Good courageous defending 9s and 10s and..

also when they're overrun!!

I'm selecting 9s and 10s as they're usually the smallest in the field, along I know with some other backs but as they're in the channel they get more of the defensive duties. I'm after who people thinks are in this category. Also hoping to learn more about other country's players. For this really later 70's onwards please cause least I will have a chance of having seen them. This is not compiling who are the best, just who we think are courageous brave little uns that we admire.

Obviously JW is there, but being biased I prefer Gregan. I think that little fella always put his body on the line. Not as effective as JW maybe but not seen him shirk taking on the big fellas. Loved it best when he was run over by the saffa prop in SA about 4 years ago in the 3N, who then scored the try. But always admired his courage.

Other good examples of being run over of course was Catt by Lomu, JW by Chabal at Twickenham.

Looking forward to other people's stories of heroic size mismatches and blind determination of the little fellas trying to bring a full paced prop down for example.

Joost v d Westhuizen and Henry Honiball was a lethal defence unit.

Ah yes, that tackle in 95 on Lomu... a cracker of a tackle sir!!!!

Some obvious examples of great defence are:

Thomas O'Leary's try saving big hit on Benoit Baby. He also almost took Cian Healy's head off too in a try saving high tackle.

George Gregans cover tackle on Jeff Wilson.

Jonny Wilkinson massive hit on emile entemack (sp).

Believe it or not the dimutive Peter Stringer has put in some excellent cover defence, in particular try saving tap tackles. Can't think of a particular example though.

Young Paul Marshall at Ulster can put in some big hits too for a tiny guy.

Although he's a better defender than made out there's a few examples out there of O'Gara getting bounced off, most notably by Jamie Heaslip.

Syd Going, Gary Armstrong, Edwards, Berbezier and Joost were all very hard 9's

Lambie did a pretty good job of stopping Nonu (somehow) on the weekend.

Can't believe nobody has mentioned that English brick wall Danny Cipriani or that Australian equivalent Quade Cooper. Man I'd hate to come up against those heavy hitters.

The classiest scrum half I ever played against was the venerable Dave Loveridge - Seldom mentioned on here but the guy was silky smooth - Once had a session with him and Stew Wilson - They can also pack a few away

and at the mo you can add Styne to that list of hard hitters, for some reason he has become a revolving door!

RubyGuby wrote:The classiest scrum half I ever played against was the venerable Dave Loveridge - Seldom mentioned on here but the guy was silky smooth - Once had a session with him and Stew Wilson - They can also pack a few away

Yikes. Would you care to rephrase any/all of that?

Having watched Ulster most of the season I'd have to add the otherwise excellent Ian Humphreys and Ruan Pienaar to the revolving door category.

Their tackling is so bad you'd think they were playing touch rugby at times.

Rodders - you can't pick out one Stringer tap tackle because there was a 3 year period where he seemed to make 1 every 3 games. For his size, he has never been questioned on the defensive side of things. Munster and indeed Ireland know you don't put him in the line try and stop a prop head on, but he always was excellent in a sweeper role. Using the past tense here, maybe he still is?

Dawson was also quite handy defensively and had a good stretch for England with Wilkinson so that combo would be up there, wouldn't it?

Paul Hodgson is tiny, but he's all balls

Believe it or not the dimutive Peter Stringer has put in some excellent cover defence, in particular try saving tap tackles. Can't think of a particular example though.

You had me searching on youtube for tap tackles and I found these by stringer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4PGZfloohQ (love this one)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkRDZOPbDCw&feature=related

And they're the only ones on there!

An underappreciated art it seems.

I love a good tap. One that sticks in the memory is Worsley's try-saver against France in the 2007 WC. Actually one of the things that makes tap tackles so great to watch is they so often are used as a last resort, so when they come off they are undeniable try-deniers.

This is from another sport but I think we can all appreciate it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liH5dGHJjpo

Loveridge, great smooth passer of the ball and such an econmical player (that means it looks effortless and not that he was on 3 bob a game)

Session with him and Wilson involved lots of beer and lager and took place at Neath RFC

I guess it's all in the interpretation. Get that interpretation sorted GG, although on 2nd thoughts I like it as it is.

Neil Jenkins would always put the tackles in. Playing in a pretty shocking Wales team, he had the opposition running at him all day.

OzT wrote:and at the mo you can add Styne to that list of hard hitters, for some reason he has become a revolving door!

More like the busboy standing at the revolving door, showing you the way.

"George Gregans cover tackle on Jeff Wilson"...

Need to also mention the famous, and the world record for largest attendance, 2000 3N when he took out Lomu to save a try... only for the last second when Lomu then ran over/round/thru Larkham's despairong tackle attempt!!

And biltong, maybe just at the mo Styen thinks he's playing for a no cause side and just couldn't be bothered??

Scotland have always produced excellent defensive 9's (Armstrong was hard as nails), and the current crop are no exception. All of Cusiter, Lawson and Blair are excellent defensive players. Lawson put in a monster cover tackle in the AP play-offs, and Blair's cover tackling is just about the only part of his game that hasn't suffered with his dip in form.

At 10 we've seen a different kettle of fish emerge. Townsend, Hodge and Parks were/are all in the revolving door mode. Our best tackling 10 is probably Godman. Wow I hear you all cry.

O'Leary and Wilkinson. Most solid defensive pairing I can think of.

Gary Armstrong...the border battler.....what a player.

9 Gary Armstrong
10 Johnny W
12 Brian Lima.

Ouch.

Isn't Lima a bit big to be considered??

Yeah, Hennie le Roux was never the biggest inside center, and he was quite solid.

Eustace

In the NFL one, the tackle was made all the more sweeter by the number 33 "pre-celebrating". At least Ashton finishes them off...

Not so much tackling but courageous !!! - LINK

Sorry, I can't access youtube in the office to see if there's any video footage

Yeah Lima possibly is...but he's not a 10 or 9 either...was just saying that would be quite a hard hitting line up ....

Oh he is that's for sure, though I was looking more for stories of the little fellas, usually half backs, being heroic and failing at times too!! Though that Philips bloke for Wales would not come under the small number 9s, nor Bemissigo!! (sp)

For a guy who's 8 stone soaking wet, Stringer has always had the right attitude to defence - OK, he'll never knock someone back in the tackle, but he put his body onthe line.

Dawson was always a very solid defender round the fringe, and I'd forgotten just how tenacious Gary Armstrong was (class player, somehow slightly overlooked now).

Of course the ultimate revolving door defenders are the playmaking 10s - Cipriani and Cooper have already been mentioned (Cipriani being a particular annoyance because he's plenty big enough to be a sound defender, but lacks it between the ears), but you also have to include Hodgson almost every time he's played for England.

Extending this discussion, how about coming up with the best defensive backline of normal sized players?
Armstrong
Wilkinson
Lewsey (even if he'd never made another tackle in his career, the hit on Rogers would get him in)
Horan
Sella
Sackey (I'm sure others can come up with a better defensive winger, but he certainly didn't mind flying in to the tackles)
JPR

Surely Scott Gibbs at 12 and Lima at 13.

Ben Cohen was a very strong defensive winger, and you could make a good case for BOD being included somewhere. Not only for his rucking, but also his tackling (less so these days perhaps). Remember that monster hit in the 2nd Lions test.

Roy Laidlaw was a hard wee SH too and very much Gary Armstrong's influence and I believe his mentor.

OzT wrote:and at the mo you can add Styne to that list of hard hitters, for some reason he has become a revolving door!

Yeah when I saw he was pencilled in at fullback the Jane scenario immediately came to mind. A coming straight at him with choices galore. No chance even for the very best defenders let alone someone not familiar with fullback defensive strategy. Jane must have felt he was in heaven when he saw who the last man was as he had the time to check.

Cooper seems to make an effort as he likes the physical stuff- hes just hopeless at it- bit weird. Cips is just plain chicken to mix it up at all. Schoolboys here have a more rugged streak than Cips. Pity as he has the talent otherwise- at least on the field...

Carter hasnt been mentioned here and for his size he can mix it up. One of his first tests as second five he got across and smashed someone over the touchline and that was the day everyone started 'looking at this kid' a bit more seriously... can't recall which test it was...

Only one 13 boys - GRAVELL

Centres are too big Penfro, this is meant for the real little fellas, usually the 9s and 10s, baring Phililps and Bergamasco!!!

funnyExiledScot wrote:Surely Scott Gibbs at 12 and Lima at 13.

Ben Cohen was a very strong defensive winger, and you could make a good case for BOD being included somewhere. Not only for his rucking, but also his tackling (less so these days perhaps). Remember that monster hit in the 2nd Lions test.

FES
Note I refer to normal sized players, so was excluding the Worlds fastest prop and players like Cohen. BOD would certainly fall within the 'normal size' type though, it's just difficult to leave out Sella. My excuse is that at the start of his career BOD didn't like the physical stuff.

Yep. As i mentioned earlier carters reconfirmed his spot near the top of all 10s.
Against SA made all 13 tackles through his channel and against oz was everywhere cutting down player after player.
Coming back to his best.

Umaga and Mealamu - brilliant at..... tackles

Thats right pot. Smashed him like a done dinner. 6 Years ago.

Cullen was a strong tackler. Aided by momentum due to his speed. He broke a locks shoulder once if I remember right.

Credit has to go to Wilkinson - the first 10 I can recall who made an attacking weapon out of his defence.

Garry Armstrong was harder than nail pie, so was Pierre Berbizier who loved trying to topple loose forwards.

In the Scotland match against Australia which they won 9-8, Cusiter had to leave the pitch because he'd just concussed himself bringing down both Australian locks and Elsom, all in the span of the same 6 minutes.

Barry John - yes, really!

In 1971 in the Grand Slam decider in Paris, which Wales won, he crash-tackled the great French lock forward Benoit Dauga.

John went off with a broken nose but came back later with cotton-wool sticking out of both nostrils.

The Western Mail reported the story, taking the line that Wales's outside-half had no business tackling a second-row. That sort of thing should be entirely left to his back-row. How times have changed!

Incidentally, the broken nose nearly led to Barry John pulling out of the 1971 Lions tour of New Zealand. He though his breathing would be badly affected, and it was Carwyn James who persuaded him otherwise.