Nadals Strategy

In yesterdays match with Murray Nadal had a clear statagy. He exposed Murrays weak forehand and targeted it relentlessly. Simple, effective, brilliant and cruel... In the end it was difficult not to feel sorry for Murray. He looked shell shocked. He didn't appear to know what had hit him. Maybe he should ask Federer?

hawkeye wrote:In yesterdays match with Murray Nadal had a clear statagy. He exposed Murrays weak forehand and targeted it relentlessly. Simple, effective, brilliant and cruel... In the end it was difficult not to feel sorry for Murray. He looked shell shocked. He didn't appear to know what had hit him. Maybe he should ask Federer?

And what advice is Federer likely to give considering he has a similar problem beating him!

I'm not sure about advice... but he could tell Murray what hit him!

He did OK in that 1st set, he's just got to find a way to keep that going for 5 sets.

erictheblueuk wrote:He did OK in that 1st set, he's just got to find a way to keep that going for 5 sets.

He needs to improve his forehand!

It wasnt just his FH, once Nadal got near 100% he's almost impossible to live with because he moves the players around all over the place. Dont forget Nadal's serve was pretty huge yesterday too, and he was hitting hard shots into the corners - as I say virtually impossible to live with. Murray plays so well for a set but he's not able to sustain that peak - who is? Not many can sustain peak, point in, point out for 5 sets - requires a mind like a fortress. Had Murray not slipped at 2-1 in the 2nd it probably would have been a few games later because he was playing at an artificially high level for him using a risky go all-out strategy...

His forehand is improving and his game is good enough to beat most of the tour players with the exception of two of the games most successful players plus the rising Novak, and we are talking slams here as the Masters seem to show a different story!

To beat the likes of Nadal you would either hope that his form dips during the match for whatever reason, or you have to play lights out tennis if you want to win.

Tell me how many players can do it, even Federer is now finding it difficult.

On the other hand Nadal needs to improve his BH. Andy stayed aggressive throughout the match and maybe if he went defensive just so he could keep the points ticking over, he might have been able to regain the 1st form. Nadal just showed why he is the best player in the world at the moment. Able to up his game to levels that no-one on their best day can touch.

That's where Nadal is the strongest in that he can seem to raise his game at will. And the fract he also can still improve alot is somewhat depressing for the other guys!

Certainly the FH along the line is the weak one. The crosscourt was ok, though lacked proper pace.

To beat Nadal, you don;t need to hit winners all the time, you need to show him that you can ....that is enough to make him worry affect his anticipation and mouvement.

Murray in that first set hit a few good cross court winners and also a couple of inside out FH. That leaves Nadal guessing and takes a lot of his mouvement away. This is why he said famously once when playing Nalbandian, I am scared of his BH (and now Djoko and Davydenko have this role).

Yesterday unfortunetly Murray was only playing Nadal's BH so that took teh fear out of Nadal allowing him even to turn his BH into FH even and dictating a not so mobile Murray.

Djoko should do a better job of keeping Nadal on his toes.

lydian wrote:That's where Nadal is the strongest in that he can seem to raise his game at will. And the fract he also can still improve alot is somewhat depressing for the other guys!

He wasn;t very willing then the last 4 times he played Djoko! LOL!

Nadal needs to even play better on the backhand against Djokovic especially as Djokovic will use the DTL backhand to Nadal's alot. Murray for me tested Nadal's backhand too early on and once Nadal improved on it, it become devasta ting to Murray's forehand. Djokovic has a far better forehand than Murray so should be able to target Nadal's backhand successful.

lydian wrote:It wasnt just his FH, once Nadal got near 100% he's almost impossible to live with because he moves the players around all over the place. Dont forget Nadal's serve was pretty huge yesterday too, and he was hitting hard shots into the corners - as I say virtually impossible to live with. Murray plays so well for a set but he's not able to sustain that peak - who is? Not many can sustain peak, point in, point out for 5 sets - requires a mind like a fortress. Had Murray not slipped at 2-1 in the 2nd it probably would have been a few games later because he was playing at an artificially high level for him using a risky go all-out strategy...

I agree in that first set Murray was playing a very high risk game that would have been difficult to sustain. However later in the match he lost so many points with weak forehands. Not high risk forehands that he missed! The result of it being targeted. Nadal made him hit from the foehand repeatedly and it inevitably broke down.

Some of the forehands that Murray missed where short and at the centre of the court. Most players would have killed a ball like that. Not many players would have gone against instinct to place balls in that position. Nadal knew what he was doing. Of course the cruel thing is that once Murrays forehand began to break down his confidence and other parts of his game would be affected.

For me, I don't think any other player past or present has as much variety on the forehand on grass as Nadal. He seems to play any kind of shot with it and it's going to be very difficult for Djokovic but he is very strong on both wings. I think the net game will be crucial this match. DJOkovic is a good volleyer but Nadal is without a doubt in the top 3 volleyers in the world.

Murray can't really rally with a hard hitter, what with his rather weak loopy forehands. His serve is also not consistent enough especially when he's not confident or frustrated.

Djokovic would be a different proposition for Nadal.

The best thing about Djoko is that once he start reading opponent serve, it keeps coming back and there are no free points to be earn.

Djoko himself has to serve well to win the match, if he does that then he should win. I would love to see him win this Wimby, although my first choice was Andy but even Djoko will do.

Murray has his weakest spot in the forehand side, there is no question. More importantly he seems to be bothered every time he's missing an easy FH a that's affecting his confidence. Other players like Edberg Wilander and to a certain degree Sampras could come to terms with weak FH and win slams. Furthermore Murray's service consistently let him down on the big matches. This is a powerful shot but, technically, with some gaps that make it difficult to perform consistently.

The overall impression is that the recent wins Djokovic has been able to score against Nadal were not the consequence of Nadal dropping his level but rather of Djokovic stepping up his own game. If that didn't occur, Nadal would have just kept winning nearly every single match, as he's still far ahead every other players except Djokvic.

lydian wrote:It wasnt just his FH, once Nadal got near 100% he's almost impossible to live with because he moves the players around all over the place. Dont forget Nadal's serve was pretty huge yesterday too, and he was hitting hard shots into the corners - as I say virtually impossible to live with. Murray plays so well for a set but he's not able to sustain that peak - who is? Not many can sustain peak, point in, point out for 5 sets - requires a mind like a fortress. Had Murray not slipped at 2-1 in the 2nd it probably would have been a few games later because he was playing at an artificially high level for him using a risky go all-out strategy...

I do think though that if Murray had won a break to go 3-1 in the 2nd set, he might very well have had enough to take that set, because at the time Nadal was not playing at his best. After that who knows - you have to think Nadal would have got his game going, but Murray by that point would have believed he really could win the match and so it would have been a cracker potentially. I don't berate Murray for missing that smash at 1-2 15-30?, as they all make errors, but he then went on a self punishment spree and lost a whole host of games - after this he was behind and playing a great player in great form - it was over.

I always thought Murray had a game with better potential than Djoko's, once he mastered it of course. Unfortunately now at times he has mastered is game, but his new problem is mastering himself. I don't know if he can do this, because you are who you are to a large degree.

Tenez wrote:

lydian wrote:That's where Nadal is the strongest in that he can seem to raise his game at will. And the fract he also can still improve alot is somewhat depressing for the other guys!

He wasn't very willing then the last 4 times he played Djoko! LOL!

But he was quite willing at the USO 2010 wasn't he? Djokos best surface and the twos last slam meeting.

At the end of the day Djoko played fantastically to beat Nadal 4 times this year - fantastically. However i would expect NAdals will to win in a slam match to be somewhat higher than the finals he has played Djoko this year and he has more time in a 5 set match to find his high gears. Djoko on the other hand has been a bit mentally brittle at times (similar, but to a lesser extent than Murray) and so over a 5 set match i sometimes feel hes more likely to throw in a period than in a series of 3 set matches.

That said Djoko does he the game, the form and probably the belief to take a great game to NAdal tomorrow, so if he wins it will be well deserved.

I have to say that it shows how good Djokos year has been that even if he loses to NAdal, he'd still be No.1 even though rafa has been to every MAsters final and would have won 2/3 slams this year.

Tom_____ wrote:At the end of the day Djoko played fantastically to beat Nadal 4 times this year -

Disagree. Djoko was nackered last time they played. He just did what Murray did in that first set yesterday. Return well and engage in rallies and choose the right time to pull the trigger.

THat's the key. Djoko doesn't need to play fantastically to beat Nadal. He needs to stay calm and keep rallying. Then it's Nadal who is short of ideas cause his game is not as physically economic and therefore feels the needs to pull the trigger first and take some risk...which is what he doesn't like. Exactly what happens v Davydenko too. Those 2 make him run right and left and Nadal requires a huge effort to win a point. That makes him nervous and mentally weaker.

I hope Djoko won;t be too nervous in that final....if he stays calm, it's his. A real test of his metal.

Mentally weaker? Lol, are talking about Federer here?

hawkeye wrote:In yesterdays match with Murray Nadal had a clear statagy. He exposed Murrays weak forehand and targeted it relentlessly. Simple, effective, brilliant and cruel... In the end it was difficult not to feel sorry for Murray. He looked shell shocked. He didn't appear to know what had hit him. Maybe he should ask Federer?

Murray should have asked Tsonga for advice on how to beat Nadal on grass as Tsonga did this at Queens two or so weeks ago.

Yes to be honest Nadal was cream-crackered from the clay season and leaving from Paris straight for London...everyone could see the guy had lost a lot of sharpness during the preceding match against Stepanek.

gboycottnut wrote:

hawkeye wrote:In yesterdays match with Murray Nadal had a clear statagy. He exposed Murrays weak forehand and targeted it relentlessly. Simple, effective, brilliant and cruel... In the end it was difficult not to feel sorry for Murray. He looked shell shocked. He didn't appear to know what had hit him. Maybe he should ask Federer?

Murray should have asked Tsonga for advice on how to beat Nadal on grass as Tsonga did this at Queens two or so weeks ago.

Tsonga beat an exhausted Nadal then subsequently got "Beaten on Grass" by Murray.

Maybe the answer from Tsonga would have been just hope he is exhausted before you play him like he was for me

I must say that this thread really makes Tenez look good.