LEWIS MOODY is set to resume the England Captaincy

by maestegmafia Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:17 pm

LEWIS MOODY is set to resume the England captaincy for Saturday’s Investec international against Wales at a sold-out Twickenham.

The Bath flanker missed the whole of England’s Six Nations title-winning campaign with a knee ligament injury, handing over the captaincy first to Mike Tindall and then Nick Easter.

But Moody, 33, is the man England manager Martin Johnson wants to lead his squad into the Rugby World Cup.

Johnson will officially confirm the team to face Wales – the first of England’s three World Cup warm-up fixtures – tomorrow lunchtime.

Read More http://www.walesonline.co.uk/rugbynation/rugby-news/2011/08/03/lewis-moody-set-to-return-to-lead-england-against-wales-91466-29166099/#ixzz1TxYvUVa9

by nottins Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:19 pm

And ?

by bedfordwelsh Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:22 pm

mm,

No surprise really, I like Moody and think he is one of those b****y annoying players that the opposition fans love to hate.

He is seen as a bit of a points machine penalty wise due to he plays right on the edge.

Will be good to see how Warburton goes against him and it seems Jonno is showing his hand first with Gatland not due to announce our team until tomorrow.

by Davie Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:25 pm

nottins wrote:And ?

It's a news story, posted here for discussion.

That's what people do on discussion forums

by nottins Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:30 pm

Davie wrote:
nottins wrote:And ?

It's a news story, posted here for discussion.

That's what people do on discussion forums

by munkian Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:33 pm

Nottins did you parents have any children that lived ?

by nottins Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:34 pm

munkian wrote:Nottins did you parents have any children that lived ?

What ?

by Davie Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:36 pm

nottins - if you don't like the topic then please ignore it

by funnyExiledScot Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:38 pm

I actually think this is a story. Personally I wouldn't include Moody in the England 1st XV, I'd pick Wood instead. I think MJ should have gone with either Easter (absolutely guaranteed to start) or Tindall (very likely to start unless Tuilagi is doing something remarkable in training).

by Effervescing Elephant Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:38 pm

Personally quite looking forward to seeing mad dog back on the park again. Not sure he's our best option anymore but it's always great to see him play. Very Happy

by **rodders** Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:39 pm

I think thats quite interesting because I wouldn't have thought Moody would be guaranteed to be a starter in the backrow with the likes of Croft, Wood and Haskell around? Obviously Johnson thinks he is.

Tindall might have been the logical choice given he's pretty much assured of a starting spot given England lack of midfield options.

by Effervescing Elephant Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:43 pm

I think it's a case that he was the encumbent before injury and if he's on the field he's the strongest leader. If he's out it's Tindall.

by beshocked Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:43 pm

roddersm maybe MJ wants to try Manu at outside centre. If he does he couldn't pick Tindall as captain unless he moved either out of their regular position.

In my opinion there is no real captaincy candidate who stands out. Certainly a contrast to the 2002-2003 England that was full of leaders.

by robbo277 Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:46 pm

I think it's a bit of an extrapolation to say that Moody will captain England through the World Cup. He will if he's first choice (and his leadership is a plus that could see him edge out competitors) but if someone like Wood plays phenomenally well over the next month than Moody could find himself starting games on the bench with someone else as captain.

Martin Johnson always picks his captain on a game-by-game basis, so I think the only announcement he would have made would be that Moody is to captain the side on Saturday. I would play Moody (and not Tindall) this week and Tindall (and not Moody) next week, so the captaincy would shift.

by tomathy Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:46 pm

I'd pick Robshaw at 7. Partly just through natural Quins bias. Partly because I think he'd compliment Croft much better than Wood would. Robshaw is great in the ruck and at carrying into contact, whereas Croft likes to fit into the backs more and run in the wide channels. Really think it would work.

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:48 pm

Firstly Tindall isnt assured his place any more than Moody is, and it was moddy that lead by example and dragged this England dside out of the gutter which lefd to him being made Captain in the first place.
It was pretty certain it would go back to him regardless of picks for this game.
Manu is reproted to be starting too, so that makes the capatin decision easier anyway. Tindall needs to focus on getting back into rugby and worry about catching up on everything hes missed for now.
Sharples on the wing, Amritage at fullback, Botha in the secodn row...this isnt the first choice England side being fielded...but Id be suprised if Moody isnt the first choice captain.

by red_stag Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:51 pm

Is it a problem for English fans that the captaincy keeps chopping and changing so frequently or are you ok with it?

In many other countries the captain is a cornerstone of the team - McCaw, Smit, O'Driscoll, Elsom, Parisse etc.

by nottins Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:52 pm

Davie wrote:nottins - if you don't like the topic then please ignore it

Calm down, old chap.

by red_stag Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:53 pm

Nottins - seriously what is it with you. I just don't understand people like you who are always rubbing people up the wrong way. It just baffles me.

by tomathy Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:57 pm

red_stag wrote:Is it a problem for English fans that the captaincy keeps chopping and changing so frequently or are you ok with it?

In many other countries the captain is a cornerstone of the team - McCaw, Smit, O'Driscoll, Elsom, Parisse etc.

Borthwick was captain for years, and Moody has been for over a year now. The only reason guys like Easter or Tindall have been given it is when Moody or Borthwick were unavailable.

In general the fact that we haven't had another Martin Johnson figure as captain for a while has just been a symptom of not having any really outstanding players for a few years. I don't really see it as a major problem in itself. Maybe after the world cup, if Moody retires from internationals, whoever is in charge will go for a younger guy with the intention of them being captain for a few years. I'm not particularly bothered about it though.

by beshocked Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:58 pm

Yes red stag it is a problem. No one in the England squad stands out as a leader in my opinion. Also none of the contenders for the captaincy are nailed on starters in my opinion.

It would be very hard for a player to prise the captaincy off the people you mention. Also bar Smit their places in the team are firmly nailed down.

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:58 pm

red_stag wrote:Is it a problem for English fans that the captaincy keeps chopping and changing so frequently or are you ok with it?

In many other countries the captain is a cornerstone of the team - McCaw, Smit, O'Driscoll, Elsom, Parisse etc.

Its only chopping and changing because of injury.
Moody was Captain because Borthwick was injured. Tindall was Captian because Moody was injured. Easter was Captain because Tindall was injured.
The only real change was that when Borthwick got fit they left him out and stuck by Moody.

Its hardly chopping and changing. If teh internet had its way we'd be on the 19th captin this week by now.

It does highlight though that England lost a generation of senior players who really deserved their spot in the side and stayed fit.

by robbo277 Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:02 pm

red_stag wrote:Is it a problem for English fans that the captaincy keeps chopping and changing so frequently or are you ok with it?

In many other countries the captain is a cornerstone of the team - McCaw, Smit, O'Driscoll, Elsom, Parisse etc.

Agree with PSW, the captaincy only passes round due to injury. Moody got given it when Borthwick was injured for France 2010. Palmer shone in that game (coming off the bench early after an injury to Shaw) and the team played with heart, so Borthwick the lock and Borthwick the captain were both no longer needed.

I would look at Hartley taking over after the World Cup. Someone who I expect to still be there in 2015 and beyond.

by red_stag Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:09 pm

Maybe Robbo - all I know is that England haven't had a true captain since Johnson left IMO.

Hartley looks a long term option along with Tom Croft IMO.

by **Pal Joey** Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:10 pm

Go easy on the 'compliments' guys... please try and keep things civil.

by yappysnap Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:11 pm

I actually think it's a good thing that we've tried out a few different captaincy options, more exposure for other players and it stops the team relying on one individual.

Even with the changes we've still won most of those games so it can't be impacting too badly.

As to Moody, I think he's the best choice at the moment and his effect on the team can be massive when he's on his game.

by TheGreyGhost Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:11 pm

nottins wrote:
Davie wrote:nottins - if you don't like the topic then please ignore it

Calm down, old chap.

I was thinking it was just me. Turns out you have a problem with everybody. Not sure why you bother really.

by funnyExiledScot Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:12 pm

Hartley would be the natural choice given he holds the role at Northampton, and as you say, has long term prospects.

Another possible is Tom Croft, who I think would do a good job and has long term prospects in the side.

A shorter term option would be Nick Easter, but it would be a stop-gap I think.

by **rodders** Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:13 pm

red_stag wrote:Nottins - seriously what is it with you. I just don't understand people like you who are always rubbing people up the wrong way. It just baffles me.

Ah come on stag no need to single nottins out like that. Trust me there's worse culprits around for rubbing people up the wrong way! Wink

by yappysnap Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:16 pm

Nick Easter isn't a captain, a good deputy yes but he doesn't captain well, just leave him to help guide the pack.

Agree Croft seems like captaincy material. So does Hartley.

MJ has also tried Robshaw as captain in various A teams against the Maori, Oz A and Barbarians. Maybe a post WC change?

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:17 pm

TheGreyGhost wrote:
nottins wrote:
Davie wrote:nottins - if you don't like the topic then please ignore it

Calm down, old chap.

~~I was thinking it was just me. Turns out you have a problem with everybody. Not sure why you bother really.~~

Posting a "witty" aside 2 posts after a Mod has told everyone to cut down the "compliments" isn't really that bright.

Drop it everyone.

by Geordie Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:22 pm

For me Moody is NOT the best of our back rows anymore....

Manu has obviously been doing prett ygood in training by all accounts so may get time at 13 ...but i expect Tindall to start.

Hartley is the obvious long term Captain...so give him it and lets stop chopping and changing.

For me you pick the best players then pick your captain!

by beshocked Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:23 pm

The problem with Croft is that he has Robshaw and Wood breathing down his neck. Also MJ is a big fan of Haskell too. Lots of competition in the 6/7 position. Moody is of course in competition with these guys.

Nick Easter is in a rosy position as he has no direct challenger for his spot and as long as he isn't injured is a nailed on.

Hartley has Thompson breathing down his neck too so I wouldn't say the captaincy is at all certain.

Tindall has the young pup Manu Tuilagi looking to usurp his place.

In summary: only Easter is nailed on starter of the contenders in my opinion.

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:24 pm

Post world cup its safe to assume that Tindall and Moody retire or have a bullet put in the back of their heads regardles of how England get on. Easter will be 33 too, highly unlikley hes going to be around for long after.

Assuming Hartley retains his number one hooker status he mhas to be the massive favourite to be the heir. Hes young enough to be around and become a permannent fixture like a Parisse, and hes as secure as anyone can be in their England shirt. Hes got planety of caps, is a natural elader, and has capatined at club level.
Croft and Flood are the only other really established players in the right age/experience bracket, I certainly dont see Flood as a Captain.

by R!skysports Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:25 pm

[quote="Kiwireddevil"][quote="TheGreyGhost"][quote="nottins"]

Davie wrote:
Posting a "witty" aside 2 posts after a Mod has told everyone to cut down the "compliments" isn't really that bright.

Drop it everyone.

You tell them...

As the the story, not sure I would have Moody in the team, let alone captain, not sure he is all that good any more.

by robbo277 Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:28 pm

I think a post World Cup captaincy change would be a benefit. Whether we choose Hartley or Croft (maybe have the other as a vice-captain), it would be good for that young captain to have some experienced leaders in the team or the squad. Be it Deacon, Palmer, Moody, Easter and/or Tindall. Having them around a young captain could help him through at the start, then as these players are replaced the captain should be a stronger leader and be able to cope without them.

Agree Stag, I like Moody as a captain, although I'm not sure if he is an unquestionable fixtures in the team (like Johnson, O'Driscoll, McCaw etc).

by maestegmafia Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:30 pm

From a Welsh perspective, and i think all non Englishmen would agree, Moody is a player we don't like to see in an England team we are facing, he is a head banger for sure, but a hell of a talent with it.

Maturity does seem to have tempered his game compared to his younger days. But the guys is a serious threat, a pain at the bottom of any ruck, absolutely fearless and it has developed that he is a great leader too.

England are very lucky to have several players, Easter, Hartley, Tindall and Moody who all have Captaincy experience and in the English way, like to lead by example.

Not good news for Wales, great news for England.

The only plus side from an opposition perspective is that Moody has missed most of the England international season with injury, but if he is fit and on form, as he regularly quickly is, then he will be the dynamite that maybe England were missing against Ireland.

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:35 pm

To be fair though Maesteg can you remeber a year Moody hadnt missed most of the season through injury?

by Luckless Pedestrian Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:37 pm

maestegmafia wrote:From a Welsh perspective, and i think all non Englishmen would agree, Moody is a player we don't like to see in an England team we are facing, he is a head banger for sure, but a hell of a talent with it.

I disagree. He's good but he's by no means great.

by maestegmafia Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:37 pm

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:To be fair though Maesteg can you remeber a year Moody hadnt missed most of the season through injury?

Good point, I guess that is the downside of his fearless nature.

But on the plus side he does recover form from injury very quickly... England have some excellent looking candidates for the backrow, so even if Moody was absent I wouldn't think it would worry you...

by greenandpleasantland Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:39 pm

I like Moody and he does offer a lot but this is certainly his last hurrah for England....i just hope that we can develop a genuine world-class open-side.For too long we seem to have played two 6.5s. Thinking back to when England were at their pomp we had tow genuinely brilliant open-sides and a number eight who could do a great job on the blind-side. It gave us a lot of ability to turn ball over and wreck opposition possession whilst being good link-men.

But i am happy to see him back as at the moment there is quite a callow look to the team.

by tomathy Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:42 pm

maestegmafia wrote:if he is fit and on form, as he regularly quickly is, then he will be the dynamite that maybe England were missing against Ireland.

Along with Lawes and Croft (who had been injured and came off the bench at second row). It wasn't injuries that lost us that game, but having those three back will be a big boost.

by Rugby_Assessor Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:59 pm

I personally think that Moody is a great choice of captain. He captained England to a series win in Australia last summer and he always gives 100% whether it be sprinting up the pitch to gather the restarts or putting his body on the line making tackle after tackle. If he can inspire his team-mates to do the same (which I think he can because he seems to get on well with them) in NZ then they have a great chance to do well.

by TheGreyGhost Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:01 pm

Kiwireddevil wrote:
TheGreyGhost wrote:
nottins wrote:
Davie wrote:nottins - if you don't like the topic then please ignore it

Calm down, old chap.

~~I was thinking it was just me. Turns out you have a problem with everybody. Not sure why you bother really.~~

Posting a "witty" aside 2 posts after a Mod has told everyone to cut down the "compliments" isn't really that bright.

Drop it everyone.

Yep agreed. But in my defense I was typing that at the same time as the moderator was responding, if you check the posting times.

Back to the topic. Whoever posted that Moody was one of those guys that opposition fans love to hate - I'm not so sure. I think from his recent form we're quite glad to see him in the side. Don't really rate him any more to be honest, and he supplies a constant stream of penalties.

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:10 pm

TheGreyGhost wrote:
Kiwireddevil wrote:
TheGreyGhost wrote:
nottins wrote:
Davie wrote:nottins - if you don't like the topic then please ignore it

Calm down, old chap.

~~I was thinking it was just me. Turns out you have a problem with everybody. Not sure why you bother really.~~

Posting a "witty" aside 2 posts after a Mod has told everyone to cut down the "compliments" isn't really that bright.

Drop it everyone.

Yep agreed. But in my defense I was typing that at the same time as the moderator was responding, if you check the posting times.

Back to the topic. Whoever posted that Moody was one of those guys that opposition fans love to hate - I'm not so sure. I think from his recent form we're quite glad to see him in the side. Don't really rate him any more to be honest, and he supplies a constant stream of penalties.

Is there anyone in the England black shirt you dont hate GG?

(Thats a compliment btw mr mod Whistle

)

by screamingaddabs Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:14 pm

Will people stop saying Moody gives a constant stream of penalties. Could someone also please give some stats from games in the past 3 years that back up this assertion? He USED to give away loads of penalties. Nowadays he gives away no more or less than most other back row players.

Whether he is good enough at the moment to start is open to debate, but saying he gives away penalties a lot I don't think is true. I will be happy to take this back if someone finds some good evidence to the contrary.

by yappysnap Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:15 pm

and he supplies a constant stream of penalties.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No he doesn't. He did get pinged a lot but that was generally the ref not understanding what he was doing at the ruck, now though he hardly gets pinged at all and is a very experienced player.

by red_stag Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:17 pm

The reason he doesn't get pinged now is that he's been injured a while Smile

Seriously though he does give away a lot of penalties. If refs don't understand his technique - tough!!

Its about players understand the referees technique - see Richie McCaw.

by Guest Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:19 pm

I don't remember thinking that Moody conceded a lot of penalties in recent years. This thinking is a bit out of date.

by TheGreyGhost Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:20 pm

screamingaddabs wrote:Will people stop saying Moody gives a constant stream of penalties. Could someone also please give some stats from games in the past 3 years that back up this assertion? He USED to give away loads of penalties. Nowadays he gives away no more or less than most other back row players.

Whether he is good enough at the moment to start is open to debate, but saying he gives away penalties a lot I don't think is true. I will be happy to take this back if someone finds some good evidence to the contrary.

If you're making that claim, then surely you must have the stats to back it up? not sure why you're asking others, if you apparently already have these to hand.

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