Wales & Scotland to join Ireland in leaving the U20 World Cup

Wales and Scotland have sides with Ireland and are set to leave the annual U20 World Cup tournament.
Player welfare issues, cost, timing of the competition, and the fact 5 games are scheduled in a 17 day period are the reasons they are withdrawing. Usa, Canada and Samoa have all pulled out in recent years citing similar grievances with the competition.

What year can you tell me Samoa pulled out of the comp?

Samoa were 'relegated' in 2010 and played in the IRB Junior World Rugby Trophy this year.

http://www.irb.com/jwc/archive/tcode=10320/season=2010/overview.html

MBTGOG wrote:What year can you tell me Samoa pulled out of the comp?

I'm just repeating whats written in this weeks Rugby Paper (Welsh edition).

That's why I think this story is quite dodgy. It's just one freelance journalist bandying it around and all the facts are vague or just plain wrong.

The IRB reduced the number of teams in the JWC and some lazy journalist got it wrong

I believe the competition does need tweaked to make it less demanding on the players e.g. games over a longer period. It will/would be a shame if the these teams pull out, but make no mistake, it will be their loss.

Under the current structure I can't see any benefit in this tournament for Ireland. It is definitely to the young professionals gain to start managing their careers without this pointless interruption to their development.

Teams are clearly making too many changes between games. They seem to be putting their second teams out against teams they dont think they can beat leading to some very odd score lines.

Or was it sheltering the egos of the first teams from a moral crushing spanking?

With five games in such an short space of time, you have to rotate. Anyway, it's good to expose as many players as possible to this level of rugby.

In an ideal world, think Ireland should continue to compete, but shouldn't bring players who have already made the breakthrough to their provinces first team and should bring more players.

I think the IRB need to scale back the tournament to be honest, and if that means some teams need to withdraw to get the message across I'm all for it.

AlynDavies wrote:Teams are clearly making too many changes between games. They seem to be putting their second teams out against teams they dont think they can beat leading to some very odd score lines.

Teams HAVE to play EVERY player in their squad during the "group stages", it's a tournament rule.

Pretty sure they don't have to play them all in the the "group stages" Nottins. Every team is guaranteed another two games after the groups so they could play them in one of those instead. Anyway, that's not really important.

Honestly, having five games in a period of just over two weeks (June 10th-26th) is completely ridiculous. You don't see fully fledged professional teams cope with this kind of schedule so why should we expect 20 year old's to do so at the end of their season in the blistering heat of Italy (or Argentina last summer)? When was the last time you heard Toulouse, Leicester or Munster putting up with that schedule? Sure, when it snows games might be re-arranged so you'd have two in one week, but nothing like five in two weeks. In saying that, it will be a pity if the three of us do say goodbye to the tournament. There's no doubt that this tournament is a career highlight for most of the kids that play in it. A very small percentage go on to the senior team. All it would take is for the IRB to do a little tweaking and all parties would be satisfied. If cost is an issue, do away with teams playing after the group stages or else only hold it every two years, but do something. It suddenly becomes a nine team world cup with us out of it so hopefully it will lead to the IRB improving player welfare.

While all teams suffer the same player welfare danger, it's right that the IRFU looks after our smaller player base. It may or may not be our loss leaving, but it's definitely arguable that the likes of Gilroy, Marshall, Conway and Hanrahan would benefit more from being involved with their provinces pre-season next week, instead of having to nurse the wounds of the IRB junior world cup which they're currently doing - albeit on some beach somewhere.

mrsuperclear wrote:Pretty sure they don't have to play them all in the the "group stages" Nottins. Every team is guaranteed another two games after the groups so they could play them in one of those instead. Anyway, that's not really important.

Honestly, having five games in a period of just over two weeks (June 10th-26th) is completely ridiculous. You don't see fully fledged professional teams cope with this kind of schedule so why should we expect 20 year old's to do so at the end of their season in the blistering heat of Italy (or Argentina last summer)? When was the last time you heard Toulouse, Leicester or Munster putting up with that schedule? Sure, when it snows games might be re-arranged so you'd have two in one week, but nothing like five in two weeks. In saying that, it will be a pity if the three of us do say goodbye to the tournament. There's no doubt that this tournament is a career highlight for most of the kids that play in it. A very small percentage go on to the senior team. All it would take is for the IRB to do a little tweaking and all parties would be satisfied. If cost is an issue, do away with teams playing after the group stages or else only hold it every two years, but do something. It suddenly becomes a nine team world cup with us out of it so hopefully it will lead to the IRB improving player welfare.

While all teams suffer the same player welfare danger, it's right that the IRFU looks after our smaller player base. It may or may not be our loss leaving, but it's definitely arguable that the likes of Gilroy, Marshall, Conway and Hanrahan would benefit more from being involved with their provinces pre-season next week, instead of having to nurse the wounds of the IRB junior world cup which they're currently doing - albeit on some beach somewhere.

I disagree, how could it be better for them to be running fitness drills at the start of preseason training than playing competitive matches with and against their contemporaries? These aren’t jaded internationals who have had a long career and don’t need the extra game time. They are young, inexperienced and hungry players who need match time to develop their games . They can beasted in training/ bond with their provincial team mates any time of the year.

I do agree that the tournament is run over too tight a schedule, but I also think people are making a little too much of the danger to the players. How many serious injuries have there been to players in the history of the tournament? I know some people might view me as a reckless moron for taking this view, but I'm not completely unsympathetic to the potential dangers to players. I hope that IRB/ teams can sort this out satisfactorily.

No doubts we all agree this comp is too compressed. But, in my opinion, this is all about money. Seems like all direct cost to the Unions. So Unions want this over with fast (too compressed over too few days), and can now pull out citing other reasons than cost.

Cumbrian wrote:I disagree, how could it be better for them to be running fitness drills at the start of preseason training than playing competitive matches with and against their contemporaries? These aren’t jaded internationals who have had a long career and don’t need the extra game time. They are young, inexperienced and hungry players who need match time to develop their games . They can beasted in training/ bond with their provincial team mates any time of the year.

I do agree that the tournament is run over too tight a schedule, but I also think people are making a little too much of the danger to the players. How many serious injuries have there been to players in the history of the tournament? I know some people might view me as a reckless moron for taking this view, but I'm not completely unsympathetic to the potential dangers to players. I hope that IRB/ teams can sort this out satisfactorily.

I deliberately used those specific players to make a point Cumbrian. Gilroy was the top Irish try scorer in the Magners last year and the other three will have very realistic goals to be involved in the provinces while the main players are away at the world cup. Marshall especially looks like the real deal. Pre-season 100% is a very important time of the year and those specific players, as well as others, need it to be ready for the start of the new season. You asked yourself Cumbrian: "how could it be better for them to be running fitness drills at the start of preseason training than playing competitive matches with and against their contemporaries?" Missing competitive matches is exactly what will happen after going to Italy. Since they won't be involved at the start of the pre-season, they probably won't be starting the season or, if they do, they will be jaded very soon. I honestly belief the junior world cup stifles those specific players development. On the other hand, for players who realistically have no chance of making the provinces squad, (senior world cup or not) the tournament is very valuable for them.

It's not about the fact that there haven't been serious injuries Cumbrian, it's about the high likelihood and potential for serious injuries. Action rather than reaction. As well as that, as I said, this tight schedule will all add up. They're young players who completed a full season before the hectic tournament and now they go straight back into pre-season in a few of weeks. I don't care how young they are, that adds up and they will be exhausted by Christmas, never mind by the end of the season. In saying all of that, in my ideal world the IRB would make it a less hectic schedule and the IRFU would leave already established players at home for any future tournament. In that way we all get what we want.

Tournament matches in June will affect them playing competitive matches next season? The Magners League doesn’t start until September. I’ll tell you this for nothing, it won’t prevent the English lads like Farrell, Launchbury, Joseph and Thomas from getting competitive game time.

I’d dispute the fact that the lads you’ve named have had a full season of rugby too. Gilroy I will let you have, he played 14 but the rest? Luke Marshall played seven times last season starting three times, Conway 8, I can’t find the number of times Hanrahan played in the Magners league, but since he wasn’t part of the first team so I doubt that it’s many. You make them seem like soft lads who need wrapped up in cotton wool. That’s not the impression I got from them when they played England. I’m sure they need careful management, but I’m also sure they will be raring to go at the start of next season and will want as much game time as possible.

There is always a risk when you go on the pitch, and perhaps this does increase the risk, but I don’t think the danger should be overestimated. If we start going down that road, where do we stop? Again, I will say that I do believe the tournament should be extended over a greater period of time.

I think this tournament is worth missing a couple of weeks of pre-season training for, you don’t. It doesn’t look like we’ll agree on this. So I’ll finish by telling you, that you are wrong!

Can you provide a link?

I actually think the provincial coaches will be very happy to see these guys get these games getting to play such a high standard of rugby.

I wouldn't be at all unhappy about it if it wasn't a World Cup year. The same way there aren't summer tours in a RWC Cup year, there shouldn't be a JWC; or at least we shouldn't enter it.

By the way, does anyone know how the tours are going to work next season with the extended Super Rugby season? NH pre-season starts before the Super Rugby playoffs are finished! Not exactly too much time for a tour...

The fixture list is very much over-burdened. I'm concerned about the return of longer tours and the Junior World Cup because I believe this is going to have a knock-on effect on the strength of sides we see in the Pro12. The balance is somewhat wrong right now.

Player welfare doesn't necessarily equate with risk of injury.

Ireland will still play during the normal season in the more sensible schedule of the 6N and that will teach them as much as they need about playing at that level of competition.

Notch wrote:By the way, does anyone know how the tours are going to work next season with the extended Super Rugby season? NH pre-season starts before the Super Rugby playoffs are finished! Not exactly too much time for a tour...

Tours have been extended to three weeks now minimum, we play 3 midweek provinces and 3 tests in 3 weeks!
I can see Wales and Ireland getting smashed, because we simply dont have that kind of depth and a lot of players not touring like in the 90's.
Scotland at least had the common sense not to do it. The worrying thing is the tours are now set till 2018 so we cant alter things. Bloody IRB pandering to New Zealand again at our expense.

But when are they even going to be? The Super Rugby final is on the 9th July, pre-season games in the NH start in August! Ridiculous.

We can't possibly have tours that size. It's insane.