Aironi - 2011/2012 Season

A review looking at Aironi's chances in the new season. Last season was a very tough year for Aironi. The pack did fairly well in terms of possesion but to be honest Mercier was a weak signing for them at 10 last season. This seasons signings look a lot more promising I feel.

New players this season:-
Tommaso d'Apice - Hooker
Carlo Festuccia - Hooker (unconfirmed)
Tyson Keats - Scrum Half
Luciano Orquera - Fly Half
Naas Oliver - Fly Half
Andrea Masi - Centre
Ruggero Trevison - Full Back
Frans Viljoen - Back Row

Aironi already had a big pack and signing Viljoen, d'Apice and Festuccia will just strengthen them there. I expect Aironi to provide their Half backs enough ball to secure wins. They have looked at their options at 9 and 10 and clearly gone out to strengthen there by adding Keats, Orquera and Oliver to the mix. All Keats & Oliver have a decent amount of S15 experience and Orquera brings over 70 caps and French Top 14 experience with him. All positive signings. For me though the best signing without doubt is Andrea Masi. Im certain he will probably play inside centre but he could feature outside Quartaroli during the season. Trevison at full back has been promoted from the Italian league and is viewed as a promising prospect at Full Back. He is already expected to feature for them heavily after his Italy "A" team performances.

9 Players are away with Italy and the coaches at times last year made some strange selections. I do think we may see a lot of their stars playing this year as I expect the Italian sides to take the league extremely serious as they are fighting for a renewal for the end of the season.

If they lineup like this more often than not I see them doing very well this year:-

1. Perugini - they insisted on playing him at tighthead last year
2. Ongaro
3. Staibano
4. Geldenhuys (C)
5. Bortolami
6. F. Viljoen
7. J. Sole or A. Benatti
8. N. Williams

9. T. Keats
10. N. Oliver
11. M. Pratichetti
12. A. Masi
13. R. Quartaroli
14. G. Toniolatti
15. R. Trevisan

For me the backline looks a lot more potent this year and I'm glad to see them bringing some of their seasoned Internationals back to the area. The big problem for them will be selection. The coaches have often insisted on playing people out of position. They can probably field one of the heaviest pack in the league. The real issue will be how the backs develop and how quickly both Oliver and Orquera can bed in.

Prediction - On paper they really are looking good in my opinion. They still need a coach with a good reputation. I think they are stronger this year than last year. I think the Scottish sides have not recruited well or progressed enough. With that in mind I think Aironi could pull off a 8/9 finish. For me I think Masi could be a inspired signing for them which may spark the backline a little.

How about Bocchino for the out half position?

He's going to be involved - no dount in my mind.

That said I got a sneaky feeling Oliver will win the battle by the end of the season. They are certanly well stocked at 10 this year which can only be good news incase one of them fails to perform.

I swear they must have more money than Treviso because some of those signings cant be cheap.

[quote="Welshmushroom"] I swear they must have more money than Treviso because some of those signings cant be cheap. [/quote]

Might that be because they are more of a region and Treviso are more like a club?

The 2 are equally funded by the Italian Union and status (Region or Club) has no bearing with funding. The only real difference is the income they have received from Private Investors. Treviso are backed by the Bennetton Group so they are loaded. But I didnt think other than Italian funding Aironi had a sugar daddy. Clearly they must have.

Andrea Masi - Centre

Is that a different Andrea Masi to the one that's lining up for Italy at full back this weekend?

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Andrea Masi - Centre

Is that a different Andrea Masi to the one that's lining up for Italy at full back this weekend?

Yes.

Looks as though Bocchino has been released.

[quote="Welshmushroom"]The 2 are equally funded by the Italian Union and status (Region or Club) has no bearing with funding. The only real difference is the income they have received from Private Investors. Treviso are backed by the Bennetton Group so they are loaded. But I didnt think other than Italian funding Aironi had a sugar daddy. Clearly they must have.
[/quote]

Ah ok thanks for clearing that up, is this artical part of a series or is it just on Aironi?

Was toying with going for a series - like 1 a day or something like that. Thought I would test the water first.

As for the Masi transfer I think it is "The Masi". I looked at Wiki and under Racing Metro is appears he's left them to join Aironi. I've not seen a official annoucement and the IRFU are still showing Masi at Racing. This transfer wasnt confirmed by any reliable source (although wiki dosnt usually get it wrong). Also the Rabbo site (which is up and running is showing him on there so he must have been registered by Aironi in the intial Rabbo squad.

The players released I think still fall in Aironi's bracket like Bocchino & Cannavasio, although I suspect they may be turning out for sides in the Italian league and only appearing occasionally.

Welshmushroom wrote:Was toying with going for a series - like 1 a day or something like that. Thought I would test the water first.

Go for it if you have the time and interest,I'd definitely follow it if you decide to do a series.

Yep, it is 'The Andrea Masi'!:

http://www.rugbyweek.com/news/article.asp?id=30733

Good signing. Didn't realise he won player of the 6N, which is no mean feat for a player in the team finishing bottom of the table. Good effort.

Sadly though the Italian teams have made a massive mistake in signing foreign players, Italy wont improve and the games profile wont be raised unless they develop their own players.

Yep true enough. That said you have to be impressed that Aironi are bringing back a fair view of the current Italian internationals. I wonder if they will ever target Parisse?

I think we will see a development in their youth system at some point. I do think the reason it wont happen this year is down to the temporary status in the league. I personally hope the Celtic sides get together and include them permanently. They have the ability to grow the game there and commercially with a population of 50odd million people there they could add prestigue to the league. They will get better in time. I just hope they dont keep giving them short term deals and extend entry to the Rabbo on a permanent basis.

[quote="Welshmushroom"]Yep true enough. That said you have to be impressed that Aironi are bringing back a fair view of the current Italian internationals. I wonder if they will ever target Parisse? [/quote]

That would be huge for them but really its unlikely he'll come back until he's older.

I think Parisse's heart is in Paris same as Castro's who chose Leicester over a return to Italy or a big money move to France.

Welshmushroom wrote:Yep true enough. That said you have to be impressed that Aironi are bringing back a fair view of the current Italian internationals. I wonder if they will ever target Parisse?

I think we will see a development in their youth system at some point. I do think the reason it wont happen this year is down to the temporary status in the league. I personally hope the Celtic sides get together and include them permanently. They have the ability to grow the game there and commercially with a population of 50odd million people there they could add prestigue to the league. They will get better in time. I just hope they dont keep giving them short term deals and extend entry to the Rabbo on a permanent basis.

I think the Italians will outgrow the Celtic league, as they'll want more than to teams, and the celtic league can only really have 12 and Scotland and Wales will want additional teams as well.

The Italians will want to add a capital side Praetorians Roma, to try and promote rugby in a mass population base, and also in June 2010 Cavalieri Prato merged with other 10 tuscan rugby clubs to form "Cavalieri Toscana Rugby Eccellenza", a new rugby franchise with the aim to represent the professional élite rugby of region Tuscany.

Thats 4 teams Italy could have, I believe this could either see the Celtic league expand to 14 teams, and it deamed to late for the Scots or Welsh to add teams, or the Italians would leave in a number of years and form there own league with there 4 regions and some German and Romanian teams.

Scotland and Wales will want additional teams as well

I don't think the SRFU can afford to run another team and the Welsh regions don't get big enough crowds to make it worth bringing in another region. The Italian teams will need to cement their place in the Pro12 before they can slot in a couple more franchises. Can't see the Irish lot being to keen on additional fixtures either. The IRFU have managed to position their regions into regular HEC action they won't want Munster, Ulster and Leinster making more trips abroad and having the players more tired for the HEC and international call ups.

Nope indeed - that said eventually I think Italy will grow to 4 teams and an expansion will be on the cards because of the likely commercial clout involved. Keep in mind the total Italian population is about 5 times the size of all the celtic populations combined. Expanding to 14 may not be totally optimal for the league though so I am not sure if some of the existing clubs could be in danger. If I was Scottish I would be nervous if that discussion took place (only because they are under funded to be competitive enough by their Union and attendance figures are not as good as others). That said I think they would go to 14 teams before cutting 2 existing teams from the league.

[quote="Kingshu"][quote="Welshmushroom"]Yep true enough. That said you have to be impressed that Aironi are bringing back a fair view of the current Italian internationals. I wonder if they will ever target Parisse?

I think we will see a development in their youth system at some point. I do think the reason it wont happen this year is down to the temporary status in the league. I personally hope the Celtic sides get together and include them permanently. They have the ability to grow the game there and commercially with a population of 50odd million people there they could add prestigue to the league. They will get better in time. I just hope they dont keep giving them short term deals and extend entry to the Rabbo on a permanent basis. [/quote]

I think the Italians will outgrow the Celtic league, as they'll want more than to teams, and the celtic league can only really have 12 and Scotland and Wales will want additional teams as well.

The Italians will want to add a capital side Praetorians Roma, to try and promote rugby in a mass population base, and also in June 2010 Cavalieri Prato merged with other 10 tuscan rugby clubs to form "Cavalieri Toscana Rugby Eccellenza", a new rugby franchise with the aim to represent the professional élite rugby of region Tuscany.

Thats 4 teams Italy could have, I believe this could either see the Celtic league expand to 14 teams, and it deamed to late for the Scots or Welsh to add teams, or the Italians would leave in a number of years and form there own league with there 4 regions and some German and Romanian teams.

[/quote]

The Italians be better severed in joining their league in Italy with clubs from those countrys and maybe others like Spain which might be better as German and Romanian clubs possibly joining a league with Russian clubs.

[quote="formerly known as Sam"][quote]Scotland and Wales will want additional teams as well[/quote]

I don't think the SRFU can afford to run another team and the Welsh regions don't get big enough crowds to make it worth bringing in another region. The Italian teams will need to cement their place in the Pro12 before they can slot in a couple more franchises. Can't see the Irish lot being to keen on additional fixtures either. The IRFU have managed to position their regions into regular HEC action they won't want Munster, Ulster and Leinster making more trips abroad and having the players more tired for the HEC and international call ups.[/quote]

I dont think the Irish teams will care much its only two extra trips and their will just play younger players.

The Italians be better severed in joining their league in Italy with clubs from those countrys and maybe others like Spain which might be better as German and Romanian clubs possibly joining a league with Russian clubs.

Have a second teir league involving Italian, Spanish and Portugese teams where the winner has the opportunity to play the worst Italian team for their place in the Pro12? That would be interesting.

Suppose you could include promotion and relegation which would stop bottom sides from becoming complacent. On the downside that scenario could see both Scottish sides in the 2nd Division long term which from their stand point would be unacceptable.

As for promotion and relegation. It may serve the competition better but to be honest I prefer the current system as it helps players development. I dont want to see the same thing as in the AP, where sides become so focused on the current season they fail to plan a long term goal.

I think Italy, as mentioned, will want more teams but they are a long way off getting that wish at the moment.

I think they will get 1 extra in about 5 years and Wales will add North Wales at the same time to make it a 14 team league.

After that I can see Italy getting another side and Scotland adding a 3rd, maybe Caledonia, but realistically that is 10 years away.

The league has constantly evolved, changed and developed in the last 10 years but at this point I could see it becoming a home or away league like the Super 15.

But I think that would be fine as with 16 teams it would give you 15 games plus say a top 8 quarter final.

Along with the HC this should be enough games for each 'club' and if not then I expect the reverse local fixtures would take place to give a few more games.

I don't see the Celtic League ever having promotion and relegation, as no Union would vote for it, in fear of having teams or even all it's teams in the lower teir.

If Italy want 4 teams in a few years, the league may expand, and RGC1404 and scottish 3rd team won't get in, is prob the way it will go.

[quote="formerly known as Sam"][quote]The Italians be better severed in joining their league in Italy with clubs from those countrys and maybe others like Spain which might be better as German and Romanian clubs possibly joining a league with Russian clubs. [/quote]

Have a second teir league involving Italian, Spanish and Portugese teams where the winner has the opportunity to play the worst Italian team for their place in the Pro12? That would be interesting.[/quote]

Yeah it would be actually but the thing is at what point do you stop adding teams to that league from, for example Germany, Romania, Russia, Georgia? A home and away league with the last to would be impossible because of the war they had a few years ago so its a delicate balance.

Kingshu wrote:I think the Italians will outgrow the Celtic league, as they'll want more than to teams, and the celtic league can only really have 12 and Scotland and Wales will want additional teams as well.

The Italians will want to add a capital side Praetorians Roma, to try and promote rugby in a mass population base, and also in June 2010 Cavalieri Prato merged with other 10 tuscan rugby clubs to form "Cavalieri Toscana Rugby Eccellenza", a new rugby franchise with the aim to represent the professional élite rugby of region Tuscany.

Thats 4 teams Italy could have, I believe this could either see the Celtic league expand to 14 teams, and it deamed to late for the Scots or Welsh to add teams, or the Italians would leave in a number of years and form there own league with there 4 regions and some German and Romanian teams.

wow! How rare to find someone who has done some research and read up on things, great post to read thank
you .

I was considering the other day about a second division for the Magners league, involving teams from other countries.
If Funding wasn't a problem then here's what I came up with:

1 Scottish Borders (Scotland)
2 Caledonia Reds (Scotland)
3 Praetorians Roma (Rome, Italy)
4 Duchi Nord-Ovest (Veneto, Italy)
5 Rygbi Gogledd Cymru 1404 (North Wales Wales)
6 Baden-Wurttemberg Province (Germany)
7 CRC Madrid Noroeste (Spain, Real Madrid want a rugby team for their sporting portfolio)
8) Barcelona (As above for Barcelona)
9) Bucureşti Oaks (Bucharest, Romania)
10) VVA-Podmoskovye (Moscow Russia)

Other options:
Based on their rugby stadiums sizes.
Amatori Rugby Milano (Milan)
Petrarca Padova (Padova)

The club season is actually 38 weeks long, so there is no reason why you could not have a 20 team league, however you would have to accept second teams would play during European windows and you'd have to play through the International windows too.
Thoreically you could have a 22 team league which is 42 weeks long, though you must have a 10 week off season under IRB rules.

Thats a good list there you have Alyn I'd add some sort of Georgian XV to that and another Italian team to even up the numbers and maybe have a play-off with the bothem side in the Pro12.

Irish Curry wrote:Thats a good list there you have Alyn I'd add some sort of Georgian XV to that and another Italian team to even up the numbers and maybe have a play-off with the bothem side in the Pro12.

RC Lelo Tbilisi
RC Army Tbilisi
RC Locomotive Tbilisi
RC Wissol Kochebi
RC AIA Kutaisi
RC Academia Tbilisi
RC Kharebi (Bulls) Rustavi
RC Armazi Tbilisi

5 of Georgia's 8 Premiership clubs are actually based in Tbilisi the countries capital, and they do pull 35,000 fans for International matches the problem is only 9 of Georgia's 32 man World Cup training squad play in Georgia, the other 23 play in France. So i'm not sure how beneficial a Georgian team would be.

[quote="AlynDavies"][quote="Irish Curry"]Thats a good list there you have Alyn I'd add some sort of Georgian XV to that and another Italian team to even up the numbers and maybe have a play-off with the bothem side in the Pro12.[/quote]

RC Lelo Tbilisi
RC Army Tbilisi
RC Locomotive Tbilisi
RC Wissol Kochebi
RC AIA Kutaisi
RC Academia Tbilisi
RC Kharebi (Bulls) Rustavi
RC Armazi Tbilisi

5 of Georgia's 8 Premiership clubs are actually based in Tbilisi the countries capital, and they do pull 35,000 fans for International matches the problem is only 9 of Georgia's 32 man World Cup training squad play in Georgia, the other 23 play in France. So i'm not sure how beneficial a Georgian team would be.[/quote]

Well they might go down the Italian way of using money to bring some players back and using younger players? Its worked there so far.