webber says he ignored orders

Mark Webber says he is 'not fine' with Red Bull's request that he hold position behind team-mate Sebastian Vettel in the closing stages of the British Grand Prix and ignored the instruction.

Webber caught Vettel in the final laps and mounted several overtaking attempts without success.

The Australian said he had received "probably four or five" messages from the team asking him not to attack Vettel, but declined to follow them.

Asked how he felt about the team orders, Webber replied: "I am not fine with it, no. That is the answer to that.

"If Fernando [Alonso] retires on the last lap, we are fighting for the win.

"Of course I ignored the team because I wanted to try and get a place. Seb was doing his best, I was doing my best. I wasn't going to crash with anyone.

"I try to do my best with the amount of one way conversation I was having - I was trying to do my best to pass the guy in front."

Last year at Silverstone, Webber famously quipped "not bad for a number two" over the radio after winning the race in the wake of the qualifying day favouritism row, which erupted when Red Bull took the latest front wing off Webber's car to put on Vettel's after the German's example had failed in practice.

Asked if he felt 'like a number two' again, Webber said: "Not really. I just want to race until the end. Four or five laps to go, they started to chat to me about holding my position. I wanted the points but I also wanted to get some more points as well."

Vettel said he could understand why the team wanted them to avoid racing each other, but also that he was happy to battle.

"I try to stay ahead, nothing wrong with that," he said. "If you have the cars quite isolated in second and third, with the first guy away and the fourth guy pretty far away, from the team's point of view there is no point racing and doing something stupid.

"The difference between second and third is not massive but we naturally try to race. I tried to hold position. I was struggling, Mark was faster and then there was the chequered flag."

Vettel added that he could not understand why a furore was developing over the issue in the press conference.

"I finished second..." he responded when asked if the result was a 'sham'.

"As I said earlier, Mark tried to pass me, I could stay ahead. Clearly you could see he is quicker. If I would not be racing then I would just wave him past, so surely the last thing you want is to do something bad to the team?

"If it was the other way around, there is no point - of course I would like to overtake Mark at that stage, so no point trying to do something stupid. I don't see why there is such a fuss.

"I think we were racing. It was not a scheduled 'I move right, he moves right, I brake here, he brakes there...' He tried to race me as hard as he could, he didn't find a way past.

"To me at this stage it is quite amusing."

source: autosport

And so he should have, good on him i say. I cant help but feel Horner was protecting Vettel

Vettel showed today that he can't overtake and if he isn't leading from the front, he struggles.

A world champion who can't overtake, unbelievable

Same Horner was going crazy over Ferrari's tactics of letting alonso overtake Massa and now he is on the wrong side.

So much for the hypocrisy.

From what ive learnt though there are no rules against team orders now. HOWEVER, if you believe drivers should be allowed to race, regardless if there's no rules against it, you should still want your drivers to race.

Like Webber said what if Alonso goes out of the race in the last lap (we all know its possible and has happened before)...

McLaren are the only top team to let their drivers race as there is no clear Number 1 and Number 2 driver, which has both good and bad points to it. I completely agree with Mark, maybe for different reasons, but RBR are miles ahead in the constructors and drivers championships. Surely they'd prefer Vettel and Webber to finish 1st and 2nd in the drivers championship?

Belgarion of Riva wrote:Vettel showed today that he can't overtake and if he isn't leading from the front, he struggles.

A world champion who can't overtake, unbelievable

I don't know if any of you watch Top Gear, but Vettel was on yesterday, and Jeremy Clarkson asked him to be honest and say "how much is it your driving and how much of it is the car?"

Can't remember Vettels exact answer but I remember he didn't answer it directly at all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBUr6sDYcms

I have to say i feel sorry for Vettel. all this nonsense about being protected and not really earning his wins. He has comfortably won 5 out of his 6 races and one in which he was under tremendous pressure from Hamilton and held out.

He is clearly a more rounded driver than most out there as he manages to be just as quick without taking so much out of his tyres, (which are a real ssue this year). Is he the quickest driver? Perhaps, perhaps not. Alonso and Hamilton would argue the point. As regards the team Red Bull, well clearly Vettel is faster than Webber as the only stage when Mark was able to close was when Vettels KERS was malfunctioning.

It seems to my mind he is suffering from the other competitors not being able to compete (although Ferrari are improving). Much like the Klitchkos in boxing you can only beat whats in front of you, and Vettel has done that. Also i have to feel slightly sorry for Horner.

After the race in which they took eachother out im sure his bosses hauled him over the coals regarding it. Not unreasonable therefore to decide against letting them do the same with a few laps to go in the grand prix. It is slightly hypocritical considering the similarities between this incident and the Ferrari one last year but he is paid to ensure the best result for Red Bull. He got it. Job done.

Unless you see them in the same car no one can say anything about the drivers. Some cars are known to be worse on tyres then others. But we do know the redbulls aero is better, therefore you can put more speed into the corners.

SPeaking of tyres though, the myth that button is easier on his tyres was proven false in silverstone

The jury's still out on Vettel I'm afraid. It's not always about leading from the front and disappearing into the distance as he loves to. I'll never forget a comment he made; 'hopefully we do not have to overtake'. You will never hear Alonso or Hamilton make that sort of comment.

Alonso overtook Hamilton at Silverstone while Vettel was stuck to his gearbox, then had to pit to overtake on the under cut. A world champion in a superior car on a track where people were overtaking couldn't. Even Felipe almost made his move stick. Hamilton overtook Alonso on slicks using the wet part of the track as well. Button did the same to Massa but our world champion can't. Is it just me? Come on!!

Vettel can't come through the field and win a race and his race wins at the moment are due to a far superior car than his rivals. It's not his fault his rivals cars aren't good enough but Webber has shown that he can match Vettel in that car. That says it all really as Webber is an average driver.

The Button tyre myth was put to death at Canada last season Crticial_Mass. The people who believe he is better at preserving his tyres than Hamilton just use it as an excuse to bash hamilton

agree with all of that haha. Well wrote.

Can't help but feel Vettel is a time trialist, not a racer.

vettel is a worthy champion and the current championship leader. he was fifth in last year's championship and then won it in the last race of the season.

he and webber has the same car and webber has not been able to beat vettel even once.

vettel won a grand prix with torro rosso! only alonso with minardi and raikkonen with sauber managed good results with not so competitive cars.

wow wrote:vettel is a worthy champion and the current championship leader. he was fifth in last year's championship and then won it in the last race of the season.

he and webber has the same car and webber has not been able to beat vettel even once.

vettel won a grand prix with torro rosso! only alonso with minardi and raikkonen with sauber managed good results with not so competitive cars.

He won in a Torro Rosso in changeable conditions, it was a great achievement but Button won in the BAR Honda as well. He did it in the dry. Vettel has a car that is miles ahead of everyone but his team mate had to be warned off and Vettel was gifted the title last year as a result of bungled pit stops for Alonso and Webber.

A poster called him the lapper on 606 and the name is apt. He is great at setting fast lap times but fails when he has to race. His championship win last year is like Buttons the year before, questionable.

I disagree. He wins and he has shown in the past that he can overtake as well. His accident with Mark Webber at Turkey was the result of an overtaking manoeuvre only. And in his short career, he has overtaken almost all the drivers.

Even with changing conditions, his win at Torro Rosso was commendable. He always performed good even when he did not have competitive car.

People don't call him baby schumi for no reason. The fast car logic can be applied to anyone as even Hamilton's championship win came when he had the fastest car on the grid. Raikkonen, Alonso and Vettel won the championship without the fastest car. Hamilton is a racer like all his fans portray him but he is not intelligent as other drivers.

Where do I start from, Webber more than matched Vettel last season and beat him on a variety of occasions, losing the title due to a bungled pit stop.. Button won in the dry in a BAR Honda, Vettel's win was great but the conditions helped and as we've seen, the Torro Rosso is a useful package.

With all due respect to Webber, he is an average driver but he has been close to Vettel in that car which highlights Vettel's limited abilities. He is called the baby schumacher because he's a young German. He doesn't have Schumi's killer instinct or talent.

To say Hamilton is not as intelligent as other drivers is ridiculous. The overtakes he pulls off show a very high level of intelligence. However he needs to improve on his racecraft and will only get better as he gets older, hopefully Vettel does as well. Hamilton didn't have the fastest car when he won the championship, the Ferrari was more than a match for the Mclaren, just like the year before when Kimi won it. Hamilton has also demonstrated he can win in an uncompetitive car like the 2009 Mclaren.

Hamilton, Alonso and Button have demonstrated that they can win from the front and scythe through the pack in order to win a race. Vettel has not shown that yet and until he does, he is just a time trialist in a car almost a second faster than the field.

The lapper still has a lot to prove I'm afraid. The jury's still out on him

TSC wrote:McLaren are the only top team to let their drivers race as there is no clear Number 1 and Number 2 driver,

Yeah right.

The only reason they will let their driver race is when they both have enough points to challenge, just like every other team..

Belgarion of Riva wrote:Vettel showed today that he can't overtake and if he isn't leading from the front, he struggles.

A world champion who can't overtake, unbelievable

Got a short memory, haven't you Garion?

What about Barcelona where he overtook Button, Rosberg and Massa (I think - it was 3 cars at any rate) on his out-lap after pitting, to make sure he did't lose any time when Alonso and Hamilton came in for their stops.

As I recall he ended up winning that race...just...



Getting back to the team orders issue, I didn't buy Horner's explanation either. While I agree that team orders make sense in certain situations (i.e. if it will significantly affect the drivers' or constructors' standings), its far too early in the season...plus Vettel already has a huge lead. If Webber and Vettel had collided and both retired, Vettel would still have a sizeable lead and Webber's position wouldn't have been hurt much as McLaren were struggling.

The right thing to do in that situation IMHO was to let them race and I'm glad Webber ignored the order. To me, that was as bad as when Barrichello slowed down to let Schumacher past, or when Massa was ordered to let Alonso pass.

As a further note, team orders may be given, whether they're legal or not, openly, or using code phrases, but to use them so early in the season when there is still much to play for, just devalues the sport IMO.

Even more ridiculous when its a team that prides itself on allowing its drivers to race...and even more so when one of their drivers has a championship lead equal to 3 race wins!

Dryewolfe, why don't you highlight the entire comment. Vettel was unable to overtake Hamilton at Silverstone in a superior car. Alonso did it with relative ease and Webber (to a lesser extent because he was conserving fuel).

Vettel overtook those guys in Barcelona because they were on old tyres. His attempts at overtaking are quite comical and usually resort in someone going to the pits or him ending peoples races.

Vettel has never come through the field like Alonso, Button and Hamilton to win a race. Webber almost did it in China but Seb can't and has to be protected by Horner from the evil Webber.

I'm sorry, Vettel is great at leading from the front in a car faster than everyone else. However he cannot make an impression when coming through the field.

I honestly believe vettel and webber have different cars something is not right!

omar22 wrote:I honestly believe vettel and webber have different cars something is not right!

Webbers car has had so much trouble this year. You may be on to something. Remember at the start of the season, he kept having KERS problems or gearbox issues whilst Seb has basically had no issues to deal with apart from a dodgy KERS in China.

Very true.

Belgarion of Riva wrote:Dryewolfe, why don't you highlight the entire comment. Vettel was unable to overtake Hamilton at Silverstone in a superior car. Alonso did it with relative ease and Webber (to a lesser extent because he was conserving fuel).

Vettel overtook those guys in Barcelona because they were on old tyres. His attempts at overtaking are quite comical and usually resort in someone going to the pits or him ending peoples races.

Vettel has never come through the field like Alonso, Button and Hamilton to win a race. Webber almost did it in China but Seb can't and has to be protected by Horner from the evil Webber.

Irrelevant.

You said he can't overtake. I merely pointed out your statement was incorrect.

For the record, plenty of drivers have struggled on new tyres to overtake cars with older tyres, including Button and Hamilton.

dyrewolfe wrote:

Belgarion of Riva wrote:Dryewolfe, why don't you highlight the entire comment. Vettel was unable to overtake Hamilton at Silverstone in a superior car. Alonso did it with relative ease and Webber (to a lesser extent because he was conserving fuel).

Vettel overtook those guys in Barcelona because they were on old tyres. His attempts at overtaking are quite comical and usually resort in someone going to the pits or him ending peoples races.

Vettel has never come through the field like Alonso, Button and Hamilton to win a race. Webber almost did it in China but Seb can't and has to be protected by Horner from the evil Webber.

Irrelevant.

You said he can't overtake. I merely pointed out your statement was incorrect.

For the record, plenty of drivers have struggled on new tyres to overtake cars with older tyres, including Button and Hamilton.

I'll agree I was being harsh but Vettel's racecraft is poor and his attempts at overtaking are amusing to watch. Unfortunately the crash kids victims races are usually ended or they have to visit the pits.

Vettel has struggled with overtaking using new tyres/old tyres/bridgestones etc. He's great at leading from the front but cannot come through the field to win a race. I stand by that statement and until he does it, he is a time triallist and lapper ;-)

Belgarion of Riva wrote:Where do I start from, Webber more than matched Vettel last season and beat him on a variety of occasions, losing the title due to a bungled pit stop.. Button won in the dry in a BAR Honda, Vettel's win was great but the conditions helped and as we've seen, the Torro Rosso is a useful package.

With all due respect to Webber, he is an average driver but he has been close to Vettel in that car which highlights Vettel's limited abilities. He is called the baby schumacher because he's a young German. He doesn't have Schumi's killer instinct or talent.

Sorry but when did Button ever win for BAR in the dry? the 2006 Hungarian GP was in heavy rain. I think the points a bit inept anyway, to compare BAR with full backing from Honda and one of the biggest budgets in F1 to Torro Rosso with a car not developed by them and always behind in the development race with a lack of money to really make a big jump up the grid. Both great wins but a bad comparison. The Torro Ross was nothing more than the back of the top 10 car and Vettel won by a mile.

I don't think Webber's an average driver at all either, he's getting on a bit. But people forget he used to have a reputation as one of the best qualifiers on the grid, its just that Vettel is just about the best qualifier put's him in the shade.