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The Future of Wicket Keeping?

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Corporalhumblebucket
Gregers
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Post by Gregers Tue 26 Jul 2011, 8:49 pm

Could we be seeing the start of a new trend of batsmen who can wickie, rather than the wickie's who can bat that we look at at the moment. Its an obvious progression:

1970-Pre-Gilchrist --> Specialist Wicket Keepers

Gilchrist Era --> Searching for the 'holy grail' of a Gilchrist for every team of a destructive Wicket Keeper Batsmen

Post-Glichrist-Modern Day --> The age of Wicket Keeper Batsmen such as Prior, Dhoni etc. Good gloveman who can hit the ball hard but play good long innings when needed

Future --> The age of Batsmen who can Wickie fairly well (i.e. AB de Villiers)

Thoughts on this?

An example from the county game would be the yound Hampshire wickie, he is sensational behind the stumps but fairly poor with the bat so is unlikely to get the chances he would have got pre gilchrist.

Going the other way would teams have dared played a batsman such as AB as a part time wicket keeper even 5-10 years ago?

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Post by Corporalhumblebucket Tue 26 Jul 2011, 10:28 pm

Interesting article - but I am not wholly convinced by the analysis Gregor....

For instance I recall that Jim Parks played many tests for England and while he was OK as a keeper I don't think he was regarded as the best available in that department.

I do agree that outstanding keepers who can't bat at least reasonably well will continue to be an endangered species - they are obviously vulnerable in a situation where other batsmen's form dips....

There have been previous attempts to play batsman wicket keepers - notably Richard Blakey. That didn't work.

If we are talking about test matches I can't see many teams opting for a wicket keeper who can only keep fairly well. There's too much at steak from missed chances. If the batsman is that good but his keeping not much better than mediocre the player will simply be picked as a batsman.....

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Post by Gregers Tue 26 Jul 2011, 10:33 pm

Thankyou for the feedback, interestingly this was bought up on sky this evening r.e. Michael bates of Hampshire.

I think its more likely to be a t20/ODI thing than a test solution. Gilchrist raised the bar so high for what a modern wicket keeper must be.

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Post by Guest Tue 26 Jul 2011, 10:33 pm

im sorry but bates will never bat higher than 8

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Post by Gregers Tue 26 Jul 2011, 10:35 pm

Exactly my point cf, so does that mean that Bates should be disregarded as he doesn't fit into the keeper/batsmen that is required in the modern game?

Or can you get round this by having an extra all rounder?

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Post by Carrotdude Tue 26 Jul 2011, 10:42 pm

I think it is easier for an average wicket keeper who is a good batsman to improve his keeping than the other way around as Prior has shown. A team gains a lot more from a competent but not world beating keeper who consistently bats well than they do from the best keeper in the world who can't bat. Prior showed the benefit of having a great batsman as your keeper.

As long as your keeper is not dropping sitters consistently and is batting well then I think your fine. Chances will definitely be limited for someone like Bates.

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Post by dummy_half Tue 26 Jul 2011, 11:01 pm

Not sure it's all that modern a phenomenon - Alec Stewart wasn't half the keeper that Jack Russell was, but kept him out of the England team fro most of a decade by virtue of batting ability (Russell stumping Dean Jones off the bowling of Gladstone Small has to count as one of the most extraordinary bits of keeping of the last 25 years).

To some extent, it all rather depends on the balance of the team - if you had say Kallis and Vettori available (so a batting and a bowling all rounder), you could get away with picking your keeper primarily on glovework, but with the scarcity of genuine all rounders in the game now, the keeper/batsman has taken on the role of being the primary multi-purpose player in the side. I certainly can't see England selecting a keeper in the near future who would bat lower than 7, even if that meant some compromise on keeping ability.

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Wed 27 Jul 2011, 9:27 am

Prior is keepng wicket well too.

Infact what we have seen with tests is more of the specialist batsmen and part time keepers( AB, Sngakarra) quit keeping.

A keeper is expected to bat well now, but Prior is unique amongst the current lot in batting well enough that he might be considered as a batsman even if he werent keeping.
Maybe some of the weaker nations, like New Zealand with Mccullum, might select ther keeper as a pure batsman but that would be because of alack of decent batsmen not because hes an especially great one himself.

Prior is the only surrent player who averages over 40 as akeeper, he averages 45. Dont go thinking thats something normal.
Prior may have started out as a batsman who kept wicket sometimes ( didnt he start as an ODI opener?) but hes been ecpected to learn to keep properly to retain his place. Hes a very different and more complete player than the one who flumped against India last time.

I see it as just as likely youll get keepers who are goodglovemen but ecpected to improve their batting so they can average in the high 30's as much as mid 40's batsmen who are ecopected to improve their glovework to a reasonable standard. Test cricket is still about taking wickets, and a good keeper is a huge part of that.

Guys like Stewrat, AB, and Sangakaara all complained that keeping holds back their batting (and the stats back it up). Sides are taking agamble bygiving theirgloves to one of their star batsmen.Its a bt doffernet with Prior maybe because he never would have been given a chance as a test batsman without the keeping ( although hes developed into a player who would make a genuine top 6er now)

In limited overs the situation is very different. Theres alot more batsmen who are keeping wicket and more keepersselected for their batting. England are obsessed with having a big hitting keeper open the batting.


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Post by ShankyCricket Wed 27 Jul 2011, 11:23 am

Kieswetter,Davies,Bairstow are all proper batsmen and more than competent keepers.Prior isnt too old either.
So I think it would be almost impossible for Bates to get into the England side.

As far as SA is concerned,I dont think ABDV will keep for SA in Tests.They see him as the next Test captain(he is already the ODI and T20I captain)and also their next great batsman.So keeping would be too much of a burden for him.They have got Heino Kuhn who has got a very good f/c batting record.I think they see him as the future Keeper.

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Post by ShankyCricket Wed 27 Jul 2011, 11:27 am

Kieswetter,Davies,Bairstow are all proper batsmen and more than competent keepers.Prior isnt too old either.
So I think it would be almost impossible for Bates to get into the England side.

As far as SA is concerned,I dont think ABDV will keep for SA in Tests.They see him as the next Test captain(he is already the ODI and T20I captain)and also their next great batsman.So keeping would be too much of a burden for him.They have got Heino Kuhn who has got a very good f/c batting record.I think they see him as the future Keeper.

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