Does Lewis v Holyfield 2 give Haye hope?

In 1999 A former undisputed cruiserweight champ, who'd previously boxed his way to victory against big men, had taken belts at heavyweight and was known for exciting fighting style finally met for a heavyweight unification fight with a big, chess playing european who was considered by many US fans to be boring, thanks to his safety first style of boxing behind the jab against smaller men. The former cruiserweight champ weighed comfortably under 220lbs, 30lbs lighter than the big man. Big though he was he had a questionable jaw that had been cracked by a less than stellar name in the past and was considered slow in comparison to the former cruiser, who although may not have the size and strength, was seen as being quicker of hand and foot and also having great self belief.

The fight happened and the big man got into his rhthym in the first two rounds, the smaller fighter finally having some success in taking the third but failing to capitilise throughout the fight. The big man won in some people's eyes about ten of the 12 rounds and clearly beat the smaller man. Then came the decision. It is clear that had that not been called a draw no one would have cared to see a rematch. Why bother? The good bigun beat the good littlun decisively. With the draw, however, there was reason to get it on once more and they did. And something amazing happened. It was actually kinda close. So close that there are Holyfield fans who'll tell you he won!

Twelve years later and the story is similar, except with each man being an inch taller and 3lbs lighter than his 90's counterpart. So with Wlad and Haye both talking rematch, is it less fanciful than you'd think to imagine Haye being far more competetive. Afterall, Holyfield's toe was FINE. We know Haye is no Holyfield but Wlad is no Lewis either.

So what do you think chaps? Has history told us there actually might be a point in a rematch?

If Haye decides to get rid of his retirement plan I see no reason why not. There will be no rematch before October but if Haye gets back in line with a few wins then this time next year he could be in with another shot. People saying Haye is useless and has no chance is all very well but who else is Klitschko going to fight? Povetkin isn't ready and his trainer Teddy Atlas won't let him go near either Klitschko yet. Adamek will be at the back of the line like Haye once Vitali beats him in September. Haye was Klitschko's hardest fight since his first fight with Peter 6 years ago, Klitschko is that far ahead of the rest of the field, except his brother. I can't see anyone else who'll have a better chance of beating him than Haye so why can't there be a rematch.

there wont be a rematch because WK beat him easy and Haye has not done enough to warrant a rematch, he has possibly got a chance to get a fight with VK although he might have to take on another opponent first...

one big issue will be money, no way will haye get 50-50 and he prob wont want to take a deal that is much worse than the one he just got

I would have thought Holyfield/Bowe would give Haye hope as Evander went from being nearly knocked out in the first encounter to win the rematch. Haye is bigger than Evander and I still don't think Wlad' chin is that solid.

The thing that I could not understand is why David completely ignored doing body punching except for the odd lazy jab. Haye was close enough on several occasions and made Wlad miss his jab but just concentrated on wild swings over the top.

I still think Haye is a good fighter and definitely capable of dethroning Wlad but a serious rethink needs to take place on tackling Wlad, especially as David displayed a chin solid enough to take the best Wlad had to offer.

Broken toe or not but bigger punch output and more variety of shot between head and body would be required.

The fighter that should give Haye hope is Samuel Peter. KD'd Wlad three times in their first match before losing. Put up the most dreadfully uninspired fight against Vitali before managing to do even worse against Wlad in their rematch.

Another fight with Haye can easily be made (as seen above, the Germans will watch the K's no mattter who they fight) but it would be completely on Wlad's terms this time. Definitely wouldn't be PPV and Haye would get about 12 quid.

He would have to suffer months of toe-related jibes (the K's bringing him slippers, footrests and one of those fish manicure things) but after the stuff Wlad has endured in the build-up to this weekends fight, I think it's only fair

Sadly, I think the link between Lewis-Holyfield and Haye-Klitschko is, at best, a tenuous one, though I will say that you've made it in to a very good article, JBW.

The disparity between Lewis and Holyfield that night (I personally only had Lewis ahead by a point or two) was nowhere near as great as the one between Klitschko and Haye. Given that Klitschko hasn't been jobbed by the judges, there really is no need for the rematch, and there isn't a chance in hell that Haye is going to be able to command anything more than around thrity percent of the purse if it were to happen. He brings little to the table now, no belt and, crucially, no more casual fans believing that he is the 'saviour of the Heavyweight division.'

Dont see the comparison. Haye lost almost every round bar his diving tactics that on won him a point. Lewis was well and truly robbed to a draw.

The reality is there is nowhere for Wlad or Haye or Wlad to go now as the brothers have wiped out th division.

A rematch could happen, but would people really want to see it.Wlad has litle prove, and Haye couldnt muster the dignity to accept he was beaten fairly. The boxing world shoulf call a spade a spade and look to other divisions rather than trying to re-hype a Haye who was largely all talk. He did little better than the "bums for paychecks" that hes accused Wlad of dining on.

Bit harsh, Manos. At no point was Haye dominated, I have said it in another thread but the reason he lost this fight was a lack of activity. Wlad had trouble finding him cleanly with the jab, yet accrued points by constantly pumping it out and getting glancing blows.

Cleaner work was probably from Haye, he did land some half decent punches at times, but Wladimir was excellent defensively and landing 2 to 1, regardless of how clean the punches are, is always going to win you a fight.

Fists, I have respectfully to disagree with you there. To my eye, Haye was indeed dominated - I scored the bout 118-109, which, bearing in mind that one of the rounds dropped by Klitschko was due to a debatable infringement of the rules, is as one-sided as it gets at this level. If you're set up on the back foot the whole time, your activity is naturally going to be curtailed, and all the real work, solid or otherwise was landed by Klitschko. The best punch of the fight, a long right from Klitschko in the 5th, was well weathered by Haye, I agree, but Haye's moments of success were few and far between.

As far as lack of activity goes, both boxers threw the same number of shots. The difference was in Klitschko's accuracy. Wlad connected with more than twice the number of shots of his opponent. The reasons are obvious; Wlad was constantly on the front foot, from where it is easier to score. Haye, on the other hand, was reduced to swinging hopefully with the right from distance - result, no accuracy.

You're right that Haye wasn't particularly active. However, the reasons for this are much more rooted in Klitschko's physical and mental dominance than in any other factor, in my opinion.

Wlad never looked like securing a KO, but in all honesty I doubt Haye was any more effective than the rest of the guys Wlads faced offensively. He was better suited to surving than the others but the likes of Ibragimov, Chagaev, Peter and so on were actually more of a threat and at least brought the fight. Obviously Haye will say he had a plan (so did Audley apparently!) but he suffered a similar fate as all the rest of them. The main difference was he didnt really go for it and was content to hear the final bell.

I dont blame him too much because I think the Wlad style is tough to deal with but I cant see why he feels entitled to believe he is so superior to most of Wlads opponents. Certainly performance wise he didnt justify it. Maybe if Sultan Ibragimov could trash talk that unification fight would have been the biggest since Lewis Tyson. Not even convinced Haye would beat the Peters, Ibragimovs and Chagaevs now after that. Wlad had something like 40% success in landing on him. Thats far higher than I expected going into the fight.