South Africa's travelling record since the previous RWC compared to other leading nations.

There has often been talk about the Springboks not being able to tour well, it got me thinking to how true this assumption really was, so I thought I would take the time to see what the real stats were.

I decided to take only the top 5 countries of the six nations and the three tri nation countries and compare cv’s. My reasoning is simple really. Take the countries who have played rugby for a 100 years or so and has professional structures in place.

Best travelling team.

New Zealand as we all know is the leading country in the world of rugby and has played 20 tests vs their top opponents, winning 17 out of 20 away tests for a win ratio of 85%. Their biggest obstacles in away tests are South Africa with a 50% win rate and Australia with an 80% win rate. They have not lost away to any other countries.

2nd Best travelling team.

South Africa would surprise most people is actually marginally ahead of third place rivals Australia. They have played 22 away tests, won 11 and lost 11 for a 50% win ratio. However 8 of those 11 losses are courtesy of New Zealand and Australia with a 33% and 20% win ratio respectively. Their away record in Europe is 73%.

3rd Best travelling team.

Australia narrowly misses out on the second spot with 8 wins from 19 tests, 10 losses and 1 draw, for an away win ratio of 45%. Their biggest obstacles away is New Zealand 0% and South Africa 40%, but their away win record increases when looking at their 6 nations rivals, with an away win ratio of 60%.

4th Best travelling teams.

France, Ireland and Wales have the next best away win ratio of 33%.

France played 15, won 5
Ireland played 12, won 4
Wales played 12, won 4

You could argue that France being the only six nations country that has won outside of Europe vs NZ is ahead of this group.

5th best travelling team.

England has played 13 tests away and won 3, giving them an away win ratio of 23%, but then they could claim an away win to Australia.

6th best travelling team.

You could argue that Scotland doesn’t like travelling, they have only won 1 away match to any of these opponents. Yes they have won 2 matches in Argentina, but for the sake of this debate not applicable.

So overall when looking at South Africa’s away record, it is significant that they do struggle against Australia and New Zealand away from home, but so does everyone else.

Perhaps this will enlighten a few that believe they don’t travel well.

The question also begs, even though teams will be in New Zealand for a much longer period during the RWC, perhaps there is still something to read into these stats for success at the tournament.


Addition on request of screamingaddabs

Home records

NZ played 18 won 15 lost 3 for 83%
SA played 12 won 8 lost 4 for 66%
FRA played 12 won 8 lost 4 for 66%
AUS played 17 won 11 lost 6 for 65%
IRE played 13 won 6 lost 6 drew 1 for 50%
ENG played 16 won 7 lost 9 for 43%
WAL played 18 won 6 lost 12 for 33%
SCO played 13 won 3 lost 10 for 23%

Perhaps it would be more useful to compare their home win ratio against their away win ratio. Scotland for example don't win many at home or away, so the fact they have won few away is not that surprising.

If a team won 100% home and only 60% away then they are worse travellers than a team who win 50% of games at home and 50% away. The second team are just a worse team, their results are no different away from home though so they are good travellers.

point taken, I will do that.

Good post Biltong, to summarise the other teams don't have a chance?

France and SA are really the only recent visitors to have had any success so I am wary of them (especially SA despite Pdivvy) and France are not your average predictable customer are they? Throw in a fearless Aussie team and it's actually more open than you would think!

To be honest you will probably not find too much difference I reckon!

screamingaddabs wrote:Perhaps it would be more useful to compare their home win ratio against their away win ratio. Scotland for example don't win many at home or away, so the fact they have won few away is not that surprising.

If a team won 100% home and only 60% away then they are worse travellers than a team who win 50% of games at home and 50% away. The second team are just a worse team, their results are no different away from home though so they are good travellers.

I have added it to the thread.

chewed_mintie wrote:Good post Biltong, to summarise the other teams don't have a chance?

France and SA are really the only recent visitors to have had any success so I am wary of them (especially SA despite Pdivvy) and France are not your average predictable customer are they? Throw in a fearless Aussie team and it's actually more open than you would think!

True, but I would think it would give us a clue for all the team vs one another not just vs NZ.

So Wales are as poor on the road as we are at home. Not sure whether that is a good thing on the grounds we can win away, or that we lose so many at home.

Country:Win at Away: Win Home: %difference

NZ:85:83:2
SA:50:66:16
Aus:45:65:20
Fra:33:66:33
Ire:33:50:17
Wales:33:33:0
Eng:43:23:20
Sco:8:23:15

So in order of % difference between home and away:

Wales
New Zealand
Scotland
South Africa
Ireland
Australia/England (equal)
France

Why have you not included Italy? It might not make a huge difference to SH sides but it does to the 6 nations.

Scotland have lost twice to Italy in that period. One away and one at home.

France lost to Italy away from home.

England's away wins vs Italy would boost their tally.

screamingaddabs wrote:Country:Win at Away: Win Home: %difference

NZ:83:85:2
SA:50:66:16
Aus:45:65:20
Fra:33:66:33
Ire:33:50:17
Wales:33:33:0
Eng:43:23:20
Sco:8:23:15

So in order of % difference between home and away:

Wales
New Zealand
Scotland
South Africa
Ireland
Australia/England (equal)
France

You should actually take the percentage wins away and devide it by the percentage wins at home, then you get an accurate depiction of how much poorer they travel.

NZ 85/83 = 102%
WAL 33/33 = 100%
SA 50/66 = 76%
AUS 45/65 = 69%
IRE 33/50 = 66%
ENG 23/43 = 53%
FRA 33/66 = 50%
SCO 8/23 = 35%

This tells you that NZ travels marginally better than what they play at home, an excellent stat either way.
Wales travels equally as well as what they perform at home.

So what % reduction in performance between away and home?

That is (Home%-Away%)/Home%

NZ -2%
Wal 0%
SA 24%
Aus 30%
Ire 34%
Eng 46%
Fra 50%
Sco 65%

e.g. France won 50% fewer games away than at home.

Was typing the above when you posted...

beshocked wrote:Why have you not included Italy? It might not make a huge difference to SH sides but it does to the 6 nations.

Scotland have lost twice to Italy in that period. One away and one at home.

France lost to Italy away from home.

England's away wins vs Italy would boost their tally.

Beschocked it makes little difference to the eventual outcome, it will make each team's total win percentage a smidgeon higher, but let's face it, up to know Italy has not yet looked like a team that could qualify out of their pools.

The purpose of the exercise is to look at head to head away and home win ratio's between those team in the Six nations and Tri Nations who could qualify for the quarters.

Whatever way you look at it you are right about SA. They travel well!

England travel surprisingly badly and there's no surprise about France's poor away form!

screamingaddabs wrote:Whatever way you look at it you are right about SA. They travel well!

England travel surprisingly badly and there's no surprise about France's poor away form!

Yes, I was pleasantly surprised. I suppose when you play so many tests in NZ and OZ and lose most of them, you start believing it when people say your team doesn't travel well.

I have always believed that if SA can win 80% of their home matches and 60% away, they could be close to 70% win ratio overall, so hopefully the powers that be, realises we need to work a little on our home and away record.

Hi,Biltong perhaps it would be germane to look at overall away records,and those in the professional era.
For example a total of 33 sides have beaten the All Blacks away since 1903,
Australia 12[3]
South Africa 8{3]
Lions 6
France 4[1]
England 2[2]
Rest of World [1]
Figures in parenthesis is since 1996.

One of the contributing factors to the NZ % success rate is that NZ takes every test as seriously as it possibly can, always and always has.

Thats not the same with most countries. For others the word I think is for 'tactical' reasons, the recent SA away leg being a prime example. Other examples are one offs like the Oz Samoa match and is very common when NH teams come here- the French 61-10 loss in 2007 here was a completely different side to the one that won in Cardiff.

NZ does it to a point- resting key players last week after sxv and another example is the 2004 side in the NH that swapped teams on their way to a Grand slam.

The difference is the ABs dont do it to lose tests knowingly. GH in particular will have calculated the odds and acted accordingly. In a way, we rate the wearing of the AB jersey higher than others. It is not worn to lose.

So our results are probably inflated over the years because the tours here don't always carry the best team and therefore highest expectations.

With GH bringing in all available top players he is clearly paying Oz the respect they deserve, and rightly so. This test provides an indication of where things are at, and is probably a baseline for others in terms of the standard required to win the world cup.

i would have included Italy and Argentina in the mix to continue the SH v NH comparison since 4N v 6N is nearly upon us.

Anyone got them to add into the mix?