Lewis Moody should NOT be England captain.

In my opinion Lewis Moody is lucky to make the England training squad, let alone captain the England starting XV. The Bath openside, played two games at the end of this season, games which he did not deserve to start, as Guy Mercer the 21 year old Bath flanker was in such tremendous form. Whilst in the six nations, England clearly showed they did not miss Moody in the slightest with Tom Wood and James Haskell playing very well on either flank.

Lewis Moody is possibly the weakest attacking flanker England have to offer. He is poor ball carrier both in the tight and the loose, whilst he isn't a particularly good link-man. Tackling and pressure on the fly half is Moody's strong points, however he still drops off players and sometimes gets caught out of position. He is also notorious for giving away penalties for infringements, whilst at the breakdown he isn't the strongest. I don't understand how he is captain, if England have much better options out there at 7. Therefore I feel Moody is only in the team due to his experience and leadership skills, not down to ability or form.

You have Chris Robshaw, a player who has been extremely unlucky in the past three seasons not to win more than one England cap. Robshaw won the Guinness Premiership player of the season in the 2008/2009 season, and has been unlucky that he was behind Tom Croft and James Haskell in the blindside flanker pecking order. However this season, Robshaw has really come on. He captained Harlequins this season to their Amlin Challenge Cup triumph and featured mostly at openside all season. Leading by example with his work-rate, including tackling and ball carrying at the fore. He is the best link-man openside in the premiership and is extremely strong at the breakdown. He is the closest thing England has to a Richie McCaw or an old England favourite Richard Hill.

Hendre Fourie although a South African, is also another player who offers far more than Moody. Fourie is a scavenger who is strong at the breakdown and a powerfull ball carrier in the tight. I'd personally have Robshaw ahead of Fourie because he is English and can offer a better all-round game, but i'd still pick Fourie ahead of Moody.

Tom Wood is another exciting prospect, although I feel the England management see Wood and Croft as blindside options, some have argued that they should play in the same team on either flanks. However I personally don't feel that balance would work very well, with both players strong defensively, awesome in the lineout, not particularly good ball carriers in the tight and pacey out wide.

James Haskell had a very impressive six nations at openside flanker and although he played most of the season as a blindside for Stade Francais, showed that he was more than capable of filling in there. His ball carrying power and link-play has been impressive, whilst his work-rate and turnover skills at the breakdown have improved admirably.

So in conclusion, Lewis Moody would not make my England 30-man world cup squad, so therefore it frustrates me that he is going to be our captain. I respect what Moody has achieved in his career. However there are younger players below him in the pecking order who are ability wise better rugby players. In the back row I'd take Easter, Haskell, Croft, Wood and Robshaw. Whilst if there is a sixth choice I'd understand taking Moody ahead of Fourie to provide leadership and his experience, but a back row of Croft, Robshaw and Easter would be my preference with Haskell on the bench.

Thoughts?

not sure about robshaw. need to see him play in a full intensity test match.

you cant just drop the captain, moody will be given every chance to prove his worth and rightly so.

personally i hope robshaw is also given a chance in the warmups and if he can display his domestic form in the test arena, well he could make the plane.

robshaw4england wrote:He is also notorious for giving away penalties for infringements,

Thoughts?

Th rest of your attack on him is a matter of opinion and one that could only be challenged by disagreeing. Not much point.
This bit though...well yes he is notorious for it but its already been debunked today in another thread. Find me some hard evidence that he is penalised more than other flankers England or other sides have to offer, statisticaly he is pretty average in his penalty rates for the position he plays.

Its a general impression people have that hes a penalty machine and liability but its not born out in reality. Look at Tindall for a guy who has a poor disciplinary record in and England shirt, yet he is next in line for the capatincy.

Which brings on another point...theres only 4 relaistic contenders to be capatin right now. Moody, Tindall, Easter , Wilkinson...none of which are totaly everybodies first choice in their position and wilkinson doesnt get n the first XV

Your objection to Moody is based more on wanting Robshaw in the side than anything else, which is fair enough. It is a problem when the captain keeps out a better player. However Johnson strongly disagrees that Robshaw is. Hes not alone, Jeremy Guscott dosnt rate Robshaw either ( for what little thats worth!) .
Either way you couldnt just parachute a player into the side and install him as captain at this point (unless youre Brian Ashton and your side has been an utter disgrace for the last year). So if not him its Tindall or Easter or WIlko which leaves you with exactly the sam argument for another player you have a boner for...be that Tuilagi, Waldrom or Flood or whatever. At some point the side needs a permanant captain, it helps if that guy is a senior player whos respected and leads by example and who has consistently been one of the best players in the country. Hartley to capatin in his first world cup when hes so young and only just establishd in the side i dont buy.
Moody has been rated highly enough to be consistently selected by every england coach when hes been fit. He cant be that bad a player. He crtainly stood out as the one guy who looked like he could make a differnce to ngland at the end of 2009, thats why he got the job. It may be a coincidence that that concided with a distinct upturn in englands results and quality, it may not.

https://www.606v2.com/t10753-lewis-moody-is-set-to-resume-the-england-captaincy

Already a topic on it and, as Seabiscuit says, it proved that in Moody's last 10 matches he gave away something like 5 penalties.

Moody is only going to be captain for the first Wales game. Johnson doesn't pick his team more than one game ahead, and picks his captain by game. Moody's leadership skills and test experience give him a slight edge over all the other flankers - he's proven at this level. Robshaw might feel unlucky not to have got more of a shot, but I have serious doubts as to whether he will be able to make the step up.

Personally i think Croft and Wood could play in the same backrow together. Both excellent in the lineout, but Wood likes to be in the middle of things and Croft likes to play a little wider....nice balance.

The other thing is...i thought Haskell was mostly blindside through the 6n whilst Wood was openside.

I guess it boils down to the fact we all like different players for different reasons.
Im a big fan of Wood, others like Robshaw...Haskell etc

Lets just hope Johnno picks the right mix and puts a team out that can really compete at the breakdown - an area i think we have been poor.
But thats not just the back rows....that includes the entire pack...and the backs aswell.
I dont expect us to do much at this world cup...but i really believe we will be very close in 2015....

Haskell played 7, Wood played 6.
I thought it was odd back at the start of last season when Haskell stated he saw his international future at 7 but apaprently this is something the England management must have given him the nod toward. One things for sure, they arent looking for the traditional backrow.

To add to the endless waffle I posted last night, I do agfree that there are other players who could play in Englandss backrow. But whoever gets picked that will be the case, and someone has to be captain. Its generaly a good idea that they are captain material and settled experienced members of the squad. Moody will retire after the world cup then Hartley can squabble with Croft for the role. Robshaw and Wood can have their chance to fight for a place in the firstchoice backrow, Haskell is playing abroad for a while and will be unavailable for the 6 nations.

Comapre the Moody situation to teh Bortwick one. Whilst I feel that at the time he was made capatin England didnt have much choice but to go with Borthwick if they wanted one who could carry the team through the WC ( which was the aim at the time) he was much less worthy of his place in the side and a much worse captain that Moody is.
Try and be positive, it could be worse.

robshaw4england wrote:In my opinion Lewis Moody is lucky to make the England training squad, let alone captain the England starting XV. The Bath openside, played two games at the end of this season, games which he did not deserve to start, as Guy Mercer the 21 year old Bath flanker was in such tremendous form. Whilst in the six nations, England clearly showed they did not miss Moody in the slightest with Tom Wood and James Haskell playing very well on either flank.

Lewis Moody is possibly the weakest attacking flanker England have to offer. He is poor ball carrier both in the tight and the loose, whilst he isn't a particularly good link-man. Tackling and pressure on the fly half is Moody's strong points, however he still drops off players and sometimes gets caught out of position. He is also notorious for giving away penalties for infringements, whilst at the breakdown he isn't the strongest. I don't understand how he is captain, if England have much better options out there at 7. Therefore I feel Moody is only in the team due to his experience and leadership skills, not down to ability or form.

You have Chris Robshaw, a player who has been extremely unlucky in the past three seasons not to win more than one England cap. Robshaw won the Guinness Premiership player of the season in the 2008/2009 season, and has been unlucky that he was behind Tom Croft and James Haskell in the blindside flanker pecking order. However this season, Robshaw has really come on. He captained Harlequins this season to their Amlin Challenge Cup triumph and featured mostly at openside all season. Leading by example with his work-rate, including tackling and ball carrying at the fore. He is the best link-man openside in the premiership and is extremely strong at the breakdown. He is the closest thing England has to a Richie McCaw or an old England favourite Richard Hill.

Hendre Fourie although a South African, is also another player who offers far more than Moody. Fourie is a scavenger who is strong at the breakdown and a powerfull ball carrier in the tight. I'd personally have Robshaw ahead of Fourie because he is English and can offer a better all-round game, but i'd still pick Fourie ahead of Moody.

Tom Wood is another exciting prospect, although I feel the England management see Wood and Croft as blindside options, some have argued that they should play in the same team on either flanks. However I personally don't feel that balance would work very well, with both players strong defensively, awesome in the lineout, not particularly good ball carriers in the tight and pacey out wide.

James Haskell had a very impressive six nations at openside flanker and although he played most of the season as a blindside for Stade Francais, showed that he was more than capable of filling in there. His ball carrying power and link-play has been impressive, whilst his work-rate and turnover skills at the breakdown have improved admirably.

So in conclusion, Lewis Moody would not make my England 30-man world cup squad, so therefore it frustrates me that he is going to be our captain. I respect what Moody has achieved in his career. However there are younger players below him in the pecking order who are ability wise better rugby players. In the back row I'd take Easter, Haskell, Croft, Wood and Robshaw. Whilst if there is a sixth choice I'd understand taking Moody ahead of Fourie to provide leadership and his experience, but a back row of Croft, Robshaw and Easter would be my preference with Haskell on the bench.

Thoughts?

+1 on your Moody comments, not quite so sure about the alternatives

also notorious for giving away penalties for infringements

As Peter says above that is simply not true he is actually one of England's more disciplined players.

He captained Harlequins this season

Inclouding the game vs Tigers in the LV Cup where the ref refused to speak to him shortly after half time because he had spent so long whinning about every decision. Easter does a lot of leading at Quinns and so does Evans. It's leadership by committee and I think Quinns would be better off dropping Robshaw as the firgure head.

He is the best link-man openside in the premiership

Don't think I've ever seen him pass and his best work is taking pops off of Care around the breakdown. Not really linking play more of a half back support runner. England seemed short on those a the tail end of the 6N.

He is the closest thing England has to a Richie McCaw or an old England favourite Richard Hill.

Complete rubbish, Hill and McCaw are masters at playing the referee. Robshaw is an updated Worlsey. A tackle machine but with more pace and more ball carrying power. I wish he had half the breakdown skills of McCaw or Hill because England need somebody to go fetching at the breakdown but it isn't Robshaw.

Some interesting parallels