NZ's next gen 10

Well, talk about who will be NZ’s backup to Dan ‘The Man’ Carter can be a national obsession in NZ at times. We all shudder at the thought of his calf going as it that ill-fated night in Cardiff 4 yrs ago and his Achilles problems at Perpignan in 2008. Whilst there are two very good players bubbling underneath in Cruden and Slade, these two suffer the usual comparisons to Carter however it is natural to be compared to possibly the greatest flyhalf to grace the game (Barry John fans avert your eyes!) whilst he is still running the show. I have no doubt both these players will come good in their own right, but what is interesting to look at in the NZ game is a clutch of promising 10’s coming through at exactly the right time for NZ.

Gareth Anscombe, Lima Sopoanga, Beauden Barratt and Tyler Bleyendaal. Not all household names. Two of them can play elsewhere in the backline as well as 10 efficiently, two of them carried the NZ U20 team to the title at 10. We have four of the best young, upcoming flyhalves in the world. It may be seen as a bit greedy but realistically, in this area NZ are in rude health. They are young and learning therefore will in all probability make some mistakes along the way, even some howlers perhaps, but when these guys come to the boil by god, watch out the rest of the world.

Here’s a quick article on Anscombe http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10736024 interestingly, he followed his dad Mark to the UK where Mark was DoR at Moseley and apparently was almost lost to the dark side (football). At 18 had already played for Auckland in the NPC and if he comes through a strong season this year would appear to have the inside running to the Blues 10 shirt next year. With Ma’a Nonu, Isaia Toeava and Rene Ranger outside him, the Blues could well look like excitement machines next year.

Lima Sopoanga is already at 20 an integral part of the Wellington Lions NPC team and followed Jamie Joseph to the Highlanders with Cruden ahead of him at the Hurricances. He is learning all the time but with Wellington we may have a sneak peak of the next big 9/10 combo, as I strongly believe TJ Perenara will become a big part of the All Blacks in the next few years. Look out for these guys in this year’s NPC

Beauden Barratt hails from Taranaki and has played a part in the woes of the Horrorcanes this year. He has played some assured games at Fullback this year but with Aaron Cruden looking likely to head north to the Chiefs and the average Dan Kirkpatrick (another 10 to lead NZ to the U 20 title) not coming on as he should have, 2012 could be the dawn of a new era at the Hurricanes with Beauden running the show.

Tyler Bleyendaal has had a much quieter role since his U20 title win. He is 3rd choice at the Crusaders under Carter and Berquist so will look to the year’s NPC to stake a claim. With Berquist leaving the Crusaders this year, Bleyendaal will surely see more game time with the Crusaders and he can learn from no one better than Dan Carter. July 27th will be a cracker with Sopoanga and Wellington going up against Bleyendaal’s Canterbury

So, it would appear that NZ rugby is not quite as dry in the flyhalf department as we think it is. Green, perhaps, but definitely not dry!

With Carter re-signing, there´s plenty of time for those young players to come through.

I´m so glad to see Slade come through a match against North Otago. He gives a lot more security than Cruden for me despite his glass jaw. Cruden is still very young and has time on his side.

I think there´s enough talent coming through to keep us greedy Kiwis satisfied. What I´d like to see is a halfback that raises the eyebrows. We really don´t have a premium on that position in world rugby.

Kia, just wait for Perenara to blossom...I reckon 2 years under Weepu whilst learning his role in the NPC will set him up pretty well

Well bring that on bro.

Interesting. I think Barrett will probably end up at full back. From what I've seen, which admittedly is probably not enough, but Bleyendaal is the most complete of the quartet.

Anscombe looks like the classic NH pivot, who will need a lot of talent outside of him. He'll be good and very level headed but not enough. Not sure about Sopoaga either. Seems more of a second five to me.

Oh, how about Tawera Kerr-Barlow at half back?

Cannot believe noone has mentioned Donald

debaters1 wrote:Cannot believe noone has mentioned Donald

That's because he's "Going North*" . The same applies to Berquist, McAllister, Brett.

Donald duck has signed for Bath, Berquist for (? can't remember), McAllister for Toulouse and Brett for somewhere in Japan.

Berquist has signed for Leinster I think. For numerous reasons I have not watched that much Super Rugby over the past two season (maily due to my fondness for late night and disdain for early weekend mornings/when one has to do the early thing my daugther taking priorty) but is Donald one of those players that is excellent at the top level in the club game but cannot make the step up to Int or is he just shoite or has he actually played well but a) isnt Dan and b) treated harshly by the media. And us. ??

debaters1 wrote:Berquist has signed for Leinster I think. For numerous reasons I have not watched that much Super Rugby over the past two season (maily due to my fondness for late night and disdain for early weekend mornings/when one has to do the early thing my daugther taking priorty) but is Donald one of those players that is excellent at the top level in the club game but cannot make the step up to Int or is he just shoite or has he actually played well but a) isnt Dan and b) treated harshly by the media. And us. ??

IMO, Donald is one of those players that is excellent at the top level in the club game but cannot make the step up to International.

Cheers Kiwi. Figured as much.

Kiwi-
sorry don't wanna go off topic on you but could you tell me a bit about Berquist please?

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Kiwi-
sorry don't wanna go off topic on you but could you tell me a bit about Berquist please?

I'll try Pete, be aware I have been watching my Kiwi rugby from the UK for 5 years

Matt Berquist:
28 years old, 182cm tall (5 ft 11 1/2) 88kg

Born in the Hawkes Bay, he attended Otago university, so debuted in NPC for Otago in 2003, getting just 11 games in 2 seasons. He moved home to Hawkes Bay in 2005 and played NPC for them for 5 seasons, notching up 392 points in 40 matches. Last year in the INL cup he moved to Auckland scoring 109 points in 10 games.

Super Rugby wise, he was in the Highlanders squad in 2004, but didn't take the field (IIRC Tony Brown was still 1st choice). In 2009 he was drafted by the Highlanders, and shared the #10 duties with Dan Bowden. Initially a bench player, he started 6 of their last 7 matches. In 2010 with Bowden gone he competed with Michael Hobbs and Robbie Robinson for a starting berth, earning 6 starts. Israel Dagg was doing the goalkicking for the Southern Men, so they favoured more attacking options at 10.

Moving to the Crusaders in a straight swap for Colin Slade he's had a pretty good season as Dan Carter's backup, taking the field in 13 matches to date, and certainly not disgracing himself in the absence of the master. Keeping last year's NZ U20 RWC star Tyler Blyendaal off the field all season is pretty impressive. He's regarded as a handy kicker with good distribution skills, though less of a threat running the ball.

Tell you what as well, the coverage Sky is giving Schoolboy rugby on Rugby channel is just tremendous. Multi camera, replays from different angles and the full Keith Quinn and co commentary.

Saw last Saturdays between Westlake and Massey High and these boys were literally following the AB patterns at both forward and back play.

big fast wingers and mobile forwards, tries driven in low and wingers scoring 50 meter runs down the wing bumping players off in the traditional way.

NZ youth rugby certainly is in good shape.

Bodes well for the future Taylorman

Interestingly, it was noted in the article about Anscombe that the flyhalves from the last 2-3 Under 20's are emerging with more tactical nous and dealing with pressure situations, something which didn't happen with the likes of Dan Kirkpatrick, who was destined for greater things when he came back from that tournament...it looks as though the system has adapted to deal with that weakness?

Would 28 year old Berquist really be one for the future especially as he has a NH contract?

Stag-

Check your PM when you have a min please.

Also thanks Kiwi. Is he another one of those utility back kinda players or is he strickly a 10?

Hi Stag, think the topic went off subject slightly. Berquist was brought up as he is the one holding out Bleyendaal at the Crusaders

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Also thanks Kiwi. Is he another one of those utility back kinda players or is he strickly a 10?

Pretty much just a 10 I think. Probably 12 at a pinch, but much more as a "second five-eighth" in old NZ parlance rather than a modern inside centre. 88kg is small in the modern game.

The only weakness in New Zealand Rugby, for me, would be the average fly-half successors behind probably the best they've ever had; Daniel Carter. Going to have a discussion as opposed to a vote because I'm not sure who would make the shortlist.

Stephen Donald has been back-up in recent years much to the grunt of some All Black journalist and fans. He's leaving NZ though after the world cup I believe(?) as is McAlister who's more of a second five-eight than first anyway.

Stehpen Brett, Aaron Cruden, Daniel Kirkpatrick, Gareth Anscombe all look very average in my opinion and average players don't make good All Blacks. Not sure of Tyler Blydenaal. He looked pretty exceptional at U20 level but doesn't necessarily mean he'll cut it in the big leagues. I haven't had the chance to keep an eye on him and not sure of who he plays for... (canterbury?)

In years gone by Nick Evans looked the only player capable of filling Carters shoes but moved overseas. Would he come back still capable of being an All Black?
DC could get injured tomorrow and IMO New Zealand would be in big, big trouble. Alternatively he could win the World Cup with NZ then stop playing Internatioal Rugby. Either way, who will be the next All Black no.10?


[Edit, merged this one with the existing NZ upcoming #10 debate. Good post NJ, - K ]

I didn't see this earlier article on the subject... when was it posted?

Dammit….I was posting on your thread Nottins and then it was removed! Anyway….

It’s a bit early to be writing off the likes of Cruden and Slade with a meagre amt of test matches behind them. Both will grow and they will become better players sooner, rather than later. It’s even earlier to write off Anscombe (only JUST 20 fgs) and Bleyendaal who hasn’t had a chance at S15 level yet.

We also have Sopoanga and Beauden Barratt, but these two are more utilities than anything, though look out for Sopoanga for Wellington in this years ITM Cup.

There’s 6 upcoming pivots, all under the age of 24 – can any other country claim this many at this age who all have great credentials at such a young age? With DC going to be racking up the points for another 3-4 yrs, these guys are going to develop quite nicely. If they don’t I’m sure a big club in Europe will come knocking!

Tell you what, I won’t be losing any sleep if Carter loses form next year with so many options coming through

IMO the current front-runners should an earthquake knobble DC are Slade and Cruden. Slade's glass jaw and lack of rugby are a big concern ahead of the RWC - he'll need at least a couple of 3N games to stake a claim.

Cruden (surprisingly) was the most accurate NZ goalkicker at the end of the SXV regular season.

Bleyendaal will be interesting in the INL Cup, though Slade may get more game time initially, and through the comp if he misses RWC (both are contracted to Canterbury in INL cup). Bleyendaal got to spend a lot of time in-camp with the Crusaders, even though Blackadder didn't give him any game time.

I did the same mintie. Carter has re-signed with the NZRFU nottins so it´s a moot point. He might have a mini sabbatical to fill his boots with silver but he´ll be playing for a few more years yet.

Slade is my pick as his replacement. Watch his steadying of the ship along with Kaino when he came on in the Sydney 3N match last year. Cruden is still young and will have a chance to mature. Blyendaal is even younger. So I don´t think that´s going to be a problem.

Asking who would replace Carter is like saying who will replace Matfield, McCaw, BOD. You can´t replace pure class with equal class. There´ll always be a drop but that doesn´t mean it´s the end of the world. The Crusaders won games without Carter and McCaw this season and the ABs have done the same.

Colin Slade of the Crusaders?

nottins_jones wrote:Colin Slade of the Crusaders?

He moved to the Highlanders this season for SXV, though 2 broken jaws meant not much time on field. He's still (I think) with Canterbury for provincial rugby.

Nottins, Slade moved to the Highlanders to get out of Carter's shadow

Kia...that kiwireddevil is just too bloody fast for us here...merging all these threads before they even have a chance to get replies!

Kiwireddevil wrote:

nottins_jones wrote:Colin Slade of the Crusaders?

He moved to the Highlanders this season for SXV, though 2 broken jaws meant not much time on field. He's still (I think) with Canterbury for provincial rugby.

He strikes again!

chewed_mintie wrote:

Kiwireddevil wrote:

nottins_jones wrote:Colin Slade of the Crusaders?

He moved to the Highlanders this season for SXV, though 2 broken jaws meant not much time on field. He's still (I think) with Canterbury for provincial rugby.

He strikes again!

Don't worry mate, I'm off to run around a netball court in the rain shortly, you've got 2 or 3 hours to say your piece

Whats going on wrote a reply to thise thread and its appeared in a thread about a death in Motor racing.I`m sorry for the family of the person concerned.
BUT it was not my reply to it.

i think this belongs here was posted in motorsport by accident.


ALL the established alternatives to Dan Carter,are away after the RWC,Donald,Brett,Delaney,Berquist ,McAlister all going abrad for money.
Players that could cover him for a short period Weepu and Tony Brown,replacements or bench fillers next year Colin Slade and Aaron Crudon.
Neither Slade or Crudon are ordinary be fair they are only just beginning.
Slade has been injured most of the season,Crudon suffered from the internal struggle at Hurricanes,will be with blues or chiefs next year.
Crudon has worked on his game,especially his goal kicking which was most consistent in NZ at nearly 80 % bettered only by a few Bok kickers.
Bleyendahl is like Luke Whitelock part of Crusaders wider squad but not thrown in the deep end yet.
Anscombe, Sopanga,Kirk patrick,and Barrit give them a couple of years and they will be there too.
Post RWC years All Blacks usually work of there disappointment of not winning a RWC.By going and beating the holders .
Whilst rebuilding teams in 2004 they beat the holders and won there home games in 3Ns.
In 2008 the same but won the 3Ns despite losing to the Boks at home they won away game.
Indeed in all the 6 match 3Ns years they won all but 2009,title 2006 against the draw.

Thank you
Fernando my above post made it

Thanks for the heads up on New Zealand fly-halves. Although there's still the unliklihood of Carter missing the Tri-Nations or world cup; if so does Stephen Donald step in or Cruden? RE Carters sabbatical, has he recieved any offers from the North thus far?

He's a cutie that K , merging these threads for us then saying I had a good post

Henry has stated Donald has missed the bus,Slade or Crudon are the options.Both are likely to get game time in 3Ns and may even start the
dreaded rotation policy rears its ugly head.

I don't think we should worry too much. It seems someone comes along eventually. All those backups to Carter that are leaving are leaving because they know they have no show of stepping up. Even if they all stayed Cruden and Slade are the first choice backups at this stage.

Just as McCaw replace Kronfield and Kronfield replaced Jones another 10 will eventually replace Carter. Now our win rate may drop as low as 50% for a year or two but AB rugby will go on.

Mind you have we ever recovered from losing Fitzy?