Are Wales currently better than England?
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nottins
Luckless Pedestrian
nganboy
Hound_of_Harrow
Shifty
mcrjfNo7
Turkster
Mr BDO The true darts.
Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler
HammerofThunor
bathmad
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Comfort
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formerly known as Sam
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The v2 Forum :: Sport :: Rugby Union :: International
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Who out of the two nations is currently the best at rugby?
Are Wales currently better than England?
First topic message reminder :
If Nottins was a cat then this article would be the catnip,
Based on the warm up matches, would you say Wales are currently better than England or are England currently better than Wales?
TWICKENHAM:
England 23 - 19 Wales
England - 2 Tries
Wales - 3 Tries
CARDIFF:
Wales 19 - 9 England
Wales - 1 Try
England - 0 Tries
AGGREGATE:
Wales 38 - 32 England
Wales 4 Tries - England 2 Tries
If Nottins was a cat then this article would be the catnip,
Based on the warm up matches, would you say Wales are currently better than England or are England currently better than Wales?
TWICKENHAM:
England 23 - 19 Wales
England - 2 Tries
Wales - 3 Tries
CARDIFF:
Wales 19 - 9 England
Wales - 1 Try
England - 0 Tries
AGGREGATE:
Wales 38 - 32 England
Wales 4 Tries - England 2 Tries
krusty- Posts : 129
Join date : 2011-08-14
Re: Are Wales currently better than England?
Right now two humpbacks would be a better and more mobile center pairing for England, so yes whales are better than England.
If the question is " were Wales better in the last game" then yes. If the question is w"were Wales better in the previous 2 games this year" then clearly no. If we then ask "have Wales suddenly become a really good side overnight" then the answer is of course no. If you were to ask "have England been playing well below themselves in the last few games" the answerr is a clear yes.
So how come they keep losing to pretty everyone except England then? They even did their level best to let Italy beat them this year.
If the question is " were Wales better in the last game" then yes. If the question is w"were Wales better in the previous 2 games this year" then clearly no. If we then ask "have Wales suddenly become a really good side overnight" then the answer is of course no. If you were to ask "have England been playing well below themselves in the last few games" the answerr is a clear yes.
HammerofThunor wrote:Ireland have the "just as long as we beat every side other than France and New Zealand" disease
So how come they keep losing to pretty everyone except England then? They even did their level best to let Italy beat them this year.
Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler- Posts : 10344
Join date : 2011-06-02
Location : Englandshire
Re: Are Wales currently better than England?
Offload, as have I! although, we seem a lot better prepared for this World Cup than the last.
Seabisucit! I asuggested with the squad hes taken putting tindall at 12/tuilagi 13. Johnsons probably not going to drop tindall. Maybe they could work as a left/right centre combo. There needs to be some penetration from one of the centers if England are to persist with their boshers.
I think 60/40 to England if a fair split at the moment as I said earlier. England expected to win, not a surprise if Wales do.
Seabisucit! I asuggested with the squad hes taken putting tindall at 12/tuilagi 13. Johnsons probably not going to drop tindall. Maybe they could work as a left/right centre combo. There needs to be some penetration from one of the centers if England are to persist with their boshers.
I think 60/40 to England if a fair split at the moment as I said earlier. England expected to win, not a surprise if Wales do.
Comfort- Posts : 2072
Join date : 2011-08-13
Location : Cardiff
Re: Are Wales currently better than England?
ENGLAND IS BETTER THAN WALES!
There, i said it.
There, i said it.
Biltong- Moderator
- Posts : 26945
Join date : 2011-04-27
Location : Twilight zone
Re: Are Wales currently better than England?
England should be far better than Wales our population is far smaller.
Considering how small the population of Wales is we are punching way above our weight.
We are ranked 6th in the world and there is no reason why we cant climb a bit higher thats brilliant for such a small nation.
Considering how small the population of Wales is we are punching way above our weight.
We are ranked 6th in the world and there is no reason why we cant climb a bit higher thats brilliant for such a small nation.
Cymroglan- Posts : 4171
Join date : 2011-05-04
Re: Are Wales currently better than England?
I can think of at least five reasons why Wales wont climb higher up the world rankings.
Great White- Posts : 346
Join date : 2011-02-10
Location : Salisbury
Re: Are Wales currently better than England?
Well done it's good to keep the mind activeGreat White wrote:I can think of at least five reasons why Wales wont climb higher up the world rankings.
Cymroglan- Posts : 4171
Join date : 2011-05-04
Re: Are Wales currently better than England?
Its a pity then, that you havent taken your own advice ...
Great White- Posts : 346
Join date : 2011-02-10
Location : Salisbury
Re: Are Wales currently better than England?
Great White wrote:Its a pity then, that you havent taken your own advice ...
I complimented you no need to be bashful, I think you are a extremely knowledgeable poster that adds a lot to threads.
Cymroglan- Posts : 4171
Join date : 2011-05-04
Re: Are Wales currently better than England?
And I you, so the feeling is mutual.
Great White- Posts : 346
Join date : 2011-02-10
Location : Salisbury
Re: Are Wales currently better than England?
Cymroglan wrote:England should be far better than Wales our population is far smaller.
Considering how small the population of Wales is we are punching way above our weight.
We are ranked 6th in the world and there is no reason why we cant climb a bit higher thats brilliant for such a small nation.
Not that old chestnut again
Wake me up when you've moved on. zzz
BATH_BTGOG- Posts : 875
Join date : 2011-01-27
Location : Somerset
Re: Are Wales currently better than England?
BATH_BTGOG wrote:Cymroglan wrote:England should be far better than Wales our population is far smaller.
Considering how small the population of Wales is we are punching way above our weight.
We are ranked 6th in the world and there is no reason why we cant climb a bit higher thats brilliant for such a small nation.
Not that old chestnut again
Wake me up when you've moved on. zzz
Well precisely.
Great White- Posts : 346
Join date : 2011-02-10
Location : Salisbury
Re: Are Wales currently better than England?
lets just get this nonsense out of the way so we can debate the really important battle between these 2 nations.
Who has the nicest alternative strip for the World Cup?
Who has the nicest alternative strip for the World Cup?
Comfort- Posts : 2072
Join date : 2011-08-13
Location : Cardiff
Re: Are Wales currently better than England?
Englands kit won't date as quickly as the welsh one!
BATH_BTGOG- Posts : 875
Join date : 2011-01-27
Location : Somerset
Re: Are Wales currently better than England?
Hersh oops I mean BATH_BTGOG you don't believe population size has any relevance ?
Cymroglan- Posts : 4171
Join date : 2011-05-04
Re: Are Wales currently better than England?
Hersh!!!
not me i don't think hersh moved to 606v2
not me i don't think hersh moved to 606v2
BATH_BTGOG- Posts : 875
Join date : 2011-01-27
Location : Somerset
Re: Are Wales currently better than England?
Cymroglan wrote:Hersh oops I mean BATH_BTGOG you don't believe population size has any relevance ?
Cymro, I understand where you're coming from, but our population is similar to New Zealands so i dont think it washes down that well.
If anything, England should be absolutely disgusted that a small nation such as New Zealand has such an astonishing record against them in their own game.
Comfort- Posts : 2072
Join date : 2011-08-13
Location : Cardiff
Re: Are Wales currently better than England?
But guys most kids in state secondry schools have never even seen a rugby union ball.
so yes England is bigger but apart from the posh schools not many play rugby union for one reason or the other, things will change in Wales if Swansea/cardiff can stay/get to the premiership.
so yes England is bigger but apart from the posh schools not many play rugby union for one reason or the other, things will change in Wales if Swansea/cardiff can stay/get to the premiership.
BATH_BTGOG- Posts : 875
Join date : 2011-01-27
Location : Somerset
Re: Are Wales currently better than England?
Comfort wrote...Cymro, I understand where you're coming from, but our population is similar to New Zealands so i dont think it washes down that well.
If anything, England should be absolutely disgusted that a small nation such as New Zealand has such an astonishing record against them in their own game.
The difference is they search far and wide we have only recently realised that a third of our population exists.
Cymroglan- Posts : 4171
Join date : 2011-05-04
Re: Are Wales currently better than England?
Cymroglan, you mean, theres more than just endless hills north of the Rhondda?
Comfort- Posts : 2072
Join date : 2011-08-13
Location : Cardiff
Re: Are Wales currently better than England?
Cymroglan wrote:Comfort wrote...Cymro, I understand where you're coming from, but our population is similar to New Zealands so i dont think it washes down that well.
If anything, England should be absolutely disgusted that a small nation such as New Zealand has such an astonishing record against them in their own game.
Make sure they check their grandparents really exist too
The difference is they search far and wide we have only recently realised that a third of our population exists.
Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler- Posts : 10344
Join date : 2011-06-02
Location : Englandshire
Mr BDO The true darts.- Posts : 127
Join date : 2011-08-20
Age : 66
Location : BDO/WDF
Re: Are Wales currently better than England?
Yet, we are led to believe it's your national sport (despite the fact that no-one goes to support your super-clubs and North Wales is pretty much a rugby-free zone) so why aren't you up there with NZ?Cymroglan wrote:England should be far better than Wales our population is far smaller.
Considering how small the population of Wales is we are punching way above our weight.
We are ranked 6th in the world and there is no reason why we cant climb a bit higher thats brilliant for such a small nation.
Using population size for this argument is a very, very simplistic way of looking at it.
Guest- Guest
Re: Are Wales currently better than England?
Stats - 5 wins each since 2005
Defence - Wales
Strength in Depth - England
Setpiece - England
Fitness - Wales
Shirt - Wales
Backs - Wales
Anthem - Wales
Discipline - England
Capt- Wales
Injuries - England
Momentum - Wales
Confidence - Wales
RWC experience - England
Golf - Wales
Defence - Wales
Strength in Depth - England
Setpiece - England
Fitness - Wales
Shirt - Wales
Backs - Wales
Anthem - Wales
Discipline - England
Capt- Wales
Injuries - England
Momentum - Wales
Confidence - Wales
RWC experience - England
Golf - Wales
Gatts- Posts : 2212
Join date : 2011-08-18
Re: Are Wales currently better than England?
Gatts
I do agree with you the Welsh antem is a lot better than ther English one.
I do agree with you the Welsh antem is a lot better than ther English one.
majesticimperialman- Posts : 6170
Join date : 2011-02-11
Re: Are Wales currently better than England?
SafeAsMilk wrote:Yet, we are led to believe it's your national sport (despite the fact that no-one goes to support your super-clubs and North Wales is pretty much a rugby-free zone) so why aren't you up there with NZ?Cymroglan wrote:England should be far better than Wales our population is far smaller.
Considering how small the population of Wales is we are punching way above our weight.
We are ranked 6th in the world and there is no reason why we cant climb a bit higher thats brilliant for such a small nation.
Using population size for this argument is a very, very simplistic way of looking at it.
And to think the guy accused me of bringing nothing to a debate. You've got to laugh.
Great White- Posts : 346
Join date : 2011-02-10
Location : Salisbury
Re: Are Wales currently better than England?
"Golf - Wales"
Lee Westwood and Luke Donald (current and previous world number 1's) are both English.
Lee Westwood and Luke Donald (current and previous world number 1's) are both English.
Guest- Guest
Re: Are Wales currently better than England?
I think he meant 'golf buggy'.
Great White- Posts : 346
Join date : 2011-02-10
Location : Salisbury
Re: Are Wales currently better than England?
In that case, it's Wales.Great White wrote:I think he meant 'golf buggy'.
Guest- Guest
Re: Are Wales currently better than England?
Gatts wrote:Stats - 5 wins each since 2005
Defence - Wales
Strength in Depth - England
Setpiece - England
Fitness - Wales
Shirt - Wales
Backs - Wales
Anthem - Wales
Discipline - England
Capt- Wales
Injuries - England
Momentum - Wales
Confidence - Wales
RWC experience - England
Golf - Wales
Having a better, bigger, more successful rugby Union (at all levels) : England
Endlessly bleating and blaming sky coverage for this : Wales
To be fair for the ize of the population you guys do make a better job of filling the internet with pointless tripe than the English do, not to mention buying a hell of a lot of Liverpool FC t shirts.
Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler- Posts : 10344
Join date : 2011-06-02
Location : Englandshire
Re: Are Wales currently better than England?
Having a national rugby stadium with a pitch you're not ashamed of: England
Great White- Posts : 346
Join date : 2011-02-10
Location : Salisbury
Re: Are Wales currently better than England?
awww bless, the Saes are getting uppity.
Turkster- Posts : 529
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Burry Port
Re: Are Wales currently better than England?
"England should be far better than Wales our population is far smaller."
So why do China and India not dominate all sports? This population rubbish has been doing the rounds for years and has no more relevance now than in the past. It is based on the (very wrong) assumption that it is the genetic variety (there is joke about Wales and genetic variety in there somewhere) within a population that ensures good players and then a good team. If it was simply a game of physicality with no training/coaching then yes the genetically predisposed stronger/faster people will win - this is never the case in sport and definitely not the case in a professional sport. Training, coaching, exposure to high levels of competition and support are the most important things when it comes to succeeding at sport; when players receive this maximum level of training then yes being bigger/stronger/faster will play its important part but without the training it is nothing. In England the basic coaching level at most amateur clubs is poor, the support system for players is poor and retention of players and then the identification of talent and its subsequent nursing are very poor. A smaller population is often conducive to a better system as players can be more easily identified, the general level of coaching can be increased more easily and less players "slip through the cracks". Some large countries have very good systems, for certain sports, and they therefore maximise their player resources (i.e. the USA).
The Rugby system in England is still very poor. Many on here will know firsthand how much of a dead end it is for most players at amateur clubs; (i.e. the good young players are going nowhere as they will not be identified and the level of coaching is poor - This is not a dig at the coaches as they are often adults giving up their free time to ensure the kids have at least some form of rugby coaching). The player numbers have little bearing when the quality of those players is not where it needs to be to compete on an international level. I have yet to find a better Rugby Union system than the one in NZ – it is exceptional and they maximise their potential. If all countries had the same qualities in terms of coaching etc then yes England should be way above smaller countries but this is simply not the case.
Please can we refrain from using this useless phrase of bigger population when discussing a game that is based on the quality of 22 men not a country’s population.
Ranting makes me happy.
So why do China and India not dominate all sports? This population rubbish has been doing the rounds for years and has no more relevance now than in the past. It is based on the (very wrong) assumption that it is the genetic variety (there is joke about Wales and genetic variety in there somewhere) within a population that ensures good players and then a good team. If it was simply a game of physicality with no training/coaching then yes the genetically predisposed stronger/faster people will win - this is never the case in sport and definitely not the case in a professional sport. Training, coaching, exposure to high levels of competition and support are the most important things when it comes to succeeding at sport; when players receive this maximum level of training then yes being bigger/stronger/faster will play its important part but without the training it is nothing. In England the basic coaching level at most amateur clubs is poor, the support system for players is poor and retention of players and then the identification of talent and its subsequent nursing are very poor. A smaller population is often conducive to a better system as players can be more easily identified, the general level of coaching can be increased more easily and less players "slip through the cracks". Some large countries have very good systems, for certain sports, and they therefore maximise their player resources (i.e. the USA).
The Rugby system in England is still very poor. Many on here will know firsthand how much of a dead end it is for most players at amateur clubs; (i.e. the good young players are going nowhere as they will not be identified and the level of coaching is poor - This is not a dig at the coaches as they are often adults giving up their free time to ensure the kids have at least some form of rugby coaching). The player numbers have little bearing when the quality of those players is not where it needs to be to compete on an international level. I have yet to find a better Rugby Union system than the one in NZ – it is exceptional and they maximise their potential. If all countries had the same qualities in terms of coaching etc then yes England should be way above smaller countries but this is simply not the case.
Please can we refrain from using this useless phrase of bigger population when discussing a game that is based on the quality of 22 men not a country’s population.
Ranting makes me happy.
mcrjfNo7- Posts : 35
Join date : 2011-06-07
Location : Tristan da Cunha
Re: Are Wales currently better than England?
So, what you're saying is that because Wales has a smaller population, actually, all things considered, then they ought to be better than they are, but aren't, so they're rubbish. Got ya
Great White- Posts : 346
Join date : 2011-02-10
Location : Salisbury
Re: Are Wales currently better than England?
jesus some people on here are getting so wound up, wales have a much smaller pool of players to select from due partly to population size and poor representation across the country (north has pretty much no representation, espicially regions wise)
but wales for its small pool of players to select from do play very well and secondly does this matter, england beat wales once this summer and vice versa. thats all we can compare, no point saying in 2011 6n, 2008 gs, 2005 gs, 2003 wc etc, all that matters is the last games played as that gives the best representation (and you cant blame injuries as it is unlikely you will always get your 1st squad)
but wales for its small pool of players to select from do play very well and secondly does this matter, england beat wales once this summer and vice versa. thats all we can compare, no point saying in 2011 6n, 2008 gs, 2005 gs, 2003 wc etc, all that matters is the last games played as that gives the best representation (and you cant blame injuries as it is unlikely you will always get your 1st squad)
welshy824- Posts : 719
Join date : 2011-06-06
Re: Are Wales currently better than England?
Can anyone remember when either team was able to select a 1st XV not affected by injury to 1st choice players?
Great White- Posts : 346
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Re: Are Wales currently better than England?
But injuries are part of the game, when was the last time anyteam put out their 1st choice team?
BATH_BTGOG- Posts : 875
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Re: Are Wales currently better than England?
welshy824 wrote: all that matters is the last games played as that gives the best representation (and you cant blame injuries as it is unlikely you will always get your 1st squad)
Youre right, Wales are nowhere near as good as the Pisland sides.
Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler- Posts : 10344
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Re: Are Wales currently better than England?
I would say which ever side is the home side would be the winner, the teams are about 55% to England and 45% to Wales.
Shifty- Posts : 7393
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Re: Are Wales currently better than England?
Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:welshy824 wrote: all that matters is the last games played as that gives the best representation (and you cant blame injuries as it is unlikely you will always get your 1st squad)
Youre right, Wales are nowhere near as good as the Pisland sides.
what has that got to do with wales' last match?
welshy824- Posts : 719
Join date : 2011-06-06
Re: Are Wales currently better than England?
krusty, you kind of give the game away with the use of the word 'currently'. Obviously Wales won the last game between the two teams. Would you be inclined to ask the same question with regard to France, Australia, SA or NZ?
The IRB rankings kind of give an answer with the Tri-Nations going on plus other RWC warm up games; they are a reasonable guide at the moment.
I can't be @rsed to check who is ranked where atm, but anyone of the top half dozen or so should be fancying themselves at home against any of the other teams.
The IRB rankings kind of give an answer with the Tri-Nations going on plus other RWC warm up games; they are a reasonable guide at the moment.
I can't be @rsed to check who is ranked where atm, but anyone of the top half dozen or so should be fancying themselves at home against any of the other teams.
Hound_of_Harrow- Posts : 3150
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Re: Are Wales currently better than England?
Why would Ireland fancy themselves against NZ in Ireland?
nganboy- Posts : 1868
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Re: Are Wales currently better than England?
nganboy wrote:Why would Ireland fancy themselves against NZ in Ireland?
If they didn't fancy their chances, what would be the point of playing?
Luckless Pedestrian- Posts : 24898
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Re: Are Wales currently better than England?
For the money, for the sponsors, to be able to exist as a team?
Great White- Posts : 346
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Re: Are Wales currently better than England?
There you go Krusty, the people have voted.
nottins- Posts : 1413
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Re: Are Wales currently better than England?
I dont know why theres even a debate, you only have to listen to the Sky analysis team to know England are the best.
Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler- Posts : 10344
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Location : Englandshire
Re: Are Wales currently better than England?
As a neutral I would say that on average Wales had the best of the recent 160 minutes these two teams had.
Or to put it another way, I would be happier to be Gatland than Johnson. If you're Gatland, you both know why you lost the first game and won the second.
If you're Johnson, then you've probably got no idea why in the second your pack dialled in their performance and your midfield looked slower than the proverbial snail with heavy shopping.
Inconsistency is a real danger for England, because whilst they may be confident of beating Scotland and Argentina when on form, if England have a collective brainfart of the type they managed to achieve in the second Welsh test then it is not outwith the realms of possibility to lose to both of those teams.
Or to put it another way, I would be happier to be Gatland than Johnson. If you're Gatland, you both know why you lost the first game and won the second.
If you're Johnson, then you've probably got no idea why in the second your pack dialled in their performance and your midfield looked slower than the proverbial snail with heavy shopping.
Inconsistency is a real danger for England, because whilst they may be confident of beating Scotland and Argentina when on form, if England have a collective brainfart of the type they managed to achieve in the second Welsh test then it is not outwith the realms of possibility to lose to both of those teams.
George Carlin- Admin
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Re: Are Wales currently better than England?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_union/welsh/14680895.stm
quite clearly they are
quite clearly they are
Gatts- Posts : 2212
Join date : 2011-08-18
Re: Are Wales currently better than England?
Not when you are picking Kiwis,Samoans and Saffers.The world is your oyster!Cymroglan wrote:Hersh oops I mean BATH_BTGOG you don't believe population size has any relevance ?
Taffineastbourne- Posts : 2043
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Location : Somewhere in Eastbourne
Re: Are Wales currently better than England?
North Wales is full of Scousers on the run from Merseyside police,allegedly.The population figures are consequently somewhat distorted.Only joking!There are no crims in Liverpool,this is a cliched stereotype that I did not witness when I worked there,honest!SafeAsMilk wrote:Yet, we are led to believe it's your national sport (despite the fact that no-one goes to support your super-clubs and North Wales is pretty much a rugby-free zone) so why aren't you up there with NZ?Cymroglan wrote:England should be far better than Wales our population is far smaller.
Considering how small the population of Wales is we are punching way above our weight.
We are ranked 6th in the world and there is no reason why we cant climb a bit higher thats brilliant for such a small nation.
Using population size for this argument is a very, very simplistic way of looking at it.
Taffineastbourne- Posts : 2043
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