash mother

Muppet

So, just so I am clear, you want Trussman to leave?

Jonesy, you the type of person I can't abide. Always sitting on the fence and never saying what you really mean.

Mind the windows Tino.
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Post by Union Cane Fri 01 Jul 2011, 10:20 am

beastfromthesoutheast wrote:If Wlad does win, he's unified the titles so that all the major belts are in the family, to me that's pretty good for his legacy.

He won't have unified the titles though, he won't have the WBC.
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Post by Rowley Fri 01 Jul 2011, 10:22 am

Is is Vladimir Lenin or Wladimir Lenin?
________________________________________________________

It is Vladimir, however that does not automatically mean Wlad is spelling his name incorrectly, there are names that sound and are pronounced the same that are spelled differently. An example is Ian St John and Iain Dowie, both sound exactly the same, however the different spelling does not mean one of them does not know how to spell his own name.

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Post by beastfromthesoutheast Fri 01 Jul 2011, 10:32 am

Union, like I said, he's unifying the belts so that him and Vitali hold all of them for the first time - pure domination of the heavyweight division. It's obviously a weak division but that's still an achievement. The less champions in a division the better.

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Post by No1Jonesy Fri 01 Jul 2011, 10:35 am

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:
No1Jonesy wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Beginning to miss.... fightnews, d4 and davidemore..

Mother didn't want me to leave home.. said England was full of dumbasses...

Should have listened to her...

Then feel free to leave this country and take ya egotistical, mug featured boat race back to America to ya skanky donkey, hillbilly, trailor park trash mother

Muppet

So, just so I am clear, you want Trussman to leave?

Jonesy, you the type of person I can't abide. Always sitting on the fence and never saying what you really mean.

Yep, you've got it in one.... I absolutely never say what I mean or have an opinion

What I meant really was: Aaaah poor trussy wussy come and enjoy the hospitality of my fine home and lavish and the English luxuries whilst witnessing Wlad v Haye in HD. After that we can eloquently discuss the down falls of the English heritage and how much better the Americans are and how well they have adapted the English language.

Although it will be a short conversation though because more population does not mean you're better - just means you have more people you can sacrifice in war and to prove their might in this way they champion friendly fire Wink

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Post by Union Cane Fri 01 Jul 2011, 10:46 am

beastfromthesoutheast wrote:Union, like I said, he's unifying the belts so that him and Vitali hold all of them for the first time - pure domination of the heavyweight division. It's obviously a weak division but that's still an achievement. The less champions in a division the better.

He's unifying so that two people hold all the belts?

What?

I can't agree that this is unifying the belts, its like saying that as it stands now Wlad & Vitali & David together are the unified champion.

Hopkins, Shumenov, Cloud and Cleverly are the unified lightheavy champion.

Its crazy talk.
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Post by No1Jonesy Fri 01 Jul 2011, 10:53 am

Union Cane wrote:
beastfromthesoutheast wrote:Union, like I said, he's unifying the belts so that him and Vitali hold all of them for the first time - pure domination of the heavyweight division. It's obviously a weak division but that's still an achievement. The less champions in a division the better.

He's unifying so that two people hold all the belts?

What?

I can't agree that this is unifying the belts, its like saying that as it stands now Wlad & Vitali & David together are the unified champion.

Hopkins, Shumenov, Cloud and Cleverly are the unified lightheavy champion.

Its crazy talk.

Must agree with Union here - there cannot be 2 or more unified champs

I can see where you're trying to go here but my advice is to stop, admit you have worded it wrong and change it then trying to justify your first mistake which is very Trussman like

If i'm correct in thinking your point is, Wlad is trying to ascertain the last portion of the heavyweight title not currently held by a Klistchko so that their family name is the full stop at this current heavyweight scene?

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Post by beastfromthesoutheast Fri 01 Jul 2011, 10:57 am

Vitali and Dave arent unified champions as they hold one belt, unification is combining two or more belts. You may be thinking of undisputed champion

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Post by beastfromthesoutheast Fri 01 Jul 2011, 10:58 am

Have an example http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/news/story?id=3261735

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Post by Michaels, Sean Fri 01 Jul 2011, 10:58 am

I thought if you had 3 of the belts you were undisputed champ. Is that different to unified?
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Post by HumanWindmill Fri 01 Jul 2011, 11:04 am

Union Cane wrote:
beastfromthesoutheast wrote:Union, like I said, he's unifying the belts so that him and Vitali hold all of them for the first time - pure domination of the heavyweight division. It's obviously a weak division but that's still an achievement. The less champions in a division the better.

He's unifying so that two people hold all the belts?

What?

I can't agree that this is unifying the belts, its like saying that as it stands now Wlad & Vitali & David together are the unified champion.

Hopkins, Shumenov, Cloud and Cleverly are the unified lightheavy champion.

Its crazy talk.

That's pretty much what I was driving at with my earlier post.

We can debate for ever and a day the quality of the two Klitschkos but the fact remains that, in an ideal world, they wouldn't have been brothers and they would have needed to face each other in order to gain consensus acceptance as to who was the dominant heavy of the era and how he shapes up against the legends of the division.

For what it's worth, I believe that Vitali has been the real deal and that he would have been a tough customer for many of the nailed on greats, although there are some whose styles would have made life extremely difficult for him, also. I've never been too sold on Wlad - though I fear he will beat Haye - and I've always felt that, at the highest level, he's just a bit too vulnerable to rub shoulders with the legends.

Not everybody is given to misty eyed nostalgia, and the concept of ' lineal ' champion is always a bit dubious, but I'm afraid I'm one of those who wishes that we could return to something at least akin to one champion per division, even if there are several governing bodies. Tyson gets a bad rap in cyberspace, but I've always felt that it was to his enormous credit that he took the division by the scruff of the neck and cleaned it up.

I'm rooting for Haye, simply because I feel that the Klitschko duopoly needs to be broken.

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Post by Union Cane Fri 01 Jul 2011, 11:09 am

beastfromthesoutheast wrote:Vitali and Dave arent unified champions as they hold one belt, unification is combining two or more belts. You may be thinking of undisputed champion

So by that reckoning Wlad is already unified champion, which kind of invalidates your own argument?
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Post by beastfromthesoutheast Fri 01 Jul 2011, 11:15 am

Union, my point was that if Wlad wins, all the major belts will then be held by a the Klitschkos (this is clearly the point I was making Union). He already is a unified champion, and this is another unification bout.


Last edited by beastfromthesoutheast on Fri 01 Jul 2011, 11:31 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Union Cane Fri 01 Jul 2011, 11:21 am

The belts will be held by two Klitsckos, not a Klitschko.

I give up.
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Post by Rowley Fri 01 Jul 2011, 11:25 am

I'm rooting for Haye, simply because I feel that the Klitschko duopoly needs to be broken.
____________________________________________________

Whilst I agree with this I also think every so often is is necessary for a fighter to come along and remind people that you do not have to be 7ft 8 and three quarters of a ton to be competitive in the heavyweight division, a mindset fans often buy into. Am not sure Haye is the man to do this but do feel someone could do with doing so fairly soon.

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Post by beastfromthesoutheast Fri 01 Jul 2011, 11:28 am

I agree with everything you're saying there windmill. Vitali was the real deal, his fight with Lewis proved that, but if Haye wins on Saturday and those two end up fighting then I think Vitali will get knocked out. Not being able to put away Shannon Briggs indicates that he should hang up the gloves in the near future.

If Haye wins, he'll be off the scene by his birthday leaving Wlad to clean up again, unfortunately meaning we'll go back to having the heavyweight division being dominated by a boring tall guy once again.

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Post by HumanWindmill Fri 01 Jul 2011, 11:29 am

rowley wrote:I'm rooting for Haye, simply because I feel that the Klitschko duopoly needs to be broken.
____________________________________________________

Whilst I agree with this I also think every so often is is necessary for a fighter to come along and remind people that you do not have to be 7ft 8 and three quarters of a ton to be competitive in the heavyweight division, a mindset fans often buy into. Am not sure Haye is the man to do this but do feel someone could do with doing so fairly soon.

That's another very good reason, jeff, and also another reason why I wish, even though I was never his biggest fan, that Tyson would still be here snarling and champing at the bit. He'd chop down most of today's lot as if they would be old trees.

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Post by HumanWindmill Fri 01 Jul 2011, 11:34 am

beastfromthesoutheast wrote:I agree with everything you're saying there windmill. Vitali was the real deal, his fight with Lewis proved that, but if Haye wins on Saturday and those two end up fighting then I think Vitali will get knocked out. Not being able to put away Shannon Briggs indicates that he should hang up the gloves in the near future.

If Haye wins, he'll be off the scene by his birthday leaving Wlad to clean up again, unfortunately meaning we'll go back to having the heavyweight division being dominated by a boring tall guy once again.

Have to say that I was a wee bit puzzled that he made such hard work of Briggs, beast.

You may well be right about Vitali v Haye, though I'd take the opposite view, since I'd expect Vitali to be tough enough to walk Haye down. Just a gut feeling, though, and I certainly wouldn't argue the point too strenuously.

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Post by Rowley Fri 01 Jul 2011, 11:36 am

Windy am sure you know my views on Tyson by now but have to agree wholeheartedly that I would happily give one of my kidneys to have a 20 year old Tyson on today's heavyweight scene. One can only begin to imagine how he would handle the likes of Solis, Thompson and their ilk.

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Post by HumanWindmill Fri 01 Jul 2011, 11:39 am

rowley wrote:Windy am sure you know my views on Tyson by now but have to agree wholeheartedly that I would happily give one of my kidneys to have a 20 year old Tyson on today's heavyweight scene. One can only begin to imagine how he would handle the likes of Solis, Thompson and their ilk.

TIMBER !!!!!

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Post by Imperial Ghosty Fri 01 Jul 2011, 11:42 am

I for one would be embarrassed to see the ease with which Tyson would obliterate the heavyweight scene today, the K bros included

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Post by BALTIMORA Fri 01 Jul 2011, 12:00 pm

Union Cane wrote:
beastfromthesoutheast wrote:Union, like I said, he's unifying the belts so that him and Vitali hold all of them for the first time - pure domination of the heavyweight division. It's obviously a weak division but that's still an achievement. The less champions in a division the better.

He's unifying so that two people hold all the belts?

What?

I can't agree that this is unifying the belts, its like saying that as it stands now Wlad & Vitali & David together are the unified champion.

Hopkins, Shumenov, Cloud and Cleverly are the unified lightheavy champion.

Its crazy talk.

Bingo. Pick the top several fighters in any division and bingo: co-unified champions. Bloody ridiculous carry-on.

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Post by JACKMAGIC Fri 01 Jul 2011, 12:01 pm

I had a dream last night that Haye won in round 5 with the ref stopping the fight. Wlad was crying; although in the dream I knew it wasn't because he had lost...and he was speaking in Spanish for some reason...

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Post by HumanWindmill Fri 01 Jul 2011, 12:05 pm

JACKMAGIC wrote:I had a dream last night that Haye won in round 5 with the ref stopping the fight. Wlad was crying; although in the dream I knew it wasn't because he had lost...and he was speaking in Spanish for some reason...

Let me guess, Jack. You'd just watched Duran v Leonard II, no ?

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Post by JACKMAGIC Fri 01 Jul 2011, 12:10 pm

HumanWindmill wrote:
JACKMAGIC wrote:I had a dream last night that Haye won in round 5 with the ref stopping the fight. Wlad was crying; although in the dream I knew it wasn't because he had lost...and he was speaking in Spanish for some reason...

Let me guess, Jack. You'd just watched Duran v Leonard II, no ?

Suprisingly no; but now I think of it, I did walk into my living room to find the missus watching 'The Mask of Zorro'. Mmmm.....

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