No Delve AGAIN BUT Powell in WTF

Ok, regular posters on here and the old site will know that I have campaigned for Delve for ages and still think he is our best No8. But with his exclusion again from this weekend then I can't see him going to the WC.

I am at a complete loss to understand why someone who has performed consistently on top form in the English and SH System doesn't not at least warrant a look at coming into the WC.

I know Gatland puts a lot of stead on trainging which is why I would love someone who has a bit of reliable info from inside the camp explain what he is doing wrong.

And as for Powell being well lets hope we don't get to the position where he is relied upon for anything more than an impact player. He is nowhere good enough to control a tight game and if he gets the nod ahead of Delve then for me it will be one of the biggest puzzles in recent WRU selection policy.

apparently he's carrying an injury, or so I got off another rugby site, could be why he was released to play for his club side rather than risking a place in the Wales team, just in case he broke down during the game.

Not 100% sure it's true though.

Turk,

Thanks for that and hope its not to bad to stop him going if true.

I think the title says it all...

Maybe if delve has a slight injury hell still be considered. Im hopin anyway

Delve came back from Aust with a knee injury before he went to Poland. I suspect this has not fully recovered.

I still can't see why there is a call for Delve, he has done nothing when selected in the past, if he really wanted to play for Wales he should have stayed and hold his hand up for selection. Gatland did call him up in fairness but obviously he is not up to standard or he is not fit or both.

Gatland has said he did not want too many players injured in the squad prior to the RWC !

I think the above is the answer.

alun,

We will never agree on this topic I know that but for me he is still the best No8 we have available regardless of where he plays.

Yes he is injury prone but he has never been given a fair crack of the whip in the Welsh squad most his caps have come off bench or in weakened sides.

If Gatland is willing to take Henson with an injury then for me Delve would be far more better for us on the whole.

i've never really understood why people rave about delve. Having said that i can't believe powell is the next best option.

Bedford:

We are going to the RWC with injuries to Henson (he should not be part of the squad but on hold at home), Gethin, Adam is a risk, Preistlland is a risk, Bryne is a big risk (the only specialist FB) and 1/2 Penny. Risking Delve as well with no track record for Wales when we have good young players we could take even for the next RWC experience, I think is logical.

The chance of Powell being a possibility worries me as he has done nothing but mess up possession and going AWOL and that's on the field. Powell should not be anywhere near a professional team for off field activities.

I doubt Gats will take Henson unless it looks like his recovery will be 4 weeks or so (which could be possible with players these days..)

Anywho, Delve had an injury. A pity but there we are.

Powell, for all his faults can play very well. Maybe he's impressed in training.

alun, calm down! You're scaring me with those injuries:

Adam Jones: Fit to play! No way we'd risk him otherwise.
Priestland: Took off as a precaution. Should be ok by next week.
Byrne: Fit!
Halfpenny: Fit!

Gethin is struggling, and I'm not sure how I feel about taking him if he's injured.

I believe its worth a mention that I attended the open training session a few weeks back and to be fair Powell looked very good, although two people really stood out and that was him and Bennet which goes some way to explain the formers inclusion and backs up Gatlands reasoning for Bennets constant presence in the Welsh set up. Although I have never really been a fan of both.

glamorganalun wrote:Delve came back from Aust with a knee injury before he went to Poland. I suspect this has not fully recovered.

I still can't see why there is a call for Delve, he has done nothing when selected in the past, if he really wanted to play for Wales he should have stayed and hold his hand up for selection. Gatland did call him up in fairness but obviously he is not up to standard or he is not fit or both.

Gatland has said he did not want too many players injured in the squad prior to the RWC !

I think the above is the answer.

Delve was by far your best 8 for the last 3 seasons, played superb in arguably a much harder league AP than the ML...... and so far has been outstanding in an even harder league this term.

Doesn't that tell you something?

So I am assuming you would rather Gatland select players thatput their hands up and ply their trade in Wales next season then

Anyone remember a bloke called Bearman?Was a fairly tidy no8 at the Dragons but since going to the Ospreys he doesnt get a mention.Funny that.We could do with him now!

'harder league' - pff

Bearmans been injured for ages.

Draigoch wrote:'harder league' - pff

Bearmans been injured for ages.

Think that you'll find that he isnt!

bedfordwelsh wrote:Ok, regular posters on here and the old site will know that I have campaigned for Delve for ages and still think he is our best No8. But with his exclusion again from this weekend then I can't see him going to the WC.

I am at a complete loss to understand why someone who has performed consistently on top form in the English and SH System doesn't not at least warrant a look at coming into the WC.

You see, I don't see how Delve is our best no8. When did he last play again?? Yet you call him our best option. And for a player who was consistently on top form in the English league he weren't half gash for us.

Still, I would have liked to have seen him get an opportunity, especially over Powell. Andy isn't really a smart guy and seems to be more concerned about looking massive than playing his rugby. Rarely goes on one of his storming runs so I don't see what he offers as an impact sub either.

flyhalffactory wrote:

glamorganalun wrote:Delve came back from Aust with a knee injury before he went to Poland. I suspect this has not fully recovered.

I still can't see why there is a call for Delve, he has done nothing when selected in the past, if he really wanted to play for Wales he should have stayed and hold his hand up for selection. Gatland did call him up in fairness but obviously he is not up to standard or he is not fit or both.

Gatland has said he did not want too many players injured in the squad prior to the RWC !

I think the above is the answer.

Delve was by far your best 8 for the last 3 seasons, played superb in arguably a much harder league AP than the ML...... and so far has been outstanding in an even harder league this term.

Doesn't that tell you something?

So I am assuming you would rather Gatland select players thatput their hands up and ply their trade in Wales next season then

Damn, FHF - you do like to make definitive statements don't you? especially about Welsh Rugby! Well sorry, this time you are wrong. Delve has had a few caps now and he hasnt been the victim of "playing in poor sides" as many claim - he has been poor as an individual player. Putting in performances in the national Jersey that were not good enough even for his club. He hasnt been the best Welsh 8 for the last 3 seasons, and more importantly he certainly isn't the best 8 we have now.

I have seen him play for Bath & Gloucester - and saw a few highlights of his season in S15, and yes, at times he has looked a good prospect. But 11 caps is enough to give some indication that you are good enough for the International stage - and he has shown nothing, zip, rien, zero, boogah all.

Gatland has given him a chance that no-one expected him to get by including him in the squad despite him going down under. Do you really think that, having made that climb down, Gatland would be dumb enough to leave Delve out of his plans if he was tearing up trees in training? If you do think that, I am afraid that says more about you than it does about Gatland.

Delve is proving to be the Rugby equivalent of cricket's flat track bully. A Mark Ramprakash of the oval ball game.

I wouldnt trust him in an international match either.

Flyhalf:

He has been brought into the training squad to see what he is about, I can only assume he is not up to standard (playing/conditioning) or injured or both! I have watched a few Wales games he played in but he never finished a game. I watched on TV the game he played against Ireland and he looked OK but in fairness nobody played better than OK in that game (he played 6). I have no problem with players outside of Wales but they are out of the spotlight, it is bad enough playing in Newport with Welsh coaches. He never got a look in when he played just across the border.

I agree the AP is harder than the ML but not necessarily better from what I have watched, the play offs seem to improved the ML the last two seasons.

ML wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:

glamorganalun wrote:Delve came back from Aust with a knee injury before he went to Poland. I suspect this has not fully recovered.

I still can't see why there is a call for Delve, he has done nothing when selected in the past, if he really wanted to play for Wales he should have stayed and hold his hand up for selection. Gatland did call him up in fairness but obviously he is not up to standard or he is not fit or both.

Gatland has said he did not want too many players injured in the squad prior to the RWC !

I think the above is the answer.

Delve was by far your best 8 for the last 3 seasons, played superb in arguably a much harder league AP than the ML...... and so far has been outstanding in an even harder league this term.

Doesn't that tell you something?

So I am assuming you would rather Gatland select players thatput their hands up and ply their trade in Wales next season then

Damn, FHF - you do like to make definitive statements don't you? especially about Welsh Rugby! Well sorry, this time you are wrong. Delve has had a few caps now and he hasnt been the victim of "playing in poor sides" as many claim - he has been poor as an individual player. Putting in performances in the national Jersey that were not good enough even for his club. He hasnt been the best Welsh 8 for the last 3 seasons, and more importantly he certainly isn't the best 8 we have now.

I have seen him play for Bath & Gloucester - and saw a few highlights of his season in S15, and yes, at times he has looked a good prospect. But 11 caps is enough to give some indication that you are good enough for the International stage - and he has shown nothing, zip, rien, zero, boogah all.

Gatland has given him a chance that no-one expected him to get by including him in the squad despite him going down under. Do you really think that, having made that climb down, Gatland would be dumb enough to leave Delve out of his plans if he was tearing up trees in training? If you do think that, I am afraid that says more about you than it does about Gatland.

Delve is proving to be the Rugby equivalent of cricket's flat track bully. A Mark Ramprakash of the oval ball game.

I wouldnt trust him in an international match either.

ML
In all that, you havent said one game he played in a Welsh jersey, there's probably a good reason as well ................ come on, name one game, off the top of your head ................. waiting !!, still waiting!!......... yes thats right you can't can you.

The guy never had a decent run in the side mainly due to Gatlands "untouchables"

Anybody in the AP or probably the S15 (or even decent Welsh observers) know the quality of the guy in spite of some serious injuries............ Bath Player of the Yr, Glos Capt, Rebels Capt (took over from Motlock, first non Australian to capt a S15 side)

So tell me who has been a better 8 in the last 3 seasons then?

Your remarks smack of disrespect to a very good player

flyhalffactory

wow. What is your issue? You get so riled about welsh players. You were getting into something about hook yesterday and now delve. Well i'll tell you that ryan jones and andy powell have both at times been better than delve in the last 3 years.

It does not matter what Delve did before he joined the Welsh squad if he is now off form or did not show the right attitude during training then he should not be selected.

Injured I believe

flyhalffactory wrote:

ML
In all that, you havent said one game he played in a Welsh jersey, there's probably a good reason as well ................ come on, name one game, off the top of your head ................. waiting !!, still waiting!!......... yes thats right you can't can you.

The guy never had a decent run in the side mainly due to Gatlands "untouchables"

Anybody in the AP or probably the S15 (or even decent Welsh observers) know the quality of the guy in spite of some serious injuries............ Bath Player of the Yr, Glos Capt, Rebels Capt (took over from Motlock, first non Australian to capt a S15 side)

So tell me who has been a better 8 in the last 3 seasons then?

Your remarks smack of disrespect to a very good player

OK - that is an unreasonable reply FHF (not that I am surprised after reading your input elsewhere), so i hope the mods will allow me a moment to reply in kind.

FHF

Unlike you I am Welsh, and passionate about Welsh Rugby. I have actually seen ALL his performances for Wales as I have seen EVERY Welsh International Match for the last 30 years - many of them live at grounds around the world. In the professional era I have seen most of the games in their entirety, any that I have NOT been able to watch the full 80 minutes I have seen at least extended highlights.

Gareth Delve has been worse than ordinary in a Wales shirt. Sorry if that doesnt agree with your world view, but that is fact. Even when he got 3 substitute appearances in the last Grand Slam side he was ineffective. The fact is he has had 11 shots at the national side, and has failed even to displace the frankly ordinary Andy Powell in the pecking order. Even on the 2006 tour against a weak Argentina (his best performances by a country mile) he was hardly outstanding.

I dont give a Poopie if you think he is the best number 8 in Wales - it just adds to your frankly potty view of Welsh Rugby as expressed on these boards - it simply isnt true. You sir, are a blowhard, constantly confrontational, constantly belittling other people's entirely reasonable points of view. You constantly push your own point of view (however outlandish) as accepted orthodoxy and seek to undermine and insult anyone who disagrees with you. You are a nasty bitter little man, and your own pronouncements on the Welsh side are laughable.

Funny how you claim such intimacy with the Welsh Game and can spot all its faults, yet you have no interest in the game anywhere else, least of all your own national side.Why aren't you coaching the Scottish team? I am sure with your keen insight to the game, your unbounded knowledge and of course your self proclaimed infallibility we will see Scotland bringing home the 2015 World Cup.

Now do me a favour? OFF

ML wrote:
You sir, are a blowhard, constantly confrontational, constantly belittling other people's entirely reasonable points of view. You constantly push your own point of view (however outlandish) as accepted orthodoxy and seek to undermine and insult anyone who disagrees with you.

Very well put ML. I agree.

Draigoch wrote:

ML wrote:
You sir, are a blowhard, constantly confrontational, constantly belittling other people's entirely reasonable points of view. You constantly push your own point of view (however outlandish) as accepted orthodoxy and seek to undermine and insult anyone who disagrees with you.

Very well put ML. I agree.

True.

ML wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:

ML
In all that, you havent said one game he played in a Welsh jersey, there's probably a good reason as well ................ come on, name one game, off the top of your head ................. waiting !!, still waiting!!......... yes thats right you can't can you.

The guy never had a decent run in the side mainly due to Gatlands "untouchables"

Anybody in the AP or probably the S15 (or even decent Welsh observers) know the quality of the guy in spite of some serious injuries............ Bath Player of the Yr, Glos Capt, Rebels Capt (took over from Motlock, first non Australian to capt a S15 side)

So tell me who has been a better 8 in the last 3 seasons then?

Your remarks smack of disrespect to a very good player

OK - that is an unreasonable reply FHF (not that I am surprised after reading your input elsewhere), so i hope the mods will allow me a moment to reply in kind.

FHF

Unlike you I am Welsh, and passionate about Welsh Rugby. I have actually seen ALL his performances for Wales as I have seen EVERY Welsh International Match for the last 30 years - many of them live at grounds around the world. In the professional era I have seen most of the games in their entirety, any that I have NOT been able to watch the full 80 minutes I have seen at least extended highlights.

Gareth Delve has been worse than ordinary in a Wales shirt. Sorry if that doesnt agree with your world view, but that is fact. Even when he got 3 substitute appearances in the last Grand Slam side he was ineffective. The fact is he has had 11 shots at the national side, and has failed even to displace the frankly ordinary Andy Powell in the pecking order. Even on the 2006 tour against a weak Argentina (his best performances by a country mile) he was hardly outstanding.

I dont give a Poopie if you think he is the best number 8 in Wales - it just adds to your frankly potty view of Welsh Rugby as expressed on these boards - it simply isnt true. You sir, are a blowhard, constantly confrontational, constantly belittling other people's entirely reasonable points of view. You constantly push your own point of view (however outlandish) as accepted orthodoxy and seek to undermine and insult anyone who disagrees with you. You are a nasty bitter little man, and your own pronouncements on the Welsh side are laughable.

Funny how you claim such intimacy with the Welsh Game and can spot all its faults, yet you have no interest in the game anywhere else, least of all your own national side.Why aren't you coaching the Scottish team? I am sure with your keen insight to the game, your unbounded knowledge and of course your self proclaimed infallibility we will see Scotland bringing home the 2015 World Cup.

Now do me a favour? OFF

Lets see now toys ohhh pram, getting to you is it.....that you can't get your own way. if you can't discuss without remarks and then don't like the reply then don't make the remarks.

Ok two things.
Firstly
It wasn't an unreasonable reply at all, you came out with a one liner which in your eyes epitomised Delve, now been a Cardiff boy the Blues who work for me thought that one liner showed how little you really knew, in their eyes ....... injuries, 15 minute cameos, playiing in a poor pack, Gatlands boys like Jon Thomas playing less than average, they seem to think he had 4 maybe 5 games better than many in the pack. And here you are saying he has never played well, they run off 4 games without thinking one of which he scored a try

Secondly
1. on the scottish board we are pretty analytical, and rarely will you get one liners
2. on the scottish board mostly I agree with the view so to duplicate seems pointless.
3. I will post on the scotland selection and often do If i see a reason to
4. you rarely see edinburgh or glasgow posters advocating their own players to the detriment of the national team, even with Parks or Walker who haven't really performed in the past but e.g. we can see that Walker is in some form so don't redicule his selection
5. one liner ............. without basis , or promoting a player by running down another is well lets say immature.

And as its a forum board, well I'll challenge any view I will find innacurate or without basis if I fell that I have some accuracy, and I post on the English boards as well, quite often promoting the Welsh

Grow up

I see you got into another fight ML

Anyway, on the issue of Delve, I've always felt he's been unlucky not to get a run of games in the Welsh shirt. Injury really seems to have done for his international career early on and now a move down under certainly hasn't helped. He's a solid ball carrier which a lot of Welsh fans look at and see as very useful at 8. In comparison to Ryan Jones who falls to the ground before anyone lays a finger on him that's a good proposition. Anyway, this debate was relevant 12 months ago, now we've got Faletau pushing for a place and next year maybe Ben Morgans also. We won't be worrying too much about Delve by then.

Delve has been less than stellar for Wales whether or not he has been in weakened teams or other excuses apply. However, in his last season for Gloucester he was excellent and carried that form to the SH.

He got his call up, and either has failed to impress or is carrying a knock. That's the obvious conclusion. We can also conclude that Delve does not have any dodgy photos of Gatland as Bennett clearly does. We can also conclude that Bennett has shared those photos with buggy boy as there can be no other reason for his inclusion.

OK as original poster I was hoping this thread wud spark debate which it has but not the bickering.

FOr me Delve SHOULD be in the squad and at least have had some game time unless carrying a knock - otherwise why name him in the first place.

What I can't understand is Gatlands persistence with Bennett, who lets be honest as been downright awful oher than for the last two outings but has failed to give Delve any worthy game time.

bedford - it's not just Bennett - at large periods of the last 2 years - even 3 in some cases, Bennett, JT, R Jones, Powell, Phillips, Cooper and even Yapp (though he hasn't had many starts) have all been average at best, very poor at worst but have all been continually picked and allowed to play themselves into form even if they haven't been performing for their region.

The games I've seen Delve in for Wales he certainly hasn't played worse than Powell, Bennett or JT and unlike those has been getting regular gametime and playing well for his club/region.

If he's injured (which seems to be the case) then fair enough, but to say he's had more than enough chances for Wales and doesn't deserve anymore is crazy (at least if measuring against Gatlands selection criteria) - and this also goes for when people claim the same about Brew.

SP,

I agree totally with you, but for some reason that only the management and Delve will know he just doesn't seem to fit into their plans.

I have heard (but only from Glaws fans) that Delve is certainly NOT a yes man and even when at Kingsholm had some strong arguments with the coaches about how things were going etc. They could obviously work with that maybe Gatland can't - who knows?

I am glad he stuck with R Jones as despite knocking him he still IMO has something to offer Wales but the rest are more than lucky he stuck with them.

Bedford - I'm glad he stuck with R Jones as I think he can offer a lot - but at times he did need to be dropped (he definately started to perform better when he lost the captancy and wasn't a certainty for either Wales or Ospreys), as there were other options at 8.

I heard a rumour that the reason Peel is out of favour isn't coz he plays in England but because he isn't a yes man and lets people know his opinion. Apparently (not much hard facts behind this) Gats likes yes men like S Jones, Bennett, M Williams - and if anyone causes waves then their out.

So looks like Lydiate, Warburton and Jones will be our best back-row with Faletau and Turnbull as back-up. Unless we're taking 6 back-row forwards? Hope Ryan has a good game sat, I took advantage of the two for one offer this weekend.

rugbydreamer wrote:Reminder for behaviour on this thread: please debate the topic at hand, not attack one another personally. It is entirely unnecessary. Thanks.

Ive only been here about a week or so, but it seems you dont get a good debate without dropping some personal insults!

On that note....

Delve maybe just a player that does not transfer his undoubtedly good club form into international training/tests....

plus....

9. Phillips
10. Hook
11. Williams
12. Roberts
13. Williams(scott)
14. North
15. Priestland

SCREW YOU ALL!

Nottings I get the feeling Faletau will be our number one 8 - and I think Ryan's been playing well I feel he's better suited to lock or 6 (cover for Lydiate) than 8, it's just a shame we couldn't blood someone else at 8. I don't think we can expect Ryan to play any position to a high level if he's constantly switched between 3 or 4 positions.