The Mayweather vs Pacquiao Debate

First topic message reminder :

It is an issue that polarises the sport, and get the most headlines. It is because the are opposites in the the ring and out.

Inside the ring Mayweather is a defensive fighter, safety first, whilst Manny is an attacking fighting that brings the excitement. Outside the ring Manny is well liked, humble happy and at peace, whilst Mayweather seems angry brash, arrogant, mentally troubled and problems with the law.

It is no surprise since they seem to be polar opposites that they split opinion.

In this thread I would like to discuss how there careers match up and who would win should they eventually face each other in the ring.

D4thincarnation wrote:When Pacquiao misses with the jab he means to, you have to take that into consideration.

Another priceless gem from D4 to add to his already expansive collection

HumanWindmill wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:When Pacquiao misses with the jab he means to, you have to take that into consideration.

I know what you mean, D4.

Primo Carnera always said that he meant to be knocked down twelve times by Max Baer. Da Preem was trying to lull Max into a false sense of security, and he also wanted to make sure that when he knocked Max out it was in the optimal place for the photographers. His idea was hugely influential. Floyd Patterson used the same sneaky tactics in the first Johansson fight, as did Frazier against Foreman.

Manny is following a fine tradition by deliberately not hitting his opponent.

The jab is not always used as a weapon it can be used as a foil. Keep pumping out the jab, keep your opponent on the defensive and forces them to take action, it will also momentarily blind them to what is happening next.

I think most of you know this but just enjoy arguing against me

Suppose you hear all the coaches (inbetween rounds) shouting at their fighters "use the jab more, but don't hit him with it FFS!!!!"

Give me strength

imperialghosty wrote:Nobody misses a punch on purpose that's just a ridiculous statement

Mayweather has better punching technique also, being a counter puncher is a far harder skill than being an all out attack, this is where the lack of power along with fragile hands comes from.

Stop talking such tosh

Mayweather avoids a punch then counters.

Pacquiao can avoid punches and counter/attack at the same time.

No Pacquiao doesn't counter at all, have you ever watched a Mayweather fight

D4thincarnation wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

D4thincarnation wrote:When Pacquiao misses with the jab he means to, you have to take that into consideration.

I know what you mean, D4.

Primo Carnera always said that he meant to be knocked down twelve times by Max Baer. Da Preem was trying to lull Max into a false sense of security, and he also wanted to make sure that when he knocked Max out it was in the optimal place for the photographers. His idea was hugely influential. Floyd Patterson used the same sneaky tactics in the first Johansson fight, as did Frazier against Foreman.

Manny is following a fine tradition by deliberately not hitting his opponent.

The jab is not always used as a weapon it can be used as a foil. Keep pumping out the jab, keep your opponent on the defensive and forces them to take action, it will also momentarily blind them to what is happening next.

I think most of you know this but just enjoy arguing against me

Well, it's certainly fun jousting with you, D4, but in all seriousness there's a heck of a difference between feinting for openings and missing with a jab.

I think you know this but enjoy arguing with us.

HumanWindmill wrote:Well, it's certainly fun jousting with you, D4, but in all seriousness there's a heck of a difference between feinting for openings and missing with a jab.

He knows that but is saying compubox doesn't, and I think he's right.

Scottrf wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:Well, it's certainly fun jousting with you, D4, but in all seriousness there's a heck of a difference between feinting for openings and missing with a jab.

He knows that but is saying compubox doesn't, and I think he's right.

Thanks Scottrf.

It not like i'm saying punching thin air is a good thing.

Watch Lennox, he would just use his jab to push against his opponents guard, to keep them busy, blind them and set up other punches. On compubox this would class as a miss but it did exactly what it was meant to do.

You don't feint with the jab over 500 times in a fight without trying to hit your opponent especially when your not a cagey fighter

Scottrf wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:Well, it's certainly fun jousting with you, D4, but in all seriousness there's a heck of a difference between feinting for openings and missing with a jab.

He knows that but is saying compubox doesn't, and I think he's right.

That, of course, is absolutely true. I'm no fan of compubox, either.

Thing is D4, Pacquiao doesn't have a jab like Lewis did so the comparison doesn't really work

HumanWindmill wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:Well, it's certainly fun jousting with you, D4, but in all seriousness there's a heck of a difference between feinting for openings and missing with a jab.

He knows that but is saying compubox doesn't, and I think he's right.

That, of course, is absolutely true. I'm no fan of compubox, either.

I'm criticising compubox here.

Imperial

Just wait for if/when he loses. Excuse will probably be "Manny just couldn't get the jab going"

Then deny he ever had this debate...

D4thincarnation wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:Well, it's certainly fun jousting with you, D4, but in all seriousness there's a heck of a difference between feinting for openings and missing with a jab.

He knows that but is saying compubox doesn't, and I think he's right.

That, of course, is absolutely true. I'm no fan of compubox, either.

I'm criticising compubox here.

I realize that, D4 and, as I say, I do agree with you about compubox.

I'm not a huge fan of Compubox either but saying something as ridiculous as he misses his jab on purpose needs to be treated with the contempt it deserves.

imperialghosty wrote:I'm not a huge fan of Compubox either but saying something as ridiculous as he misses his jab on purpose needs to be treated with the contempt it deserves.

Compubox count them as misses but it does what Pacquiao wants of it, that why the compubox jab figures should be discounted.

D4 drop it, you don't deliberately miss with any punch

imperialghosty wrote:D4 drop it, you don't deliberately miss with any punch

Is a soldier missing while providing covering fire to keep the enemy pinned down?

This is boxing not war

Since when did an analogy have to be on the same topic?

Scottrf wrote:

imperialghosty wrote:D4 drop it, you don't deliberately miss with any punch

Is a soldier missing while providing covering fire to keep the enemy pinned down?

Compushot will count it as missing, but anyone with any understanding of military tactics will realise the soldier is doing exactly what is required

Would you then argue that La Mottas defence isn't actually that bad, he intends to get punched?

Scottrf wrote:

imperialghosty wrote:D4 drop it, you don't deliberately miss with any punch

Is a soldier missing while providing covering fire to keep the enemy pinned down?

Heard it all today, really have.

Scott, we know you're a bit of a fan but the guys providing covering fire don't try adn miss on purpose. They shoot at opposition fire in unison to provide cover.

Someone give me strength, or whiskey

Scott are you implying that when Pacquiao misses it's because he's actually trying to hit his opponent with an elbow? Careful you don't incur the lovesick wrath of a D4 on heat.

coxy0001 wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

imperialghosty wrote:D4 drop it, you don't deliberately miss with any punch

Is a soldier missing while providing covering fire to keep the enemy pinned down?

Heard it all today, really have.

Scott, we know you're a bit of a nuthugger but the guys providing covering fire don't try adn miss on purpose. They shoot at opposition fire in unison to provide cover.

Someone give me strength, or whiskey

What are you talking about?

They may not miss on purpose but they cover a general direction for the purpose of keeping the target subdued.

And no BALTIMORA, I'm saying it's not as simplistic as some people think. Most of the time he will be trying to hit but it's not always a boxers sole focus.

Scottrf

I only said a bit, calm down.

And no, they fire at wherever they were receiving gunfire from. Otherwise the opposition would have zero reason to be forced into cover if there weren't bullets flying at them.......

Against Clottey he landed 3% of jabs thrown... Out of 549 thrown i guess if he was trying to hit thin air/gloves on purpose it must then highlight how he ain't got a plan B - as the "blinding" jab really worked a treat etc!

Scott, I know it's not as simplistic as some may think, but the issue I have with what D4 spouts is that the truth of the matter is in now way as one-sided as he claims time after time after boring time.

If we're going to say that some of Pacquiao's misses are in fact intended to miss then it's unfair, unreasonable and biased to not apply the same criteria to Mayweather.

But then, that's D4 all over.

coxy0001 wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

imperialghosty wrote:D4 drop it, you don't deliberately miss with any punch

Is a soldier missing while providing covering fire to keep the enemy pinned down?

Heard it all today, really have.

Scott, we know you're a bit of a nuthugger but the guys providing covering fire don't try adn miss on purpose.

Unless they are the A Team

Have you ever seen it? It's normally large machine guns firing many bullets over a large area, not picking shots on one target. It's a good analogy, if it doesn't help anyone and people can only take things literally then so be it.

Don't know why you feel the need to keep giving me figures, I never said his jab was accurate.

Scottrf wrote:
Don't know why you feel the need to keep giving me figures, I never said his jab was accurate.

No, but D4 has said it several times, and that's why many have taken issue with him, for the umpteenth million time.

BALTIMORA wrote:

Scottrf wrote:
Don't know why you feel the need to keep giving me figures, I never said his jab was accurate.

No, but D4 has said it several times, and that's why many have taken issue with him, for the umpteenth million time.

No I didn't and I said Pacquiao doesn't use his jab to that effect.

Like I said I've backed up my statements with facts and reasoning and what do you have to counter my argument, "I don't like D4".

You've ignored facts on several occasions. Now you're choosing to ignore the fact you've done it. Nothing new there. Simple fact is that statistics have shown Mayweather to display better accuracy than Pacquiao. End of.

BALTIMORA wrote:You've ignored facts on several occasions. Now you're choosing to ignore the fact you've done it. Nothing new there. Simple fact is that statistics have shown Mayweather to display better accuracy than Pacquiao. End of.

Pacquiao 52.4 connect average

Mayweather 50.4 connect average

Thats the statistics in their last 5 fights on power punches.

Lets see if you ignore this fact.

Pacquiao landed 3% of jabs thrown against clottey.

No doubt D4 will now explain that he purposefully meant to miss the other 97%?

Last 9 fights (as finding stats beyond then is difficult)

48.44% for Manny to 51.77% to Floyd

But you choose to discount that because it doesn't suit your arguement. Just like how you choose to ignore jabs because it doesn't suit your arguement either.

Muppet.

Go away.

How many of Pacquiao's last five opponents had:

A) a pulse
B) head movement
C) any kind of intention of throwing a punch?

Answer? Not 5 out of 5.

Unless you're comparing like for like then the figures are meaningless, but then someone else has already done that, but you choose to ignore THOSE statistics.

Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:Pacquiao landed 3% of jabs thrown against clottey.

No doubt D4 will now explain that he purposefully meant to miss the other 97%?

Yes throw the jab, double jab or even treble against the guard move to the left or right and get the hooks round the guard and land.

Not only was it purposeful it was the tactic and the game plan, and it worked like a charm, Pacquiao won every round.

BOOOOOOOOOOOORING D4.

Honestly, there are other fighters in boxing outside of Manny and Mayweather.

BALTIMORA wrote:How many of Pacquiao's last five opponents had:

A) a pulse
B) head movement
C) any kind of intention of throwing a punch?

Answer? Not 5 out of 5.

Unless you're comparing like for like then the figures are meaningless, but then someone else has already done that, but you choose to ignore THOSE statistics.

The facts are all of them had the above and more, between them they had won close to 30 world titles. All naturally bigger than Pacquiao as well.

But you will ignore the facts again, no doubt.

Didn't really work against Clottey did it because his power shot percentage was also very poor

imperialghosty wrote:Didn't really work against Clottey did it because his power shot percentage was also very poor

Lower than average, but thats down to Clottey throwing very little and being ultra defensive, even though he was losing every round.

D4 where did you get this 52.4% from?

It's actually 49.2

So he can't unlock a tight defence like you made out

D4thincarnation wrote:

Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:Pacquiao landed 3% of jabs thrown against clottey.

No doubt D4 will now explain that he purposefully meant to miss the other 97%?

Yes throw the jab, double jab or even treble against the guard move to the left or right and get the hooks round the guard and land.

Not only was it purposeful it was the tactic and the game plan, and it worked like a charm, Pacquiao won every round.

He won every round because clottey
A) is cack
B) barely threw a punch the whole fight

Pacquiao didn't win that fight by missing 97% of his jabs, he won it by beating up a static, overmatched target.

Stick a fork in him, he's done.

But why didn't Clottey throw a punch? Does he normally not throw a punch?

He was overmatched but Pacquiao's output kept him covering up.

No Scott, Clotteys output was the same as it usually is

imperialghosty wrote:No Scott, Clotteys output was the same as it usually is

Except from that he threw two thirds of the amount he did in his previous fight which was also a 12 rounder.

Its been confirmed. Pac is the more accurate puncher (despite all available evidence and computer stats.

Pac throws more punches.

Pac punches harder

Pac can fight orthodox better that Floyd

Pac has better counter punching skills

Pac has a bigger one