The Only Interesting Heavyweight Fight? : Wlad vs Vitali

Just a bit of fun here really, and probably done to death in the past, but I wanted to make a topic

Anyways, the only fight of interest at world level in the HW division is one that will never happen, still doesn't stop us discussing it though. Who do you think would win this fight right now and why? Do you even think this is the most interesting fight available at the weight?

I would personally opt for Vitali due to his incredible chin and the fact that I could see him simply walking Wlad down, and eventually breaking him down for a mid to late stoppage win. Although at the same time, I wonder how much power Wlad does hold in his hands, could he possibly stop Vitali dead in his tracks with a few rights? I think a younger version of Vitali would win 10 times out of 10, but at this stage in both careers, I feel it gets much more interesting. How do you guys see it going?

i believe if the klitschkos were made to fight i think that they would make sure the result is a draw, i personally don't think this would be an interesting fight as they are brothers and they would not try and it would be a bit of a fix, i think the best fight would be between a klitschko and povetkin or some superheavyweight like tyson fury/helenius (they're not ready yet, but that sort of build)

Whilst there is the possibility of a fix, I was thinking about this hypothetical as both men going for it! I definitely agree that a fight with a Klitschko and one of the bigger heavies would ccertainly be intriguing. I hope neither of those men you mentioned rush to face one of them at the moment though, as both will get hammered about the ring.

no fury and helenius aren't ready yet and might never be ready for either in their prime but in 2 years wlad will be 37 and if vitali is somehow still fighting he'll be 42

both men going for it - vitali round 10 wlad would be probably climb off the floor once or twice and the ref would stop it

when wlad fights he is like a emotionless robot calculating the chance of landing and throwing accordingly. vitali is a different kettle of fish, he is more agressive, trys to stay behind the jab, and sometimes does if he's successful, but if he is pushed out of his rhythm or caught with a big shot he gets angry and starts taking risks and trying to knock the other guys head of- and he normally does.

we talking currently or prime v prime? currently i would go for wlad points victory prime i would have vitali via knockout

I'm meaning currently. Prime vs prime only has one outcome and that's Vitali KO in my opinion.

i see the same result anytime to be honest

Can't say I disagree, yet at the moment, I think Wlad has a much better chance than he would at any other point of their careers.

yeah wlad does seem to be improving, which is impressive, as it shows he is still putting in the effort and has the focus, considering the lack of opposition you couldnt blame either of them for been slightly less motivated, but none of that. i just think vitali has the fighting mentallity which wlad lacks.

I believe Vitali would KO his brother at anytime in their careers, prime v prime or now v now, if their mother would let him.

I don't believe either would fight with real anger and agression, which means it would most likely be a pit patt hug kiss boxing match. This plays to Wlad's strengths as a boxer more than Vitali's as a fighter.

John Bloody Wayne wrote:I don't believe either would fight with real anger and agression, which means it would most likely be a pit patt hug kiss boxing match. This plays to Wlad's strengths as a boxer more than Vitali's as a fighter.

i assumed that as we are only talking hypothetically then they would both be fighting at their best. im reality your right. the taller one would probs win.

John Bloody Wayne wrote:I don't believe either would fight with real anger and agression, which means it would most likely be a pit patt hug kiss boxing match. This plays to Wlad's strengths as a boxer more than Vitali's as a fighter.

i assumed that as we are only talking hypothetically then they would both be fighting at their best. im reality your right. the taller one would probs win.

If they were both trying their absolute best then Vitali would most likely KO him at their best, I just can't see Vitali going at his own brother like he did against Lewis. Too much love!

just think of it as vitali vs lewis only wlad has a better jab and a more suspect chin and less heart for a scrap

Wlad has a better jab than Lewis?

Yeah, bit baffled by that statement myself!

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Wlad has a better jab than Lewis?

i think there is an arugment to be made there, if there is one thing wlad does well its jab- i'd be on lewis's side though.

Lewis controlled far better fighters with his jab than Wlad ever has, it's easy to look good against sub par opposition.

to be fair he dealt with haye using it, and it is the basis of his gameplan. i do agree lewis has the better jab, was just saying there could be a case made both sides

Haye wouldn't have been a top level heavyweight during the 90's which is the major difference, for Wlad it's a fairly defining fight for Lewis it would just be a run of the mill defence.

i wouldnt call haye run of the mill, he did perform very poorly against wlad, but i'd say ruiz and valuev would be classed as run of the mill in the 90's, haye is better than that. he wouldnt beat lennox, but he is a decent win for wlad none the less, and not a easy guy to control to the level that wlad did

Haye had beaten Ruiz and Valuev neither of whom were every any let alone into their late 30's, his heavyweight credentials are based more on his mouth than actual in ring ability compare him to say Mavrovic who was the european champion, he did at least come to fight Lewis rather than be passive for the full 12 rounds. He's a decent win for Wlad but he wouldn't be for Lewis, he is after all a lesser heavyweight than the likes of Bruno, Mason and Akinwande.

i'd put haye in lewis's top 5 wins if he'd beat him

Would be lucky to in Lewis' top ten wins let alone top 5.

i'd only have vitali, holyfield, possibly bruno, possibly tua infront. tyson came to late and mccall was to unusal to give them as better wins

Even an ageing Tyson is a more dangerous proposition than Haye not to mention the likes of Grants, Briggs, Biggs, Donavan, Weaver, Golota, Mercer and Morrison who were all proven heavyweights unlike Haye.

for me the likes of grant, briggs etc are just the same as the rest of the names on wlads cv, i think at that stage tyson no real threat to lewis- i'd say the win over haye and tyson are about equal acheivements, slightly leaning to haye.

The likes of Briggs and Grant were big strong heavy handed capable fighters something that can't be said of the overweight slobs that Wlad has made a career from beating. Tyson was at least a has been rather than a never was.

wlads had a few- rahman, peters, byrd, chambers, botha

not great but not bad, lewis does have the better cv, im not arguing that, i just think haye is a bit better than the "rest of the chumps" and a decent win for anyone. tyson wasn't a shadow of his former self, whereas haye was prime- granted there different calibre at the primes, but when they fought i'd say its a tougher night with haye.

Rahman and Botha both previously beaten by Lewis in far more impressive fashion whereas Peter and Chambers symbolise what's wrong with the heavyweight division both being hideously overweight. I just don't see what Haye has done to prove himself as a decent win for anyone other than Wlad, he talked himself into the fight but failed to deliver the only time he's faced a decent heavyweight.

true, but lewis's style is naturally more pleasing- wlad is a jab jab jab sort of guy and thats his tactic. it works but doesnt look good. haye is somewhat untested at heavyweight, although he acheivements at crusier cannot be questioned. i still give credit to haye for stopping ruiz, not for winning just stopping him, and think a win over valuev is half decent- wlad and vitali have been reluctant to fight him. he was a wildcard and very dangerous, alot of people where tipping haye- and with handsight its easy to say it was a easy win, but i just think wlads denfence was solid and a world class operator couldnt work it out.

I see the heavyweight divisions to all the others, been a proven lightweight can make you a legitimate challenger at light welterweight but being a proven light heavyweight or cruiserweight doesn't work in the same way at heavyweight because of the possibly massive size differences. That's why I rate many of Lewis' wins higher than a win over Haye because they were relatively proven at the weight rather than the weight below. You get someone like Mavrovic who is the match for any of Chagaev, Ibragimov or the likes but has something they don't an absolutely unbreakable chin.

true to a degree but one of lewis's best wins was over holyfield who started at crusier, and that takes nothing away from the win for lewis. i think if haye fights again against a decent opponent and wins in style then it will prove wlad is something special. if he loses then it will show that wlad is nothing more than the best of a bad bunch. i do feel sorry for wlad, as i do think he is talented (if not boring) but he will never have that chance to prove it in one big fight- he will need many "decent" wins and cannot afford an off day like lewis had.

Holyfield was a world class proven Heavyweight something that Haye is not. I personally feel sorry for Vitali rather than Wlad who is the better equipped of the two, he'd always give someone like Lewis a good fight before getting beaten but Wlad would be fortunate to see out 4/5 rounds such are his vulnerabilities.

If we're only talking about jabs, I actually think Wlad's is suprior or at least comparable to Lewis'.

Lewis' jab was one of a pawing nature (rather than piston) and he often would get careless with it, causing him to get out-jabbed at times by Bruno and caught by Rahman.

Wlad's jab is also used more as a range finder in which he can dictate distance. However, under the guidance of Steward, he always keeps it pumping and rarely appears to get lazy or careless with it.

I'm not also really convinced that the majority of Lewis' latter opponents (a shot Tyson, Rahman, Morrison, Tua, Botha, Grant, Mavrovic, Briggs, Golota etc.) were any great deal better than the current crop of contenders.

Even than, some of these opponents were blown out early (Botha, Grant, Golota etc) rather than being systematically boken down with the jab.

The fight with David Tua is often used as the example to showcase the strength of Lewis' jab. However, Tua had already shown vulnerability in this area having previously struggled badly with the jabs of Rahman and Maskaev...... men who are hardly known to possess great ones.

Tua also came into that fight so grossly overweight, that he makes Sam Peter look like a Mr Olympia contestant.

It might have been more interesting if Tua came in at is ideal weight (around 225) rather than 20lbs above that.

Lewis beat good fighters while Wlad has beaten absolute rudey poo, the two really aren't comparable.

fighters like golota were much better than the fighters of today, perhaps weak mentaly, but showed in beating bowe round the ring in the two fights before getting DQ that he had talent.

watched golota v bowe fights recently, great entertainment, not seen a fight like that at heavyweight for a while

Lewis beat the better opposition.

But I still don't rate most of the guys he beat either.

A shot Tyson, Akinwande, Botha, Grant, Rahman and co were not good fighters.

compelling and rich wrote:fighters like golota were much better than the fighters of today, perhaps weak mentaly, but showed in beating bowe round the ring in the two fights before getting DQ that he had talent.

watched golota v bowe fights recently, great entertainment, not seen a fight like that at heavyweight for a while

Problem with Golota is that he was too erratic and would often have mental breakdowns during his fights. If he fought against every opponent as he did against Bowe than he could have had a far more succesful career.

When he fought Lewis, he simply frooze and allowed Lewis to tear right through him.

He would do the same thing a few years later against Lamon Brewster.

A boxer's mental strength is just as important as any other factor.

J.Benson II wrote:

compelling and rich wrote:fighters like golota were much better than the fighters of today, perhaps weak mentaly, but showed in beating bowe round the ring in the two fights before getting DQ that he had talent.

watched golota v bowe fights recently, great entertainment, not seen a fight like that at heavyweight for a while

Problem with Golota is that he was too erratic and would often have mental breakdowns during his fights. If he fought against every opponent as he did against Bowe than he could have had a far more succesful career.

When he fought Lewis, he simply frooze and allowed Lewis to tear right through him.

He would do the same thing a few years later against Lamon Brewster.

A boxer's mental strength is just as important as any other factor.

brewster i would say is slighty harsh as it was nearly ten years on from his prime around the bowe fight, but i do agree with about mental side, said it about tyson in the past. but still stand by that he was alot more talented than the current peters etc of today. even some of his losses he had his oppenents in alot of trouble, dont know how the bowe fight wasnt stopped (cant remember if it was 1 or 2), had grant down, ruiz down twice if only he could captalise better the only defeats he would have had would have been tyson, lewis and brewster, not a bad record. as you say though his mental fragilities let him down

Grant was highly rated until he got taken apart by Lewis, he's a clear level above anyone whom Wlad has beaten, as are most of the names you seem to be discrediting.

compelling and rich wrote:

J.Benson II wrote:

compelling and rich wrote:fighters like golota were much better than the fighters of today, perhaps weak mentaly, but showed in beating bowe round the ring in the two fights before getting DQ that he had talent.

watched golota v bowe fights recently, great entertainment, not seen a fight like that at heavyweight for a while

Problem with Golota is that he was too erratic and would often have mental breakdowns during his fights. If he fought against every opponent as he did against Bowe than he could have had a far more succesful career.

When he fought Lewis, he simply frooze and allowed Lewis to tear right through him.

He would do the same thing a few years later against Lamon Brewster.

A boxer's mental strength is just as important as any other factor.

brewster i would say is slighty harsh as it was nearly ten years on from his prime around the bowe fight, but i do agree with about mental side, said it about tyson in the past. but still stand by that he was alot more talented than the current peters etc of today. even some of his losses he had his oppenents in alot of trouble, dont know how the bowe fight wasnt stopped (cant remember if it was 1 or 2), had grant down, ruiz down twice if only he could captalise better the only defeats he would have had would have been tyson, lewis and brewster, not a bad record. as you say though his mental fragilities let him down

I think Golota's fight with Grant summed him up. A talented boxer that just lacked the physological make-up to be succesful at the highest level (during any era).

I know the Brewster fight was 10 years after the Bowe affair, but the Pole went into that fight in good form after strong performances against Ruiz and Byrd.

Anyway, the point I was originally making is that if the likes of Golota and Tua are considered good wins for Lewis, than surely Wlad deserves some credit for beating the likes of Brewster and Byrd (even though he had two attempts at the former).

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Grant was highly rated until he got taken apart by Lewis, he's a clear level above anyone whom Wlad has beaten, as are most of the names you seem to be discrediting.

I think Grant was a bit like Lacy, he was highly rated more based on his apparence than his boxing ability.

He barely had any amateur background and only turned to boxing because his career in American football failed.

In a couple of years, the Americans will probably start hyping up Seth Mitchell and Deontay Wilder in a similar manner. It doesnt make them good fighters (although Wilder is more talented than Grant).

i agree for me there wlads best wins, suppose my point about golota was he was a very dangerous oppenent to take on, just depends on which turned up. the golta v bowe would beat all the current heavys bar the k brothers for me, and he still had a live punchers chance against wlad

Whereas which of Wlads opponents have been hyped up at all? Grant was a vastly superior fighter to any of the current bar the brothers, he had power, speed, work rate and very good conditioning much like Briggs. They both get taken apart by Lewis then they're suddenly useless, they along with Golota were touted to beat Lewis which speaks of the way in which they were rated at the time.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Whereas which of Wlads opponents have been hyped up at all? Grant was a vastly superior fighter to any of the current bar the brothers, he had power, speed, work rate and very good conditioning much like Briggs. They both get taken apart by Lewis then they're suddenly useless, they along with Golota were touted to beat Lewis which speaks of the way in which they were rated at the time.

I don't really judge boxers based on hype.
There have been a dozen American HW's over the past decade that have been hyped up as future champions including Chris Arreola, Tye Fields and Dominic Guinn.
Michael Grant was just one of many.

Besides, if we're talking about hype, David Haye was hyped up hugely and many predicted that he would be Wlad's conquerer. He is also a far superior boxer to Grant.

A superior fighter p4p I may agree but at heavyweight he had proved nothing and whilst he hyped himself not many gave him a realistic chance of beating Wlad, Grant had beaten Golota as well as few other decent fighters in Izon and Savarese who had Haye beaten the world beaters of Ruiz and Valuev.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:A superior fighter p4p I may agree but at heavyweight he had proved nothing and whilst he hyped himself not many gave him a realistic chance of beating Wlad, Grant had beaten Golota as well as few other decent fighters in Izon and Savarese who had Haye beaten the world beaters of Ruiz and Valuev.

I agree that Haye's level of opposition at HW isnt inspiring, but he was still hyped up considerably going into the bout.
Its easy to be dismissive of him now but he was seen as having the physical tools and talent to beat Wlad.

I remember even the likes of Peter and Brock were once considered good enough to give Wlad a knockout loss.

Grant's biggest win prior to Lewis was Golota but that was more down to the big Pole self destructing (yet again) rather than anything else. I actually thought his fight with Golota exposed him (and his chin), so I wasnt really surprised by the beatdown he eventually took from Lewis.

Grant was a gifted athlete, but was never really a natural boxer.