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England vs Ireland - ODI

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robbo277
JDizzle
trebellbobaggins
GG
m@tt
Mike Selig
CorkGeordie
Dorothy_Mantooth
alfie
guildfordbat
Carrotdude
hodge
Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler
eirebilly
ShankyCricket
Liam_Main
Hoggy_Bear
Fists of Fury
Gregers
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England vs Ireland - ODI Empty England vs Ireland - ODI

Post by Gregers Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:55 am

Thought I'd start a discussion thread for this. With many things to debate we should start early!

Firstly the England side:

Eoin Morgan (c)
Chris Woakes
Jonathan Trott
James Taylor
Ben Stokes
Samit Patel
Graeme Onions
Steven Finn
Scott Borthwick
Ravi Bopara
Jade Dernbach
Jonny Bairstow (wk)
Craig Kieswetter (wk)

Ireland Squad:

A Cusack
G Dockrell
D Johnston
N Jones
E Joyce
J Mooney
K O'Brien
N O'Brien (wk)
W Porterfield (c)
W Rankin
P Stirling
A van der Merwe
A White
G Wilson


Last edited by Gregers on Thu Aug 25, 2011 9:32 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Fists of Fury Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:58 am

My side would be:

Trott
Kieswetter (wk)
Taylor
Bopara
Morgan
Stokes
Patel
Woakes
Dernbach
Finn
Onions

So many 'bits and pieces' bowling options there, which could be nice to have if we were struggling for a wicket.

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Post by Hoggy_Bear Tue Aug 23, 2011 11:00 am

Decent side Fists, but perhaps could use another spin option?
Borthwick for one of the seamers?

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Post by Gregers Tue Aug 23, 2011 11:03 am

I dont agree with Morgan being captain tbh, I think it could hurt him more than help him

My team:

1) Kieswetter (wk)
2) Taylor
3) Trott
4) Morgan (c)
5) Bairstow
6) Stokes
7) Patel
8) Woakes
9) Dernbach
10) Finn
11) Borthwick

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Post by Fists of Fury Tue Aug 23, 2011 11:03 am

If it looks like a bit of a 'bunsen burner' then I would replace Finn with Borthwick, in all likelihood.

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Post by Guest Tue Aug 23, 2011 11:23 am

1)Jonathon trott
2)Craig Kieswetter (WK)
3)Ravi Bopara
4)James Taylor
5)Eoin Morgan (C)
6)Ben Stokes
7)Samit Patel
8)Scott Borthwick
9)Graham Onions
10)Jade Dernbach
11)Steven Finn

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Post by Fists of Fury Tue Aug 23, 2011 11:34 am

No Woakes? I find that a strange omission, cricketfan, given his recent form and his all-round capabilities.

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Post by Liam_Main Tue Aug 23, 2011 11:39 am

Woakes is poor in the shorter format much more suited to Test Cricket, agree with CF's side.
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Post by ShankyCricket Tue Aug 23, 2011 12:10 pm

Liam
i agree except for bairstow instead of bopara.

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Post by eirebilly Tue Aug 23, 2011 12:57 pm

Come on Ireland. Sorry lads but when Ireland is playing i have to support them Wink
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Post by Liam_Main Tue Aug 23, 2011 12:59 pm

There will be no repeat of what happened last time Eire! Wink
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Post by eirebilly Tue Aug 23, 2011 1:02 pm

Hhhmmmm, you never know Liam Very Happy
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Post by Liam_Main Tue Aug 23, 2011 1:04 pm

Quite inexperienced line-up from us so anything could happen.
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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Tue Aug 23, 2011 1:43 pm

Fists of Fury wrote:My side would be:

Trott
Kieswetter (wk)
Taylor
Bopara
Morgan
Stokes
Patel
Woakes
Dernbach
Finn
Onions

So many 'bits and pieces' bowling options there, which could be nice to have if we were struggling for a wicket.

Some actual batting would be nice though surely? Theres a limit to how much fill in bowling a side needs.




Why is is it that a guy like Chris Woakes who has a fantastic first class and reasonably good List A record always ends up in the ODI squad before the test squad?
How about picking players for the formats they are best suited to
Maybe someone shoudl ask him that

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Post by Fists of Fury Tue Aug 23, 2011 2:04 pm

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:
Fists of Fury wrote:My side would be:

Trott
Kieswetter (wk)
Taylor
Bopara
Morgan
Stokes
Patel
Woakes
Dernbach
Finn
Onions

So many 'bits and pieces' bowling options there, which could be nice to have if we were struggling for a wicket.

Some actual batting would be nice though surely? Theres a limit to how much fill in bowling a side needs.




Why is is it that a guy like Chris Woakes who has a fantastic first class and reasonably good List A record always ends up in the ODI squad before the test squad?
How about picking players for the formats they are best suited to



I have picked the strongest batsmen, in my view, Pete, and only mentioned the bits and pieces bowling as a secondary. Guys like Stokes and Bopara are predominantly there for the batting.

Very good question with regard to picking people in their most suited formats. It must be to see if they have what is required at the top level - though as we all know, what is required in an ODI and what is required in a Test are two vastly different things.


Last edited by Fists of Fury on Tue Aug 23, 2011 3:38 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Tue Aug 23, 2011 2:27 pm

Actually FOF I hadnt noticed that there arent exactly many proper batsmen in the sqaud are there.

It makes sense really. England already have more than enough proper batsmen when everyones made available, trheres already an argument about whether or not Bell should be in the team. What they need to be looking for is replacements for the Yardy/Wright role...guys who can offer genuine ODI bowling options and clear the ropes at coming in at 6/7

Id also say theres still a question mark of Kiesweter and an international keeper and batsman, and it never hurts to find yet another frontline seamer.

From that point of view this squad makes sense.


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Post by eirebilly Tue Aug 23, 2011 2:51 pm

Liam_Main wrote:Quite inexperienced line-up from us so anything could happen.

As opposed to the vastly experienced Irish lineup? Wink

Seriously though, i am expecting an England win but you know how us Irish are when it comes to playing England. We always give it that little bit extra Very Happy Leprechaun
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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Tue Aug 23, 2011 3:20 pm

You never know, this is a real experimental side form England. Perhaps making yup for them not having blooded any test players for some time, as well as a recognition that the ODI world cup target wont be acheived without a new generation and that many in the current core squad need a break.

Although it may seem disrespectful to this game and teh Irish team it does make sense from a long term development plan. It shoudl also provide a genuine challeng for both sides and an interesting game. Ireland do tend to raise their game against England, and the young players are vulnerable.

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Post by eirebilly Tue Aug 23, 2011 3:32 pm

I think that it will be a good match if i am going to be honest. Not big scores but a pretty close fought affair :-)
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Post by Liam_Main Tue Aug 23, 2011 3:37 pm

England- 270/6

Ireland- 221/8

See how close I come.
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Post by Fists of Fury Tue Aug 23, 2011 3:39 pm

England 255/8



Ireland 225 all out.

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Post by Gregers Tue Aug 23, 2011 3:40 pm

Ireland to win the toss and bat first (luck of the Irish!)

Ireland - 237/7 (50 Overs)

England 238/5 (47.2 Overs)

This could be a sensational prediction game!

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Tue Aug 23, 2011 3:48 pm

England 243-8
Ireland 212 all out 45 overs

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Post by Guest Tue Aug 23, 2011 3:49 pm

gonna be very intresting


england to win Very Happy

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Post by eirebilly Tue Aug 23, 2011 4:04 pm

If Ireland bat first

Ireland - 248/AO (49 Overs)
England 249/7 (49.2 Overs)

If England bat first

England - 256/8 (50 overs)
Ireland - 228 all out (47 overs)
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Post by hodge Tue Aug 23, 2011 4:31 pm

England bat first:

England 307/7 (50)

Ireland 231 all out (42.3)

Ireland bat first:

Ireland 259/9 (50)

England 262/7 (47)

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Post by Guest Tue Aug 23, 2011 7:23 pm

clearly glen chapple will never get a go...

also i think zafar ansari maybe should have been in the squad

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Post by Liam_Main Tue Aug 23, 2011 7:41 pm

Ansari not experienced enough imo.

Hales should of been in the squad.
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Post by Carrotdude Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:15 pm

I agree on Hales but I'm sure he'll be in the T20 team - I'd quite like Jason Roy to be given a shot at some point too, maybe in the T20's at the end of the summer against the West Indies. No way Ansari is anywhere near as yet.

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Post by guildfordbat Tue Aug 23, 2011 11:31 pm

Carrotdude wrote:I agree on Hales but I'm sure he'll be in the T20 team - I'd quite like Jason Roy to be given a shot at some point too, maybe in the T20's at the end of the summer against the West Indies. No way Ansari is anywhere near as yet.

Glad to see I'm not the only ''RoyBoy'', Carrot. thumbsup

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Post by ShankyCricket Wed Aug 24, 2011 10:19 am

My Team:

Trott
Kieswetter(wk)
Taylor
Morgan
Bopara(last chance saloon)
Stokes
Patel
Borthwick
Finn
Onions
Dernbach

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Post by alfie Wed Aug 24, 2011 10:24 am

Am I the only one who expects Ireland to win?

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Post by ShankyCricket Wed Aug 24, 2011 10:25 am

alfie wrote:Am I the only one who expects Ireland to win?
Yes

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Wed Aug 24, 2011 10:35 am

Thinks they could win no, thinks they are favourites yes

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Post by Fists of Fury Wed Aug 24, 2011 10:37 am

I think it'll be tight, could go either way.

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Post by ShankyCricket Wed Aug 24, 2011 10:43 am

I think if we had played our full strength side then ireland might have had a chance because after beating india 4-0 in a Test series our main players were hardly going to be intense in an one off game against Ireland.They might have got complacent and Ireland would have pounced on it.
But we have selected a bunch of hungry young cricketers who have a point to prove.They will give it their all in order to win a place in the main squad.Thats why I am very confident of them beating Ireland.

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Post by Dorothy_Mantooth Wed Aug 24, 2011 11:16 am

Supporting an Associate nation (Scotland), I can understand the Irish fans frustration and what in many regards is an England Lions squad being sent over to Dublin is a bit of a slap in the face for them. However had England been forced to select their strongest side, when the game was arranged. I don't think they would have taken the game, thus depriving the Irish of another high profile game, plus the cash injection that a good crowd and Sky money will bring. It’s still very a good Test for the Irish and a strong performance will only help in their claims for more regular fixtures.

I think resting the players who played in the Test squad is the right idea. Most of them have just played back to back Tests (Four Tests in Five weeks), so in terms of the bigger picture an extra few days rest is more valuable than anything to be gained playing in this match.

Talking of Associate Cricket, well done Scotland Under 19s for qualifying for the Under 19s World Cup, winning 13 of their 14 games to win the Overall Tournament having been crowned European Champions last year.

Other qualifiers in order of where they finished behind Scotland. Nepal, Ireland, Afghanistan, Papua New Guinea and Namibia.

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Post by CorkGeordie Wed Aug 24, 2011 11:37 am

I think Ireland have a much better chance then many here think. Many of you are underestimating the pitch in Clontarf which is tailor-made to Ireland's medium pacers like Mooney, Cusack and O'Brien.

In the last couple of years in Clontarf, Ireland have come very close to beating both Australia and Pakistan at full-strength.

I'm not saying Ireland are favourites by any means but don't forget what happened the last time the two sides met.....

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Wed Aug 24, 2011 11:44 am

Fists of Fury wrote:I think it'll be tight, could go either way.

Sounds like my ex wife

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Post by Guest Wed Aug 24, 2011 12:01 pm

i relle hope graham onions plays

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Post by alfie Wed Aug 24, 2011 12:24 pm

shankythebiggestengfan wrote:I think if we had played our full strength side then ireland might have had a chance because after beating india 4-0 in a Test series our main players were hardly going to be intense in an one off game against Ireland.They might have got complacent and Ireland would have pounced on it.
But we have selected a bunch of hungry young cricketers who have a point to prove.They will give it their all in order to win a place in the main squad.Thats why I am very confident of them beating Ireland.

That's a good point actually , shanky , about the young players being "hungry" (We're not just talking about Patel ,are we? Smile )

I agree they'll probably have a lot more interest in a good performance here than the regulars. And that may well lead them to victory , but I certainly wouldn't be putting money on it. Desire is one thing , but experience , ability and luck come into ODIs too - and we all know about who is famous for the last of those qualities...

Seriously it could of course go either way. I just think a lot of people are perhaps under-rating Ireland's ability ,especially at home.

Just hope it doesn't rain and spoil the party... guinness

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Post by Mike Selig Wed Aug 24, 2011 1:12 pm

I think it'll be very close. Morgan is the key man, he is the only player in the England side who has experience in Irish conditions (slow, low, plenty of lateral movement probably). Kieswetter in particular won't enjoy the conditions much (now watch as he smashes a century...). Trott will adapt if picked. Taylor looks the goods. Finn and Woakes will come onto the bat nicely, Dernbach will be useful, Bopara could be a handful if he bowls a bit.

Ireland will be well up for this, and have probably a more experienced side (albeit not at this level, but many of the guys have played together for a long time now). On the flip side, Porterfield is out of form, and if someone gets after the bowling it remains 1-paced.

I do feel I have to support my fellow associates so will be barracking for Ireland...

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Post by m@tt Wed Aug 24, 2011 4:11 pm

Can Stokes bowl yet? He hasn't bowled since returning from injury.
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Post by Fists of Fury Wed Aug 24, 2011 4:55 pm

Looking forward to this one tomorrow now. A lot of promising young English lads all looking to make their mark, and it'll be interesting to see who steps up - though obviously no solid judgements can be made on the evidence of a one off game.

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Post by Gregers Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:31 pm

Jos Buttler has shown once again why he should be in this team...

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Post by Liam_Main Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:21 pm

Missed a catch just before, jinxed him
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Post by Gregers Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:33 pm

What a catch!

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Post by Liam_Main Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:35 pm

And I just jinxed myself!
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Post by Liam_Main Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:36 pm

MOTM definitely.
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Post by GG Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:43 pm

Borthwick's list a stats are awful...no idea why he;s in the squad.

My team:

Bopara
Kieswetter (w)
Trott
Taylor
Morgan
Stokes
Patel
Woakes
Dernbach
Onions
Finn

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