Delve "unavailable" - WTF?

Can someone explain the situation with regards to Delve (and Peel for that matter) and the Welsh RWC training squad? Why is he apparently "unavailable" for training? I read that Peel can't take part in training because of some Jeff contractual rubbish - is Delve bound by the same issues? If this is the case, then it must be that neither has trained at all with the Welsh camp yet, and won't be able to do so until August - which seems to immediately put them at a huge disadvantage in terms of making the final cut. If this is the case, why have they been named in this initial "training squad" if it's something they can't be part of? I'm confused.

I imagine they don't get to go because they are contracted and remunerated by another organisation who is not obliged to let them p*ss off without being compensated. Why is this so difficult to understand?

Marcus, it's been known for a while that neither will be available until August 4th I think. Something like that anyway. It does really harm their chances of making the final squad, but that's just the way it goes.

The players for the world cup HAVE to be available a certain period before the cup (35 days I think). If the unions want their players outside of this period they have to come to an agreement with their employer. In England the PRL represent the clubs in all dealings with outside bodies, Sky, RFU, other unions, etc. If they don't agree they aren't available. The Scottish players were made available last Monday. Welsh players weren't for whatever reason. It seems the Australians have gone the same way. Not sure if there are any other players from the Rebels who have been released.

It's the price they pay for not playing their rugby in Wales.
That's the long and short of it, of course the problem is when they leave a young player will come along and get the chance for Wales and take their spot. Everyone who has left Wales will probably be replaced after the World Cup.

I thought Delve wasn't available because the Melbourne Rebels (is it?) are having a tour of England at the moment and so he's playing in that - but (not having looked into it) I'd assumed he'd be available before Peel.

With regards to Peel and all over England based players I understand both sides - the PRL are trying to get the maximum amount of money so they can reinvest in the EPL clubs and make them stronger - hence playing such hard ball with the ERU, and are hardly likely to weaken their position by allowing foreign players to leave outside of int. windows. And also they want to be paid as insurance.
The WRU on the other hand want to keep all the money they have in Wales and invest it in regions/grass roots/prem clubs to improve the Welsh game - and also I feel don't think it's worth negotiating with the PRL as there's only a few England based players that are likely to get into the Wales team. Scotland on the other hand have to as a lot of their players play in England...

As far as I'm aware there were no payments from the SRU to the PRL. There were definitely limits to the type of training they could do. It's not just about money. I big part of it is to ensure that their players have a decent rest period. Of course it's about their investment so technically it IS about money. Players were released to the PI teams as well. The only side that seems to have an issue is the WRU. Not sure if it's down to the RPL.

As far as I was aware (and someone on here posted a thread to a news story on another thread) it was because the SRU and a few others agreed to pay/take out/or agree to cover extra insurance for the players during the periods outside the Int. Windows, which the WRU flat out refused to do (and refused to enter into negotiations with the PRL)

But all this came from a news paper/BBC so who knows if it's right...

well rees has been released so unless we are going with shane as our 3rd choice 9 , peel is going with phillips and knoyle.

Delve must have had a good season but I think he is over hyped by many in the media and on the message boards.

Although with no powell and JT he must be fighting it out with mccusker for place on the plane

not Lloyd Williams then JB?

I would have thought that the union covering the players' insurance during their extra time with them was a given to be honest. I was talking about extra funding as in a simple payout, like the RFU give them.

I wouldn't expect lloyd to do but maybe he will, suppose it will be a good learning experience for him and peel doesn;t seem to in gatland's good books.

But would you prefer williams or peel in a must win world cup game?

for me it;s dwayne all the way

oh yeah tis definitely Dwayne for me, would always pick him.

Just saying that there are 3 scrum half's in the training squad without him, so Gatland who doesn't seem to like Peel much anyway, might very well not take him.

Smirnoff, you like a few Welsh posters seem to think that Scotland have a claim over their English based players. I must confess that, if they do, this progress hasn't been in any reports I have seen. In fact, I know that the first WC training camp had only the home-based players as the English and Freench based players were with their clubs. I am not even sure if Lamont and Walker were released by the Welsh regions. I guess it is a price that we have to pay for being smaller unions and therefore having less leverage than the English clubs have.

Apologies if not true, its only what i read in the papers/Beeb website, and the fact that i've never heard of any wrangles between the SRU and the PRL in the papers, in the same way as there always seems to be between the WRU and the PRL

I think that is because, up here, rugby has such a low profile compared to the religious baiting they call soccerball that any animosity between SRU and PRL woudln'ot be reported.
Rugby only hits the back pages during the 6N but, for the rest of the year, it is "Celtic/Rangers* (*= delete as appropriate) star breaks wind at training" with 3 pages of medical analysis of what may have caused it

InjuredYetAgain wrote:Smirnoff, you like a few Welsh posters seem to think that Scotland have a claim over their English based players. I must confess that, if they do, this progress hasn't been in any reports I have seen. In fact, I know that the first WC training camp had only the home-based players as the English and Freench based players were with their clubs. I am not even sure if Lamont and Walker were released by the Welsh regions. I guess it is a price that we have to pay for being smaller unions and therefore having less leverage than the English clubs have.

There was a quote from Robinson in late June that he was looking forwards for the non-home based players to all join the training camp from the first Monday in July so they would have everyone together.
The English clubs have released other players for international call ups even earlier, like the PI players who took part in the Churchill Cup then the Pacific Nations Cup.

I knew Peel wasn't available but this is the first I have read about Delve.

I know players like Mitchell and Powell (if selected) would be free as their new contracts not start until after the WC

bedfordwelsh wrote:I knew Peel wasn't available but this is the first I have read about Delve.

I know players like Mitchell and Powell (if selected) would be free as their new contracts not start until after the WC

Probably didn't hear about it until now because it didn't involve England in some way.

PS not a dig at you, just the way things are reported.

Even if Delve does not join up with the squad until 4 Aug the IMO he is still worth the gamble and should go to the WC as 1st Choice No8.

With Powell, Thomas and Rees dropped from the training squad then I think both will still go.

MarcusHalberstram wrote:Can someone explain the situation with regards to Delve (and Peel for that matter) and the Welsh RWC training squad? Why is he apparently "unavailable" for training? I read that Peel can't take part in training because of some Jeff contractual rubbish - is Delve bound by the same issues? If this is the case, then it must be that neither has trained at all with the Welsh camp yet, and won't be able to do so until August - which seems to immediately put them at a huge disadvantage in terms of making the final cut. If this is the case, why have they been named in this initial "training squad" if it's something they can't be part of? I'm confused.

By contractual rubbish you mean the IRB rules?

These Welsh boys need to get themselves better agents

The thing with the IRB laws that are in place to protect the clubs interests is that the national governing bodies that look after the players under the national unions, allow players to play for nations outside IRB windows thus it is just for some but not for others.

If the IRB windows were adminstered as the IRB intended then no players would be allowed to join their national squads until August the fourth.

The current situation involves massive amounts of money paid in compensation to let unions have more access when they want it.

I think the IRB need to re evaluate their windows system to make it fair for all and not just for some and not so expensive.

good point Maestegmafia - this would also help look after player welfare as well

maestegmafia wrote:The thing with the IRB laws that are in place to protect the clubs interests is that the national governing bodies that look after the players under the national unions, allow players to play for nations outside IRB windows thus it is just for some but not for others.

If the IRB windows were adminstered as the IRB intended then no players would be allowed to join their national squads until August the fourth.

The current situation involves massive amounts of money paid in compensation to let unions have more access when they want it.

I think the IRB need to re evaluate their windows system to make it fair for all and not just for some and not so expensive.

Who is it not just for? The clubs/domestic sides are relatively happy. The PI sides seems happy as they're granted extra time with their players (and it'sunlikely for any money as they don't have any). There's only one side that's complaining at the moment and that's Wales (who have a deal with the Regions to get more time). Where is the problem?

maestegmafia wrote:The thing with the IRB laws that are in place to protect the clubs interests is that the national governing bodies that look after the players under the national unions, allow players to play for nations outside IRB windows thus it is just for some but not for others.

If the IRB windows were adminstered as the IRB intended then no players would be allowed to join their national squads until August the fourth.

The current situation involves massive amounts of money paid in compensation to let unions have more access when they want it.

I think the IRB need to re evaluate their windows system to make it fair for all and not just for some and not so expensive.

I'm sorry but you are, as you seem to keep doing on this topic, relying on unsupported opinion rather than facts - that Scotland and the PI nations, none of whom are flush with money, seem to have been able to get early release of their players is a really strong indicator that despite what you keep claiming a Union doesn't need to spend much, if any, money on getting early release of their players from the English and French clubs. The laws are currently in place because the unions agreed them amongst themselves to look after their own interests - to make sure they got what they felt was the minimum amount of time with their players, rather than to protect the clubs.

Snoopster, in fairness to Maesteg he was told by a number of English posters (in his post about Peel's release) that Scotland pays for early player release and that Wales should do the same or shut up. Now people are saying that Scotland doesn't pay. How do they do it then? That's the big question.