Ireland 22 - 26 France Post Match Discussion

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BBC I PLAYER LINK
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b013sd7v/Rugby_Union_2011_2012_Ireland_v_France/

Ireland's worrying World Cup build-up continued as they were again beaten by France in Saturday's clash in Dublin.

Cian Healy's try helped the Irish lead 8-0 but French hit back with 16 unanswered points before the break including a Cedric Heymans try.

A wild Tomas O'Leary pass gifted a second French try to Francois Trinh-Duc after the break.

Jonathan Sexton and Sean O'Brien scored late tries but injuries to Healy and Felix Jones compounded Irish concerns.

Healy hobbled off after half-time while Jones' hopes of being in the 30-man World Cup squad to be announced on Monday could be in tatters after he was stretchered off with a suspected ankle injury.

With Brian O'Driscoll and Gordon D'Arcy both starting after missing the recent defeats by Wales and the French, the Irish made a lively start and the early pressure yielded a sixth-minute penalty for Sexton.

As the Irish backs exhibited quick hands, a bulldozing run from O'Brien increased the pressure on the French in the eighth minute and the move concluded with Healy barging his way over the opposition line.

France's early difficulties included losing injured fly-half David Skrela who was replaced by Trinh-Duc.

However after being on the backfoot for the opening 15 minutes, France suddenly began a fightback.

Irish scrum-half Tomas O'Leary is the son of former Cork hurling star Seanie O'Leary
Alexis Palisson's run needed a crucial tackle by young Irish full-back Jones with a lean-looking Paul O'Connell doing the mopping up on the ground.

Parra's penalty got the French on the scoreboard in the 24th minute after Keith Earls had been caught in possession.

A dreadful clearance by O'Leary was then punished by Trinh-Duc's thumping drop goal from 48 metres in the 28 minutes as the momentum swung France's way.

O'Driscoll appeared to be at fault for Heyman's try on the half hour as the Irish captain allowed Aurelien Rougerie to step inside him in midfield.

Parra converted the try and with the Irish rapidly losing their way, another penalty from the scrum-half increased the French lead to 16-8 by half-time.

As France continued to produce all the pressure after the break, Parra added another penalty in the 44th minute to leave 11 points between the teams.

O'Leary's nervy display culminated with his wild pass, after a botched scrum move, being intercepted by Trinh-Duc who ran in a simple try from the edge of the Irish 22.

Eoin Reddan was introduced moments later but Parra's conversion had extended the French lead to an apparently out-of-sight 18 points.

Possibly of even greater concern to Declan Kidney was the sight of prop Healy hobbling off after the score and young full-back Jones' World Cup dreams may be over after he was stretchered off with a suspected ankle injury.

With the French appearing to ease up in the closing stages, Sexton and O'Brien were able to barge over for late tries but the scores didn't mask Irish struggles.

Stephen Ferris was introduced for his first action since January after injury while Luke Fitzgerald produced a late cameo but there were few positives for the home side as Ireland's misfiring build-up to the World Cup continued.

The scorers:

For Ireland:
Tries: Healy, Sexton, O'Brien
Pen: Sexton

For France:
Tries: Heymans, Trinh-Duc
Con: Parra 2
Pen: Parra 3
Drop: Trinh-Duc

Ireland: 15 Felix Jones, 14 Andrew Trimble, 13 Brian O'Driscoll (c), 12 Gordon D'Arcy, 11 Keith Earls, 10 Jonathan Sexton, 9 Tomas O'Leary, 8 Jamie Heaslip, 7 Shane Jennings, 6 Sean O'Brien, 5 Paul O'Connell, 4 Donncha O'Callaghan, 3 Mike Ross, 2 Rory Best, 1 Cian Healy.
Replacements: 16 Jerry Flannery, 17 Tom Court, 18 Mike McCarthy, 19 Stephen Ferris, 20 Eoin Reddan, 21 Ronan O'Gara, 22 Luke Fitzgerald.

France: 15 Cedric Heymans, 14 Maxime Médard, 13 Aurélien Rougerie, 12 Fabrice Estebanez, 11 Alexis Palisson, 10 David Skrela, 9 Morgan Parra, 8 Louise Picamoles, 7 Julien Bonnaire, 6 Fulgence Ouedraogo, 5 Lionel Nallet, 4 Pascale Papé, Nicolas Mas, 2 Dimitri Szarzewski, 1 Jean-Baptiste Poux.
Replacements: 16 Guilhem Guirado , 17 Fabien Barcella , 18 Julien Pierre, 19 Thierry Dusautoir, 20 Dimitri Yachvili, 21 David Marty, 22 Vincent Clerc, 23 Luc Ducalcon.

Referee: Craig Joubert (South Africa)
Assistant referees: Nigel Owens (Wales), Tim Hayes (Wales)
Television match official: Iain Ramage (Scotland)

I don't feel too bad about this defeat.We definitely played the game differently than if it had been a 6 Nations or WC match,we took a quick tap instead of an easy 3 points in the first half and made some risky runs from deep inside our own half.

O'Leary and Earls were very poor but I'd be more inclined to give Earls another go,everyone can have one bad game.Our midfield was anonymous and the backrow drifted in and out of the game.Healy,O'Connell and Trimble have been our stand out players in the warm ups imo.On the plus side the scrum and lineout were much improved,hopefully next week that will continue but it's hard to know as will Kidney start Ross 3 games in a row and will he risk Healy?

I hope we're holding something back so as to surprise the Aussies come the WC because our backline play at the minute is not going to cut it.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:
I hope we're holding something back so as to surprise the Aussies come the WC because our backline play at the minute is not going to cut it.

I hope you're not right there, asoreleftshoulder. I do think they'll lift in September though and these warm-up games will be seen for what they are. You don't need any more injuries though!

I honestly feel that TOL will go but i hope he warms the bench and is only called on when absolutely necessary, he cant be the starting 9.
I am still struggeling to see why D'Arcy is in the side either, its been a long time since i have seen him have a good game for Ireland.

I thought that both Heaslip and SOB had decent matches, even if SOB's defence wasnt up to much, he is a good attacking option.

Sexton had a reasonable good game and looked a lot better when ROG came on. It was a rather interesting decision but i thought they complimented eachother.

At least they sort of finished strongly and scored more tries than France.

Australia will have to keep their guard up for at least 83 mins and be at their ruthless best. Try to dominate up front, then capitalise with points at every opportunity. I think both teams have the potential to rattle the other and also muck things up and play disappointingly.

eirebilly wrote:

Sexton had a reasonable good game and looked a lot better when ROG came on. It was a rather interesting decision but i thought they complimented eachother.

Yeah it was nice to see Kidney try something new and he views it as a genuine option in a big match then it gives him a lot more wiggle room with his choice and deployment of substitutes.I would question why it's only being tried out now but at least it shows they are considering all the options.

Yeah mate, it bodes well if Declan is willing to make changes like that. I can see him doing it again soon as well....... Maybe next weekend

Apparently Jones is out of the RWC (reported on the radio) with ligament damage.

Feel for the lad but he needs to focus now on getting fit and firing for his province. He will have other chances

First post on the new 606, let's see how this goes.

Earls and O'Leary have both played their way out of the team this series. O'Leary proves time and time again how he isn't capable of being a top level scrumhalf, Murray should have got game time yesterday to show if he can hold his own against a world class team, but instead he was warming the bench at the Sportsground, very bad decision by Kidney.

Having been at the match and then watching it on TV afterwards, I have to say that the cameras didn't do justice to just how poor Earls was. I'm convinced that he missed the training session where they taught passing as a child. He threw a pass straight over McFadden's head in a previous match, and yesterday he threw two more unenforced bad balls to nobody in particular. Other than that he was butchering overlaps, giving away penalties, knocking on... Had Paddy Wallace played like Earls did yesterday people would be demanding him hung, drawn and quartered. Terrible.

On the bright side there were a few good individual performances. Heaslip was excellent at the breakdown, O'Connell was everywhere, O'Brien carried well, Ferris tackled well and didn't get injured, Trimble ran hard and Fitzgerald did well during his cameo. If we can maintain the intensity from the first 20 minutes then we can cause problems in the World Cup.

Shane Jennings was also pretty anonomous so the backrow tends to pick itself with SOB, Heaslip and Wallace - Lots of potential but strangely each of those players can go missing in matches. Most on here knew that TOL had not had a good game at this level for a humber of years and he had a poor game all round yesterday. Lots of huff and puff in midfield and not much more. Earls, poor game and Fitzgerald did more in 5 minutes that Earls did all game - Front 5 looked very good and Flannery gives more urgency to the side. Still a handful for anyone but there is work to be done.

Welcome aboard JmD. Great first post there.

There has been so much post match discussion on all facets of the game but I like your last paragraph... you've got to keep the chin up and look forward to the next opponent.

As an Aussie, I know that Ireland are a very dangerous outfit who are quite capable of turning things around in the blink of an eye.

RubyGuby wrote:Shane Jennings was also pretty anonomous so the backrow tends to pick itself with SOB, Heaslip and Wallace - Lots of potential but strangely each of those players can go missing in matches. Most on here knew that TOL had not had a good game at this level for a humber of years and he had a poor game all round yesterday. Lots of huff and puff in midfield and not much more. Earls, poor game and Fitzgerald did more in 5 minutes that Earls did all game - Front 5 looked very good and Flannery gives more urgency to the side. Still a handful for anyone but there is work to be done.

I think we if we have a fit and firing Stephen Ferris, he is indispensable. Does absence make the heart grow fonder? Yes, and Ferris has had poor games himself. But he's just a wrecking ball. Not much better out there in the way of blindsides, even now.

Yep. SOB may well miss out imo if Ferris gets his fitness back. he will be competing with Wallace for the 7 shirt imo. Defensively we cannot do without Ferris. Only irish player to dominate in the tackle area yesterday. Indispensible is the right word

JmD wrote:Having been at the match and then watching it on TV afterwards, I have to say that the cameras didn't do justice to just how poor Earls was. I'm convinced that he missed the training session where they taught passing as a child. He threw a pass straight over McFadden's head in a previous match, and yesterday he threw two more unenforced bad balls to nobody in particular. Other than that he was butchering overlaps, giving away penalties, knocking on... Had Paddy Wallace played like Earls did yesterday people would be demanding him hung, drawn and quartered. Terrible.

Welcome JmD.

Great point - I was also at the game as well and agree 100% about Earls. For a guy who can supposedly play centre his passing was awful both poorly timed and inaccurate. I don't know if he wears studs in his boots or not but he seemed to slip a few times in nigh on perfect conditions. His mix-up with Sexton under the high ball was terrible as it was never his, and did someone tell him chasing is optional?
Still I expect him to play 15 against England now that Jones is doubtful and he did have a good game there in the 6N.

The Great Aukster wrote:

JmD wrote:Having been at the match and then watching it on TV afterwards, I have to say that the cameras didn't do justice to just how poor Earls was. I'm convinced that he missed the training session where they taught passing as a child. He threw a pass straight over McFadden's head in a previous match, and yesterday he threw two more unenforced bad balls to nobody in particular. Other than that he was butchering overlaps, giving away penalties, knocking on... Had Paddy Wallace played like Earls did yesterday people would be demanding him hung, drawn and quartered. Terrible.

Welcome JmD.

Great point - I was also at the game as well and agree 100% about Earls. For a guy who can supposedly play centre his passing was awful both poorly timed and inaccurate. I don't know if he wears studs in his boots or not but he seemed to slip a few times in nigh on perfect conditions. His mix-up with Sexton under the high ball was terrible as it was never his, and did someone tell him chasing is optional?
Still I expect him to play 15 against England now that Jones is doubtful and he did have a good game there in the 6N.

People have to keep a bit of perspective, Irish fans seem to always go to one extreme or another. Earls was poor yesterday but some of the criticism is over the top. The worse pass that happened yesterday was from fitz, but luckily we managed to retain possession and he made the break which ended up with sextons try. Earls made some appalling plays at some stages yesterday so criticise him for them but don't add stuff he didn't do to the list of mistakes.

Val

I know which one you are referring to but i thought Earls pass was worse and for me he would have been a shoo in for the first XV. He will get and deserves another chance though.

Standulstermen wrote:Val

I know which one you are referring to but i thought Earls pass was worse and for me he would have been a shoo in for the first XV. He will get and deserves another chance though.

Earls' pass was poor but fitz's just went straight to ground, I thought he also nearly butchered that try by going for the line himself instead of passing it to rog on his shoulder but fortunately(miraculously) rog managed to clean out the french tacklers to get clean ball. I just think that we as a country tend to go over the top in our criticism and praise of our players and team. Realistically we are about 6th best in the world and we don't have any players who would be considered the best in their positions in the world except maybe poc, heaslip and ferris when they are their absolute best and others in their position aren't. Our other players are either young and have a lot to learn or not that good. For the players who have talent such as fitz, earls and trimble, it does them no good if they are constantly run down when they make mistakes. I really believe that trimble poor form earlier in his career was exaggerated and I think that fitz's form hasn't been helped with all the pressure being put on him by fans and the media. Earls has said in the past that he suffers from nerves and lack of confidence, the last thing our players need is for the media to do what the english media do with their football team by building them up just so they can knock him down when they fail.

Earls pass went a metre over his target! Earls was lions-esque yesterday. Thats just how i saw it. He can come back from it. His form since the 6N was diamond and was the best of any Irish back. He is a confidence player so i hope somebody helps him rediscover or retain his belief this week. A good outing and he will be dynamite again. yesterday nothing seemed to go right for him though. it happens.

Standulstermen wrote:Earls pass went a metre over his target! Earls was lions-esque yesterday. Thats just how i saw it. He can come back from it. His form since the 6N was diamond and was the best of any Irish back. He is a confidence player so i hope somebody helps him rediscover or retain his belief this week. A good outing and he will be dynamite again. yesterday nothing seemed to go right for him though. it happens.

I thought the criticism of him during the lions was over the top as well, but then again I didn't think he should have been on the tour in the first place. I really think that the media is absolutely ridiculous in their criticsim of players, listening to newstalk and todayfm recently and they really don't seem to have a clue about rugby, they just spout the same things over and over and because they have said it so often it has become fact in the media's mind. Looking at the new zealand south africa game on saturday and despite south africa limitations their centre partnership just oozed class. Ireland really need to try something new there because we looked clueless in attack, even though a lot of that is probably down to gaffney. I have full confidence that between trimble, earls, fitz and bowe we will be grand on the wings during the world cup, but unless gaffney gets is act together we are screwed creatively.

Would you guys consider Bowe in the centre as you are pretty strong out wide - He has played sublimely there for the O's and has the intelligence to read the game around him.

I dont listen to what most of the pundits come off with. I just feel he had his worst game for Ireland yesterday. I dont think that has to continue. It doesnt mean his next one wont turn out to be his best (i hope it does). He is a good player who had a poor game. He is still in the first 22 for my money

RubyGuby wrote:Would you guys consider Bowe in the centre as you are pretty strong out wide - He has played sublimely there for the O's and has the intelligence to read the game around him.

This should have been tried long ago but we have no tried and tested options at 13 beyond BOD. Its too late at this point i feel

Never too late with such a class player - Bowe is such a natural footballer and his support play, distribution and off load in the tackle are all superb. With him and BOD in midfield I believe gaps would appear and they are both deadly strike runners. C'mon Dec one more spin of the dice next week.

Val - This is Test rugby. These aren't just rookies dropped in at the deep end out of school. They are competing against other seasoned pros to represent their country and need to attain a certain level of competence to justify selection.

Earls looked to be trying really hard to impress, maybe he had been given an ultimatum but whatever the reason he was poor. I'm not sure what you mean by adding "stuff he didn't do" but in truth he didn't do what he should have been doing.

What concerns me about Earls and Fitzgerald is their decision making capabilities. Neither seem to really appreciate the game situation in front of them.

RubyGuby wrote:Would you guys consider Bowe in the centre as you are pretty strong out wide - He has played sublimely there for the O's and has the intelligence to read the game around him.

I thought he was quite poor there for the ospreys this year when he had to fill in at 13, his positioning is not good enough but it would probably improve alongside bod.

Stand; I agree it was his worse game for Ireland and his worst since the lions. The thing about the pundits is that it would be nice to listen to rugby coverage with people who actually watched all the provinces in action and could form a proper opinion on players instead of making up their minds and sticking to it despite all the evidence pointing to the contrary.

The Great Aukster wrote:Val - This is Test rugby. These aren't just rookies dropped in at the deep end out of school. They are competing against other seasoned pros to represent their country and need to attain a certain level of competence to justify selection.

Earls looked to be trying really hard to impress, maybe he had been given an ultimatum but whatever the reason he was poor. I'm not sure what you mean by adding "stuff he didn't do" but in truth he didn't do what he should have been doing.

What concerns me about Earls and Fitzgerald is their decision making capabilities. Neither seem to really appreciate the game situation in front of them.

Yes but both of them have shown in the past that they are capable of playing rugby at the highest level, earls has had one poor game and fitz has had a below average season but hasn't had any real howlers yet I have seen people calling for them not to play international rugby again and people saying that they are terrible players (not here), which is plainly ridiculous and completely over the top. Fitz makes mistakes when he has too much time and seems to be an instinct player. Earls is obviously a real confidence player and his game can go to Poopie if he makes a few mistakes but he usually makes the right decision. His decision making was good for the most part yesterday but unfortunately he made four or five terrible decisions which, rightly, overshadow the good decisions.

Earls is a class act and just had one of those days, looked to be trying too hard to me - He needs a word in the ear and he needs to get some composure on the field - He shouldn't be playing as if its life or death every time he gets the ball - he has nothing to prove.

RubyGuby wrote:Earls is a class act and just had one of those days, looked to be trying too hard to me - He needs a word in the ear and he needs to get some composure on the field - He shouldn't be playing as if its life or death every time he gets the ball - he has nothing to prove.

Yeah I agree with you, I think that fitz has had that problem for the last year as well. I'm looked for forward to the world cup with a lot of nervous optimism at the moment. I hope kidney has the balls to drop tol because he is the only player I can't see him getting back to his best (i.e.09 form).

Was at the game on Saturday and havent watched any replays or read any papers since so these are just my observations:

Might as well get the negatives out of the way first:

O'Leary - his first 20 minutes were as good as i have seen him play for some time. However after that he was woeful. The guy is a great athlete but is simply not a scrum half, he is lucky Kidney loves him, because he really shouldnt be in with a shot of making the plane given his form.

BOD/Darce - What was Bod doing for the first try, he drifted off his man for absolutely no reason and left a gap that a prop could have jogged through, let alone a French back 3 player. I know it was his first game of the year but he looked very off the pace for me. Likewise Darcy looked poor. He needs to revert to what he is good at, hard direct running and giving us a bit of front foot ball.

Jennings - I am a fan but despite trying hard, and making a lot of tackles, his ball carrying was poor and he did himself few favors in trying to make the plane

Earls - Had a shocking game, Trimble looks ever more likely to be getting the 11 jersey and deservedly so. I think Earls could have been our worst performer on the day, he contributed nothing positive to the performance

General back Play - We actually had a platform off a dominant scrum and clean lineout ball for the first time in a while and we did nothing with it. Very few line breaks and when they happened it was usually in broken play or through O'Brien. I know that the coaches may not want to be showing their hand when the bigger games are to come, but a little bit of invention would have been nice.

So the positives:

Set Piece - Scrum and Lineout both went very well. Ross is probably our most important player at the moment, because god help us if he gets injured. Healy had a super game and court did alright when he came on. Pauly ran the lineout very well too.

Returning players - Flannery, POC, Ferris in particular all did well on their return to action. I thought Heaslip also had a good game and did a lot of good work at the breakdown. SOB Proved he is better at 6 than 7, but if Ferris is fit can you leave him out - the man is a monster - But SOB was the best player all year for Leinster. A tough call to make as can you Leave Wally or Heaslip out either? A great Dilema to have tho!

I though Rog and Sexton both played well, and Fitz had his best performance for quite a while.