Third test: Bresnan or Tremlett?

As title says really, who would you go with if Tremlett fully recovers by the time of the test. Can you drop Bresnan after his performance at Trent Bridge?

Personal opinion Bresnan should get the chance to back up his performances from this test and potentially in the last test too depending how Edgebaston goes. Then Bres and Trem should fight it out for the spot for the winter tour.

Yeah i cant see how rthey can drop bresnan again. Hes always done it for them. The guys test stats are quite remarkable.
Soem might argue stck him and tremlett in and ditch morgan, but I dont see that hapening.

Bresnan. He's the in form man, you can't drop a man who took five for and made 90. Having said that Flower will probably go back to tremlett.

Tremlett should be allowed to rest up and get in some big performances for survey.

against india i would drop swann and play both tremmers and bresnan.

Gregers wrote:
Tremlett should be allowed to rest up and get in some big performances for survey.

That would be helpful if we are referring to Surrey - we are due a big performance as Tremlett has taken 6 wickets at an average of over 50 for Surrey in his (limited) appearances in the county championship this season....

thinking about it, just bring in Tremlett for Trott if he wont be able to play 100%?

Bresnan for me.
Strengthens the batting, doesn't significantly weaken the bowling.
Suppose the pitch would have to be taken into consideration though.
Difficult, but good conundrum to have.

Hoggy_Bear wrote:Bresnan for me.
Strengthens the batting, doesn't significantly weaken the bowling.
Suppose the pitch would have to be taken into consideration though.
Difficult, but good conundrum to have.

If they needed a hit the deck bowler they would go for Broad though (despite how well he has bowled when pitching it up and using the short ball as a supprise)

Could always drop Mogs and play them both. We've had a mass excess of runs in this series so far.

Strikes me as too aggressive for Strauss though.

Bresnan

I suppose they'll wait on the pitch to see which bowler would better suit the conditions. Going by Flower's interview yesterday, England won't be going with 5 bowlers as he basically laughed it off. And neither should they, there's no need to weaken the batting to strengthen the bowling when it's working so well as it is.

You cant really drop swann when the only other slow bowling options are Pietersen and Trott who are both about as threatening as Harbajan Singh with a stomach injury.
Even though spinners have been less use than the Indian openers in this series it would be unthinkable to go into a test without and take the pace of bowlers at all.

It may also come down the Tremletts fitness. If theres the slightest hint of a niggle then it makes the decision easy.
If Trotts still restricted to train by his shoulder then resting him for a bowler is a big risk. With Strauss, Cook and Morgan struggling for runs that puts an awful lot of pressure on Pitersen and Bell to carry the top order.
Bresnanas batting average is a lot better than his real ability, and Broads batting as been at its best recently. The Indians would see a batting lineup with Cook and Strauss struggling, Bell at 3 , Morgan at 5, Bresnan at 7 and lick their lips. It could give them an easy way back into the series. They very nearly won the last game by blasting out our top 6, England cant always rely on the tail enders to get them out of a hole.
Whilst the bowling unit would be formidable Englands success has been based on deep batting and scoreboard pressure first.
If Trott is injured it would be a better move to give a reserve batsman a taste of test cricket at 5. If thats Bopara or Patel then you get a better 5th bowling option that Trott at least, if not the front line strike bowling of Bresnan or Tremlett.

Its nice to be in a position where someone may have to miss out "unfairly" rather than Indias psoition of trying to get a rabble into shape and relying on semi fit undercooked players to come back in with no preperation and bail them out.

I'd give James Taylor from Leicester a go, though I know the selectors will go with Bopara if Trott doesn't make it.

Agree with most, if not all of what PSW said.

As good as the batting has been (400+-dec in the first innings at Lords', a declaration in the second innings and then 500+ in the second innings at Trent Bridge) we have found ourselves in trouble on a couple of occasions (62-5 and 120-8 come to mind) and our strength has been batting sides out the game, and with this India team keeping them out in the field, sapping their energy and moral and setting them ungettable targets is what has worked and what will hopefully continue to work.

If we change it, we won't be able to recover from such positions, we won't be able to score 400+ runs in a day, we won't be able to turn a 60-run deficit into a 500-run target, we won't be able to declare twice in a test match etc. And let's not forget, our bowling has restricted India to less than 300 runs on all four outings so far.

So the choice has to be between Bresnan and Tremlett, and possibly which batsman comes in for Trott. I've voted for Bresnan to keep his place. I also thought about replacing Swann with Tremlett - what does the pitch at Edgbaston normally do? Does it normally spin, because in Aggers' column he suggested that there will be a lot more pace and carry, and with 4 fast bowlers we could blow India away. If Trott is injured and we bring in Patel as our spin option, this could be an attractive prospect. Harsh on Swann after all he's done over the last couple of years, but we have 5 bowlers who deserve to be in the team on merit and, ruling out 5 batsman, the keeper and 5 bowlers one of them has to miss out.

If Swann were to miss out it would have to billed as him being rested due to his hand injury. To be fair it could do him good, and it would do England good to give Patel a game siunce it appears they see him as the second spin option for the Sri Lanka series.
I dont see him as a front line bowler in a 4 man attack though, so you would be looking at 4 seamers alongside him.
That again leaves you with a brittle batting order.....

Its not a perefect solution but an option.

If Swann's fit, he must play. If India manage to keep England in the field for longer than they have been, and they are more than capable with the batting they have, they could really tire England's quicks out, just as England have been doing to them.

liverbnz wrote:If Swann's fit, he must play. If India manage to keep England in the field for longer than they have been, and they are more than capable with the batting they have, they could really tire England's quicks out, just as England have been doing to them.

The argument being though that without swann you can play 4 seamers and patel which negates the tiring them out problem.
Its not ideal and lacks balance, but if Swann isnt up to it its an option

I think your being a bit unfair to Swann. Unlees you're talking about him not being up to it through injury?

Both. Put Tremlett in for Morgan if he is fully fit.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

liverbnz wrote:If Swann's fit, he must play. If India manage to keep England in the field for longer than they have been, and they are more than capable with the batting they have, they could really tire England's quicks out, just as England have been doing to them.

The argument being though that without swann you can play 4 seamers and patel which negates the tiring them out problem.
Its not ideal and lacks balance, but if Swann isnt up to it its an option

I highly doubt England trust Patel in the Test arena with either bat or bowl. For me that still looks like 5 bowlers, which Flower showed no intention of going with. In fact, he laughed at the idea.

Originally thought Bresnan over Broad before the 1st test. Now I've been proved wrong, I definitely reckon Bresnan for Tremlett. The difference with the bat is huge and the difference with the ball is negligible. if anything, Bressie looks the more threatening.

Well, I am the first to vote for Tremlett! Bresnan has played well in this one Test Match, but Tremlett has been consistantly quality ever since he came back into the side against Aus. It isn't even as if we need Bres's runs because without him we still have Swann at 10. This is if Tremlett is 100% though, don't risk him if not.

Ravi has already failed against Sri Lanka A. Gone for 19. Taylor and Hales batting at the moment. Big, big chances for them. Let us not forget that Morgan was picked for the first SL Test on the back of a 150 for the Lions!

Ravi will still get ANOTHER chance like he always does...

Yeah just like that bloody Ian Bell....

Got to be Bresnan. To get dropped after scoring 90 and getting 5 wickets would sendout the wrong message to players in and around the England squad.

Quick question...do either of them have central contracts?

bresnan has to play, he got 90 and 5 wickets you cant drop him after that!

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Quick question...do either of them have central contracts?

They both have incremental contracts, Tremlett's being awarded following the Ashes. Morgan only has an incremental contract also. As does Bopara.

bresnan wont get dropped he will suit edgbaston more than tremlett anyway

I'm no cricket afficionado, but why can't we have a five man attack? Drop Trott who's clearly hampered for an in-form bowler that mustered a hundred more runs than him over the 2 innings at TB.

We can, but England won't, they will stick to the four bowler policy that has served them so well recently.

Taylor made 76 in the Lions match. Patel made a 50. Here's the full scorecard.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/492554.html

I would definitely go for a batsman in for Trott if he's injured, before we even get to the debate between Bresnan and Tremlett (which I'd side with Bresnan for). Bresnan was in the side at the close of the Ashes, but was injured during the Sri Lanka series. He got his call in the second test due to Tremlett's injury and did absolutely everything that could have been asked of him. He definitely deserves to keep his place.

There should be a third option of "both"

lol yh

with india's bowler being useless, we could get away with 6 batsmen including prior and i think the selectors should consider it

Bresnan for me he's in form and England shouldn't waste that. Tremlett should go and play abit for Surrey then if Bresnan doesn't deliver in the 3rd test, Tremlett comes in at his favourite ground, The Oval.

Bresnan also adds them extra runs that could be needed.

cricketfan90 wrote:lol yh

with india's bowler being useless, we could get away with 6 batsmen including prior and i think the selectors should consider it

With two openers off form, Trott possibly injured and questions over Morgan's test class, can we really rely on just the 6 batsmen? Especially if Zaheer Khan comes through the 2 day game with a few overs under his belt.

Alternatively, with india's batting being useless, we could get away with 4 bowlers including swann and i think the selectors should stick with it. India haven't posted 300 in 4 innings. All the pressure is on them to win the match, just keep doing what we're doing and look to bat long and crush India on the scoreboard.

bresnan will play.....

I think the third option only comes into play if Swann is unfit. Without a worthwhile replacement it makes more sense to get a batsman spinner (Patel) in and 4 seamers who will do almost all the bowling. That way you cover all the bases.

But yeah with Trott missing out a 5 bowler lineup would be stupidly risky.
When it comes down to it England dont need to win this test, they caould bat India out to a stalemate. By picking 5 bowlers, Taylor, and out of form opening pair, Morgan with his average of about 30 youd be relying heavily on mr Flakey KP, Prior, and Bresnan plus Broad to get 400 runs between them. Doesnt add up to me. England have been getting away with the form of Cook and Strauss so far, they wont do forever.
With India getting Khan and Gambhir Sehwag back and they will be a different prospect to the shambles that fronted up to the last test.

Dropping Anderson or Broad isnt a consideration.


Replacing Trott is an odd one. It makes sense to go for the better batsman, Taylor. But that does leave England desperatly short of support bowling...which puts more pressure and workload on the front 3 seamers.
England will need Swann fireing, but then hes carrying an injury too.
Bopara and Patel offer other bowling options so that we can rest the seamers when the balls doing nothing with less risk of the Indians going like our tail did against their part timers.
With Taylor theres a stronger case for a proper 5 bowler attack, but its a huge huge risk. I doubt England would take it, they dont need to.

i think if swann isnt fit, then monty will play, they would rather play an out an out spinner, than a part timer, i only suggested patel is trott isnt fit, then he can bat 6 or 7, bowl spin with swann, and bell can bat 3..

patel is good enough agianst this bowling attack

cricketfan90 wrote:i think if swann isnt fit, then monty will play, they would rather play an out an out spinner, than a part timer, i only suggested patel is trott isnt fit, then he can bat 6 or 7, bowl spin with swann, and bell can bat 3..

patel is good enough agianst this bowling attack

CF
Zak would be back for the 3rd Test.Their attack would become twice as potent.I would pick James Taylor tbh.

Do you realy think Monty will play? Isnt Tredwell the reserve spinner?

Monty's taken 5fer again for us today.

Monty >>>>>>>>>> Tredwell

Like they said on Sky, make sure Tremmers is completely fit, let them both bowl on the wicket, and whoever does better there deserves their place.

I'd stick with Bresnan though, purely on his performance at Trent bridge. Unlucky for the big man but Bresnan deserves to stay in the side on merit.

Furthermore, it's a good dilemna for the selectors to have, as both are good bowlers!

I think Bresnan is a better option than Tremlett anyways.

He offers something with the bat and is a genuine wicket taker as well

Stick with Bresnan and give Tremlett another break to make sure he gets back to 100% fitness then look at it again before the final Test.

Tremlett not playing today for Surrey

Potentially if Swann isn't fit, you could play Patel as an extra batsman and play them both.