Wlad vs Vitali

Ok gents I am sure this topic has probably been covered before but I'm curious for your opinons.

This isn't a question of who's record is better.

This is a head to head, peak for peak.

Wlad hits harder and is faster, though Vitali is more unorthodox and is a hell of a lot tougher.

I would pick Vitali to Ko Wlad within 7-8 rounds.

Prime Wlad probably hits harder, but I'm not convinced he hits that much faster. Plus I rate Vitali has better reflexes. Wlad has the reach advantage, but the difference is negligible... Vitali wins, how quickly depends on which fight he fights. Eventually, though, Vitali decides f.cuk this, lets fly and slaughters little brother.

kingraf wrote:Prime Wlad probably hits harder, but I'm not convinced he hits that much faster. Plus I rate Vitali has better reflexes. Wlad has the reach advantage, but the difference is negligible... Vitali wins, how quickly depends on which fight he fights. Eventually, though, Vitali decides f.cuk  this, lets fly and slaughters little brother.

Pretty much what I think. Wlad arguably the better athlete but Vitali the harder man and more of a natural fighting man.

The Vitali that fought Lewis would be a harder opponent for Wlad than he was for Lewis that night. The Vitali that fought Chisora would have been torn apart by Wlad. It depends how you define "peak" Vitali. I've not seen anything resembling the depths he had to go to for the Lewis fight, impressing me with his toughness and ability to rough house and send it up Lewis, only then to never have been taken there after lining up can after can and just knocking them out.

Wlad on the other hand, does have a defined peak. The Haye fight for me was the best Wlad. If we take early Wlad who had the power but less of the technique then you can argue that power wins him the fight against Vitali, but then you have to consider the technique and speed (which is surprising for a guy his size) has won him fights since with absolute ease.

I'd say its a Vitali KO in 6/7 rounds but I wouldn't rule out Wlad dominating it until that point and if he stays on his bike, potentially winning a UD.

Its awfully difficult to pick Vitali's peak, i would say beating Corrie Sanders, or Samuel Peter are arguably his best 2 performances, and there was a fair few years of inactivity between those two.
Anyway way without answering my own question i would pick Vitali to take the little bro out quite early, maybe between 5 and 7. Once Wlads on queer street his brother would give him everything he could handle. (that doesnt sound quite right)

For the people who back Vitali, at what point do you think the passing of the torch took place?

Prime for prime vitali by KO, since vitali came back from injury I think wlad by ud. Vitali has the chin but just slowed down. The peter fight as returning statement looked great, but he was hardly mobile. Wlads always seemed the better boxer and more athletic, the latter half of vk's career, I just don't see him getting to that chin. Pre 2004, he smashes it.

That's a difficult fight to call right there between the two lumbos. Against the grain I could see the younger bombing Vitali out early and exploding the myth of Vitali's chin. Then again Vitali could weather the storm and then go about ruthlessly breaking down his younger sibling. I wouldn't like to call it for fear of disagreeing with myself in five minutes time.

I don't think Vitali has ever really had a peak. The time which probably would have been his peak is when he retired.
Wlad is probably in his peak now, but due to the lack of decent opponents, its hard to really say how good he is.

Gun to the head, i think i would go for Wlad slightly.

Peak Vitali beats Wlad, IMO. Wlad hits very hard, but Vitali proved v Lewis he can't be sparked by one punch. Also, Vitali would land on Wlad and we know what happens when a heavy hits Wlad clean. Vitali all day.

Vitali stops a tired Wladimir on his feet late on, for me. TKO in round 10 or something like that.

I don't think Wladimir's power will be that much of an issue here. In general, the best guys Wlad has fought even in his prime years (Ibragimov, Haye, Povetkin) have taken him the distance and none of them have got Vitali's set of whiskers. On the other hand, it's no secret that Vitali could stop Wlad.

Wladimir has got the better all-round skill set so he could win it on points, but he's been able to use the same kind of pattern over and over again facing guys who suit him stylistically. Vitali's pretty loose at the waist and if he started pulling back successfully from Wlad's jab and punching with him I don't think Wladimir would be able to think quickly on his feet and adapt.

I think Vitali's basically a bit too resilient and tough for Wladimir. He won't be put in to his shell by Wlad's power and his durability should see him take Wlad in to deep waters late on. I think it's a pretty even fight for about eight, nine rounds or so before Vitali just outlasts Wlad and wears him down to the stoppage.

Vitali inside 3/4 rounds for me.

I would not be surprised if Vitali even finish it in 2 rounds, my view is that if both play sequence of matches

1st match - both will trade blows and Vitali will hold Wlad where 1 power punch of Vitali will finish of Wlad.

2nd Match - Wlad will come more prepared so the match will last longer but then again Vitali will knock him out in 6-7 rounds.

3rd match - Wlad will have trained and covered all grounds and the match to go 12 rounds and might win by UD.

I used to think vitali, easily.... just more of a beast and great chin ( though pele Reid did spark him with a kick!). However... Wlad was always the better boxer. The intangible for me is how well manny's jab and grab technique works for wlad against a guy of equal size and strength. If it does, and he can nullify big bro, then he wins a comfortable points decision. If it doesn't... Well he gets softened up and stopped.

Gun to head, you pick the natural fighter over the natural boxer... So I err to vitali But closer call than I once thought.

Wlad could keep coming back for a million Sundays, it ends the same every time. Nightmare on queer street. We aren't talking about little Alexander, or cautious Haye, big brother is stronger. He can't just be leaned on until he tires. Vitali will bully Wlad to submission.

Even the UD theory doesn't fly. One thing controlling the ring against Mormeck, or that oaf Wach. A complete other against a guy who's never lost more than two rounds in his career. Wlad is the harder hitter, possibly the better athlete (although Vitali is a six time world champion across two sports), but he matches up badly against Vitali,

I view this on one thing alone: which is the tougher borther. I know which one I'd want on my side in a bar fight and it isn't Wlad...

milkyboy wrote:I used to think vitali, easily.... just more of a beast and great chin ( though pele Reid did spark him with a kick!).t.

Amazing, in kickboxing he KO's Vitali, in boxing he gets trashed about by such talents as John Mcdermott!

kingraf wrote:Wlad could keep coming back for a million Sundays, it ends the same every time. Nightmare on queer street. We aren't talking about little Alexander, or cautious Haye, big brother is stronger. He can't just be leaned on until he tires. Vitali will bully Wlad to submission.

Even the UD theory doesn't fly. One thing controlling the ring against Mormeck, or that oaf Wach. A complete other against a guy who's never lost more than two rounds in his career. Wlad is the harder hitter, possibly the better athlete (although Vitali is a six time world champion across two sports), but he matches up badly against Vitali,

Which two rounds were that kingy? The Lewis fight? The Byrd fight? The sanders fight,  the chisora fight... Or the hide fight where he lost 100% of the completed rounds  . Vitali lost very few rounds but like wlad, he fought very few good fighters. Neither bro has lost many rounds (well if we disclude the ones where wlad got put on his 'arris.)

Its conjecture to say how wlad's technique would handle someone of vitali's size and strength. But its conjecture to say vitali walks through him, when he was walking through  his own personal selection of dwarfs and cart horses. Wlad was the better boxer, in my view, so if he can stay out of trouble he wins in my opinion. A big if, which is why I erred to vitali.

John Bloody Wayne wrote:

milkyboy wrote:I used to think vitali, easily.... just more of a beast and great chin ( though pele Reid did spark him with a kick!).t.

Amazing, in kickboxing he KO's Vitali, in boxing he gets trashed about by such talents as John Mcdermott!

He picked the wrong sport jbw. Well he picked the one with the money. His boxing skills looked limited as a kick boxer, but the kick he dropped klitschko out with was a beauty. A genuine 'timberrrrr' moment.

I remember just thinking it was an urban myth that Vitali had been sparked back in his kickboxing days. And then bang - there it was on YouTube.

What made it better was the fact that, just a couple of weeks before the video surfaced, Vitali had been asked about it and said something along the lines of, "What actually happened was that Pele kicked me hard in the knee and it made me buckle momentarily, that was all." Or something like that, anyhow. Either way, it was a long way removed from what the video showed!

88Chris05 wrote:I remember just thinking it was an urban myth that Vitali had been sparked back in his kickboxing days. And then bang - there it was on YouTube.

What made it better was the fact that, just a couple of weeks before the video surfaced, Vitali had been asked about it and said something along the lines of, "What actually happened was that Pele kicked me hard in the knee and it made me buckle momentarily, that was all." Or something like that, anyhow. Either way, it was a long way removed from what the video showed!

to be fair the tournament was a semi contact one and the guy who knocked him out did a reverse hook kick at full power.

It was an urban myth... created by vitali... That it didn't happen!

Didn't he say something like pele who? When asked about it. Then 'oh yeh, a kick on the thigh' . You can see why he wants to be a politician.

That's the one, milky. My bad - he said thigh, not knee.

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

88Chris05 wrote:I remember just thinking it was an urban myth that Vitali had been sparked back in his kickboxing days. And then bang - there it was on YouTube.

What made it better was the fact that, just a couple of weeks before the video surfaced, Vitali had been asked about it and said something along the lines of, "What actually happened was that Pele kicked me hard in the knee and it made me buckle momentarily, that was all." Or something like that, anyhow. Either way, it was a long way removed from what the video showed!

to be fair the tournament was a semi contact one and the guy who knocked him out did a reverse hook kick at full power.

Now I don't follow kick boxing... But I can see that might be a bit cheeky. He wasn't disqualified though was he? And really what would vitali have done differently to not get knocked out had been full contact? Long and the short of it, he was sparked out (albeit by a kick) and lied about.

milkyboy wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

88Chris05 wrote:I remember just thinking it was an urban myth that Vitali had been sparked back in his kickboxing days. And then bang - there it was on YouTube.

What made it better was the fact that, just a couple of weeks before the video surfaced, Vitali had been asked about it and said something along the lines of, "What actually happened was that Pele kicked me hard in the knee and it made me buckle momentarily, that was all." Or something like that, anyhow. Either way, it was a long way removed from what the video showed!

to be fair the tournament was a semi contact one and the guy who knocked him out did a reverse hook kick at full power.

Now I don't follow kick boxing... But I can see that might be a bit cheeky. He wasn't disqualified though was he? And really what would vitali have done differently to not get knocked out had been full contact? Long and the short of it, he was sparked out (albeit by a kick) and lied about.

I think anyone would have been ko'd by that kick. I did taekwondo and went to many tournaments and no one gets back up from a hook kick at full power to the head.

I don't doubt that champagne, no-one has looked like doing it with a punch.

Just questioning whether the fact it was semi-contact made any difference. No shame in being sparked by a kick, but vk obviously thought there was.

milkyboy wrote:I don't doubt that champagne, no-one has looked like doing it with a punch.

Just questioning whether the fact it was semi-contact made any difference. No shame in being sparked by a kick, but vk obviously thought there was.

My guess is that VK said he was not ko'd by it not because he was ashamed but maybe to increase his marketability. He is seen as this rock who can't be hurt and that is how he sales himself, perhaps if he admitted he had been hurt before and ko'd he maybe felt that he would not be as marketable and thus would lose money.

Embarrassment, marketability, not wanting opponents to think he could be knocked out. Maybe a combination of all three.

88Chris05 wrote:That's the one, milky. My bad - he said thigh, not knee.

Jeez Chris, even I'm not that pedantic bud!  I was picking up on the fact he pretended to not know the name of the guy who knocked him out... Not getting picky over what part of the anatomy he claimed he was hit on. Let's call it upper knee... Or Lower thigh!

Ha ha, I know you weren't getting picky milky. My little 'my bad' concession wasn't directed towards anyone really, mate....Except maybe Vitali in case he's now using his political power to monitor anyone in the world who mentions his KO loss as he obviously didn't want anyone talking about it.

Has anyone else got a small red dot of light appearing on their chest which seems to be coming in through the window and from the other side of the road?.....

I'm guessing he's got bigger things to worry about at the moment Chris. The red dot, is unlikely to be a sniper's laser... More likely truss, stalking you again with his night vision scope.

Well I did ask Truss to follow me. But what with him being a bit old-fashioned he didn't cotton on that I was talking about Twitter.

I've always believed Vitali was the better fighting man. Vitali relishes a fight. By comparison I reckon Wlad over thinks things and actually looks like he doesn't really like fighting.

Wlad peak was against Haye.

Vitali peak is a difficult one, as mentioned.

Great fight against Lewis.....great performance on his comeback.....even better performance against Adamek.

Tough SOB.

Vitali via LKO.

kingraf wrote:Wlad could keep coming back for a million Sundays, it ends the same every time. Nightmare on queer street. We aren't talking about little Alexander, or cautious Haye, big brother is stronger. He can't just be leaned on until he tires. Vitali will bully Wlad to submission.

Even the UD theory doesn't fly. One thing controlling the ring against Mormeck, or that oaf Wach. A complete other against a guy who's never lost more than two rounds in his career. Wlad is the harder hitter, possibly the better athlete (although Vitali is a six time world champion across two sports), but he matches up badly against Vitali,

Don't think there is any proof at all Vitali is physically stronger, every fighter who faced Wlad comment on his physical strength, not heard many Vitali opponents say similar things, he's the far lankier of the two, he's an inch taller with a better chin but it doesn't mean he's stronger. Wlad is not just a better puncher, but significantly better, generally when he opens up guys go to sleep, Vitali simply hits guys with hundreds of punches before they fall down from exhaustion or the corner stop it. So he wouldn't have the danger of guys who have big one shot power like Sanders and Brewster. I honestly don't think it's a bad fght for Wlad and i think he would win, he's far more aggressive with taller guys and spends less time wrestling with them, Vitali was down against Sanders and hurt numerous times against Lewis. So the KO is possible either way but i think Wlad wins a decision.

milkyboy wrote:

kingraf wrote:Wlad could keep coming back for a million Sundays, it ends the same every time. Nightmare on queer street. We aren't talking about little Alexander, or cautious Haye, big brother is stronger. He can't just be leaned on until he tires. Vitali will bully Wlad to submission.

Even the UD theory doesn't fly. One thing controlling the ring against Mormeck, or that oaf Wach. A complete other against a guy who's never lost more than two rounds in his career. Wlad is the harder hitter, possibly the better athlete (although Vitali is a six time world champion across two sports), but he matches up badly against Vitali,

Which two rounds were that kingy? The Lewis fight? The Byrd fight? The sanders fight,  the chisora fight... Or the hide fight where he lost 100% of the completed rounds  . Vitali lost very few rounds but like wlad, he fought very few good fighters. Neither bro has lost many rounds (well if we disclude the ones where wlad got put on his 'arris.)

Its conjecture to say how wlad's technique would handle someone of vitali's size and strength. But its conjecture to say vitali walks through him, when he was walking through  his own personal selection of dwarfs and cart horses. Wlad was the better boxer, in my view, so if he can stay out of trouble he wins in my opinion. A big if, which is why I erred to vitali.

Mate - the Hide fight lasted two rounds, one of which ended the fight. I meant he hasn't lost more than two rounds in a fight in his career. Wladimir has achieved more, and as such deserves to be rated higher than Vitali. But let's not kid ourselves, he's on a hiding to nothing against Vitali.
Vitali had half his face opened against Lewis and kept charging. Wlads jab isn't keeping him off, and he sure as hell isn't winning a clinch contest. Vitali in half-a-dozen rounds, unless Wlad lands a hook kick.

Hide had one of the worst heavyweight chins alongside Jeremy Williams, the "KO punch" didn't seem to even land. Your probably right with the two rounds, but he would have if he continued against Lewis, so it's misleading. Vitali usually fought the bigger punchers but hardly ever guys who could box, Byrd made him miss constantly and he constantly take on garbage and gets away with it while his brother fought the divisions top contenders. Why couldn't he win in a clinch contest? Vitali doesn't fight on the inside and as i said there is nothing i have ever seen to make me think Vitali is physically stronger, he kept charging in to punches and that's why he got stopped. I feel like I'm slating Vitali here but i thought he fought a bad fight against Lewis, he fought a brave courageous fight but got hit by way to many punches, Wlad would be nowhere near as lazy with his jab as Lewis was. They both mark up easily so it could end on cuts but for me i think Wlad wins maybe 7/10.

Wlad said Vitali is stronger. Seems a realistic comment. Videos of them sparring also lends credence to the fact that Vitali is stronger. Sammy Peter got Wlad to kiss the turf three times, and that was with Emmanuel there.

Yea and Vitali says Wladimir is, they both complement each other and say each other is better. That's not to do with physical strength, never said Vitali didn't have the better chin, though two of the KD's were illegal punches. Are there videos of them sparring? genuine question.. though as far as i know the last time they sparred Wlad was still a teenager so hardly a fair comparison as he is 4 years younger.

kingraf wrote:

milkyboy wrote:

kingraf wrote:Wlad could keep coming back for a million Sundays, it ends the same every time. Nightmare on queer street. We aren't talking about little Alexander, or cautious Haye, big brother is stronger. He can't just be leaned on until he tires. Vitali will bully Wlad to submission.

Even the UD theory doesn't fly. One thing controlling the ring against Mormeck, or that oaf Wach. A complete other against a guy who's never lost more than two rounds in his career. Wlad is the harder hitter, possibly the better athlete (although Vitali is a six time world champion across two sports), but he matches up badly against Vitali,

Which two rounds were that kingy? The Lewis fight? The Byrd fight? The sanders fight,  the chisora fight... Or the hide fight where he lost 100% of the completed rounds  . Vitali lost very few rounds but like wlad, he fought very few good fighters. Neither bro has lost many rounds (well if we disclude the ones where wlad got put on his 'arris.)

Its conjecture to say how wlad's technique would handle someone of vitali's size and strength. But its conjecture to say vitali walks through him, when he was walking through  his own personal selection of dwarfs and cart horses. Wlad was the better boxer,  in my view, so if he can stay out of trouble he wins in my opinion. A big if, which is why I erred to vitali.

Mate - the Hide fight lasted two rounds, one of which ended the fight. I meant he hasn't lost more than two rounds in a fight in his career. Wladimir has achieved more, and as such deserves to be rated higher than Vitali. But let's not kid ourselves, he's on a hiding to nothing against Vitali.
Vitali had half his face opened against Lewis and kept charging. Wlads jab isn't keeping him off, and he sure as hell isn't winning a clinch contest. Vitali in half-a-dozen rounds, unless Wlad lands a hook kick.

See the wink smiley thing kingy... that's universal internet speak to indicate the comment is light hearted. I watched the hide fight when you were soiling nappies. I know how long it lasted. You're welcome to your opinion on who wins between the brothers. As you will note, I agree with you on the likely outcome. I don't believe its the foregone conclusion you think its is. Neither has fought anyone like the other. I'm stating it as my opinion rather than stating it as fact. Mate.

I've heard Wladmir say Vitali is the stronger a few times now, can't say I've heard Vitali pay it back in kind.

I saw a video of them sparring. Seemed roughly the same height, so I assume it was post adolescence. Wlad is obviously a strong man, fills out his 6'6 frame well, just don't see him being stronger than big broski.

My Peter comment was more with regard to the fact that Wladmir really isn't a 250lbs Mayweather, he is still there to be hit, but you have to be hella brave. Haye got dropped at cruiserweight, he couldn't risk walking into a Wlad hit (Wlad does after all hit like an anvil, I dont think anyone could deny that). Povetkin braved his way in, but he lacked the strength, or the skill, or the athleticism, or the tactics, or the chin, or the stamina to do anything. Nonetheless, Povetkin didn't exactly get his face tattooed by the jab, and he just kept walking in. Wlad doesn't like close quarters, when doesn't have an obvious advantage.

Milky - I must admit, I can't see any emoticons at the minute. Using the mobile.

I generally trend towards giving fighters a chance in general, and don't think I've given any other fighter no chance in any other fight, whether fantasy, or upcoming. I just don't see how Vitali loses to Wladimir, and I really do like Wlad. I really think he could have an infinite amount of goes at it, and they all end face down.

... But then you couldn't see how stevenson could beat Dawson either. As you can't see emoticons, please imagine a smiley one inserted here.

alright, let me rephrase

Unless Wlad knocks out Vitali in 76 seconds...
He does up knocked out, most likely not long after 76 seconds

alright, let me rephrase

Unless Wlad knocks out Vitali in 76 seconds...
He does up knocked out, most likely not long after 76 seconds

alright, let me rephrase

Unless Wlad knocks out Vitali in 76 seconds...
He does up knocked out, most likely not long after 76 seconds

I genuinely believe this could be a fight that goes either way. Shame we'll never get to see it, but here's my take on it:

Steward described Wlad as having the hardest punch of any fighter he'd trained. Now, this comment needs to be taken with a pinch of salt as he was his trainer at the time, but I think it would be fair to say that in terms of flat out punch power, Wlad would be somewhere near the top of the tree. Vitali lost to an old Lewis, because his face was a mess. I think it is possible that Wlad could do that to his brother too. I know Wlad has not faced someone with the size and talent of his brother, but he has outclassed and knocked out some seriously tough dudes over the years, and while Vitali has shown an iron-chin, every fighter can be hurt.

For my money Wlad hits a fair bit harder than Vitali, and this is down to far better technique. However, clearly Wlad can be hurt by Vitali so there would always be the chance for Vitali to win by KO. BUT, I'm pretty sure Wlad could hurt Vitali enough with his jab to stop him wading in. This would be a great fight, and while I wouldn't put a great deal of money on it, I would pick Wlad to win by stoppage.

Lewis couldn't stop Vitali from wading in and he had a habit of being more spiteful with his punching so don't think Wlads jab is going to have that effect.

Lewis didnt wake up in the Vitali fight until the 3rd round. Vitali blew it. Lewis was there for the taking for 2/3 rounds.

Vitali did blow the Lewis fight - but a fighter doesn't plan to win on cuts, and once it opened up, Lewis is too good a fighter to fight with a target on your face.

I agree with HH though. Lewis didnt stop Vitali coming in, Wlad isnt going to.