England vs Ireland - ODI
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The v2 Forum :: Sport :: Cricket
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England vs Ireland - ODI
First topic message reminder :
Thought I'd start a discussion thread for this. With many things to debate we should start early!
Firstly the England side:
Eoin Morgan (c)
Chris Woakes
Jonathan Trott
James Taylor
Ben Stokes
Samit Patel
Graeme Onions
Steven Finn
Scott Borthwick
Ravi Bopara
Jade Dernbach
Jonny Bairstow (wk)
Craig Kieswetter (wk)
Ireland Squad:
A Cusack
G Dockrell
D Johnston
N Jones
E Joyce
J Mooney
K O'Brien
N O'Brien (wk)
W Porterfield (c)
W Rankin
P Stirling
A van der Merwe
A White
G Wilson
Thought I'd start a discussion thread for this. With many things to debate we should start early!
Firstly the England side:
Eoin Morgan (c)
Chris Woakes
Jonathan Trott
James Taylor
Ben Stokes
Samit Patel
Graeme Onions
Steven Finn
Scott Borthwick
Ravi Bopara
Jade Dernbach
Jonny Bairstow (wk)
Craig Kieswetter (wk)
Ireland Squad:
A Cusack
G Dockrell
D Johnston
N Jones
E Joyce
J Mooney
K O'Brien
N O'Brien (wk)
W Porterfield (c)
W Rankin
P Stirling
A van der Merwe
A White
G Wilson
Last edited by Gregers on Thu 25 Aug 2011, 9:32 am; edited 1 time in total
Re: England vs Ireland - ODI
Seing now that Buttler doesn't really have second season syndrome in terms of his one day batting i think he would make a better choice for a 6/7 for England, paces his innings very well and can hit the ball a long way and innovative with his shots
hodge- Posts : 2960
Join date : 2011-01-25
Location : Somerset/Preston (Uni)
Re: England vs Ireland - ODI
yeah Trott is a great test player but he just kills us in this form when the rest of the team try to rush it and screw up like this.
ireland have laughed at this second rate performance. they're a league above out there. worrying signs for englands lack of depth in this form.
ireland have laughed at this second rate performance. they're a league above out there. worrying signs for englands lack of depth in this form.
trebellbobaggins- Posts : 4943
Join date : 2011-06-03
Re: England vs Ireland - ODI
I've noticed that Trott has only hit one boundary since the 19th over!
Anyone that defends his record is truly clueless.
Anyone that defends his record is truly clueless.
simsini- Posts : 63
Join date : 2011-07-28
Re: England vs Ireland - ODI
i think it's time your side took our place as a major side Billy.
Sure you'd have shown us how it's done against India looking at this shambles
Sure you'd have shown us how it's done against India looking at this shambles
trebellbobaggins- Posts : 4943
Join date : 2011-06-03
Re: England vs Ireland - ODI
Liam_Main wrote:So far Englands youngsters are having a bad day. Taylor and Stokes both failing to get into double figures.
But its a disgrace that these guys didnt go to the woerld cup, I readt that on the internets.
Just liek When Samit Patel was going to save the iuniverse and England were idiots for not taking him to Australia.
Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler- Posts : 10344
Join date : 2011-06-02
Location : Englandshire
Re: England vs Ireland - ODI
hodge wrote:Seing now that Buttler doesn't really have second season syndrome in terms of his one day batting i think he would make a better choice for a 6/7 for England, paces his innings very well and can hit the ball a long way and innovative with his shots
Another player who is better than Buttler at doing exactly what you have described is Jason Roy.
simsini- Posts : 63
Join date : 2011-07-28
Re: England vs Ireland - ODI
simsini wrote:I've noticed that Trott has only hit one boundary since the 19th over!
Anyone that defends his record is truly clueless.
That will be me then
Dorothy_Mantooth- Posts : 1197
Join date : 2011-04-13
Re: England vs Ireland - ODI
I dont dare to comment
eirebilly- Posts : 24807
Join date : 2011-02-09
Age : 53
Location : Milan
Re: England vs Ireland - ODI
Trott isn't a One-Day player he bats to slow it's a fact. In situations like this he costs us.
Re: England vs Ireland - ODI
Hallelujah, Trott is finally out. Unfortunately it's about 35 overs too late!
simsini- Posts : 63
Join date : 2011-07-28
Re: England vs Ireland - ODI
While yes Trott has made runs, again its far too slow. Bell or Pieterson to number 3. We can't compete with the big teams at Trott's scoring rate taking up that many balls.
GSC- Posts : 43487
Join date : 2011-03-28
Age : 32
Location : Leicester
Re: England vs Ireland - ODI
Today's innings was poor, but his record is good. An average of over 50 is class and his strike rate of over 75 isn't terrible.
The one criticism I have of him is he plays out too many dot balls. He really needs to get better at rotating the strike so when he isn't scoring boundaries he doesn't get bogged down.
Possibly it was his shoulder giving him a bit of aggro, but he never looked fully comfortable on this pitch. Deserves to keep his place in the side for now, but he isn't undroppable.
I would give Trott 2 or 3 of the ODIs against India, then rotate him out (no matter how well or otherwise he does) to give Bell a shot at 3 and an out-and-out hitter a go down the order for a game or two, then we can reassess the balance of the side going into the winter.
The one criticism I have of him is he plays out too many dot balls. He really needs to get better at rotating the strike so when he isn't scoring boundaries he doesn't get bogged down.
Possibly it was his shoulder giving him a bit of aggro, but he never looked fully comfortable on this pitch. Deserves to keep his place in the side for now, but he isn't undroppable.
I would give Trott 2 or 3 of the ODIs against India, then rotate him out (no matter how well or otherwise he does) to give Bell a shot at 3 and an out-and-out hitter a go down the order for a game or two, then we can reassess the balance of the side going into the winter.
Re: England vs Ireland - ODI
so 42 overs.. score should have been what 210 to be competitive, given that it's been tricky out there.
definite failure from the youngsters to bat well sadly.
i do recall ireland all out when chasing 170+ in 50 a year or two back but england had first choice bowlers that day. Not sure these kids can do that. Ireland must be huge favourites.
definite failure from the youngsters to bat well sadly.
i do recall ireland all out when chasing 170+ in 50 a year or two back but england had first choice bowlers that day. Not sure these kids can do that. Ireland must be huge favourites.
trebellbobaggins- Posts : 4943
Join date : 2011-06-03
Re: England vs Ireland - ODI
arghh, if we had anderson, bresnan and broad today we'd give these boys a right going over on this surface.
sadly it isn't to be.
sadly it isn't to be.
trebellbobaggins- Posts : 4943
Join date : 2011-06-03
Re: England vs Ireland - ODI
Well, England manage to crawl over 200 with some good clean hitting from Woakes and Borthwick, but does that show just how easy it is to hit runs on this pitch?
Our batsman have let our bowlers down, we'll have to go well from here to win this game.
Our batsman have let our bowlers down, we'll have to go well from here to win this game.
Re: England vs Ireland - ODI
201 isn't disastrous but not brilliant either. Had we had a better start and Trott batted quicker we could of got 250.
Re: England vs Ireland - ODI
without Trott we could have had a serious collapse on our hands and finished 160 odd all out
hodge- Posts : 2960
Join date : 2011-01-25
Location : Somerset/Preston (Uni)
Re: England vs Ireland - ODI
Great preformance in the field yet again from Ireland. Batting is definitely our weaker suit however and if one of the top 3 or Niall O'Brien doesn't make a big score I think we coukd struggle.
CorkGeordie- Posts : 20
Join date : 2011-05-03
Re: England vs Ireland - ODI
Chaseable
eirebilly- Posts : 24807
Join date : 2011-02-09
Age : 53
Location : Milan
Re: England vs Ireland - ODI
I also think it would be nice to see England Lions play Ireland in a couple of first class games. Maybe 1 in Ireland and 1 in England. Bit late now, but I think it would be an interesting mini-series over a test match summer.
Re: England vs Ireland - ODI
Woakes and Borthwick didnt disgrace themselves at the end there, did their jobs.
Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler- Posts : 10344
Join date : 2011-06-02
Location : Englandshire
Re: England vs Ireland - ODI
ireland done really well, we are gonna have to bowl to well to win this
Guest- Guest
Re: England vs Ireland - ODI
I don't get why people are knocking Trott, his innings is better than throwing his wicket away and being 150 all out.
Re: England vs Ireland - ODI
Its just a pity noone told Keisswetter and Taylor to throw theirs away more quickly.
Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler- Posts : 10344
Join date : 2011-06-02
Location : Englandshire
Re: England vs Ireland - ODI
hodge wrote:without Trott we could have had a serious collapse on our hands and finished 160 odd all out
You could equally argue that without Trott, we could have rotated the strike better and hit more boundaries, which would not put as much pressure on the younger players later on, resulting in a bigger total.
It isimpossible to predict the score without Trott, as all of the new batsmen would have been batting in different circumstances.
simsini- Posts : 63
Join date : 2011-07-28
Re: England vs Ireland - ODI
Fists of Fury wrote:I don't get why people are knocking Trott, his innings is better than throwing his wicket away and being 150 all out.
Trott was putting pressure on the other batter to score quick runs resulting in them throwing their wicket away. If he has of batted quicker, less pressure would of been on the other batter resulting in England getting a high-score. 50 dot balls by Trott when he should of been rotating the strike.
Re: England vs Ireland - ODI
ireland, have a decent squad, now we will have to bowl extremely well
Guest- Guest
Re: England vs Ireland - ODI
Liam_Main wrote:Fists of Fury wrote:I don't get why people are knocking Trott, his innings is better than throwing his wicket away and being 150 all out.
Trott was putting pressure on the other batter to score quick runs resulting in them throwing their wicket away. If he has of batted quicker, less pressure would of been on the other batter resulting in England getting a high-score. 50 dot balls by Trott when he should of been rotating the strike.
Right so if hed got out quicker England wouldnt have a smany runs, and teh other players wouldnt have bene under pressure to score so quickly so would have scored mroe slowly.
Thats one way of looking at it.
The reality is we are just wguessingw hat is or isnt possible on this pitch. But looking at the bowling its niot easy to score well. Aside form the risky 6 from stirling Ireland are struggling to score.
Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler- Posts : 10344
Join date : 2011-06-02
Location : Englandshire
Re: England vs Ireland - ODI
Thats why Trotts in the England side and not Joyce.
Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler- Posts : 10344
Join date : 2011-06-02
Location : Englandshire
Re: England vs Ireland - ODI
eirebilly wrote:Chaseable
How many overs Billy?
win inside 40?
trebellbobaggins- Posts : 4943
Join date : 2011-06-03
Re: England vs Ireland - ODI
Saw this on the bbc feed:
"England haven't exactly endeared themselves to Cricket Ireland for this game. As well as not bringing their first-choice side, they had also insisted on an early start to produce an early finish - they want to be away by 1800 BST as they've got a flight to catch at 2000. Two of their players [Taylor and Kieswetter] are involved in Twenty20 finals day on Saturday.""
well surely if they want the bigger matches they will accept this? This has been squeezed into a stacked schedule to help them.
"England haven't exactly endeared themselves to Cricket Ireland for this game. As well as not bringing their first-choice side, they had also insisted on an early start to produce an early finish - they want to be away by 1800 BST as they've got a flight to catch at 2000. Two of their players [Taylor and Kieswetter] are involved in Twenty20 finals day on Saturday.""
well surely if they want the bigger matches they will accept this? This has been squeezed into a stacked schedule to help them.
trebellbobaggins- Posts : 4943
Join date : 2011-06-03
Re: England vs Ireland - ODI
Due to start at 5, but covers going back on.
Ireland seem to be needing over a hundred more in not too many overs so are probably be saved a cruel defeat there if it just rains through now.
Unless they can produce a run like they did in the WC of course but this isn't a flat track,
Ireland seem to be needing over a hundred more in not too many overs so are probably be saved a cruel defeat there if it just rains through now.
Unless they can produce a run like they did in the WC of course but this isn't a flat track,
trebellbobaggins- Posts : 4943
Join date : 2011-06-03
Re: England vs Ireland - ODI
they're saing 5:20 start. 23 overs, 129 target.
So 87 in ten with stacks of batsmen left.
Could be fireworks if that Kevin chap gets going again.
So 87 in ten with stacks of batsmen left.
Could be fireworks if that Kevin chap gets going again.
trebellbobaggins- Posts : 4943
Join date : 2011-06-03
Re: England vs Ireland - ODI
Kob looked like he was on for a big one but got done for there.
Next bloke walks on and hits it straight for four.
These Irish boys are strutting, they sense this reduced chase with wickets in hand has given them the match, you can feel it.
eng should have done better with the bat, simple as that.
Next bloke walks on and hits it straight for four.
These Irish boys are strutting, they sense this reduced chase with wickets in hand has given them the match, you can feel it.
eng should have done better with the bat, simple as that.
trebellbobaggins- Posts : 4943
Join date : 2011-06-03
Re: England vs Ireland - ODI
Dernbache has been battered again.
i do feel that when you get a silly low chase like this then wickets should also be reduced, this is just too easy for them as it's just slog slog slog.
Reminds me of the T20 world cup win for the Windies where they had the same.
i do feel that when you get a silly low chase like this then wickets should also be reduced, this is just too easy for them as it's just slog slog slog.
Reminds me of the T20 world cup win for the Windies where they had the same.
trebellbobaggins- Posts : 4943
Join date : 2011-06-03
Re: England vs Ireland - ODI
Tough win that.
Ireland had every chance with a barrel of wickets in hand and a nice little t20 bash to win.
I loved the wicket that the Irish crowd loudly cheered!! (they thought it was a 6).
I think Billy needs to educate them a bit lol.
Actually a good win for a very experimental Eng side, losing the toss but just having a bunch of second choice bowlers that were just too good.
That was a "win the toss, win the match" day again so to them.
Ireland had every chance with a barrel of wickets in hand and a nice little t20 bash to win.
I loved the wicket that the Irish crowd loudly cheered!! (they thought it was a 6).
I think Billy needs to educate them a bit lol.
Actually a good win for a very experimental Eng side, losing the toss but just having a bunch of second choice bowlers that were just too good.
That was a "win the toss, win the match" day again so to them.
trebellbobaggins- Posts : 4943
Join date : 2011-06-03
Re: England vs Ireland - ODI
I think if a game is reduced and Duckworth-Lewis comes into play, you play however many overs you can and then extrapolate your score to a 50 over total (using Duckworth-Lewis).
So, if one team sets 250 in 50 overs and it starts raining to set up a 20-over chase, you bat the full 20 overs and then look at what the Duckworth-Lewis par score is chasing 250, taking into account the number of wickets lost.
Obviously, chasing 250 in 50 overs, 80-0 is better than 150-9 after 20 overs, and as ODIs should test you over 50 overs, I think the score more likely to win you a 50 over game should win you a rain effected game. However, in the situation above, the 150-9 would have smashed the Duckworth-Lewis target and the 80-0 would have almost definitely fallen short.
So, if one team sets 250 in 50 overs and it starts raining to set up a 20-over chase, you bat the full 20 overs and then look at what the Duckworth-Lewis par score is chasing 250, taking into account the number of wickets lost.
Obviously, chasing 250 in 50 overs, 80-0 is better than 150-9 after 20 overs, and as ODIs should test you over 50 overs, I think the score more likely to win you a 50 over game should win you a rain effected game. However, in the situation above, the 150-9 would have smashed the Duckworth-Lewis target and the 80-0 would have almost definitely fallen short.
Re: England vs Ireland - ODI
yeah that's fair robbo.
trebellbobaggins- Posts : 4943
Join date : 2011-06-03
Re: England vs Ireland - ODI
India looking formidable against Sussex. Singh found his form or Sussex just not anywhere near as good as Eng with the bat?
trebellbobaggins- Posts : 4943
Join date : 2011-06-03
Re: England vs Ireland - ODI
You have to laugh at those thinking it was going to be easy for Ireland. You have to admire the spirit and optimism to the last though.
Seems like Trott made all the difference today. I wouldn't be surprised if his instructions were to just occupy the crease, which he did rather effectively. A strategy that would have backfired against a stronger side.
Seems like Trott made all the difference today. I wouldn't be surprised if his instructions were to just occupy the crease, which he did rather effectively. A strategy that would have backfired against a stronger side.
teassoc- Posts : 510
Join date : 2011-02-01
Re: England vs Ireland - ODI
looks like trott's innings was pivotal to us winning
but you have to ask the question... are ireland playing enough odi's against test nations, and i dont think they are
but you have to ask the question... are ireland playing enough odi's against test nations, and i dont think they are
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Re: England vs Ireland - ODI
When they start regulalry beating Zimbabwe and Bangladesh then they will start getting more games against teh significant players
Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler- Posts : 10344
Join date : 2011-06-02
Location : Englandshire
Re: England vs Ireland - ODI
yh but there could be mini tri-series played between ireland, zim and a test nation something like that
just an idea.
just an idea.
Guest- Guest
Re: England vs Ireland - ODI
Pedant in me wants to point out that Zimbabwe are a test playing nation, as are Bangladesh.
And recently better ones than India
But I get your point, youd like to see major sides other than England play them once in a while outside of the world cup.
They have had two against Paksitan, one against Sri Lanka and one against England since the world cup. Thats a big step up from 2010, they are getting more games against the big sides....it just doesnt make them a good side overnight.
And recently better ones than India
But I get your point, youd like to see major sides other than England play them once in a while outside of the world cup.
They have had two against Paksitan, one against Sri Lanka and one against England since the world cup. Thats a big step up from 2010, they are getting more games against the big sides....it just doesnt make them a good side overnight.
Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler- Posts : 10344
Join date : 2011-06-02
Location : Englandshire
Re: England vs Ireland - ODI
i wasnt impressed with dockrell yesterday, i thought he would have performed better than he did, it says something that a part timer stirling bowled out and dockrell only bowled 4 overs for 24
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