Haye Wlad Post Fight Reaction

First topic message reminder :

So that's that. I scored the fight 118-109 to wlad, giving haye only the 3rd and the point deduction. Hayes reflexes looked sharp in terms of his upper body movement, however he was unable to overcome klitschkos size and reach advantages. 

I thought wlad boxed a good fight, he dominated aggressively, worked the jab well enough to keep haye at bay but not effectively enough to break him down with it. Landed some good right hands. Haye was a bit too passive, but I think he was surprised at how quick wlad can move, especially moving back out of range of Hayes attacks. Add this to the size disparity and it led to a lot of missed power shots and off balance moments for haye. David also spent too much time complaining to the ref. 

It was the right decision, the better man won and you have to give wlad his credit - he's very difficult to beat, uses his size cleverly and is a fine athlete and worthy champion. 

Morning everyone
guess there's been a lot of kneejerk reactions out there about the fight. Now, for whatever reason the fight didn't live up to anyone's expectations, could there be an element of "styles make fights" here, esp. considering Wladimir's constant ring tactics. Is there really amongst the complaints any comparison with the likes of, say, Tyson v Tucker and Tyson v "Bonecrusher" Smith where there were clear cases of ring survival, or was it always going to be like Lewis v Holyfield where it becomes more absorbing than exciting due to the two protagonists being essentially at the top level?

BALTIMORA wrote:

JDandfries wrote:
I'm pretty sure, Chisroa, Fury, Harrison all would have lost by an equally wide UD, and not been KO'd

Are you out of your *%$@ing mind?!?

No I am not, Haye showed so little ambition, and had those three showed that lack of intent, they probably would have got through 12 aswell!

Going to merge this to the post fight reaction thread mate, just so you know where it is.

JDandfries wrote:

BALTIMORA wrote:

JDandfries wrote:
I'm pretty sure, Chisroa, Fury, Harrison all would have lost by an equally wide UD, and not been KO'd

Are you out of your *%$@ing mind?!?

No I am not, Haye showed so little ambition, and had those three showed that lack of intent, they probably would have got through 12 aswell!

Harrison especially, but probably the other two also, would have been flattened inside twelve.

oxring wrote:The idea that Haye's "natural fight" is to throw everything at his opponent for the first three rounds is a bit of a myth tbh. He plans to retire in October - lets look back at his career:

At HW Haye has fought
(Bonin, 34, a man who's career highlight was a loss to Audley)
Barrett (37)
Valuev (36/7)
Ruiz (38)
Harrison (38)
Wlad (L)

He hasn't fought a man younger than 36 in his proper-HW run. Of those that he has fought - none would be really in a top-10 at-the-weight at-the-time. Of them, only Harrison ended in 3 rounds - and there, nothing was thrown/landed for 2 rounds.

Meanwhile Adamek, also CW champion - has moved up and beaten Golota, Estrada, Arreola, Grant, Maddalone, McBride.

Adamek's record is superior to Haye's.

Adamek himself has had a fair share of oldies.

Golota (42)
Estrada (29 - rubbish)
Arreola (29)
Grant (38)
Maddalone (36)
McBride (37)

In fact its only Arreola that stands out on there. It could be argued its slighty better, but not by much.
To me those lists just highlight the lack of quality around the division at the moment.

The fact that Haye and Adamek can have over ten fights between them without having faced the other is a depressing thought. More so given the dross they have faced.

12 rounds not a rip off. Dave did well

Last time poster as well, hopefully.

Union Cane wrote:Last time poster as well, hopefully.

Bit nasty there doncha think?

Steffan wrote:

Union Cane wrote:Last time poster as well, hopefully.

Bit nasty there doncha think?

Considering the content of the post, I don't think so. Perhaps a little harsh, but definitely fair.

Steffan wrote:

Union Cane wrote:Last time poster as well, hopefully.

Bit nasty there doncha think?

This is the sort of attitude you get one here, everyone seems so aloof, and whatever you do don't post anything someone disagrees with, or a Mod will delete it!

Welcome to the board, but I am going to merge this with the other fight thread. Cheers.

JDandfries wrote:

Steffan wrote:

Union Cane wrote:Last time poster as well, hopefully.

Bit nasty there doncha think?

This is the sort of attitude you get one here, everyone seems so aloof, and whatever you do don't post anything someone disagrees with, or a Mod will delete it!

A mod will delete it if it breaks the house rules, so quit with the stupid remarks. Any problems feel free to PM one of us.

Pretty much sumd up the fight for me , wlad was fantanstic and i have never seen him so agreeesive but how the hell does he get away with leaning on haye so much ? every time haye got close he just used his forearms round his neck it was disgusting !! , Not sure how much the toe was a factor on why haye was so bad but ive never seen him be that reckless he wasent in control at all , would love to see him fight at domestic level again just to shut up the likes of frank warren ,

.....awaiting disdainful response from boxing forum regulars and mods

When it suits you of course!!

As above.

Yet another that needs to be merged. I will give it 5 minutes but please, PLEASE, look to see if there is a thread already going on the same subject before posting a new one.

Mod baiting will only end one way JD.

JDandfries wrote:This is the sort of attitude you get one here, everyone seems so aloof

'Cyberbullying' is the correct term. Union Cane has obviously found a new member to insult/pick on

JDandfries wrote:Whatever you do don't post anything someone disagrees with, or a Mod will delete it!

The lunatics always take over the asylum in the end...

I am sure it will, but I think it is unfair to disdainfuly attempt to ridicule someone just because they either repeat something or disagree with an opinion - and is therefore unfair and not a MODS job in my opinion

Steffan wrote:
'Cyberbullying' is the correct term. Union Cane has obviously found a new member to insult/pick on

That's 'Stain' to you, you big bully.

Union Cane wrote:

Steffan wrote:
'Cyberbullying' is the correct term. Union Cane has obviously found a new member to insult/pick on

That's 'Stain' to you, you big bully.

Il call you whatever you want bigboy but its gonna cost your extra

Okay guys and gals.

Can we all just chill for 5 please.

Its been a good few days on here and everyone has had loads to talk about with Mr Haye and co, so lets get back to talking boxing.

As Mr Cane quite rightly said, mod baiting is not a clever move. If you have any issues with any of the decisions made by a mod or admin, then please let one of the other admin or mods know.

From reading over this thread, both of the moderators online are calling things down the middle and handling things in line with our rules (as well as handling them well and fairly). So please can you all cut out the insults and go back to discussing sport.

thanks.

H

BALTIMORA wrote:The fact that Haye and Adamek can have over ten fights between them without having faced the other is a depressing thought. More so given the dross they have faced.

Absolutely true.

I will bang the drum for Adamek one last time - his opposition at HW is marginally better than Haye's. And it should be remembered that Haye's opposition at crusier did miss O'Neill Bell and that other good one that wasn't Mormeck.

Ultimately - Haye has only had 27 fights. That isn't enough to become world heavyweight champion AFTER being world crusierweight champion. Holyfield did it, true - but he was 2 or 3 times the fighter of Haye. Wlad is a 50 fight veteran and that showed on saturday night.

If Haye had beaten all the top crusiers (as Holyfield did) and then stepped up to take a run at heavyweight beating the top contenders at HW (as Holyfield did) making himself no1 contender for Wlad's throne (as Holyfield did to Tyson/Douglas) - the additional experience would have held him in good stead.

Instead he beat a bunch of extremely faded has-beens and never-weres.

For my money - Haye probably does beat Adamek - but we'll never know because he didn't fight him and there's certainly enough that Adamek brings to the table - in the chin, good left jab and decent workrate to make the fight interesting. Of the top 10 contenders at the weight when he arrived - WK, VK, Chambers, Thompson, Dimitrenko, Povetkin, Chagaev, Valuev, Arreola, and probably Solis - Haye beat Valuev. And he was only there - because he held the belt that he stole (look into the circumstances, it was a Dick Turpin-esque robbery) from Chagaev.

Now that's not to say Haye couldn't beat those guys. He should hammer Thompson and punish Arreola. But we can't say that because he hasn't fought enough of them.

He talked his way to a title, let everyone down and there's very little left to fall back upon.

If he wants to make it at the weight - he needs to rebuild over 2-3 years and start beating some of that top 10 above. Swap Adamek for Valuev and drop Chagaev, promoting Helenius and its close to the top 10 of today.

For my money he retires. Paydays against those guys would be likely small - and I'm not sure he wants it enough. A guy who likes the sport because it pays him, but maybe without too much love for it.

OasisBFC wrote:winds me up.

on the eve of the manny fight, to some hatton was too big, to aggressive and would wear manny down with crushing body blows.

24 hours later, to those same people hatton was a washed up bum who should have retired after mayweather and was an embarrassment to british boxing. people are so fragile in their beliefs and opinions, and are far too short sighted with their comments.

Haye is the worst "World Heavweight Champion" in the history of the sport. His biggest wins are over a diseased Valuev and a past it Valuev victim in Ruiz. Apart from that there's Barrett and Audley.

He's just been utterly exposed by Wlad as a chancer.

Name me a former champ with a worse record.

fearlessBamber wrote:

OasisBFC wrote:winds me up.

on the eve of the manny fight, to some hatton was too big, to aggressive and would wear manny down with crushing body blows.

24 hours later, to those same people hatton was a washed up bum who should have retired after mayweather and was an embarrassment to british boxing. people are so fragile in their beliefs and opinions, and are far too short sighted with their comments.

Haye is the worst "World Heavweight Champion" in the history of the sport. His biggest wins are over a diseased Valuev and a past it Valuev victim in Ruiz. Apart from that there's Barrett and Audley.

He's just been utterly exposed by Wlad as a chancer.

Name me a former champ with a worse record.

Fists of Fury wrote:

fearlessBamber wrote:

OasisBFC wrote:winds me up.

on the eve of the manny fight, to some hatton was too big, to aggressive and would wear manny down with crushing body blows.

24 hours later, to those same people hatton was a washed up bum who should have retired after mayweather and was an embarrassment to british boxing. people are so fragile in their beliefs and opinions, and are far too short sighted with their comments.

Haye is the worst "World Heavweight Champion" in the history of the sport. His biggest wins are over a diseased Valuev and a past it Valuev victim in Ruiz. Apart from that there's Barrett and Audley.

He's just been utterly exposed by Wlad as a chancer.

Name me a former champ with a worse record.

I guess that mean you can't.

Come on FoF, it can't be that hard to outwit a "brainless" academic like me.

I take it from that response Fists, you can't name a worse champ?

I honestly am not sure I could (not including valuev of course)

Tyson's record doesn't add up to much when you look at it subjectively.

Union Cane wrote:Tyson's record doesn't add up to much when you look at it subjectively.

Hmm: Holmes, Williams, Tucker, Tubbs, Spinks, Ruddock, Thomas, Smith, Bruno, Berbick, Biggs would all start favourite against Haye as they were when Tyson beat them.

Didn't mention Haye...

On paper record Haye is probably now in the worst ten heavyweights of title holders of all time but I think his overall ability would see him escape. As for worse champions?

Liakhovitch
Bent
Damiani
Akinwadi
Seldon
Hide

Would be a few off the top of my head

manos de piedra wrote:On paper record Haye is probably now in the worst ten heavyweights of title holders of all time but I think his overall ability would see him escape. As for worse champions?

Liakhovitch
Bent
Damiani
Akinwadi
Seldon
Hide

Would be a few off the top of my head

I think you are being very kind to Haye.

Even these guys, who were awful, have better records than Haye at Heavyweight.

Why does Haye get the benefit of the doubt regarding his ability - before Wlad it was an unknown quantity, but the box has been opened and the cat is dead. Haye performed like an average Wlad opponent. Couple that to his lack of opposition and wins and he is seriously near the bottom of the pile. Arguably at the bottom.

Even if you ignore his acheivements at cruiser, which to me are indicative of a certain level of talent even if it has no direct bearing on his heavyweight record - I still struggle to see how any of the guys on that list can be ranked higher.

I dont think these guys have better records. A few may be on a par in which case Hayes overall talent nudges him ahead.

Hide has a great record? Blasted out in 2 by Vitali and 6 by Bowe......

Hide's record at heavyweight is awful - as bad as Haye's. I guess he's got the KO over Bent and the blow out of a pretty shot Tucker - comparable with Haye's big wins.