England XV vs Wales

Injuries have struck England hard in the past couple of weeks. Foden, Rokoduguni, Tuilagi, Eastmond, Farrell, Morgan, Wood, Parling, Launchberry, Lawes, Slater and Cole all look set to miss out England's first match with Wales through injury. Ford our current first choice fly half suffered a mild concussion against Glasgow whilst his kicking was inconsistent too, something which has been affecting his game the last few matches.

Following these injuries this would be my XV and subs to take on Wales.

1. J.Marler
2. D.Hartley
3. D.Wilson
4. G.Kruis
5. D.Attwood
6. J.Haskell
7. C.Robshaw
8. B.Vunipola

The front row would remain unchanged after going so well in the Autumn internationals. Kruis will come in for the injured Lawes, although I think England would have opted for Parling had he been fit. In the back row Haskell will come in for the injured Wood, however, I think on form Haskell would have been pushing very close for a starting spot anyway. Vunipola is offered another chance with Morgan out injured.

09. B.Youngs
10. D.Cipriani
11. J.May
12. B.Barritt
13. L.Burrell
14. A.Watson
15. M.Brown

At half back Youngs has been in good form for Leicester this season and has emerged as a leader too. Cipriani would get the nod over Ford on form, he has a huge chance with Farrell out injured and I think he might just take it. In the centres Barritt will be selected on merit in his more comfortable role of inside centre, I feel his defensive leadership will be integral against Wales. Burrell has also had a strong season and deserves his chance. Our back three although a little lightweight has bags of pace and enthusiasm and will be looking to kick on from the Autumn.

16. T.Youngs
17. A.Corbisiero
18. K.Brookes
19. G.Kitchener
20. C.Clark
21. D.Care
22. G.Ford
23. J.Joseph

What a bench! Youngs and Corbisiero are both Lions whilst Brookes impressed when he came on in the Autumn. Kitchener is in the form of his life at the moment too, so will relish this opportunity. It was a tough call between Easter and Clark, but I'd go with the latter who has been in top form for Northampton and it's time to see if he can sink or swim at international level. Care, Ford and Joseph provide a lethal attacking threat and will look to inject something different when they come on. Joseph is very unlucky to miss out on a starting spot, he has been electric all season and put in another impressive showing yesterday against Glasgow.

What would be your XV?

I assume it's "B Vunipola" at 8 rather than his bro?

I would start with Ford rather than Cips, but otherwise I'm in agreement. I would have included Wade but that ship has sailed.

Given the injuries, that's a pretty strong squad.

Massive game -  I think Wales are dark horses actually. Roberts and JD2 are going well in France, Ospreys are going well in the Pro12 and they finished the AIs by getting the SH monkey off the back against the boks.

If they win here they could be hard to stop..... so hopefully England will do us all a favour ...

I think injuries have tipped the contest in Wales' favour, but this won't be a repeat of the last game at the Millenium. This will be mighty close.

rodders wrote:Massive game -  I think Wales are dark horses actually. Roberts and JD2 are going well in France, Ospreys are going well in the Pro12 and they finished the AIs by getting the SH monkey off the back against the boks.

If they win here they could be hard to stop..... so hopefully England will do us all a favour ...

Thats the only place then, they were well beaten at home by Saints and lost to Treviso at the weekend although I suspect they rested a few players.

I think it will depend on how cohesive our backs can be, if they works as a unit in both attacke and defence, I think we will triumph, otherwise ....................

Id be looking to bring Garvey in myself.

Cipriani's form has been really patchy the last few months. Last good performance was mid december against Chiefs, with a decent one against Saints. He was rested at the weekend, was poor off the bench against Wasps in a thumping and not very good against Clermont and Leicester.

I feel Joseph has to play, and the man-shaming Burrell got from roberts at the weekend means Barritt will play. Finally I think Kitch is much better than Kruis and feel we need Clarks breakdown expertise.


So I would have:

Marler, Hartley, Wilson, Attwood, Kitchener, Robshaw, Clark, Vunipola
Youngs, Ford, May, Barritt, Joseph, Watson, Brown

rodders wrote:Massive game -  I think Wales are dark horses actually. Roberts and JD2 are going well in France,

Since when? Roberts regularly slated by French press, and looks ordinary in T14 (was sublime this weekend I admit) and JD2 rarely selected for Clermont.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Id be looking to bring Garvey in myself.

We know.

I will admit he was quite good this weekend. First decent performance I have ever seen from him

you obviously haven't seen much of him then...

Think it will be

Corbisiero
Hartley
Wilson
Attwood
Kruis
Wood
Robshaw
Vunipola
Youngs
Ford
May
Barritt
Joseph
Watson
Brown

Bench

Marler, Youngs, Cole (Brookes if he's injured), Kitchner, Clark, Care, Cipriani, Burrell

LondonTiger wrote:

rodders wrote:Massive game -  I think Wales are dark horses actually. Roberts and JD2 are going well in France,

Since when? Roberts regularly slated by French press, and looks ordinary in T14 (was sublime this weekend I admit) and JD2 rarely selected for Clermont.

Since yesterday. .

Roberts was excellent against Northampton, and seemed to be involved in everything. First strong performance I've seen of him this season however, and Scott Williams must be pushing pretty hard on both Roberts and JD2.

LondonTiger wrote:Cipriani's form has been really patchy the last few months. Last good performance was mid december against Chiefs, with a decent one against Saints. He was rested at the weekend, was poor off the bench against Wasps in a thumping and not very good against Clermont and Leicester.

I feel Joseph has to play, and the man-shaming Burrell got from roberts at the weekend means Barritt will play. Finally I think Kitch is much better than Kruis and feel we need Clarks breakdown expertise.


So I would have:

Marler, Hartley, Wilson, Attwood, Kitchener, Robshaw, Clark, Vunipola
Youngs, Ford, May, Barritt, Joseph, Watson, Brown

Exactly the team I would pick.

Bench more tricky but would be
Corbs
Youngs
Cole (ideal way to ease him back, Brookes if injured)
Kruis
Haskell (always plays better off the bench for England)
Care (but would love to have Simpson if he comes on a plays a blinder for the Saxons)
it will be Myler or Cipriani I guess but but neither covers centre well, would prefer Slade to cover 10-13
Nowell

JD2 was a bit of a passenger yesterday but most backs didnt do much appart from defending though. he did butcher a good counter attacking chance in the 1st half though.

Can't say I can see the logic of selecting Cirpiani over Ford Robshaw4. GF has been putting in MOTM performances regularly and whilst he missed 2 kicks against Glasgow, his percentage is still in the mid-80's. I can't say Danny's place kicking form would be any more reassuring than GF's. Ford is also a much better tactical kicker from hand, something that Danny struggles with at times.

On form Kitchener has to start with Parling out. A pack of:

1. J Marler
2. D Hartley
3. D Wilson
4. D Attwood
5. G Kitchener
6. J Haskell
7. C Robshaw (c)
8. B Vunipola

That would be my call. I personally, wouldn't want to risk Cole until he's played a bit more for Tigers. He's had a negligible amount of rugby in the past 12 months. I'd have a bench of: 16. T Youngs 17. A Corbisiero 18. K Brookes 19. G Kruis 20. C Clark - i'd probably rather Kvesic or Ewers took the bench spot but Clark is in good form. Not enough impact from the bench for me though.

Backs-wise I think Joseph has backed up his early season form and put in an excellent display against Glasgow in attack and defence. My backline would be:

9. B Youngs
10. G Ford
11. J May
12. B Barritt
13. J Joseph
14. A Watson
15. M Brown

Barritt has played well since coming back from injury. I have a residual concern that he will adversely affect Joseph's game and it's not a hugely coherent mid-field. 36 isn't in enough form though, Burrell has been good going forward but too weak defensively so far. Eastmond is injured.

Backs bench: 21. R Wigglesworth 22. S Myler 23. M Yarde - Care only doesn't make it because I think we'll need to be pretty pragmatic and territory orientated to win this game and Wiggs is the best kicker by a stretch.

LondonTiger wrote:

rodders wrote:Massive game -  I think Wales are dark horses actually. Roberts and JD2 are going well in France,

Since when? Roberts regularly slated by French press, and looks ordinary in T14 (was sublime this weekend I admit) and JD2 rarely selected for Clermont.

Roberts has had a good if not spectacular season but agree about JD and he was very quiet this weekend, though showed up well in defence. I would love Gatland to go for Roberts and Sc Williams but Willimas is nursing an injury and think we will see the old formula rolled out.

JD made one great looking break that on closer inspection was a bit of a hole in the defence really. I've never quite worked out how good I think he is. He's not quite got the power of a Roberts/Tuilagi, pace of a Joseph or hands of an O'Driscoll, but seems somewhere between all of those, and his form can come and go a bit. Nevertheless he seems to have the knack of beating defenders quite frequently.

Roberts game highlights for those who missed it :

https://youtu.be/oM33xoFxPQU

Do England have 15 uninjured players to face Wales?

Gwlad wrote:Do England have 15 uninjured players to face Wales?

We have plenty, and pretty much all are of a good standard. We may be short of a couple of game breakers though

In the NH I think its only England (France possibly) who could have their injury list as it is and still field a very strong side.

Ireland have good depth as well

Farrell has been officially ruled out of the match

Barritt out for a month

Just got the call from Stewie, I'll be playing at IC - which is a surprise given I played all my rugby at hooker. Still, I'm sure we'll do very well.

OK so we are finally getting to the bottom of the barrel. Might be a lot to play for in the Saxons game now.

Actually considering all the injuries we are not that bad off....because we did not have anything settled or decent in the midfield to start with! We can field Slade/36 with JJ and that is not too bad. Burrell not ruled out yet either so stand by.

Suspect we'll see 12trees and Burrell starting in the centres (LB is under the concussion protocols, but seems likely to be OK by the end of this week). Joseph could potentially cover 13 and wing from the bench, with Cipriani covering 10 and 15 (played there plenty for Wasps back in the day)

With such strength in depth that you can field the likes of 36 and Cipriani there is no danger of this game being devalued. Great news.

Christ it's getting worse! I don't know about Burrell coming in. Lancs does like to see them in training, although granted he's played there before. He didn't feature in the AIs when he was fit towards the end. I think it could well be 12. B Twelvetrees 13. J Joseph - which I actually think could be good for England. That's IF 36 gets a handle on his error count.

Chjw131 wrote:Christ it's getting worse! I don't know about Burrell coming in. Lancs does like to see them in training, although granted he's played there before. He didn't feature in the AIs when he was fit towards the end. I think it could well be 12. B Twelvetrees 13. J Joseph - which I actually think could be good for England. That's IF 36 gets a handle on his error count.

Big if.

Englands pack will probably be as outlined above given the strong performances in the Autumn. My pick is likely to look like this given the injury list:

Corbisiero, Hartley, Wilson, Attwood, Kruis, Haskell, Robshaw, B. Vunipola, Care, Ford, May, 36, Joseph, Watson, Brown Rep: Marler, Cole, Youngs, Kitchener, Croft, Youngs,Cips & Goode

557 Caps between that bunch so not an inexperienced side either.

Problem is Wales are at home and have a full compliment in the backline as well. I don't doubt Englands talent when they go forward or in attack. The real key is will the England backline have enough experience at International level to play at the MS and subdue the Welsh when they have ball in hand? Care and Brown will seriously have to have great games to see some of the younger ones through this one. Englands pack will no doubt get them a good share of the ball. The key question will be what will they do with it?

Gatland wants to hope that the English front row doesn't hammer ours because otherwise the whole Jones fallout might get ugly….IMO England's best hope is to hammer the set piece and play for territory, kick some goals and keep it very very tight.

Marler will start over Corbs. May change by the end of the 6N but Marler is in possession.

Thing about keeping it tight/playing open is interesting. There are some seriously fast guys in the England team. Watson and May are quite capable of running from anywhere

here's how i see it

scrum - slight advantage england depending on who starts!
lineout - england v good. wales good. relevance depends on kicking strategy

9 care/youngs vs philips - philips is still ponderous but he loves playing against england
10 ford vs biggar - great matchup. no clear advantage
12 burrell/36/burgess vs Roberts - if roberts plays like he did against Saints, clear advantage Wales
13 joseph vs JD2 - silky vs bish-bosh. good battle, think joseph might create some space here.
11/14 may/watson vs 2 small welsh blokes - advantage 2 small welsh blokes
15 brown vs 1/2P - totally depends how Gatland uses 1/2P. if infield kicks are too long, advantage Brown. If gats is brave and uses 1/2P a lot in attack ball in hand, advantage 1/2P

overall quite nicely poised, in spite of England's monster injury list. the scrum is going to be absolutely critical to getting quality ball. especially if they close the roof and the ball is a bar of soap and there are lots of knock-ons.

Gwlad wrote:Gatland wants to hope that the English front row doesn't hammer ours because otherwise the whole Jones fallout might get ugly….IMO England's best hope is to hammer the set piece and play for territory, kick some goals and keep it very very tight.

So just like Warrenball then?

quinsforever wrote:here's how i see it

scrum - slight advantage england depending on who starts!
lineout - england v good. wales good. relevance depends on kicking strategy

9 care/youngs vs philips - philips is still ponderous but he loves playing against england
10 ford vs biggar - great matchup. no clear advantage
12 burrell/36/burgess vs Roberts - if roberts plays like he did against Saints, clear advantage Wales
13 joseph vs JD2 - silky vs bish-bosh. good battle, think joseph might create some space here.
11/14 may/watson vs 2 small welsh blokes - advantage 2 small welsh blokes
15 brown vs 1/2P - totally depends how Gatland uses 1/2P. if infield kicks are too long, advantage Brown. If gats is brave and uses 1/2P a lot in attack ball in hand, advantage 1/2P

overall quite nicely poised, in spite of England's monster injury list. the scrum is going to be absolutely critical to getting quality ball. especially if they close the roof and the ball is a bar of soap and there are lots of knock-ons.

You've forgotten the blwdy breakdown!

And surely Webb has to start over Phillips, he was pretty impressive in the Autumn

i thought maybe webb had a knock. am probably misremembering.

glad you asked about the breakdown...

if steffon armitage starts, clear advantage England
however with likely hask/robshaw/vuni vs warb/lydiate/faletau - pretty much even i reckon. depends on individual performances as the units look comparable to me.

I think that Emgland have parity with any nation in the front row when all there options are fit! Launchberry and Lawes are big HUGE losses and we will miss both players dynamism!

Ford was in possession of the shirt and I think he would've probably started whether Farrell was fit or not but it potentially opens the door for D.Cipraini to come back into the fold.

Huge call in the centres! Eastmond and Joseph are either scintillating or under powered depending on who's opinion you hold in higher regard!

Will be investing to see if Jack Nowell has played himself back onto the bench! Has played at 13 twice recently and scored try's and make a stupid about of tackles

My starters would be

1. Marler
2. Youngs
3. Wilson
4. Attwood
5. Kruis
6. Haskell
7. Robshaw
8. Vunipola

9. Youngs
10. Ford
11. May
12. Burrell
13. Joseph
14. Watson
15. Brown

16. Hartley
17. Corbisiero
18. Cole
19. Kitchener
20. Clark (Wood if fit)
21. Care
22. Cipriani
23. Nowell

I have this feeling that even without our 3 top locks & No.8 that this England scrum has the potential to be pretty destructive. Agree with what's been said above though - this game will be close. What odds for a draw???

So England start with Marler, Hartley and Wilson and can bring on Corbisiero, Youngs and Cole.

I can see England deliberately knocking on just to get a scrum!

Forget the centre battle - I think this one's all about the set piece.

Telegraph hinting that it could be Kitchener to partner Attwood in the engine room. Don't know what anyone else thinks but I think that is a potentially very good nuts and bolts second row combination. Both big lads who are good in the scrum and lineout. Attwood offers the grunt up close whilst Kitchener does like open spaces. Not quite Launchbury and Lawes for athletisism but it might work well.

Mr Bounce wrote:My starters would be

1. Marler
2. Youngs
3. Wilson
4. Attwood
5. Kruis
6. Haskell
7. Robshaw
8. Vunipola

9. Youngs
10. Ford
11. May
12. Burrell
13. Joseph
14. Watson
15. Brown

16. Hartley
17. Corbisiero
18. Cole
19. Kitchener
20. Clark (Wood if fit)
21. Care
22. Cipriani
23. Nowell

I have this feeling that even without our 3 top locks & No.8 that this England scrum has the potential to be pretty destructive. Agree with what's been said above though - this game will be close. What odds for a draw???

I don't know how this game will go but I do think we will sneak it but when you look at the teams (taking your team into account Bounce) then Wales have by far the more experienced side in terms of caps and the more settled side, though I know that doesn't always mean anything.

The likely Welsh side has 365 more caps (636 - 271) than England and the only area of the side where England have more caps is in the half backs (would change if Phillips started but hope not). Given home advantage as well you would think that would make us firm favourites but I don't think we are, slight maybe but not firm.

Is that down to our Regions poor form if so then its has been poor for years but the guys step up for Wales in the 6 Nations.

offload wrote:So England start with Marler, Hartley and Wilson and can bring on Corbisiero, Youngs and Cole.  

I can see England deliberately knocking on just to get a scrum!

Forget the centre battle - I think this one's all about the set piece.

remarkably incisive for a 98 year old, but this game is definitely about the set piece and with Lee having a dodgy neck I would say it will be won or lost in the front row. If Wales win at scrum time i think the game will be ours, assuming our line out functions.

Gwlad wrote:

offload wrote:So England start with Marler, Hartley and Wilson and can bring on Corbisiero, Youngs and Cole.  

I can see England deliberately knocking on just to get a scrum!

Forget the centre battle - I think this one's all about the set piece.

remarkably incisive for a 98 year old, but this game is definitely about the set piece and with Lee having a dodgy neck I would say it will be won or lost in the front row. If Wales win at scrum time i think the game will be ours, assuming our line out functions.

Less of the cheek young man

Lee is the big worry especially given a certain hair bears omission. If he doesn't start or last the majority of the game then we could be royally screwed.

bedfordwelsh wrote:Lee is the big worry especially given a certain hair bears omission.  If he doesn't start or last the majority of the game then we could be royally screwed.

Assuming PJ will cover both sides with an extra TH on the bench. But it's the one weakness England can exploit big time i think…..and who would you want to make an impact from the bench and solidify your TH if it was creaking?

Yeah you have to have a full front row on the bench so it could be Jenkins or James and then either Jarvis or Andrews. Unless he went with two L/Heads in Evans and James with James covering T/Head.

I'm actually pretty confident ahead of the Wales vs England game, the real worry I had was Ben Morgan and Tuilagi running at us and causing havoc, though even then Roberts has always dealt with Tuilagi fairly effectivly while Tuilagi has often struggled with Roberts. With both of those players out injured I'm a lot happier Wales can handle England.

I hope Sampson Lee is fit, though in this case it may be better Adam Jones has retired because Corbisiero seems to have some kind of tecnique that Adam struggles with. Certainly when I have seen those two head to head Corbisiero is the only player I have ever seen Adam Jones struggle with.

I just think Wales are too big, too strong, too street wise and with a passionate home crowd roaring them on should beat England. Wales just need to execute the basics correctly. This Wales team has been together since the last world cup and should be peaking now. England have chopped and changed and been all over the shop for several seasons, with many key areas of the team still up for debate on which player is better and what the balance should be in their team. Their are very few positions in the England team you can say a player has nailed down his spot and been consistent when selected.