Nadal is finished

Beatdown of the year.

Nadal has had his day, he is mentally cooked.

Ajde Nole!

Josiah Maiestas wrote:Beatdown of the year.

Nadal has had his day, he is mentally cooked.

Ajde Nole!

I'm sorry, but I am going to have to disagree. Rafa pushed Novak ALL the way to the end.

Rafa will bounce back.

Didn't take long for the first piece of rubbish to hit the forums after a great final of a Grand Slam event.

Although I never seen Nadal dominated by any player like that in a grand slam in such a long time, I think it's a bit too soon. I remember thinking Fed was finished in 2009 after the Australian, and he came back.

Gosh what confidence you have in your crystal ball Josiah !

Could you please give me next Tuesday's Euro Lottery numbers ?

guys it's just a joke, Nadal will definitely still be winning slams, have fun!

Josiah Maiestas wrote:guys it's just a joke, Nadal will definitely still be winning slams, have fun!

he will find it difficult to win a slam other RG. He is not finished, he can still win slams provided novak gets injured or fed beats djoko again.

Vamos Nole !

Nadal you was great cant win them all

vamos tamos

Nadal still my hero

Nadal is certainly not finished but he does have to add to his game and come up with a new strategy for playing Djoko. He has to show that he can win in different ways and come up with a new style, Novak has shown that he can handle Rafa's plan A. Now its up to Rafa to add something, and to learn to win in a different way.

socal1976 wrote:Nadal is certainly not finished but he does have to add to his game and come up with a new strategy for playing Djoko. He has to show that he can win in different ways and come up with a new style, Novak has shown that he can handle Rafa's plan A. Now its up to Rafa to add something, and to learn to win in a different way.

I would also build on a point made by McEnroe in the just concluded Wimbledon final. Novak can win long rallies against Rafa now. Unlike other players, he does not become frustrated or unnerved by having to hit the extra shot. I actually think this improvement from Nole has actually unnerved Rafa somewhat.

Exactly kemet, as I watched the match go on it because clear that Djokovic would win most of the longer rallies and you expected Nadal would make an error (which initially I wasn't expecting), it was as if Nadal wasn't used to losing those rallies and it definitely unnerved him. For a change, it was Nadal who pulled the trigger first.

I still can't believe Djokovic has done something which nobody has ever done in a grand slam final in 4 years, defeated Nadal. This can only add to Djokovic's confidence and the wobble we saw in the third set from Djokovic might mean cleaner victories over Nadal in future matches.

Nadal is finished like Hewitt's time finished in 2003. Nadal however can be happy to have 10 slams. that's a lot for a game based essentially on superior physique...!

Tenez wrote:Nadal is finished like Hewitt's time finished in 2003. Nadal however can be happy to have 10 slams. that's a lot for a game based essentially on superior physique...!

Federer lost the 2008 W Final and went on to win slams after that loss. What makes you think Nadal cannot do the same?

laverfan wrote:

Tenez wrote:Nadal is finished like Hewitt's time finished in 2003. Nadal however can be happy to have 10 slams. that's a lot for a game based essentially on superior physique...!

Federer lost the 2008 W Final and went on to win slams after that loss. What makes you think Nadal cannot do the same?

Nadal like Hewitt was relying on his physicl superiority. For years we thought he was a natural physical phenomenon. But now we have players who can challenge him physcally (Djoko and Murray) but those have more talent. Sure Nadal might win the odd one from now but he won't win an in form Djoko. Today was his best chance and he fell very short.

I'll agree that I can't see an in form Djokovic losing to Nadal but it's hard to predict the future, Djokovic has only lost once this year, he will start losing more often again and Nadal might be able to build up his confidence again if he establishes a win.

It was remarkable how Nadal, who normally plays so well on the big points just collapsed (because he wasn't winning the rallies primarily) and handed the breaks to Djokovic. If Nadal makes the final next year and Djokovic does too, I fear Nadal will be even more convincingly defeated because I can't imagine Djokovic will have a mini meltdown like he did in the third set this year. Nadal's going to have to do something to figure out Djokovic, being defeated on every surface and in all sorts of tournaments and all over the world only suggests things could get worse now Djokovic had finally got a grand slam victory over Nadal under his belt.

I said that 4 wins in a row wasn't a fluke (I wasn't the only one though, a small band of Nole fans said so too) and continuously Nadal fans said they were meaningless, well I hope you listened to Rafa today after he lost because he said it DID have an impact and did matter. I understand Nadal can come back, he very well might but one thing I might add is that it took 3 attempts for Nadal to defeat Federer @ Wimbledon and after that Federer has never found a way to get back @ Nadal in grand slams. Djokovic defeated Nadal on his first attempt @ a Wimbledon final, which is worrying, as many said grass wasn't Djokovic's best surface. Personally, I think Djokovic can even threaten Rafa on clay, luckily for Rafa, he has a lot of time to prepare for the clay season (which is next year now).

I looked at some of your clips of those matches Nadal was defeated in by Djokovic earlier in the year wow and exactly the same sort of thing happened today. Every time the rallies started to develop Nadal was more likely to pull the trigger. Despite what MM said, that Nadal wasn't playing even @ 50% was wishful thinking, he wasn't being allowed to play any better than that.

Wht was extremely key today and in my view the summary of the match is how successful was Djoko on his BP conversion 5 out of 6! This is where Nadal is typically so difficult to beat. PLayers can get tons of BPs but their conversion ratio is very poor.

So How does Djoko do it? Very simple, he does what Nadal usually does....keep the ball in court and wait for the opponent to go for too much. There it was Djoko keeping the ball until Nadal was forced to pull the trigger first...but Nadal is not used to be in that position....so he misses for often than not!

This BP conversion is very interesting nd so unlike wht we usully see v Nadal.

I agree Tenez, Nadal looked very uncomfortable to be in the position of having to go for more and because Djokovic is such an excellent returner the errors came flowing through often enough just like they did with Tsonga.

The BP conversion is intriguing, when was the last time someone had such an excellent BP conversion against Nadal in a grand slam? The BP conversion was much higher than that against Tsonga where it was 6/12.

Sorry tenez,

I disagree.

Novak didn't wait for Rafa to miss. In the first two sets when he was dominating, Novak was dictating all of the rallies. With each progressive shot Nadal was forced wider, further behind the baseline and into a more defensive position. Eventually he'd make an error or Novak would hit a clean winner.

Novak held the central court position and bossed Rafa around.

Only when Novak became more tentative in the third did Rafa have any kind of success.

luciusmann wrote:I agree Tenez, Nadal looked very uncomfortable to be in the position of having to go for more and because Djokovic is such an excellent returner the errors came flowing through often enough just like they did with Tsonga.

The BP conversion is intriguing, when was the last time someone had such an excellent BP conversion against Nadal in a grand slam? The BP conversion was much higher than that against Tsonga where it was 6/12.

Yes, Tsonga has a good serve to get him out of trouble but to get 6/12 v Tsong is very good too.

emancipator wrote:Sorry tenez,

I disagree.

Novak didn't wait for Rafa to miss. In the first two sets when he was dominating, Novak was dictating all of the rallies. With each progressive shot Nadal was forced wider, further behind the baseline and into a more defensive position. Eventually he'd make an error or Novak would hit a clean winner.

Novak held the central court position and bossed Rafa around.

Only when Novak became more tentative in the third did Rafa have any kind of success.

Yes I agree with tht but not so much on BPs. First BP in the first set is Nadl forcing a FH into the net after a long rally. The first BP in the second set I think is Nadal forcing his way to the net with a drop shot that Djoko just about get. I can't remember the others but I am pretty sure it's Nadal forcing the issue and not the other way around.

It was good to get 6/12 against Tsonga, just the conversion rate wasn't as good as against Nadal.

If you compare Murray, he only got 2 less break points in total (4, Djokovic got 6) and converted just one (in the first set). It was almost as bad as Federer's against Tsonga where he had the single break point he converted in the first set. It's the successful BP conversion rate which stands out in the match.

a facet of their match up that I'm surprised not many people have mentioned is that Djokovic is an incredible returner which everyone knows but is he finally exposing Nadals serve? Nadals serve has never been the best no matter how much its improved, Djokovic catches it with ease and has no problems with any of the spins and slices Rafa throws in. I feel like Novak can break Nadal almost at will when they play

I keep telling everyone that Djokovic is the best returner in the game and probably the best returner since Andre in his heyday. Federer couldn't get a whiff on Tsonga's serve for all but one service game in 5 sets. Novak broke Tsonga over and over again. The man intimidates with his returns. He hit a couple of winners off of Nadal's first serve that i think really unraveled Nadal. Nadal was in the 120s most of the day and hitting his first serve but it just didn't matter. In the first set Nadal was near 90 percent in first serves that he was getting in. It still didn't matter he got broken and lost. In fact, that first set from Nadal was the best I have seen him play in a while. He served out of his mind, and still got broken and lost. When have you seen a guy serve high 80s for a set and lose it 6-4?

I actually think that Federer gets a lot of serves back, think he reads the serve better than anyone difference is when Novak does connect with a serve more often than not he is in control of the rally, Federer gets loads of returns back more than Novak but they vary in quality. The chip, Nadal just eats up

Don't be so ridiculous. Rafa is not finished so you should stop getting ahead of your self.

Josiah Maiestas wrote:Beatdown of the year.

Nadal won a set didn't he ?

erictheblueuk wrote:

Josiah Maiestas wrote:Beatdown of the year.

Nadal won a set didn't he ?

It could be argued in all honesty that Djoko lost one....rather!

Djoko went to sleep in the 3rd, I half expected it as the same occurred against Tsongali

Yup, definitely agree JM & Tenez, in the case of the 3rd set Djokovic lost it rather than Nadal winning it. As I've said, if they play another grand slam final, if Nadal hasn't come up with any answers, it will be a thrashing which will pale in comparison. In many respects, Nadal got off lightly, it was clear to all he was dominated but we all could see it could have been a lot worse for him.

As for anyone who thinks that Nadal was playing poorly for some unexplained reason, I have said, he wasn't allowed to play any other way. Djokovic was getting to nearly all the balls and that unnerved Nadal who's not used to it. There's no other explanation, I looked at the highlights of the Rome & Miami Masters (thanks wow) and exactly the same thing happened to Nadal. In fact, had I watched those clips I'd have had Djokovic as overwhelming favourite, despite most 'experts' & pundits saying otherwise. Amazing how these guys get it so wrong, did they not watch those matches through the season (I'd have hoped so, it's there job, Henman did)? What we saw yesterday in terms of play is what has been happening throughout the year and it continued yesterday.

As I've said, if they play another grand slam final, if Nadal hasn't come up with any answers, it will be a thrashing which will pale in comparison. In many respects, Nadal got off lightly, it was clear to all he was dominated but we all could see it could have been a lot worse for him.
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And that is certainly the feeling we had when Nadal was beating Federer. We always felt that Federer had it in his racquet but for some reasons felt shorts in teh important points, losing very close 5 or 4 setters versus Nadal. Even their last encounters was pretty close on clay.

That is the big difference. We felt that between Rafa and Federer it was often the throw of a coin with Nadal winning most often the toss.

But now against Djoko and Rafa, the coin has 2 Djoko's faces on it!

Nadal beats Federer 6 times in slams and the match is on Federer's racquet. Djokovic beats Nadal once in 5 slams and the match is on his racquet? Lol at the logic. So we agree then that Nadal lost a set at the FO finals instead of Federer winning it. How kind of Djokovic to donate a bread stick set to Nadal.

Well SA, of course Djokovic would want to get the 3rd set finished with quickly, Becker said that if the match was under 3 hours Djokovic wins, if it's longer, Nadal wins. Djokovic just wanted to finish that set and get on with finishing off Nadal, which he was confident he could do and he did. The match lasted 2 hours 29 minutes, Djokovic had more a mental lapse in the 3rd set more than Nadal winning it.

You're dreaming about the French Open final where Nadal lost a set to Fed, the first set was Fed's to lose and he did and the second was determined on a tie breaker. Both very close sets and if Federer had avoided his mini mental meltdown, we might be talking about a different result but he did & that's the way it is. But don't amuse yourself, Fed had to win that set.

In close games it's a question of having to win each set, given that yesterday wasn't a close match at all, the realistic explanation, and the fairest one which can be concluded from those watching was Djokovic losing his mental composure which he quickly corrected in the 4th set.

Of course I know, Fed wins matches and sets after he lost.

I'm sure the plan for Djokovic was to lose 3rd set 1-6, give Nadal a break point in game 1 of 4th set, break him 2 times to Nadal's 1s to seal it. You people know it all, I wonder if you can write the script for all upcoming matches.

Do you think you can write three posts without Federers name in it, or alluding to him, Simplistic?

Go on, I'd love to see you try.

Djokovic is the new king in town, Rafito's should be more gracious to the champion rather than blaming their own man's efforts in the match...

show some class if you have any.

That's quite a different thing SA, and you know it, of course I'm not saying Djokovic intended (or planned) to lose that set.

I'm simply saying that Djokovic, who has no experience of having the upper hand against Nadal in grand slams finals had a mental lapse, something which we saw with Federer in the French Open final this year. But the key difference is that when Djokovic had his mental lapse, it happened when he was 2 sets up to love so he had the confidence to know it wasn't significant or terminal. Fed didn't have that luxury and lost. All the sets in the French final were hard fought apart from the last where Fed sensed the end was near and folded. Credit to Nadal, he didn't fold in the 4th set to Djokovic, but I think that's more a reflection of Djokovic's relative inexperience of beating Rafa in the slams, he could have run away with the 4th set like the 2nd.