Munster - Season 2011/2012

A review looking at Munster's chances in the new season. Last season the stand out team in the Pro 12. They have the biggest squad in the league with very capable stand ins. The rotational policy Munster employed during the season ended up with them running away with the No 1 spot.

New players this season:-
Ian Keatley – Fly Half
BJ Botha - Prop


Well they went out and replaced Buckley with a better Tighthead in BJ Botha. Great at scrum time which is essentially what you want from a Tighthead Prop. Keatley impressed me with Connacht last year and again I think O’Gara will be used rarely in the Pro 12 this year and Keatley is a proven point machine at this level. They have had some unlucky retirements in Dowling, Murphy and Quinlan (although Quinlan was expected to retire). 9 Players at the World Cup with Felix Jones likely to be out for the early part of the season may hamper the selection a little. That said they clearly think a lot of the up and comers as they didn’t strengthen in their positions. Danny Barnes was outstanding last year. Reminds me of a young O’Driscoll with his urgency with ball in hand. If he can play like that and avoid second season syndrome he may well prove a major difference for Munster in the league. The main question mark in the early season is does the second row have what it takes? Nagle and Foley will be tested and to me they still look a little lightweight for the boiler house.

A possible opening lineup may look like this:-

1. W. du Preez
2. D. Varley
3. BJ Botha
4. M. O’Driscoll
5. D. Foley
6. B. Holland / T. O’Donnell
7. N. Ronan
8. J. Coughlan

9. T. O’Leary
10. I. Keatley
11. S. Zebo
12. L. Mafi
13. D. Barnes
14. D. Howlett
15. J. Murphy / D. Hurley

That looks an excellent side. Particularly dangerous in the backs with Zebo impressing me too. I can see this team scoring tries in the early season. The pack looks as good as anything in the opening exchanges and I can see Munster carrying on where they left off last season. If sides can stick with them in the first 6/7 matches and keep the point margin close then they may not finish first in the league. The first opening 6 games look to favour them as well and I could see them winning all 6 of them. I must admit I am not sure of the injury status on players though so if we will see the team above remains to be seen.

Prediction – For me this is an easy one to call. They will finish the season top of the league. I’m not sure they will win it though as I would rule out a loss in the Final. That said I think they will be in the final come the end of the season.

13. R Quartaroli????? Who?

Darragh Hurley, BJ Botha and Felix Jones are injured for next few weeks while I expect to see:

du Preez, Varley, Archer
O'Driscoll, Nagle
O'Mahony, Coughlan, Ronan
O'Leary, Keatley
Mafi, Barnes
Zebo, Murphy, Howlett

Sherry, Horan, Borlase, Holland, Butler, Stringer, Cusack, Hurley

how is borlase coming along stag
is he any use at all.
Have munster got a scrum coach or will bj be taking it

BJ will be scrum coach. Borlase will never be amazing. Reckon he'll have an ok season this year. He only arrived in November and was expected to get stuck in straight away. I expect him to fare better with preseason under his belt. Archer is ahead of him in pecking order.

Stringer, O'Leary and Williams are great options at 9.

Happy with the prospect of Keatley, Hanrahan and Deasy getting game time at 12 too.

I'm hoping Munster go and look for a top class number 6 if one of them looks the part.

My Bad.... copied it from one of my Italian post and forgot to change the 13 out. Tried to keep consistency with the layouts on all the pre-season topics. Either that or I cant spell Danny Barnes

I noticed someone did a Ulster one so I wont do one now and follow up with Connacht instead later in the week.

Ive edited the original post now to read properly....

No bother Welsh. Just had me confused.

from what i have seen of the young props at munster they are not half bad
archer and hurley
i think a year with bj will do them the world of good.

Is paul mcCarthy not the the munster scrum coach or was he
Thought he was involved with ireland aswell at one stage

Depth-wise, and with BJ out already, I could see Munster struggling a little at the start. But with everyone in the same boat they should be fine. Their youngsters like Barnes and Zebo aren't really youngsters any more, they're the backbone of the Pro12 version of Munster rugby.

I'd agree with them topping the table again, but Leinster will have something to say about that after recruiting well this season as well. I'd say were in for another Leinster/Munster top 2 (the order to be agreed at a later date )

I defnitely see Munster finishing first. I wouldnt totally discount the Ospreys to offer a stern challenge this year either. Leinster I tipped to finish 4th but my reasoning was due to the HC envolvement they will have this year (I'm guessing they will make the Semi's again this season).

Either way though teams will have to be more consistent if they want to push Munster more this year. Should be an interesting season.

This season will be very importent as regards to bringing true younger players like Barnes, Archer, Zebo etc and to a lesser exstent the ones in and around the Ireland team like Murray, Jones.

Wallace out for 6 months

Will take a guy his age some time to get back up to form too. It's a dislocated knee isn't it?? If so it means the muscle degenerates and has to be built back up over time quite slowly.

I know McGahan was looking for a centre although he didn't have a specific one in mind, he may well be looking for a backrow player now

geoff998rugby wrote:Wallace out for 6 months

Awful, poor guy.

Anyone else think Dave O'Callaghan could be a one to watch this year.

geoff998rugby wrote:Wallace out for 6 months

That's awful. I thought it would be a while, but not that long. If we're lucky, we'll see him back for Munster briefly, but to be honest I think he might retire from playing.

I hope he comes back - that is no way to end such a distinquished career

red_stag wrote:Anyone else think Dave O'Callaghan could be a one to watch this year.

I believe so. His ability to play both lock and back row will work in his favour and it seems as though McGahan likes that 'tweener style player on the blindside of the scrum.

I've noticed that the 'tweener (like the term) usually is a 6, instead of a 7 or 8. Why is that?

Quinlan, O'Callaghan, Ryan, McLaughlin, McCarthy... all known as capable second rows or blindsides.

Also apparenty Pete O'Mahony was very good against London Irish which is great to hear.

greybeard wrote:I've noticed that the 'tweener (like the term) usually is a 6, instead of a 7 or 8. Why is that?

Quinlan, O'Callaghan, Ryan, McLaughlin, McCarthy... all known as capable second rows or blindsides.

Not going to lie, I stole it from the NFL but I'm coining it for rugby. You heard it here first.

On why it is a six, I think 7 is normally ruled out straight away due to it being the position in the backrow for the lower slung players who need to have a lower point of gravity. I'm guessing 8 isn't as popular as they want more dynamic players in that position for picking at the base of the scrum. The difference between a lock and blindside's roles are massively different, though maybe more is expected around the field for from the man in the no.6 jersey.

red_stag wrote:Also apparenty Pete O'Mahony was very good against London Irish which is great to hear.

Yeah I read that too. Promising stuff. Hopefully he can get an injury free run this season.

I'm interested to see whether he ends up as a 6, 7 or 8.

Depends on what style of game Munster wish to play and what players come on in each position and who is brought in. I personally hope he plays 8. It gives him freedom to play as a ball carrier and gives him more responsibility.

He's a ball player and that is the type of player I want to see Munster promote.

Munster still have a NIQ spot to fill, they will get someone of real quality in after the WC, (players didn't want to sign before WC in case it affected their selection chances) rumour has it that it will be a top quality center.

it may see the return of Jean de Villiers.

Kingshu wrote:Munster still have a NIQ spot to fill, they will get someone of real quality in after the WC, (players didn't want to sign before WC in case it affected their selection chances) rumour has it that it will be a top quality center.

it may see the return of Jean de Villiers.

Kingshu,

Are you sure about that? Most players are locked up for the upcoming seasons. Very few players still available.

Cory Jane was looking for a job last I heard !

Although a winger is not your priority

Stag,what I've seen of Dave O'Callaghan is very promising. Will probably be on the bench on Saturday as he can play lock and backrow,good utility value.

IMO its either an inside centre or a flanker. I'd be inclined to favour a top quality backrow personally.

A big ball carrier would be fantastic in the pack. Or else a second five eight at centre.

[quote="MBTGOG"][quote="greybeard"]I've noticed that the 'tweener (like the term) usually is a 6, instead of a 7 or 8. Why is that?

Quinlan, O'Callaghan, Ryan, McLaughlin, McCarthy... all known as capable second rows or blindsides.
[/quote]

Not going to lie, I stole it from the NFL but I'm coining it for rugby. You heard it here first.

On why it is a six, I think 7 is normally ruled out straight away due to it being the position in the backrow for the lower slung players who need to have a lower point of gravity. I'm guessing 8 isn't as popular as they want more dynamic players in that position for picking at the base of the scrum. The difference between a lock and blindside's roles are massively different, though maybe more is expected around the field for from the man in the no.6 jersey.

[/quote]

I play lock and 6 (althought my favorite and probaly best position is 8) and the are very interchangeable really both can do a fair bit of ball carrying and lineout work. I think locks are often moved to 6 and visa versa which is a factor as well.

Whats the story here guys

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2011/0901/1224303291873.html

World cup year?
Recession?
OR have they been over achieving with the crowds recently?

I'm not surprised by the drop but the percentage is alarming. I think it's a combination of the recession and Munster no longer being top dogs. Ireland loves a bandwagon.

Also due to the Cork Limerick venue split you don't get to all matches. If you live in Belfast or Dublin or Galway you'll see all games. Its only a handful of games in Cork and Limerick and may be easier but them singlely.

Stag,there's only 5 games in Cork,that's not a huge amount I think around 70% or so are in Limerick. I think you can get a season ticket for Cork and for Limerick though.

It will be interesting to see who will be first choice Hooker. Varley commanded it last season and did very well particularly in open play and ball carrrying but some of his throws tend to go a but awol.
Sherry towards the end of the season really came into his own and I would definitely like to see him get more game time.

D24tress wrote:Whats the story here guys

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2011/0901/1224303291873.html

World cup year?
Recession?
OR have they been over achieving with the crowds recently?

Looks like they've all moved north to Galway

Blue - I'd imagine we will see Varley start as first choice, Flannery take over the #2 shirt then and Sherry retain his place on the bench even with Fla back.

I wouldn't like to see Sherry get "more game time" than last year. 14 Magners League games, 2 Heineken Cup games, 2 Amlin Cup games.

I'd prefer him to play same amount but maybe start more.

Think you took me up wrong there stag. Just said I would like to see him get more game time this year as it may be difficult when Flans get back. Interesting do you think he will jump ahead of Varley when Flans gets back?

Do you see us signing any back rows?

I'd rather we forgot about signing a centre (of which there are few options) and brought in a top backrow.

RE: Sherry yes I reckon he can be on the bench ahead of Varley when the Fla is back.

I wasn't at the warm-up games, but I read a comment on Munsterfans that Varley was playing very well. Some put down his relatively poor finish to the season as pure exhaustion. He played a lot of rugby last year.

Otherwise - interview here with Ian Keatley. Seems like a nice lad - quietly ambitious. They are doing their nut over on munsterfans about his comments on the two centre training and that he only gets to train with ROG twice a week maybe.

http://talkingrugbyunion.co.uk/pro12/ian-keatley-interview

Wow thats interesting about the seperate training camps, I didn't realise that was the case. Which players are in Limerick and which are in Cork?

Do they train seperately and just meet up a couple of times a week then?

roddersm wrote:Wow thats interesting about the seperate training camps, I didn't realise that was the case. Which players are in Limerick and which are in Cork?

Do they train seperately and just meet up a couple of times a week then?

Basically yes thats the setup. Rather than fight the Cork v Limerick thing they embrace it and it creates a healthy internal rivalry.

Wallace, Hayes, Horan, Flannery, Ryan, Murray, O'Connell, Earls, Keatley, Jones use Limerick.

O'Callaghan, O'Gara, O'Leary, Stringer, Zebo, Howlett all use Cork.

Basically if you live in Clare, Limerick or Tipperary its University of Limerick training camp. If your Kerry, Cork, Waterford its Cork you train in.

Thats interesting stag, surely thats not a great set up to develop team cohesion on or off the pitch?

No wonder Munster are having trouble developing a 15 man game..their backs are in Cork and their forwards are in Limerick!

They've done it for years. From 2006-2008 we were all suggesting it was a reason for their success.

red_stag wrote:They've done it for years. From 2006-2008 we were all suggesting it was a reason for their success.

Thats because no one from Cork other than O'Gara got near the ball....

They actually reduced the training centres to two, at one stage there were four training centres - Cork, Limerick, the Claws garage in Killaloe & Galwey's in Kilkenny.

That is one of the reason why Kidney is lauded as a coach - getting them all to play together//1

According to Axel in his memoir, the Claw or Galwey weren't too keen on coming to training so Kidney facilitated them as well.

roddersm wrote:Thats interesting stag, surely thats not a great set up to develop team cohesion on or off the pitch?

No wonder Munster are having trouble developing a 15 man game..their backs are in Cork and their forwards are in Limerick!

Munster would never have worked if they didn't do something like that. They would have lost support if they centred it in one or the other. I suppose the logical place would have been Cork (bigger population), but there is more rugby in Limerick.

The foreign players are assigned where they live as well - Botha & Wian are in Limerick. It looks like most the backs will be migrating to Limerick now - Jones, Earls, Keatley & Murray will all be in Limerick (along with JJ Hanrahan who will probably be our next No. 12).

I like it sin. I think it's time Ulster sent Ferris, Afoa, Pienaar, Payne, Trimble, Muller, Spence, Marshall (Luke) and Humpreys up to Derry. The rest can stay in Belfast....

And our forwards in Cork - Nagle, O'Mahony, Archer etc.